Tuesday, September 12, 2006

The problem with regimes like the one ruling Syria...

...is you never know what to believe.

Apparently 4 terrorists attempted to detonate a bomb that was placed in a van outside of the American embassy in Damascus. Reuters reports that,
Four men shouting religious slogans tried to blow up the U.S. embassy in Damascus on Tuesday but their car bomb failed to go off and Syrian security guards killed three of them in a shootout... .

Syrian state television said the attackers had tried but failed to detonate a car bomb.
The nature of the Syrian regime makes such acts highly improbable unless they are sponsored or supported by one of its many tentacles.


Lebanese Meze said...

The big DUFUS is a dead man walking. Desperate for a last hurrah.

The Paki Liberal said...

It's no surprise that Syria itself is a target by al-Qaeda, which most of the anti-Syrian Lebanese cannot be able to grasp.

I hate Syria as much as anyone else, but anyone who believes al-Qaeda is supported by Syria is truly delusional, when al-Assad himself ordered the Syrian army to level the city of Hama back in 1982 to quell rising religious fundamentalism.

Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

Why can't you imagine 4 men with rockets and grenades infiltrating themselves in the highly secured diplomatic neighbourhood of Damascus?

Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

Who said it was al-Qaida? It's probably some idiot shmucks who are manipulated by the mukhabarat and who are unaware of this.

Sherri said...

the paki liberal,

The target was the US Embassy, not Syria. So, this is not really that surprising, coming from Al Queda. What is new is spreading attacks over more and more countries. The recent al Queda statement said attacks would be occurring in Israel and Gulf States that were viewed as supportive of Israel in the recent Israeli Lebanese war.

Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

"I hate Syria as much as anyone else"

What is this supposed to mean?

abubalboola2 said...

Regarding your opening title and sentence " The problem with regimes like the one ruling Syria... is you never know what to believe.", there was some headline that I noticed today about Israeli Arab MPs who went to visit Assad in Syria.
It was said that Assad told them that Syria is interested in peace with Israel on the basis of the Arab initiative.

Assuming he did say that, what do you think about that?
"The problem with regimes like the one ruling Syria... is you never know what to believe." sounds an applicable answer to me. even a bit too optimistic.


abubalboola2 said...

Paki liberal,
promising start from a controversial person, so it seems.

"I hate Syria as much as anyone else" contain a degree of rage towards Syrian people as well?
Those words triggers curiosity around here..


Chas said...

The US Embassy is not in a closed off compound, it is beside a busy main street and easily accessible.
Condi thanked Syrian security for their prompt action!

Peace, Chas.

Lirun said...

ok fair enough..

but frankly i never know what to believe here in israel either and i feel quite the same about pretty much any regime..

please understand i am a chronic optimist.. (ref www.emspeace.blogspot.com) but when you are fed so much horse dung for so long and every five years or so some journo exposes how everyone lied to you a few moments ago - its difficult to know whats real and what isnt..

quotes and audio grabs are all fine - but context is generally under reported.. journalism is quite a craft and in some ways more of an art.. its rare that one can ever know for certain that the output is genuinely informing..

personally i feel safer in the stable scepticism that i have towards the syrian media than i do towards the pretentious and two-faced often self-promoting journalism that we have in the "west" so to speak..

Fearless said...

Nasrallah criticises Lebanese leaders. Narallah ducks but does not change his ways. You cannot teach an old dog new tricks, but Kulu Kalb Biji Yawmou.

Tuesday 12 September 2006, 19:11

Nasrallah criticised Fuad Siniora, the Lebanonese prime minister, for giving Tony Blair a warm welcome in the country on Monday, in remarks aired by Aljazeera on Tuesday.

"You bring him home to me and to my family and you give a great reception?" Nasrallah said.

"If there was an invitation made for Tony Bair to visit, then this is a national disaster."

The Shia leader said that Blair participated in the killing of Lebanese by not doing enough to stop Israel's war with Hezbollah.

"This Tony Blair is an associate in the murdering," he said.

A few hundred Lebanese protested against Blair's visit to Beirut on Monday, accusing him of backing Israel in its 34-day war with Hezbollah.

During the war, Blair did not call for an early halt to the fighting, which wreaked destruction on Lebanon and cost the lives of nearly 1,200 people there, mostly civilians, as well as 157 Israelis, mainly soldiers.

The war began after Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid.

Criticism of Hezbollah

Nasrallah also said his group has been practicing self-restraint against what he described as back-stabbing and provocation by some politicians.

Although Hezbollah was largely supported by the Lebanese during the recent fighting with Israel, since the war ended, Sunni, Christian and Druze leaders have criticised Nasrallah's organisation for unnecessarily starting a massively costly war with Israel.

"Do not these [Lebanese officials] have feelings, calculations, brain or heart?" Nasrallah asked, apparently also criticising the Lebanese government's attempts to secure foreign aid to restore Lebanese infrastructure that was damaged during the war.

"Are people made of stone in Lebanon? Is this country vacant of people? Are we only hotels, concrete, roads and bridges?" he said.

The Lebanese government has estimated that the war has set back Lebanon's economic development by as much as 10 years.

UN accused of inaction over hostages

Also on Tuesday, Sheikh Naim Kassem, Hezbollah's deputy chief, said that his group had not been contacted by a UN envoy appointed to assist in the release of two Israeli soldiers whose capture by Hezbollah sparked the recent fighting.

Kassem said that negotiations for the release of the Israeli captives, whom Hezbollah wants to swap for Lebanese in Israeli jails, had yet to be launched almost a month after the end of a 34-day war sparked by their capture.

"We heard through the media that the UN secretary general appointed a person for the prisoner negotiations but nothing has begun yet in practice," he said.

"Matters are still at the start and this operation has yet to be launched in practice."

The UN said on Sunday it had appointed a "facilitator" who had begun working on trying to secure the releases.

A UN resolution halted the fighting in Lebanon by providing for an expansion of a United Nations peacekeeping force to police the south alongside Lebanese army troops.

Aljazeera + Agencies

Lirun said...

i think the international community should be exercising caution and keep in mind the impulsive and ego driven nature of the HA.. i dont want a civil war in lebanon..

the region will never live it down and besides.. more than enough people have died in that country for no good reason..

wishing peace to us all..

blair bush merkel etc.. please remember.. "diplomacy"

Fearless said...

The attackers of the US Embassy in Damascus were all SYRIANS.
On Wednesday, however, Syria suggested that its efforts in foiling the attack could pave the way for an improvement in tense relations between the two nations.

"The ball is now in the US administration's court," Syria's ambassador to Washington told the official Ath-Thawra newspaper.

"The policies followed by this administration do not help in improving relations in a positive fashion," Imad Mustafa said.

"There is a chance to improve these relations because Syria has always believed in dialogue as a means to solving all problems and pending issues."

No claim yet

Syrian officials called the attack a "terrorist" act, with state-run Sana news agency describing the assailants as tafkiri Islamist radicals, although no group has yet claimed responsibility.

The embassy remained closed on Wednesday, after Americans were warned to keep a low profile.

Bassam Abdel Majid, the Syrian interior minister, said an initial investigation showed the two vehicles used in the attack were stolen, state television said.

Later reports from Washington said that an injured asssailant captured during the attack had been co-operating with Syrian authorities.

The attacker is "providing information to Syrian security authorities", but it was not immediately known who was behind the assault, Abdel Majid told US charge d'affaires Michael Corbin, State Department Spokesman Tom Casey said.

Although the attackers failed to penetrate the high barbed-wire-topped walls of the compound, one reinforced glass window near an entrance door was pierced by a bullet.

The Bush administration has previously often condemned Syria, which it says supports the Lebanese Shia group Hezbollah, and accuses it of harbouring terrorists and inciting unrest in Iraq.

Washington withdrew its ambassador in Damascus after the assassination of Rafiq al-Hariri, the former Lebanese prime minister, last year.

Syria denied findings of a UN investigation which implicated its intelligence services in the killing.

US praise

The Syrian embassy's statement came just hours after Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, and the White House, offered praise for the Syrian security forces for foiling Tuesday's attack.

"What has happened recently in Lebanon, the Palestinian territories and Iraq is exacerbating the fight against global terrorism"

Syrian embassy in Washington

Rice said during a visit to Canada that she was grateful for Syria's actions.

"We appreciate the response of the Syrian security forces to help secure our territory. I was very grateful that the attack did not succeed," she said.

The White House emphasised that the incident highlighted the importance of Damascus' aid in fighting extremism.

"We are hoping they will become an ally and make the choice of fighting against terrorists," said Tony Snow, the White House spokesman.

The attack

Television footage of the scene on Tuesday showed a van packed with gas canisters and detonators taped to them, as well as bloodstains on the pavement and several damaged vehicles, including a white, bullet-riddled car.

"I would certainly reject the notion that the United States ... is the cause of violence. It's clearly the opposite way"

Tom Casey, US state department deputy spokesman

Ayman Abdel-Nour, a Syrian political commentator who was in the area, said: "I saw two men in plain clothes and armed with grenades and automatic weapons.

"They ran toward the compound shouting religious slogans while firing their automatic rifles."

The attack, one day after the fifth anniversary of al-Qaeda's attacks on the US, was the first such shooting and bombing assault on an embassy in Damascus.

The official Syrian Arab News Agency said that three assailants were killed in Tuesday's attack and a fourth was wounded. Eleven bystanders were wounded, including an Iraqi couple and a senior Chinese diplomat.

A member of the Syrian security services was killed.

The Rawda district where the attack occurred is one of the most heavily guarded parts of the Syrian capital. It comprises security installations and the homes of senior government officials.


Fearless said...

Hezbollah, ses missiles et la Force Internationale

L’adjoint de Nasrallah, un certain Naïm Kassem a affirmé dans une interview parue aujourd’hui que le Hezbollah n’avait pas de problème de munition : « Nous avons utilisé 10 % de notre arsenal contre Israël … Nous pouvions encore tenir longtemps … Nous n’avons pas de problème de munitions »

Pourtant dans une étude d’Uzi Rubin pour le Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, ce sont 4 228 missiles qui ont été tirées sur le Nord d’Israël. Les renseignements militaires évaluaient à environ 12 000 le nombre de roquettes de provenance iranienne et syrienne aux mains du groupes terroriste shiite. Si les dire de Kassem sont exactes il faudrait quadrupler ces évaluations.
Il semble plutôt que ces affirmations du numéro 2 du Hezbollah doivent être prises dans le contexte géopolitique tel qu'il se dessine aujourd’hui.
Après des refus nets et clairs, Assad semble accepter la présence d’une force internationale à la frontière syro-libanaise. Il avait proposé d’envoyer quelques bataillions syriens pour empêcher le passage d’armes et de munitions au Hezbollah. Comme si celles-ci passaient en contrebande et alors qu’elles sont envoyées parles ordres d’Assad lui-même. De sa haute intelligence, Kofi Annan lui-même n’est pas tombé dans le piège et s’est mis d’accord pour envoyer quelques troufions désarmés et sans uniformes, histoire de dire que la FINUL n’a rien à faire de ce coté là du Liban !
En fin de semaine Israël a levé l’embargo par air et par mer sur le Liban. Les forces navales italiennes et françaises ont pris la relève des porteurs de missiles israéliens qui patrouillaient et fermaient les accès maritimes au Liban. Non sans clamer haut et fort que le but de la force internationale est d’aidé le Liban et en rien d’arraisonner un navire par la force !
La force militaire allemande qui devait contrôler l’aéroport de Beyrouth s’est faite prier, par les autorités libanaises, de se mettre à l’écart et surtout de ne pas vérifier les soutes des avions à leur atterrissage.
Ainsi la force internationale « augmentée » sous les ordres du général français qui commande aujourd’hui la FINUL et sous la responsabilité directe du Secrétaire Général de l’ONU, qui doit bientôt quitter son poste, le même Kofi Annan responsables des forces d’interventions des casques bleus au Rwanda lors du génocide et ceux d’ex-Yougoslavie lors des massacres, Prix Nobel de la Paix, cette force est tout sauf une force : des missions et des moyens totalement incohérents quant au cessez-le-feu et la décision 1701 de l’ONU.
Nasrallah et le Hezbollah le savent : ils peuvent affirmer aujourd’hui avoir leur arsenal presque intact. Personne n’ira vérifier, personne n’empêchera les armements d’affluer au Sud Liban sous l’œil des soldats français en passant sur des ponts français construits par les forces du génie français !

Fearless said...

Syrian arms for Hizboullah
Wednesday, September 13, 2006
Cyprus Says Detained Ship Carrying Air Defence Radars to Syria

Cyprus Says Detained Ship Carrying Air Defence Radars to Syria
By VOA News 11 September 2006
Authorities in Cyprus say they found what appears to be military radar
equipment on a Syria-bound cargo ship detained on suspicion of arms

Police in Cyprus say the Gregorio 1 was carrying 18 trucks fitted with
mobile radar they believe are part of an air defense system. The equipment
was loaded in North Korea and was on its way to the Syrian port of Latakia.

Cypriot police say they received a tip from the international police agency
Interpol of possible arms smuggling. The ship's manifest said the cargo was
weather-tracking equipment.

The justice minister of Cyprus, Sophocles Sophocleous, says the matter has
been turned over to the foreign ministry.
Syria has asked for the cargo to be released.

Western nations believe Syria has funneled weapons to the Shi'ite militia
Hezbollah in Lebanon.

The August ceasefire resolution that ended the fighting between Israel and
Hezbollah bans the supply of arms to Lebanon except those authorized by the
Lebanese government.

Some information for this report was provided by AFP and Reuters

Chas said...

What is it about tin-pot dictators that US finds so attractive? Why on earth make overtures to Assad, who, in my opinion will never act with integrity, while at the same time supporting Israeli action which could have toppled possibly the most inclusive democracy in the region?
The US seems to rejoice in supporting dictatorships everywhere (including Saddam at one time) while finding it almost impossible to cope with democracy anywhere in the mid-east.
Meanwhile we are told this so-called "war on Terror" is all about supporting freedom and democracy. (well unless of course you elect someone the US doesn't like).
Peace, Chas

why-discuss said...

How long do you think thousands of Italians, Germans, French , Indonesian, Turks will remain in the south of Lebanon, watching the sea for DHL delivery of Hezbollah weapons? If Hezbollah has still a huge stock, isn't a waste of time, money and and energy. That presence seems to me just a band-aid... nothing is solved if Lebanon does not have a national union goverment instead of the 14th march dinosaures..

Lirun said...

indonesians in the south of lebanon?!?! really??

i know they secretly buy our advanced software solutions but they wont openly admit that we are human - as far as they are concerned "saya gilla saya lotung".. ; ) - excellent customers though "terimakasi" - i like them but i thought only nations with diplomatic ties were being let in..

anyway.. i am not categorically anti assad..

i mean.. how long was i educated to hate kadafi before he suddenly became the middle east's cover boy of western collaboration.. you get used to people switching roles here.. nothing is surprising..

wishing peace to us all..


Ergotelina said...



chuck said...

did u hear about the words of the pope ?

"In his speech at the University of Regensburg on Tuesday, Benedict quoted criticism of Islam and the Prophet Mohammad by 14th century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus, who wrote that everything Mohammad brought was evil and inhuman, "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

this is a little more then just a caricture about muhamad.
i wonder when will the riots start...?

abubalboola2 said...

Can you please give a link?


chuck said...




Ergotelina said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Ergotelina said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Ergotelina said...

Pope's speech

chuck said...

and the answer of the thousands of muslims going out on the streets :
"with spirit and blood we will keep the honor of islam".
truly, peacfull words.

and while the pope is sending his apologies and claims the words were taken out of context (which u can judge urself by the text of the speech brought by ergo te lina in the comment above), the arab world is demanding a personal apology.

and meanwhile, somwhere in the middle east, in the Israeli town of um-el fahem, the leader of the islamic movement in Israel called to thousand of people in the movement's convention, that Jerusalem will soon be an islamic city, under islamic rule.
and i already saw ayear ago, signs that were saying that this leader is facing peace (those calls came while he was arrested for incitment in Israel) and that time will tell that he is a peacfull man. well, i guess time does reveal the true face of this leader, indeed.

and a few Israeli arabs, which happened to be an Israeli officials, went on a trip to syria and lebanon, and called for the hisballa and the lebanese people to be proud of their achievements against Israel, and warned the syrian people from a close attack of the Israelies...
and u know what? no one will do anything to those people.

if Israel is not a democratic country, then i don't know which country is...

chuck said...

an iraqi movment called "the military organisation of the mujahedin" is calling for an assasination of the pope becasue of the things he said about islam and mohamad. they threaten to suicide attack the pope, blowing him up and destroying all crusafixes in his home.

that's the spirit.
kill him for saying that islam is a religion that suports violance.
that will show him that he is wrong.

Sherri said...


What I read was that the Pope would not apologize for his remarks. And why did he make the statement he made? Should it not have been anticipated, this type of reaction.

I must remove the Pope from my list of heroes (I thought he spoke out against injustices in the world and acts against humanity, but I guess I was wrong), after this, and his failure to make stronger public statements about the bombing of civilians in Lebanon and the genocide in Darfur.

My Heroes who are left: Former US President Jimmy Carter (who I just listened to in an interview on Larry King and almost completely agreed with everything he said); Koffi Annan (for being objective and humane and standing up against the US and other bullies in the world); Bishop Desmund Tutu (who wrote a book about the end of apartheid in South Africa and I agree with and admire for his beliefs on forgiveness and reconciliation).


I just heard a report that the US government was warning and threatening some country in Central or South America not to elect a particular person as leader or face consequences. Maybe it was Nicoragua. I have to look this up again. How far will the US go to interfere with democratic elections in other countries and impose their will on other countries?

chuck said...


ofcourse this remark of the pope was out of place. he also made this remark in a highly sensitive time, and it is completley unneccecary.

but don't u think it's stupid to say "we will show him we r not violent by killing him, by rioting in the streets all over the world and by calling to deffend islam by blood and spirit ?"

this only proves the words of the pope to be nothing but true. don't u think ?

not that i completley agree with his words.

u have to agree that there is an element of agression in islam that is more noticable then in other religions.
saying that islam is a peacfull religion is simply being naive, or pretending.

why is it that msot conflicts that occur today r of an islamic nature ?

why is it that muslims call all over the world, even in western countries where they live, for the distruction of the west ?

u don't see jews doing that, although jews have a lot to be angry about, and many people around the world go out with anti jewish statments in public without the jews of the world uniting in worldwide protest, burning things' attacking people of other religions in the streets and calling for mass detruction
and genocide. do u ?

and the same with christions, and budhists, and bahaians, and others.

why is that ?

why is it that almost all arab countries must have a totalitarian regime ?

why is it that the most fanatic extremists that endolge suicide and holy wars, comes in the name of islamic religion ?
and if it is so important for muslims not to be seen in such a way, why don't they go out in cries against those people who take advantage of the islamic religion as a motiv for their actions ? why is that ?

don't u see the stupidity in going to hit a guy and murder him because he said u r a violent person ? where is the sens in that ?

chuck said...


did u hear that the prime Rabbi of the Israeli sefaradic stream (there r 2 main streams, sefaradic and ashkenaz) has sent a letter of regrete over the words of the pope, to the qatari sheikh yusef kardawi (a highly apriciated and known prosectutor of the islamic suni law).

the words in the letter :
"our way is to honor every religion, every people and nationality and their ways,
by the words of the proffit "for all nations follow the word of their god".
even when nations struggle it is not to be turned into a religious fight.
and peace and truth shell love."
Rabbi Aamar.
it was delivered to the sheikh by the Israeli-arab sheikh, Abdalla nimer darwish, the founder of the islamic movement in Israel.

and by the way i already heard yesterday that the pope had appologised but his appology wasn't accepted.

and meanwhile muslims r burning churches and a muslim group is threatening to start suicide attacks in rome.

turtlecurls said...

As I read the link to the Pope's speech what I got is that he spent too much time studying ancient greek philosophy, and not enough writing this speech, so that one could figure out what he meant by it.

The best gist I could get was that he was using Kor'an as well as other philosophy & religious an example to teach that even if others use violence, to not use violence back. (I couldn't read through it in every detail -- it was too mumbo jumbo for my patience.)

Any which way, it was in very poor taste. He should have stuck with the Christian bible in my opinion.

chuck said...

indeed, verry poor taste and verry bad timing.

turtlecurls said...


You wrote -- "I just heard a report that the US government was warning and threatening some country in Central or South America not to elect a particular person as leader or face consequences"

If you find the specifics, can you post them?

It certainly wouldn't be "the government", meaning Congress, since it would have to come up for vote, or any official presentation since it would be part of the news & quickly flagged.

However, there are stories that in the past from time to time the President or CIA had done underhanded things, some of which I'm sure some are true. (Some of which I'm sure are overblown by conspiracy theoristist.) It seems to be a political thing, that if you have the where-with-all to stand up to the ego-demanding part of policitics, you are a little too egotistical to be totally moral about knowing the boundries of your power.

So it would be good to hear about these things before it happened, and see there is any pressure to apply. As far as a public announcement threating a country as a whole not to elect someone -- that's just not the kind of thing that happens. At best I could see someone misinterpreting a political analysis program on the consquences of various election results as a "threat" -- when it was only chatting.


Sherri said...


All religions are subject to interpretation and, throughout history, many horrible things have been done in the name of religions. Look at Christianity, the Crusades, the Reformation, and all of the bloody battles fought over denominational differences within Christianity in Europe.

Most of the time "wars fought for God" are really not that. When you look closer at them, they are about power or greed. People use the name "God" to support their personal goals.

My husband was born in Iran and his parents were Shiite Muslims, but not really that religious. He does not believe as a Muslim, and says he does not believe in God because of all the awful things he has seen done in the name of religion. I asked him about the concepts of Holy War and Jihad, from a religious perspective, and he knew nothing about it. I looked for answers on an Islam site and read that there was actually nothing in the Koran on this. So, these concepts of Holy War and Jihad are being created by people.

I do not think it is fair to blame the Muslim religion itself for violence carried out by fanatical people, acting to serve their own personal interests in some way. Just as it is not fair to blame Christianity for the Crusades or George Bush and his many wars he says he wages and threatens to wage for peace and good and Godly purposes. People use "God" for their own purposes. One thing I know about my God, as a Christian, is my God is not the God George Bush purports to follow. My God gives me two primary commands: (1)Love God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul. (2) Love your neighbor as yourself. My God loves peace and tells me to love him and love others, not wage continuous wars against others, not hate and kill them.

Of course, I believe my religion is the right religion. I believe what separates Christianity from other religions is Jesus and his commands to "love". He so loved us, so we should love others. Love your enemies. Forgive your enemies. Care about others, respect differences and diversity.


I am going to look for that story. It was something I just heard or read over the past week.

What do you think about Chavez speech? I thought it was kind of funny. Bush spends so much time demonizing hie enemies, always coming up with new names, like terrorists, terrorist regimes, extremist governments, axis of evil, fascist extremism, comparing his enemies to Lenin or Hitler. I just read an article that said if he receives intelligence Bin Ladin is in Pakistan, he is prepared to send troops into Pakistan. Even as Pakistan's leader continues to state US troops are not welcome within Pakistan.

Chavez calling Bush the devil is essentially exactly what Bush has been doing to his enemies for years, constantly demonizing them by his statements. Isn't the use of the term devil just talking to Bush like he has been talking about others.

And doesn't Bush just stir up hate and fear by his continuous villianization of his perceived enemies and his wars and threats of wars.

Sherri said...


The country was Nicaragua, where I read the Bush Administration was threatening actions not to cooperate if a government was elected headed by the Sandanista Party candidate Daniel Ortega. Threats are being made by US Ambassador Paul Trivelli. These are attempts by the US Bush Administration to control the outcome of a free election in a sovereign country. I found an article from The New Zealand Herald dated 09/06/06. There are probably other articles. I do not think this was the original article I read.

chuck said...


u r right to talk about religious wars of the christians, crusades, inquisition etc, that were made by god's name, but these wars were made in the middle ages. today, while every other civilization has managed to progress and move forward, most of the arab world insists on staying with the
middle-age's values and principles.

bush and chavez are not the first to talk about the devil and the axis of evil.
those who act in the name of islam, murdering people and calling it a holy war today and before the war in iraq and afgahnistan r, claim for many years that the USA is the great devil and that Israel is the small devil. the leaders that say so, speaking in the name of islam and god, r obviously seeking for political victories, but they do so by inciting the small people, the ileterate, those people that listen to the "words of god" with their eyes closed, blinded.
maybe islam doesn't preach for the killing of others, but the religious leaders call for action against infadles, and people listen to them.
when someone blows a bus full of people because he belives he will get 72 virgins in heaven becuase he killed those who don't believe in the profit of islam (u can see that in the pre-taped video that he his senders recorded with his words beeing said with the koraan in his hand), then there is not much to argue wether he was acting for political reasons or not. his reason r clear.

anyway, if islam realy doesn't preach for the killing of heretics, and peacfully calls for every religion to co excist, the how come so many islamists claim to operate in the name of god and the koraan ? and why isn't every religious leaders go out against these people and say that what they r doing is wrong ?
how come the koraan is so easily missinterpreted by people ? how can so many people be missled so easily and accidently think that they should kill others ?

why is it that jews, which r much more threatened then muslims in the world, don't missinterprete the old testement and declare holy war on other nations ?
and jews r being attacked all the time, by nazis, which excist today in different parts of the world including the US, by other kind of racists. u hear about jews attacked in france, in belgium, in germany, in turkey,
jews r being bad mouthed in newspapers,
and yet u don't see the jewish people going wild and call for the murder of those who bad mouthed them, u don't see the whole jewish community rising up against countries and burning their flags.

jews r the ones who live in an excistential threat all the time but yet it seems from all the calls and threats of the arab world, that arabs r the ones fighting for their life, against the jewish plan to take over the world.

why is it that arab leaders constantly argue against the "genocide" that Israel is doing against the palestinians, yet they manage to overlook the genocide in darfur ?
why is it that in afgahnistan, before the war, the taliban was masacering and destroying religious monuments of a different colture, as for being sacriliegous, and the arab world said nothing ?

did u hear about what is going on in the palestinian territories right now ? did u hear about the fights between fataha and the "chosen" government of hamas ?
fatah people r demonstrating against hamas. they r walking the streets crying about a massacre that hamas is provoking on the fatah people. hamas, the chosen government is trying to get read of the oposition, simply by killing it. killing fatah people that opose the hamas government.
and it is happening while there r conducting a so called talks about forming a united government with fatah.
do u still look at hamas as a legitimate government ? fighting against it's own people ?
a reporter asked one of the demonstrators of fatah if he believes that this fighting between the 2 organisations will escalate to a civil war, and the palestinian said that they r at civil war right now.

and ofcourse i forgot to mention that rockets still hit Israel each and every day, this is something that u probobly don't hear on u'r daily news, but in Israel we r still being bombed.

i hope i didn't confuze u, jumping from one issue to another.
it's just that it all combines eventually.
we feel that the arab world is using the palestinian-Israeli conflict as an excuse to attack Israel.
while ahmadinjad is claiming he has a wish to solve the palestinian issue, his way of solving it is simply the way of earasing Israel from the map. letting all the palestinians to return to their "homes" in Israel andthen letting the palestinians decide what to do with the country next is not a solution. and ahmadinjad is verry much aware of that. he knows that such a "solution" can only be achieved in a war, and this is exactly what he wants. so don't be fooled by his call for peace. it is not a sencere call for peace. this is what u call a wolf in a sheep's desguise.

Sherri said...


I cannot agree with your statement that Iran wants a war with Israel. Or that the Arab world is using the Palestinian-Israeli conflict as an excuse to attack Israel.

Do you realize these are very much two completely different statements? Iran is not Arab,it is Persian. Arab countries usually oppose Iran. And what Arab countries do you believe want to attack Israel? Are you referring to Syria? If so, who will be their other Arab allies? If Syria really desired war, then would it not have acted to further that goal during the Lebanese conflict?

I think Iran is attempting to use the Palestinian-Israeli conflict to proclaim itself as a power in the region. Perhaps a part of what they desire is just respect as a country that has invlolvement with the issue and someone who can contribute or be involved with solutions to the problem.

I think there is also a true genuine empathy with the plight of the Palestinians, that is reflected by the Iranian actions.

Concerning the Palestinian government, why does Israel or the US have to approve of their government? The US talks about the desire for democracies, but if people choose candidates they do not like, they refuse to recognize them or deal with them or even allow them to exist.

Look at what is happening. Because the Palestinians chose a government Israel refuses to allow them to have, Israel withholds Palestinian their own tax money and starves the people. Starving people to death. Arresting elected government officials. Killing people in escalating numbers. Increased human rights violations.

Is it not forseeable that such conditions would lead to fighting among the Palestinians? Perhaps that is exactly why Israel chose the actions they chose here. The more unrest and fighting and killing the Palestinians do to each other, the fewer there are left for Israel to take care of. And their unstable actions also undermine their cause.

Concerning suicide bombers and people throwing rockets from Gaza or the West Bank, they act as much out of desperation and hopelessness as anything else. And they are responding to specific aggressive acts of Israel. Actions to resist the destruction and oppression of their people by Israel. I do not even think it is fair to view the issue as a religious issue. It is about survival as a people and responses to threats to that survival.

chuck said...


r u joking ??
what kind of resolution does irantry to bring to the region ?? getting rid of all the jews in Israel ??
iran's contribution to the conflict ? yea, we felt that contribution all over the war with hizballa. and if it was still up to iran then this war would continue untill they would manage to confirm their "reslotution" to the conflict.

look, i don't think that the palestinians r in any position to put demands and ignor other governments. they r pushed to the wall, their people r suffring and the government is doing nothing to help the people. putting demands that r unreasonable and that it is obvious that Israel will never comply to, r just showing u that their government doesn't care about the people. they have their own fight with Israel and the engage this fight on the backs of the palestinian civilians.

u can say as much as u want that Israel is responsible, and i think that Israel do have a part of the responsibility, but the major responsibility is places upon the palestinian government. the more unreasonable demands that they put, the longer this conflict will continue.

Israel has already shown it's willingness to negotiate and the Israeli leaders declare everyday of their wish and even obligations to talk with the palestinians, but u can't talk with someone who says u don't exist and that calls for a fight against Israel untill Jerusalem will be the capitol of a palestinian state !
hamas realy cares about their people and realy wants peace and a palestinian state ? then drop the fulishness and start negotiating properly ! this game of saying that they have a right to keep the government and keep their stupid argument of not recognising ISrael just won't bring peace any further. and it is much more reasonable that the palestinians will drop this argument then that the Israeli government will adress this issue seriously.
and i don't get that claim of "people being desperate" as an excuse to firing rockets and sending suicide bombers. because if they r firing rockets then they don't wish for peace. and this is only happening because the hamas is encouraging it. if peace was realy their agenda then they would stop these atacks on the Israeli cities. these atacks only keeps the Israeli public and the government more legitimation to retaliate. and that includes kidnapping of ISraeli soldiers. it is just more provocation and those who will suffer from it eventually r the palestinians.

the way i see it from here, as for me being a part of the Israeli society,
is that the minute that the palestinians will show a little bit of real effort and desire for peace with us, there will be no more legitimacy for the Israeli army to attack the palestinian territories or for the government to put sanctions on them.

if the palestinians r worried about their survival then why r all the calls of their leaders to fight till every last palestinian is dead ? that doesn't sound like survival to me. it sounds more like self extermination.

chuck said...

this is an artickle about an accident that happened in ejypt to a tour bus of arab-Israelies, a few days right after the cease fire was declared in lebanon. this is somhow shows the state of mind of this whole area, and the difference between 2 societies that r supposed to be actually in terms of peace. and try to imagine what the state of mind is like in countries that don't have peace with Israel :



The date was 22 of August, not long after the cease fire declarartion (between Israel and Lebanon).
The media was filled with news of the horrors and this storry of the bus didn't catch a lot of headlines. Some of the politicians, as wel as some of the jousrnalists, preferred to keep a low profile and not to damage delicate relations, slaming doors at the palaces of the arab countries.
The families of the dead and wounded, that their pain was added the feeling of burning insault and a deep feeling that they r being ignored and their pain being taken lightly, march last week infront of the ejyptian consul's office in Tel-Aviv. The consul himself wasn't there at the time. After all of his efforts to cancel this demonstration did not succeed, he managed to leave his office an hour before the demonstration took place. The families had written a strong letter, and pointed their demands, but when they got to the ejyptian embassy they discovered there is no one to give it to.


Hamida hib (48) from mazraa, went to this trip with 3 sons: her older son, amir (21), her younger son hamudi (8), and her nephew haani (14). She came back from there without amir, that was killed in the crush.
Looking back, it seems to her like there were signs from all over about a disaster coming. The fact that she herself preferred a trip in Israel rather then a trip in ejypt, a feeling that wouldn't aloow her to enjoy the trip, the treetement of the local arabs, the wild behavior of the bus driver. Everything was moving towards the realization of the greatest nightmare she could have ever imagined.
"that was the first time that I had ever left the country (Israel)", she cries,"we went on a five days trip, thought we could rest a little bit after this war. My brother came to sharem (-a-sheikh) with his family 2 days before us and we thought we would spend some time together. But I couldn't enjoy, I don't know why. I just wanted to sit in my hotel room and listen to the news. I think I was just frightened from the ejyptian's attitude, I was afraid of an terrorist attack."
The bad feeling climaxed towards the end of the trip. "amir went to check the names list on which bus we r on and said we r on the first bus. I didn't want to go on their buses, they had a faul smell of dirt and I decided to wait till the last minute. Meanwhile I was watching from aside. I saw this man, pretty young, standing against a wall and seemed to be verry suspiciously agitated. Turned out this was the driver. He was checking the passengers and seemed to be angry. When we went on the bus he was yelling at us without a stop, telling us to sit down, keep quiet. A kid spilled some milk and the mother took some paper towls from the side of the driver and wiped it off the sit. The driver was yelling at her that she is a thief and continued to shout at all of us 'dirty thiefs, u r not arabs, u r jewish garbage'.


"I told the people not to answer him, he needed to take us all the way to the border with Israel, and we don't want him to get nervous, but he was probably already nervous and driving wildly. When we asked him to turn the air condition on he said 'patiance, u will soon be terminaly cool'. The more I think about what happened the more I think this was an attack, a pre-meditated crush. At some point we all fell asleep. I was awakened because of the rocking and I felt like I'm inside a cement blender. We weren't far away from nueiba, in the road on the right there was a wall, and on the left there was a down hill and we were flyin 160 k'mh. I looked at the driver and noticed he was checking us in through the mirror. One hand of his was on the window and with the other hand he was eating nuts. That moment amir woke up, realized what was going on and told me 'mother, we r about to have an accident'. He got up of his chair and started walking to the driver, and that moment the we all turned over.
The bus was flipping to the side. Hamida hib was one of those who were tossed out of the bus through the big windows. The bus continued to roll down the hill into 40 meters. "I was thrown out and immediately started looking for the kids. Hamudi was next to me, and so was haani.. I didn't see amir. We looded down, waiting for the bus to stop rolling and se who will come out of there. I felt my hand was ripped out of my body, it was separated from the sholder and was like hanging by skin. I had truble to breath, later it turned out that my lung was raptured. I saw a woman I know that was looking around the wounded and called her to look for my amir. She shouted back 'there he is, u don't have to worry about him, he is fine'. He was coming towards us, he was without any mark. He looked fine, not even a scratch. He was worried about us, asked if we r allright."


Meanwhile arrived the second bus, which on it was the brother of hib and his family. The next car was a closed truck for transporting vegetables and on it the wounded were loaded on the way to the hospital in nueiba. Hamida hib: "they call it a hospital. It's a neglected building, almost with no beds and the beds there r covered with rust, and the mattresses r stained with dry blood. Amir said that his belly hurts, but my situation worried him more. I told him I'm fine. I sat the children down on the stained matresse and started looking around for a doctor or a nurse, someone to pay attention to us. I finaly found a doctor, they did an x-ray with an old machine, maybe from the days of the (british) mandate, and sent me without any document. I gave the children to someone with dirty uniform who said he was a doctor. He didn't do any x-ray to amir, although the boy said he was constantly in pain, maybe he had an inside bleeding.
I told the doctor and he said 'patiance, patience, why r u in such a hurry ?'
Meanwhile the hours went by, amir's condition became worse. He was getting up and return to lay down, saying he has no strength. And they, they did nothing. Didn't check his blood, didn't give him any oxegen, nothing. The boy was like a drag, when they decided to take him to the hospital in sharem. But then they couldn't find an ambulance driver. Hamudi started crying 'mother, mother, amir is going to die'.
I clamed hamidi down, went out with him and when I came back I found amir without breath.
I started crying, they came and took him away and vanished. Us, all the Israelies, they through out of the hospital. The time was already 8 in the evening, about 4 hours after the accident happened. We were looking for someone to take us across the border. The ejyptians were sitting there with hands crossed and I'm going between them, begging with tears to take us to the border. They asked, ' do u have money ?' and then it turned out that we have no money and no passports, somebody took everything.
By couincidence, an arab from nazarath passed by, I recognized by his accent that he is Israeli. I said to him 'u r from our country, like family, not like the ejyptian enemy. Help us'. He asked someone to take us, payed the over saked price that they demanded, 400 gine, and that's how we managed to get to the taba post (on the border).


The Israeli ambulances were waiting on the other side of the border for hours, waiting to take the wounded to the yoseftal hospital in eilat. From there 25 people were flown to soroqa hospital in beer-sheva and asaf harofe in zerifin.
"we were driving in a car fool of blood. We were all wounded. When we got to the ejyptian border there was cheos again. They were asking for our pasports and we explained that we don't have them. The ejyptians insisted. Infront of us, in a distance of 30 meters, on the Israeli side, we sow the ambulance waiting for us. One of the ejyptian soldiers said to me, 'go on, crowl to the ambulance' and I couldn't even crawl.
I could hardly breath. The ejyptian started kicking us. An Israeli officer came and started an argument with the ejyptian. The ejypyian said he won't allow us to move until he sees our passports, and shouted to the Israeli 'what do u care ? they r just arabs.' The Israeli said: there is no difference, they r Israeli citizens and we will take care of them as they need.' Our sould went out until we moved to the Israeli ambulance, and I fel I owe my life to the people of the life savers organization. When we were already in yoseftal they called for a lung specialist for me, and he arrived especially by helicopter. In the end they tranfered me to the hospital in naharia for continuing the treetement. My family members started looking for amir, they couldn't believe he was dead, my brother told them that he ow amir standing and in good health, walking on his feet.."
After searching the hospitals of sharem and nueiba, amir's body was found in the coolers of the nueiba hospital.
People still come to the house to wheep. The neeses and the nurse that takes care of hamida and her husband fawaz. Friend cry with hamida over the disaster.

after the funeral of amir, his parents couldn't stay at their house. Hamida's brothers moved them to to another house far away from the cemetery and the house where amir was born and raised. His father, fawaz, says: "people should know about the treetement that Israeli-arabs getin ejypt. In Israel there r good values, there is respect to human life, people should spend their vacations in Israeland not search for adventures in arab countries."
Hib: "I didn't even wanted to go there, I don't believe in the ejyptians, don't like their hospitality. These people have no respect for human life, no respect. The ejyptians r the ones who killed my boy, by looking at him wounded and not giving help. I will have no rest until I get answers to my questions: why did the driver of the bus get 12 months imprisonment only, and how did they judge him without taking the main side into concideration, the main side is us. How many dollars did this man get in order to destroy so many homes in Israel ? why did my son had to wait for 4 precious hours before anyone would take care of him, why didn't they transfer him across the border, why didn't they let the Israeli ambulances to get into ejypt if they knew that their medical capabilities aspire to zero ? why do they build hotels of 5 stars and up, and they don't have any reasonable infirmary in a reasonable distance ? and eventually, when we get to their consul in Israel, they start throwing stuff at us through the windows. And why doesn't it concerns any arab government member in Israel, beside nadia hilo, the only one who helped us ? these politicians which were chosen by us, didn't even come to join our demonstration and din't pick up a phone to ask us how we r doing. Each and everyone of them wants to keep his chair in Beirut, aman and damaskus. We will remember that in the next elections. We will not keep silent. This week we had a meeting, we chose a small comite, a representative of each village (mazraa, kefar manda, kefar reina, kefar eilot, gilabun) and we will continue our fight.

Sherri said...


This is what I would like to see.
The next time Israel threatens to destroy a Palestinian home in response to some individual Palestinian's actions such as a suicide bombing that killed the person responsible, I want to see thousands of people standing in and around that home refusing to leave and hundreds of cameras aimed at the site.

What will Israel do?

I would like to see demonstrations of nonviolent opposition to the oppressive Israeli practices that Israel subjects Palestinains to everyday and extensive media coverage of it.

I want to see pictures on my TV screen of the ordinary people in Gaza and the West Bank who are suffering everyday. I want to hear their stories. I do not want a media who covers up their suffering and pain and keeps a genicide of a people secret and hidden from the public.

I would like to see justice. I know that that is too much to expect from this world we live in. But I will continue to seek it, Sherri

chuck said...


well, this is what i would like to see:

i would like to see the palestinians arresting people who r about to commite a suicide attack among Israeli citisens.

i would like to see the palestinians stopping to build tunnels in order to hurt Israelis. palestinians stop shooting on Israeli roads on civilian cars that pass by, hitting whole families.

i would like to stop seeing palestinians giving away candy, dancing in the streets and praising god whenever they hear about an Israeli men wemen or childeren that r killed.

i would like to see a palestinian leadership that is willing to negotiate and talk about compromises in order to acheive peace with Israel.

i would like to see the palestinians change their childerens education and turn it from a hatefull system that preaches for the destruction of Israel to a peacloving system that talks about a life in peace with the Israeli neighbours.

i would like to se the palestinians stop feeling it's a national holiday whenever a palestinian kid goes and blows himself up in a bus full of Israeli civilians.

i would like to see the people of gaza without needing to hear that the reporter that was covering the story about those people was kidnaped by extremist group, and is being threatend to be executed.

i would like to be able to go around the world without being called by names, or called a palestinian killer, or being threatend to be beaten by crazy fanatics.

i would like to have justice too, but u know, there is a saying in hebrew that mentions jupiter, which is called "justice" in hebrew.
it says, sometimes "justice" is only a star...

chuck said...

ho, and another thing i forgot, silly me.

i'v been mentioning the rockets that the palestinians fire onto Israel every single day. the international news channels doesn't cover this story. hell, even in Israel this is like a daily news, evey opening of a news report starts with a rocket that landed in an Israeli city. today a rockete almost killed the mayor of the city Sderot, which is less then 2 hours away from tel-aviv. the rockete exploded infront of his house, nearly killing him and his family, and ofcourse others who were in the street.

and the palestinian "chosen" prime minister declared in a holiday convention of the hamas movment, that he will not negotiate with Israel and refuses to recognise Israel for being a state (this was followed with the calls "with blood and fire we will take palestine").
he also said a few days before that if abu-mazen, the palestinian president, decided to have new elections for the government, then there will be bigger riots and fighting of hamas against fatah people.

sherri, u r so eager to talk about the malefunction of bush's democracy and praise the palestinian democracy, and the hamas government as for being the chosen government of the palestinian people.
i think that if people were killing each other on the streets of manhaten, and on the front lawn of the white house, in a civil war that was driven by the government against those who opose the government, then bush would be kicked out the next day, or even the same day.