tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post115330513598650432..comments2024-02-28T06:02:47.031-05:00Comments on The Lebanese Bloggers: Deja Vu All Over AgainRajahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02625042447499335907noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153434294130836342006-07-20T17:24:00.000-05:002006-07-20T17:24:00.000-05:00box - the Lebanon and Palestinian fronts are two s...box - the Lebanon and Palestinian fronts are two separate issues. Tempterment or not, Israel is not stupid, it is not by choice that we open a second front.<BR/><BR/>Like it or not, I contend, and most analysts agree, that if it weren't for HA attack, none of this would have happenned.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes things <I>are</I> actually that simple; cause and effect.Shayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15870009545845862845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153403452580375382006-07-20T08:50:00.000-05:002006-07-20T08:50:00.000-05:00"The israeli's said they will kick you back 20 yea..."The israeli's said they will kick you back 20 years if you dont relese the hijacked solidres - and They Did !"<BR/><BR/>I love it when people keep Their Word(tm) :)<BR/><BR/>"Finally, I'd like to pose a question to all those who admantly claim this course of action is so wrong -- what do you suggest would be a better way to go about this crisis? (because, frankly, I feel the burden of proof is entirely on yourselves.)"<BR/><BR/>gidi, indeed. Been asking this same question around, have received no answer yet. Hope you have better luck.Sir Sefirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07786179728124981509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153363079686428652006-07-19T21:37:00.000-05:002006-07-19T21:37:00.000-05:00So true, but luckily we have evolved since then :p...So true, but luckily we have evolved since then :p But I have to remind you, we did even worse things, like killing entire civilizations in the New World (now Mexico and South America), and until 25 years ago we were still in a dictatorship, a bloody one in case you don't know about it. As I said, we learned from our errors, and nowadays you can't recognize in us the country that did all these things, because we aren't any longer. I don't say other countries can't do that kind of change, but I can say that they haven't for the moment, and they aren't even willing to. They change, I'll like them. Simple.Sir Sefirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07786179728124981509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153361560523049612006-07-19T21:12:00.000-05:002006-07-19T21:12:00.000-05:00And yes, I know no one is perfect, and I don't agr...And yes, I know no one is perfect, and I don't agree with lots of things Israel has done (god guard us from being perfect), but some people are better than others, even in relative or statistic terms. That's what I care about.Sir Sefirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07786179728124981509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153361431296590912006-07-19T21:10:00.000-05:002006-07-19T21:10:00.000-05:00Amir: It's an interesting point of view, and in so...Amir: It's an interesting point of view, and in some aspects I agree with it. But I'm affraid I am not that optimistic with the so-called palestinians.<BR/><BR/>Mirvat: You might want to look some news about "500 shells with mustard and nerve gas found in Iraq". Last time I checked, those qualify indeed as WMD.<BR/><BR/>shmulik:<BR/>"Sir sefirot<BR/>I really enjoy that you like us so much but there is a name to the things you say: racism.<BR/>despite the fact many believe zionism=racism, I am a proud zionist and still consider the kind of racism you stand for abhorent. If you think there are no murderers, thives or rapists in Israel please think again."<BR/><BR/>If you mean, cultural racism (discrimination between cultures), then yes, I'm culprit. I love some cultures and hate anothers.<BR/><BR/>If you mean traditional racism (discrimination between races) then I totally deny this. I don't care from where someone is, I care how he sees things and what he thinks about them. And I don't think this is bad at all. As always, subtle difference, but a world apart in significance.Sir Sefirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07786179728124981509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153360110151207302006-07-19T20:48:00.000-05:002006-07-19T20:48:00.000-05:00good night allim exhausted - this is so addictive....good night all<BR/><BR/>im exhausted - this is so addictive..Lirunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16165940866092660086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153359689173066552006-07-19T20:41:00.000-05:002006-07-19T20:41:00.000-05:00I argee. Wholly unfair. It really is.We are both b...I argee. Wholly unfair. It really is.<BR/>We are both being manipulated by outside forces. Iran or Syria or both, it doesn't matter, we're both dying because of others' interests.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps Iran felt that it would lose it's puppets in Lebanon soon if it didn't make HA to take action.<BR/><BR/>This sucks :(Shayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15870009545845862845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153358142008485652006-07-19T20:15:00.000-05:002006-07-19T20:15:00.000-05:00heheheboxstawell i nonetheless thank you for the i...hehehe<BR/><BR/>boxsta<BR/><BR/>well i nonetheless thank you for the inspiration of setting up a blog.. you hurl accusations so indiscriminately.. you fire your sharp tongue so readily.. i dont see exactly how you forward your own cause or represent anything different to what you condemn.. whats more you boast of your ignorance and base extreme statements on admittedly minimal research..<BR/><BR/>again.. in israel we live not only our truth but also our mistakes.. we argue bitterly right and wrong and openly challenge eachother vehemently..<BR/><BR/>this blog is a wonderful opportunity for both sides to learn of each other's concerns.. i hope behind your offensive communication there is also a mind that is listening to our concerns and perhaps even learning how we may bridge them in future..<BR/><BR/>i wont continue to nag you :)<BR/><BR/>again.. wishing you and the entire state of lebanon health, safety and peace<BR/><BR/>lirun (apparently the attention "craving" brat)<BR/>tel-aviv<BR/>www.emspeace.blogspot.com<BR/><BR/>ps long live and god bless doha and her well researched thorough thoughtful and dialog provoking postsLirunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16165940866092660086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153356087817858752006-07-19T19:41:00.000-05:002006-07-19T19:41:00.000-05:00boxu are plainly inflammatory and you are ignoring...box<BR/><BR/>u are plainly inflammatory and you are ignoring the responses to you..<BR/><BR/>i take on board Doha's comments about the brevity of lebanon's separation from syrian control.. but i dont understand why it waits for israeli intervention before it calls for international assistance.. why couldnt lebanon have made a plea to the international community while the hizbulla was driving it down a valley of death..<BR/><BR/>why does it seem reasonable to you that while lebanon sits in silence israel needs to cop rockets day in and day out for six years..<BR/><BR/>the cedar revolution - and we bless and commend it - came at the expense of a lot of israeli restraint involving us being the restrained target of many many huzbulla rockets..<BR/><BR/>israel has as such been forced to pay the price for lebanese complacency for years.. but now when we are finaly fed up.. now when we finally respond not only to your lack of sovereignty but to your fellow citizens abuse of ours.. now you erupt in anger and call us liars? <BR/><BR/>you tell me to avoid your site and set up an alternative blog to demonstrate my genuine ambition to achieve peace and then you ignore me.. do you think i personally need your approval? israel is resilient and strong and as israelis it is clear to us that it is by choice that we exercise our force in a discerning manner rather than acting like your aggressive brothers inthe south and indiscriminately firing 1300 rockets just about anywhere.. and equally.. it is by choice that every voice on this site extending you an olive branch seeks to do so.. <BR/><BR/>what are you thinking?! that we get paid just to write stupid empty statements to tickle your anger?<BR/><BR/>come on boxsta.. get real buddy..<BR/><BR/>you tell me to start a blog for dialog and all you do is ignore everyone.. now why dont youshow some integrity and respond to my post <BR/><BR/>still wishing you health, safety and peace<BR/><BR/>lirun<BR/>tel-aviv<BR/><BR/>www.emspeace.blogspot.comLirunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16165940866092660086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153354547933372462006-07-19T19:15:00.000-05:002006-07-19T19:15:00.000-05:00jay:War is when civilince die for higher course (t...jay:<BR/>War is when civilince die for higher course (this time just for irans fun). today 3 moslems from israel died, 2 of them children.Andreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707485787869969488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153351514906003422006-07-19T18:25:00.000-05:002006-07-19T18:25:00.000-05:00The only thing I can say to the IDF's defence is t...<I>The only thing I can say to the IDF's defence is that, although they are inflicting huge damage, they are not bombing completely indiscrimanetly.</I><BR/><BR/>Not to be too cynical, but that would not leave any bargaining chips, now would it?<BR/><BR/>I suppose I should have been clearer in that I was asking those who support the current war on Lebanon. But, thank you for your clear and honest answer.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06060730496105316326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153350996591829262006-07-19T18:16:00.000-05:002006-07-19T18:16:00.000-05:00al-ghadabdulsaati,I left you a comment on another ...al-ghadabdulsaati,<BR/><BR/>I left you a comment on another post explaining that I did not intend to launch a blanket attack. I was addressing "macho posters", "let's bomb the shit out of them" posters. I thought you should know.<BR/><BR/>I think the Daily Start article on the media coverage hits the nail right on the head. Concerning the one you sent, I agree that the core issue to solve is the Palestinian issue. I think it will have a domino effect.<BR/><BR/>I too am looking for a way into Beirut. I cannot stand this anymore. Are you there?T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06060730496105316326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153350412972360002006-07-19T18:06:00.000-05:002006-07-19T18:06:00.000-05:00in greek culture there is a grate sin called the "...in greek culture there is a grate sin called the "hibris" which means pride (well, too much of of it). in their plays, the sin of hibris brings their hero to detruction. Israelis havd the sin of hibris after 67, and have payed for it in 72. Nassralah had this sin now, but he has a unfortuantly U are the one to pay for his sins.<BR/>(Just another descrityion of the situation, to make us all as objective as we may be - these are not my thaughs)Andreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707485787869969488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153349499594671322006-07-19T17:51:00.001-05:002006-07-19T17:51:00.001-05:00Actualy, Iran and USA do make israel fight. Everit...Actualy, Iran and USA do make israel fight. Everithing that hapenes here and now was predicted by both israelis and iranians and is much of interest of us in the region. Israel HAS whitdrawn its forces from lebanon in 2000. Back then the ressidents of northern israel and the whole of israel where asking - how can we withdraw? wouldn't it bring hezbolah closer to us, would it not allow them to shoot rockets further into israel? would not they be able to cross the border easyly (and dressed like IDF soldiers shoot and kill innocent bus passengers)? <BR/>The answer of the goverment to the israely citizens was that: if we would be inside our borders, any atack fromt them wouldnt be rightful they ARE NOT RESISTANCE ANY MORE!!! , and we would then have the right to response as we will.<BR/>too bad that it was said only to the citizence of israel, and as I see here lebanon knew nothing about itAndreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707485787869969488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153349461929992342006-07-19T17:51:00.000-05:002006-07-19T17:51:00.000-05:00Eran,I don't know how many times I and other Leban...Eran,<BR/><BR/>I don't know how many times I and other Lebanese have to explain this to you. THE IDF IS NOT EVEN <B>TRYING</B> TO LIMIT ITSELF TO HIZBALLAH SITES. Read <A HREF="http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=1&article_id=74092" REL="nofollow">this</A> and <A HTTP://WWW.DAILYSTAR.COM.LB/ARTICLE.ASP?EDITION_ID=1&CATEG_ID=2&ARTICLE_ID=74108 HREF="" REL="nofollow">this</A> article. Of course you wish us harm. Stop lying to yourself. This is collective punishment if I have seen any. And I would not wish or condone it for anyone under <B>ANY</B> banner or excuse. FULL STOP!T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06060730496105316326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153348311260905062006-07-19T17:31:00.000-05:002006-07-19T17:31:00.000-05:00but what is the first thing that israel targeted ?...<I>but what is the first thing that israel targeted ? the airport.</I><BR/><BR/>Right, LS. And it is of no strategic value to Hizballah whatsoever. It is just meant to break us. So don't let it!T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06060730496105316326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153348148389390062006-07-19T17:29:00.000-05:002006-07-19T17:29:00.000-05:00I have a question to most Israelis on this forum:I...I have a question to most Israelis on this forum:<BR/><BR/>It just occured to me that here I am for the past 6 days arguing with you calmly, while the IDF carries out a systematic destruction of my country <B>with your approval</B>.<BR/><BR/>I was wondering to myself, had I been a supporter of Hizballah, would you be patiently arguing with me the same way? I am asking this despite the fact that Hizballah's rocket pale in comparison to what the IDF is doing to Lebanon. I am curious.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06060730496105316326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153347870512700602006-07-19T17:24:00.000-05:002006-07-19T17:24:00.000-05:00Telling it like it is. Check out this article in t...Telling it like it is. Check out <A HREF="http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=1&article_id=74092" REL="nofollow">this article</A> in the Lebanses Daily Star.<BR/>And I can assure you that the Daily Star was never Hizballah friendly.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06060730496105316326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153347526359288682006-07-19T17:18:00.000-05:002006-07-19T17:18:00.000-05:00I wonder, can there be a peaceful, revolution in t...I wonder, can there be a peaceful, revolution in two bordering countries, demanding the OTHERS to not make them fight.Andreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707485787869969488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153345740002641482006-07-19T16:49:00.000-05:002006-07-19T16:49:00.000-05:00and look at thishttp://fromisraeltolebanon.info/i ...and look at this<BR/>http://fromisraeltolebanon.info/<BR/><BR/>i saw today that the rabbis of west banks are telling the government that according to the Torah, it is fine to kill children and civilians in time of war..is this true?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11322798551213196713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153345527362038432006-07-19T16:45:00.000-05:002006-07-19T16:45:00.000-05:00looks how much better iraq is nowhttp://angryarab....looks how much better iraq is now<BR/>http://angryarab.blogspot.com/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11322798551213196713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153345311284597302006-07-19T16:41:00.000-05:002006-07-19T16:41:00.000-05:00bush---WMD, Iraq must be attacked then, oops...bush---WMD, Iraq must be attacked<BR/> then, oops, no WMD but Iraq should still be attacked, we're fighting ther fight for them. we are establishing democracy.<BR/><BR/>Olmert (well, bush)<BR/> ---we want the 2 prisoners back, we will attack lebanon..<BR/>later, alright it's not about the prisoners but we still wanted to attack anyway..<BR/>we fight the fight for them<BR/>this is for their own good<BR/>we're bringing democracy<BR/>war on terror..<BR/><BR/>well look at iraq now<BR/>http://angryarab.blogspot.com/<BR/><BR/>also if you wanted to get rid of a part of lebanon that hates you now everybody hates you.<BR/>good job!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11322798551213196713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153341784503238202006-07-19T15:43:00.000-05:002006-07-19T15:43:00.000-05:00dror - Mostly agree, and, as I mentioned somewhere...dror - Mostly agree, and, as I mentioned somewhere else before, daisy-cutter style bombs (termobaric bombs) can do as much damage as an atomic bomb, and if Israel used them we would be counting the civilians by the hundreds of thousands. So there's a factor 1 to 1000 here in casualties to killing capability. No point in talking about "massacres", "IDF targeting civilians", etc...<BR/><BR/>And doha, I haven't said Lebanese haven't done anything good - I guess they have done much more things than lots of other countries (most african ones, and others like North Corea and such), I was just doing a comparison. I myself I'm not Israeli, but Catalan (Spanish). We Catalans have had quite a diaspora as well, we have a territory (not a country, sadly) 2 or 3 times the size of Lebanon, and we have universities and scientists and intellectuals and writers and everything else around the globe. We are responsible for some of the most modern advances in medicine, astronomy, mathematics and computers. During the middle ages, Catalonia was one of the biggest kingdoms in the mediterranean, and one of the few where commerce, science and literature flourished during that period.<BR/><BR/>But I'd still prefer an Israeli to a Catalan. There's orders of magnitude of difference.<BR/><BR/>That's my point of view, and I won't change it without evidence. If you want to ban me, you're in your right, but it will say most about your view of the freedom of speech. Plus, you'll lose a regular reader.Sir Sefirothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07786179728124981509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153340998221849092006-07-19T15:29:00.000-05:002006-07-19T15:29:00.000-05:00Suha,The problem with being a bully is that there ...Suha,<BR/><BR/>The problem with being a bully is that there is always a bigger bully (I suppose every reader will interpret it the way he feels comfortable with)<BR/><BR/>Lebanon without the protection of the international community does not stand a chance of rebuilding itself (since there is always someone that will take advantage of it's weakness). So the basic question is, what made the international situation this time different ?<BR/><BR/>Obviously the time was right for both Iran, Syria and Israel. <BR/><BR/>Iran since 9/11 is in constant negotiation with the US (on help in Afgahnistan, on Nuclear weapons, on restraining Shias in Iraq, on oil prices and god knows what). Since the invasion to Iraq, Iran is gaining more and more reigonal power.<BR/><BR/>Syria has many problems. All of its neighbouring countries are under American influence now (Turkey, Iraq, Israel , Lebanon, Jordan) and the tension with the international investigation of Hariri does not makes it any better. Inciting a fire that only them (or Iran) can put off is a good bargaining chip.<BR/><BR/>Israel wants to unilatirally retriet from the west bank (I am taking it as a given although this could also be explained). Israel closely monitored HZ arm (race) and could not wait another few years until it was even stronger. If HZ gets stronger after Israel retreated from Lebanon, Olmert will never be able to do the same thing in the West Bank.<BR/><BR/>Egypt and Saudia do not want to see Iran getting more influence in their reigion, and therefore they see the money flowing from Iran to Hizbollah as a strategic problem.<BR/><BR/>Europe has not forgotten Al-Kaida attacks in Spain and London and the humiliating Arab minority uprising in Paris. It has nothing to do with lebanon except the fact they are all arabs. However, you cannot expect the Europeans to be able to make the distinction. Lebanon is not under Israel occupation so the automatic "Stop the colonialization" response cannot be used either.<BR/><BR/>And lebanon is poor. It dependent of richer countries (Saudies or Iran or even Syria). It cannot afford a big army, and it does not have access to US weapons (like Egypt has).<BR/><BR/>As I see it, the only way out of this mess, is for the Lebanon prime minister (Fouad Siniora , right?) to take a stand. There must be a Lebanonies interest somewhere but no one ever heard it. Supporting Syria , Iran or Israel is not an option. Once Lebanon has a clear voice the international community will stand behind it and Israel will have no choice but to play along. His recent call for a cease fire plays into the hands of everyone except Lebanon. <BR/><BR/>In the next few days, the Hizbollah will not risk a civil war since it is fighting with Israel and cannot afford to have one arm tied behind its back. Now that most of the foriegns are gone from Lebanon HZ cannot kidnap more people. The airstrikes are weakening its military force, and Israel has done almost everything to clear the way for a ground invasion (although no one knows if it will actually do it and when). The shiates find refugee in Christian and Sunni neighbourhoods which on one hand increases tension but on the other it makes them even more vulenarble to civil war.<BR/><BR/>A common enemy (Israel) is Fouad Siniora's chance to skillfully manipulate public opinion into a lebanon unity which will serve only Lebanon's interest without risking a civil war.<BR/><BR/>Knowing the Lebanonies figures better, would you think such a move is possible ?<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>Itai FrenkelItai Frenkelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04943454544704480736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10968421.post-1153338633695491332006-07-19T14:50:00.000-05:002006-07-19T14:50:00.000-05:00Sir Sefirot.Case in point apparently. Lets look th...Sir Sefirot.<BR/><BR/>Case in point apparently. Lets look the other way.D.B. Shobrawyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15468656300201176931noreply@blogger.com