Friday, June 09, 2006

First thing I actually noticed in Lebanon

Found it on the pillar of an over-pass while on the Airport Highway. It basically tells me that at least some Hizballah supporters equate LF/LBC with Israelis.

Most Lebanese equate Hizballah with Iran... but Iran does not have the sort of baggage that Israel has in the minds of staunch Hizballahis. In other words, most Lebanese won't strangle the first Iranian they see. On the other hand...

This equation is frightening!

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

Raja,
Hizballahis or otherwise...Iran did not invade their country, kill thousands of their brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, etc..., occupy their land for decades, kidnap their fellow citizens, torture them, intimidate them daily.

Iranians/Persians did not forcibly take over a next door Arab country,Palestine, kick most of its its citizens out and subject the rest to daily death, humiliation and degradation.

Are you telling me that in your eyes, Iran and Israel represent the same? If so, on what grounds would you justify such a position? Please enumirate for us the countless ways Iran has caused ill to lebanon and its citizens. What has Iran done to your family and your country?

Sometimes one wonders if we live on the same planet and are experiencing the same things.

I visit this blog once in a while to get a spectrum of opinions, but I have never seen you even attempt to strike a fair and balanced position. You decry sectarianism, and yet I believe your own narrow-minded, sect-centricity robs you of any credibility.

If you want those out there to take you seriously, call things as they are. Ethnic animosity does not change the facts of history. Regardless of your low opinion of the Shia and, whether in lebanon or Iran, you'd be hard-pressed to present any evidence that can white-wash the bloody history of the Israelis or their allies in Lebanon. The grafitti you so deride has basis in recent history, and regardless of the glorious attempts of the national dialogue, the fact remains that there are those in lebanon, not least of which those most represented and spoken for by LF/LBC (whom you seem to identify with), who view the Israelis as more kindred spirits than their fellow citizens, specifically the shia. You may gloss around it all you want, but these are the facts. At least someone is calling things as they are.

Tell us you true feelings once and for all...exactly how would you start purging the Shia out of Lebanon?

Anonymous said...

If that equation was frightening to Raja, maybe he check out this video-game spray logo on the lebanese Forces web site.

http://www.lebaneseforces.com/counterstrike.asp

Anonymous said...

Raja,

Bravo for your post. It is quite shocking that we would see the LBC logo associated with the star of David.

Furthermore, it is clear that Israel and Iran are not comparable when it comes to the harm they have done to Lebanon. Iran is clearly the more dangerous evil, with the hundreds of millions in financial aid and truckloads of weapons shipped to Lebanon every year.

For those who want to rewrite history concerning what role Iran played in Lebanon, they will not succeed, as millions of people around the world, remember the revolutionary guard in Lebanon, and millions saw the blood that they have on their hands.

So again Raja, I thank you for your post, showing the double standards between Iranian evil and Israeli evil. Both are guilty of the worse crimes in Lebanon, and no apologist anonymous commentators (like the above) can ever change that.

Keep up the good work.

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:22, IANAL but here is what I think.

Regardless of what Raja thinks of iran and israel, I did not get the impression that in this post he is trying to convince anyone that Iran is as bad as Israel.

The facts of the matter are simple, today being an Israeli sympathizer (or working with israel) is a crime in the lebanese law so it is a big deal, whereas being a syrian / Iranian sympatizer (or working with Iran/syria) is not a crime so that accusation is not as big a deal.

If Raja is wrong in his accusation of Shia being pro Iran he has no problem, his accusation does not carry any criminal weight. He can say, "Sorry I was wrong my bad" end of the issue.

Whereas if you turned out to be wrong in your accusation , for example LF is pro israeli but LBC is not massalan, you cannot say "oh sorry I turned out to be wrong", it is fair for LBC to sue you for slander and libel on the basis of what you said and wrote.
Both accusation are not ont the same level.

Also second anonymous, yes that spray painting is racist and bad and whatever but you are lying, the website you point to is is NOT the lebanese forces website as you are trying to imply, the lebanese forces website is http://www.lebanese-forces.org/ (as it can be seen from the links on the site you mention)
The site you linked to is a personal website that might or might not be affiliates with the official lebanse forces. However you too are trying to cause hate , problems and a split in the christian/muslim partnership between LF and Future by implying (based on false information) that the opinion of one racist (posibly ex) Lebanese Forces member are the opinion of all of them.

PS I have no idea what LF think other than what I hear them say on TV.

TAC

Anonymous said...

also anonymous 3:52
Just for the fun of it, i went to http://www.hizballah.com/ (try it for yourself)
The address of the site looks sooooo official, we must make it the basis of our arguments regarding hizballah's position shouldn't we? Just liek you do with LF.

Well I got a page with tons of ads among which an ad for a dating site that says: Sexy Israeli Single and an ad for israeli art gallery, should we conclude that this is an official position of Hizballah promoting Israeli art and dating?

The game you are playing is not as insightful and funny when played by someone else? Is it?

TAC.

JoseyWales said...

Here we go again.

You criticize HA, or HA supporters, you get a lecture on the evils of Israel, and often you are accused of being an agent. Then we get Iran is not Israel, (but Bush is Zarqawi) and other utter nonsense.

That's what happened to Rabbi Joumblatt and others (Aoun before he toed the Syrian line).

That's the method of the totalitarians (see Baath).

It is bad, there no reasoning with some people.

Anonymous said...

"Furthermore, it is clear that Israel and Iran are not comparable when it comes to the harm they have done to Lebanon. Iran is clearly the more dangerous evil, with the hundreds of millions in financial aid and truckloads of weapons shipped to Lebanon every year.

For those who want to rewrite history concerning what role Iran played in Lebanon, they will not succeed, as millions of people around the world, remember the revolutionary guard in Lebanon, and millions saw the blood that they have on their hands."

Are you even sane? Which settlement-published Zionist book are you reading from?

Anonymous said...

TAC,

You dont have to jump at whoever mentioned counterstrike. It is definitely equivelant to what Raja is describing. This website was set up by an LFer, just like the graffiti was made by a shiite. They are both super disturbing, and from my point of view the LF graffiti is slightly more disturbing as it is targeting the teenagers that are playing that game and it implies way much more violence as inspired by the game.

CK

Raja said...

Anon 3:22 AM,

You proved the point I was trying to make through my post. The Iranians do not stir up the kind of emotions that the Israelis do in this country!

If I go to the South and say I am an Israeli to any group of people, I would probably be murdered! If I went up to Brumana and declared that I was an Iranian, I would be made to feel very uncomfortable... maybe I'd get molested, but I doubt I would raise temperatures to such an extent that the villagers would want to kill me!

So when a Hizballahi equates LBC with Israel, he is essentially declaring a death warrant. On the other hand, when a Lebanese labels Hizballah as Iranian, the implications are not as severe.

Please notice that I did not delve into trying to explain the differences. You did so, by assuming that I had suggested a counter-argument. In other words, you argued against a vaccuum.

The entire point of the peice is can be summed up in that last scentence: "the equation of LBC to Israel by a Hizballahi is frightening."

Umm Kais said...

Anon #1, you said:

"Regardless of your low opinion of the Shia..."

Why is it if you criticize Hizbullah, someone like you has the right to accuse that same person of hating/havivng a low opinion of all Shia? Where in Raja's post did he express disdain for Shia? Because he mentioned Hizbullah and Iran? Please do not arrogantly assume all Shia Lebanese support Hizbullah (or Iran)--because I can promise you that they do not. People like you make Lebanese sectarianism worse when you fail to differentiate the two.

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:46 AM

"Are you even sane? Which settlement-published Zionist book are you reading from?"

-No I am just not brainwashed like you are ;-)

Anonymous said...

CK
I agree with you, my complain to the second anon was just on the "Lebanese Forces website" issue.
If you compare it to the original graffiti it makes sense, and you have a strong argument, if you try to pass it as posted on the "Lebanese Forces website", you are just lying :-)

Anonymous said...

Raja,
HA and their supporters equated the LF with the Israelis a long time ago, based on their murderous collusion with the latter during 22 years of Israeli occupation of Lebanon. Yet when the Israelis fled in 2000, HA or their supporters did not exact revenge against a single Lebanese traitor/murderer (most of whom were Christians), even though they had all the right in the world.

So why are you all of a sudden hysterical because of a single graffiti sign you saw under a bridge in Beirut, as if Shia are about to embark on a "strangling" campaign against the LF/LBC?

Does one graffiti sign represent the official will of HA and their supporters to you? And does a political opinion always have to lead to violence? If one sign can rattle your cage like this, how many will it take to induced uncontrollable paranoia and overwhelm your senses?

You’ve looked too hard to find political fodder against HA and to promote highly unjustified fear of them. I suggest you stick to the big issues at hand, and not to read too much into the political musings of Lebanese citizens who may feel the urge to express their frustrations and opinions in a variety of ways

Hassan said...

Anon 3:53,

Most collaborators with Israel in Southern Lebanon are actually Shia, just for the record. That doesn't make HA's refraining from seeking revenge any less respectable, especially with the loose sentences that those guys got before Lebanon's military court.

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:53

I'll be even more precise then Hassan. As a matter of fact 80% of your so called traitors are Shia and not Christian.

I know it may have been convenient for them to be Christian in your world view, but sorry you're going to have to come up with another piece of lie / propaganda.

I remember in 1982 when IDF tanks were rolling down the South and into Beirut. I remember Shias women, men and children throwing flowers at the IDF tanks. So who's the collaborator now? That's another thing that has been deleted from history. How convenient.