Thursday, November 30, 2006

On The Streets Friday

Update 3: Just got news that guns were fired in Beirut in support of Seniora's speech. This was in return for guns fired in Dahieh in support of Nasrallah's speech this morning. (Naharnet claims they're fireworks)

Update 2: I didn't get the chance to listen in on PM Seniora's speech live (which I will do at 8PM Eastern time), but for now this is what Naharnet has posted:

Prime Minister Fouad Saniora vowed on Thursday that his government will fight attempts to bring back foreign tutelage on Lebanon. Saniora also urged the Lebanese to stand by the “legitimate” government, adding that the only way to bring down the cabinet is through parliament.

Update: PM Seniora will be addressing the Lebanese at 8PM Lebanese time, which is 1PM Eastern time.
*********************************************************************************
Okay, they called for the open demonstrations starting tomorrow Friday in downtown Beirut!

Sayyid Nasrallah in a televised address called on all Lebanese to join Hizbullah in protesting against the current government. What struck me most was his claim that the government did not do much since it took power. I wonder why? The war this summer?...

And then Najah Wakim was dug out from hybernation and suddenly was on TV calling on civil servants to stop taking orders from the government, when the Opposition signals the beginning of such a move. He added that this move will ensure the success of toppling the government.

I never knew that Lahoud liked Najah Wakim and chatted together on peaceful strategies of demonstrating.

But at any rate, if I was back home I would fight to not allow this government to be toppled. It's not about any particular minister in the government or the Prime Minister, but it's more symbolic than that. At a much younger age, populism was attractive. But now, I see "one-color" populism, a la Aoun and Hizbullah, appalling!

It's challenging being diplomatic at this time. I don't feel that I need to appease anyone by being more conciliatory. Perhaps because March 14 adopted a conciliatory attitude since the Syrians left the country, we are losing power. Remember the overtures from March 14 towards Aoun to join them for elections? And then after everything that happened, PM Seniora's overtures to Aoun to take part in the government? What about coopting Hizbullah and Amal all along? We did not see any good will coming from them, least of which is supporting the tribunal. What about the dialogue sessions, which were a farce, because Hizbullah went ahead and decided to hijack the country's foreign policy? The list can go and on...

What do they want? Do they want a March 14 force that is of one color? Of one sect or two? Would they respect us more if we carried arms? If we used threats? If our Prime Minister insulted heads of states? Or wore an army fatigue?

I should stop here!

"Nobody knows how many rebellions, besides political rebellions, ferment in the masses of life which people earth."

37 comments:

march14yuppi said...

whining whining whining ...
hehehe do you even believe your self when you say "I don't feel that I need to appease anyone by being more conciliatory".

More conceliatory ? You ? Doha ?

May I remind you that you , not march 14, not anyone, have been repeating the same broken record blaming every single event on Aoun since day one. (including the latest war in your silly fall guy post)
You have never been conciliatory and you never even tried to, at least that's what your blog shown.

You can write alright, but can you at least read your own blog ?

Arnold Evans said...

It seems to me that Shiites especially and Muslims overall are underrepresented in Lebanese political power and March 14, with the encouragement of the US, France and Israel are fighting just to maintain an unfair political advantage.

Doha said...

march14yuppi,

Wow! you really make of me a monster! really? you think that not March 14, nor anyone has been repeating the same broken record that Aoun is losing his mind.

listen, i don't have a following, so i can say what i want and you can go read someone else's blog if this bothers you. and now more than ever, i'll say it, "I can't stand Aoun and this was not how i felt when he first showed up to the country." if you're interested, you can go back to when he arrived to the country and read our thoughts. i carry no baggage from the civil war; i was a kid then. but i judge what i see and i don't speak for anyone, nor get paid to speak for anyone; i speak my mind and i think i have the right to! yesterday's press conference at rabieh did it for me!

JoseyWales said...

Seniora speech:

Let me guess "Let's have more talks"? Maybe Berri can come up with another screwed up forum for talks, and March 14 will continue to kiss his ass.

As to all parties, all these morons on both sides are represented in parliament: talk there you freaks.

In normal sane countries: demos and sit-ins are for marginal groups, outside the political process.

Doha said...

JW,

I did mention it in my previous post that Seniora's repeated calls for more dialogue is useless, because dialogue did not get the country anywhere. But then what should be the solution?

JoseyWales said...

Doha,

I know you want action too.

What to do: don't be weak, attack HA and Aoun verbally, try to split the alliance Berri-HA-Aoun, USE the instrunments of power (Army, police, TV, radio, projects,...) to assert your authority instead of begging and doing nothing.

Get the economic associations strongly and vocally on your side etc.....

Today is a prime example: Seniora ought to say: my orders to the army are so and so. Instead, we get word from the army commander and it looks like he is the one in charge.

march14yuppi said...

Making you a monster? Oh come on, off with the drama, you're just a regular Aoun basher.
Of course you have all the right to speak your mind and no one is trying to stop you.

The broken record, specific to you, is of blaming everything on Aoun, for example, the summer war, even Furture TV did not blame it on Aoun but you did in your post "Aoun: The Fall Guy".
Hell even when during the war he decided it was better for Lebanon to put differences with the government aside and 100% back the government (a move praised by Siniora) , you managed to nag and try to turn it against him by saying "wouldn't his endorsement of the government right now be a contradiction to what he has been saying all along, including calls to overthrow the Cabinet?"

You say "if you're interested, you can go back to when he arrived to the country and read our thoughts".
Fine , I'll try to go back and read your thoughts. He came back in May 2005 if I am not mistaken, right?
So let's see, here is your post from May 25, 2005 We Don't Need An Alexander!

I quote you "He's extreme, unwilling to compromise, and frankly has a military background and wants to field runners up to Parliament who are of military background as well. He is reminding me of Lahoud when he assumed the Presidency"

So that's when your Aoun bashing began, the same month he came back to Lebanon. ;-)
If that's how you (and maybe march 14?) have been appeasing and conciliatory ... I really don't want to see when you're not.

Also of interest while browsing the archives I read in one of your posts (2005-06-04) about your "anger and pain" because of the March 14th deal with Hizballah and Amal , the deal that guaranteed Berri's chair as leader of parliament (among other things) luckily that anger and pain soon vanished ... you know , because you can always blame Aoun's for everything.

Anonymous said...

These people do not understand dialogue or negotiation. Their idea of negotiating is "my way or the highway". There is no sense in bending over backwards for them. These people only understand the use of force. I'm normally about as pacifist as you can find, but I've had enough.
Declare marshall law, arrest all these morons and charge them with treason and throw them in jail. Time to crack the whip and reclaim Lebanon.

Doha said...

I'm impressed yuppie with your browsing skills and feel somewhat flattered that my posts are being analyzed so closely!

This is what I wrote on May 4th:
"A number of news items that are refreshing...:

A Beirut court cleared General Aoun from all political and financial charges clearing the way for his return to Beirut unmolested Saturday."

Listen, I have to say that the day he arrived I was excited. I held a cell phone in my hand early, early morning Eastern time for a friend to hear Aoun's speech.

This is what I wrote on the 16th of May, 05:

"...Aoun upon his arrival to Lebanon last week asked everyone not to fall for the trivialities of the election rhetoric; he was armed with a reform program. I was so eager to learn more about that program, but alas all that I heard since then was basically threats to sue those who wasted public funds during the past 15 years and only to see him yesterday fall into the trap of talking "trivialities" of elections. I must say I am disappointed; when I thought Aoun would be different than the others on the political arena, I realized that he is just the same."

So you see, you're being selective in what you've been browsing. I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt, until his Alexander story!

I used to protest alongside FPMers and many others in AUB against the Syrian tutelage. I also stood side by side FPMers when Hariri died. The sad story was how we celebrated Lebanon's independence day (end of April '05, and you can see a post on it), and FPMers did not attend because things were getting polarized. It was sad.

I don't think FPMers have different notions than me of how our country should be, but Aoun is compromising all that. That's why as you notice I don't use FPM anymore, I just say Aoun.

Doha said...

JW,

You should be President :)

Doha said...

Yuppie,

By the way, I did not write Aoun: The Fall Guy, it was Raja posting it on behalf of a friend who sent him an email. PLEASE READ CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU JUDGE PEOPLE!

3li- said...

Yep.JW should be president; give an order to the army to arrest the leaders of more than half the country, split the army into two, or three or four entities, and start a real civil war then.

The mass dems will paralyze the country and bring down the government. It is just a question of which National Unity government will take its place.

Doha said...

When I said JW should be President, I was being sarcastic. At least he has some ideas, unlike our defunct President!

3li- said...

Doha,

At least try to be a little objective here..

Are you sure the firing from the pro-gov't side was only in response to the firing from the pro-opposition side? Do those who fire even hear each other? Or are you advocating, a-la-Israeli gov't vis-a-vis the Palestinians, that March 14 gov't only "retaliates" thus being morally right?

Also, to quote Naharnet that Senora, "vowed on Thursday that his government will fight attempts to bring back foreign tutelage on Lebanon" therein adopting his claim that the proposed demonstrations are not reflective of actual grievances by Lebanese people but are only a front for foreign powers to take over Lebanon through Lebanese agents is a bit much on the partisanship side.

If enlightened followers like you can be this blind and gullible, then it would be too much to ask of the average person in Lebanon, steeped and reared in the sectarian swamps, to be a little more nuanced in the way they read, analyze and react to events on the ground.

Doha said...

alghadab,

the problem is that the protests are not about people's grievances, they are about political groups who want power.

what are the slogans driving tomorro's protests? not reconstruction after the war, not workers' rights or labor standards, not high fuel prices, not electricity problems. none of that!

let's not be blind here; it's unfortunately not about the poeple. it's about an existential issue here for the country.

what upsets me about demonstrating, from both march 14 and march 8 sides, is that people don't have money to fill up gas to head to Beirut. so all this political money gets poured on to provide transportation for demonstrators. people have lives to live and our country is on the brink of bankruptcy.

Omega80 said...

Stop your propaganda rubbish. Only you have the right to demonstrate right? All others in Lebanon are demons running arlight sah?

Every single person in this government has been a pro-Syrian since day one, now they have recycled themselves because it is to their benefit and you fell for it.

They told Aoun they would only give him 5 seats in Parliament back in 2005, and he was expected to go for it? Let them know once and for all that Lebanon is not Saudi Arabia and will never be ruled by one family. Power to the People and the real Anti-Syrians in Lebanon...Bring down this corrupt government that is just as corrupt as Omar Karami's government!

Doha said...

i frankly do not know who fired the shots, but shots were fired this morning...just speculating. and any firing is not morally right, from any side.

Doha said...

omega80,

stop YOUR propaganda rubbish!

Doha said...

REAL anti-syrians????!!! so tomorrow's demonstration is about overthrowing a pro-Syrian government???!!

Please explain to me how you're demonstrating alongside SSNP then?

3li- said...

Doha,

This is first and foremost a turning point for Lebanon.

If we do not agree on who we are and where we are heading as a country and decide once and for all where we stand vis-à-vis the region and the world, then all the economic ills you list will be a moot point. Much of the construction money BTY, is now being used politically to punish or reward individuals depending on their political viewpoint. So you see that our economic problems and gov't efficiency is being subsumed by the polarized political reality. Only a political solution can save the country right now.

There are Lebanese, most of whom are demonstrating tomorrow, who see this gov't as unrepresentative of all the viewpoint in Lebanon during a crucial time in Lebanon's history and would like a say in the direction this country is going.

If the March 14 crowd will not acknowledge that much and agree on a national unity gov't then the size of the opposition will render this gov't irrelevant. It is as simple as that.

What options does the gov't have? Oppress them? Throw thousands into jails?

The minute the dems start it is over. It is unfortunate it had to come to that, but something has to give...

Anonymous said...

AlGhaddab,

You claim that the lebanese demonstrating tomorrow are doing it because they view this government as unrepresentative, and because they want a say in the direction the country is going.

The truth of it is, these Lebanese are demonstrating because their religious leader told them to. No more, no less. If Nasrallah told them tomorrow that he was happy with the government, they would stop dead in their tracks.
You depict this as a group of people exercising their free will. I disagree. These people are following a leader blindly. That's about as far from free will as you can get.

They have every right to voice their opposition to the government, and to ask for a say so in the direction this country is headed for. It's called elections. That is how democracy works. You elect representatives who push your ambitions and desires into government. And if you lose said elections, you have to wait till the next elections and try again. That's how it works in France, England, the US and every other civilized democracy this side of Timbuktu.

The Lebanese people have a LOT to learn about the meaning of Democracy. Democracy means respect of the state's insitutions. And respect for laws and rules, including the rule that says when you lose an election, the winner gets to run the country. These childish neanderthal ideas that "everyone gets to rule together" do not work and never have and never will. A country is not run by concensus.

When Lebanese learn that, then I'd get right behind you statement that "these are people who want a say in the directon this country is taking". Until then, I call bullshit!

JoseyWales said...

Ghadab Guy,

I never said shoot people and arrest leaders just like that.

I said Seniora should act like as a PM which means using the instruments at his disposal legally and to apply the law.

Here we go now, people shooting guns in the streets, on both sides. I want the authorities to show force, arrest these people, and signal to all that infractions will not be tolerated.

Show weakness and then you'll have a bloodbath on your hands, God forbid.

In a more general sense the Syrians and HA have ignored Seniora and insulted him because he is weak (and visionless). He's weak, he can't or won't act, catch 22...

Arabgirl said...

Alghadab, omega and all those who want to topple the government tomorrow I say:
1- If you think that the country's economy wasn't moving forward before the July war, you are big fat liars. Read all the economical and financial analysis and you will know who is not helping the country financially. And of course, as the first war was at the beginning of the summer, this coup d'etat is on the eve of Christmas and New Year's Eve. You are all ruinning my country and I despise you esp the FPM people for that.
2- Did you want to be represented in the government? You had your share (the shia people) and Aoun refused to take part of thisgovernment because he wasn't gonna be assigned defense minister. Talk about Napoleonism..
3- What is it in the political agenda of this government that you don't like? The tribunal? Paris-3? What is it in March 14 that you don't like? Throwing out Lahoud? FPM people, what is it that you don't like? Can't you understand that apart from you, nobody likes Aoun?
4- FPM people, I was in a discussion with one of your faithful followers today, and he claimed that the chritians should not be in March 14 alliance because they are the tail.. all they had was the tourism minister ( sarcastically put). So for FPM followers, all the christians are LF. Rizk, Murr, Pharaon, late Gemayel..are buddhists. Talk about sectarians...
5- For once I am so proud of my prime minister, my government, my army and I pray that nothing will happen tomorrow to harm them.

3li- said...

Bad Vilbel,

The same can be said of the March 14 followers. People swear allegiance for different reasons. I am not going to discuss those right now. This arguement is applicable to all political parties and groups.

Thanks for the democracy lesson. But I recall, at least in two of the cases you cite as representative democracy, England and France, along with a few others including Israel, Canada, Australia, etc…, that a government can be made to resign and new elections be held if a vote of no confidence can be brought against it.

If the protestations of the more than half the electorate is not a vote of no confidence to your ears, then hang on to the “technically we won” argument. The opposition will also use their democratic right to leave the government and to peacefully protest. Is it undemocratic to so in your eyes? Is there a law against it? Can you bring gov’t officials to work by force?

Let’s face it. Lebanon needs a new gov’t reformulation that will find a compromise everyone agrees with, including more secular modifications and amendments to the laws to reflect the reality on the ground. You cannot force a people to be part of a gov’t they have determined does not represent them. To do so would be undemocratic.

Arabgirl said...

And another comment for FPM people..

It's been 3 days in a row that your site is maintaining as its headline the story about the presumed LF people.. The event happened on Monday, and you still have it until today as a front story. It's not even confirmed, the army denied it ( General Sleiman confirmed that the whole story is simply not true), but still you kept it on the front page. You relied on rumors to build the whole story..
Whereas you didn't even mention up until now anyhting about the 200 terrorists possibly infiltrated in Lebanon coming form Syria...True, these reports might not be official 100% but neither was the LF story.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
You are concealing facts while highlighting others. What side are you 'real antisyrians'????

RM said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
RM said...

ghadab

whatever argument you may have this gvt will not let go without force unless it is chnage from parliament. full stop.

you speak about democracy? was this summer war democratic? how? who was consulted? please do respect the intelligence of people at least before you type your garbage.

3li- said...

Ramzi,

You want a conversation or do you want to pull an O'Reily on me?

Let go of the unpleasant descriptions of arguments you do not agree with. Unless your goal is to instigate me into a shouting match.

I disagreed with HA on their operation back in July. It legitimized all the arguments and fears of the other groups in Lebanon.

On the other hand, I do not agree under the current conditions that HA should just give up its weapons. States spend billions on equipment and expertise in military warfare and intelligence at which HA proved very adept.

As a Lebanese, I want to see a strong, representative gov't that has the trust of the majority of the Lebanese, and one that can incorporate HA and its capabilities as part of a Defense Plan for Lebanon, under the direct authority of the Lebanese gov't, until regional conditions change. We still have 1/2 million Palestinians in our midst. The whole area is very volatile.

I do respect your intelligence. Just do not belittle my arguments either.

I disagreed with HA on their operation back in July. It legitimized all the arguments and fears of the other groups in Lebanon.

On the other hand, I do not agree that, under the current conditions, that HA should just give up its weapons. States spend billions on equipment and expertise in military warefare and intelligence at which HA proved very adept.

As a Lebanese, I want to see a strong, representative gov't that has the trust of the majority of the Lebanese, and one that can incorporate HA and its capabilities as part of a Defense Plan for Lebanon, under the direct authoruty of the Lebanese gov't, until regional conditions change. We still have 1/2 million Palestinians in our midst. The whole area is very volatile.

I do respect your intelligence. Just do not belittle my arguments either.

Anonymous said...

Al Ghaddab,

1) Yes. The argument does apply to March 14 too. I am aware that a lot of them pledge their loyalties to leaders based entirely on sectarian and personal affiliation (rather than a cause or platform). And i stand by my argument: As long as the mentality is that way across the board, we do not have democracy.

2) Yes. A vote of no confidence. That is conducted in parliament. Siniora said that parliament is the only way to take down the government. And that is the law. You are agreeing with him on this one. What do mass protests have to do with any of this? You guys can go ahead and bring a vote of no confidence to the parliament if you like. And if you have the majority in parliament, on that vote, then by all means, let the government go. That's democracy. Threatening to remove the government by any means necessary (again, Nasrallah's own words) is not democracy.

3) First off how do you know your protests are "half the electorate"? There is no lawful way of counting the people who show up. That's why we have elections. That's the correct way to count the electorate and what they want. That system is not perfect, by any means (i'm personally partial to referendums, and direct popular vote, when it comes to big decisions), but for now, we have a set of rules in the constitution, and that's how we should go about doing things. This goes back to my comment about respect for the state and it's institutions. You can't claim to respect the state, and then turn around and ignore the rules when it suits you. Either we ALL follow the constitution. Or we don't, and we can have Somalia on our hands (no government, no laws, total anarchy). It's really that simple. You can't pick and choose which rules you want to follow and which ones you wanna ignore. Lebanese have been doing just that for decades now, which is exactly why i say that until that mentality changes, we won't ever have democracy.

4) I agree. Lebanon needs a new system altogether. But the way to achieve this goal is through constitutional means. Not through furthering the personal ambitions of Aoun, or the Syrian and Iranian agendas.

3li- said...

I copied the post twice..

My apologies.

Omega80 said...

Doha,
Stop bringing up the SSNP, we are not going to let them hijack our cause. They are nothing and a bunch of nobodies running around. What kind of threat are they? Stop making them to be this all powerful force that is a threat to our country. The real threat is the thieves in power who have done nothing for this country.

They lick Syria's boots when they are in the country, then turn against them when they are pretty much gone. How heroic!

Lebanon can't and won't be rule by one family, ever. Some have tried in the past and failed. This is not about Syria, February 14 is trying to turn it into that to cover their asses. However, Syria is gone and won't come back. Yes they still have a presence here, but if they really cared about that they wouldn't have agreed to let Lahoud stay. Can you believe it, Lahoud's ministers were more welcome in the Cabinet than any FPMers, now if that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what will.

Isn't this government the one that released a ministerial statement saying that Hezbollah is a legitimate resistance? Now they changed their minds? Well with these flip-floppers, im not suprised. Their only and main concern is to preserve their power, whether that means allying with Syria for decades then turning against them, or allying with Hezbollah then turning against them. They are in a corner with no where left to hide.

How disgusting is it that some are calling this an Iranian coup. FPMers have suffered the most under the Syrians while Feb. 14 gang was sipping wine with Ghazi Kanaan deciding who is going to own parts Liban Cell and Cellis. So do you really think that FPMers want Syrian influence back? We just don't want Anjar to be replaced by something else, which is the case today.

This government will fall because this ruling Mafia can no longer stay in power. Why not ask Walid Jumblat where the hundreds of millions, if not billions, are from the Ministry of the Displaced?

Come on you're wiser than this. Tomorrow is a Lebanese demonstration dealing with Lebanese issues, PERIOD.

The faster you accept this fact, the easier life on all of us Lebanese will be.

3li- said...

Bad Vilel,

As long as you believe that the opposition is simply about personal ambitions and external meddling in Lebanon’s affaires, then it will be hard to converse reasonably.

Is it possible in you view that the Shia, and the Aounists and other allies, could have other genuine political and economic grievances other than being either power grabbers or foreign agents? Could they possibly be normal patriotic people who care about their country and where it is going?

After all, Nasrallah did not advocate toppling the gov’t so that he can occupy it. He has simply asked to be included along with the other groups in a meaningful way. You say he is side-stepping the current laws and the constitution. Fine. But is he doing anything illegal? Where is he or his followers technically breaking the law?

Anonymous said...

Omega80,

Your heart might be in the right place (or you might be full of it, I don't know). All the issues you bring up are valid. But I think you (I assume you're an FPM'er) are letting people manipulate you (namely Syria/Iran and your own General) to achieve their goals.

You want to talk about flip flopping? Go re-read some of Aoun's statements going back to per 1559. And then compare those statements to the stuff he started spewing after he came back to Lebanon. He talked about disarming Hezbollah (as well as other armed factions). He spoke about all sorts of things. And now he's saying the exact opposite because it suits him.

You're right, FPM'ers sacrificed a lot over the years, pre-2005. That's admirable. Those sacrifices shouldn't be allowed to go to waste today. Don't let someone's burning desire for the presidency sell your soul and that of your brothers and sisters to the devil himself. Hold your leaders accountable, including Aoun. Hold him accountable to all the things he said, back in the 80s and 90s. Hold him accountable for his flip-flopping.

We all want a sovereign Lebanon.

But you have to ask yourself. Is your loyalty to Aoun blinding you to what is really going on? Are you REALLY all of a sudden on the same principles of hezbollah now? Where on earth did that come from? Do you honestly think starting wars with Israel have Lebanon's interest at heart? Do you really think hezbollah wants to topple the government because it has a better secular platform? Or do they have an agenda? How long have you lived in Lebanon to actually fall for these lies?
THEY ALL LIE!

Anonymous said...

Al Ghaddab,

I believe there are a lot of patriots in the rank and file of both hezbollah and FPM. I believe these people are being mislead and misguided by their leaders.

I look at facts, and I use common logic to see the pattern of deception and obstructionism. I'm not making this stuff up. The facts are very plain to see:

- Hezbollah WAS ALREADY INCLUDED IN THE GOVERNMENT. So you can't tell me they just want participation. They quit the government because of the international tribunal. They've been wanting to torpedo that tribunal. They pretty much presented an ultimatum that they should be given enough ministers to have veto power. I.e. they want to CONTROL the government. Not just participate (They already had participation).
Considering they are not a majority in parliament, i don't see why they should be given over a third of government.

Aoun was offered participation in government, back in the day. he refused because he also wanted veto power. Sorry. You don't get to make those demands, General, and then claim you were not included.

Hezbollah started a war with Israel. Unprovoked. That is not democratic, for starters (The rest of Lebanon was not consulted) and certainly did not do anything to advance the cause of Lebanon anywhere. If you can't see that, I don't know how to convince you. That right there was CLEARLY foreign agendas at work.

I am not saying that protests are illegal. You can protest all you want. That's fine.
I'm choosing to look at the bigger picture here. Last year, HA walked out of government because they didn't get their way.
Then they walked out of the national dialogue when they didn't get their way.
Then they walked out of government again.
Then they walked out of the hiwar again.
Now they want to protest and overthrow the government (at any cost, according to Nasrallah). Which means if the protests don't work, he's gonna take it another step, that may be illegal.

What i'm seeing here is a pattern of obstructionism. This is the equivalent of the kid who takes the ball everytime he thinks he's losing the game and says "I'm taking my ball and going home unless you let me win." I don't see how you expect to build a solid Lebanon like that. HA and Aoun are going to continue to do this where they make demands and then walk out if those demands aren't met.
To me that's not dialogue. That's blackmail. In dialogue, you meet the other party halfway. HA and Aoun have not done that.

So i go back to the rule of the majority: When they win a majority in parliament (which would reflect the majority of the lebanese people), let them control the government, pass all the laws they want, and they dont even have to include a single march 14 minister if they don't want to. Until then, shut the fuck up and stop taking the ball away from the other players.

march14yuppi said...

Doha ...
The post was posted by Admin AND has the same signature (the Charlotte Bronte quote) you use in every single one of your others posts. Plus you showed up in the post discussion and not raja.
I suppose Raja could have been trying to hide himself and impersonate you ... in that case, my mistake, sorry :-)


bad vibel,
About "the rule of the majority" , when they vote a new electoral law not handed to them by the Syrians, I would not mind them doing anything they like as a majority. The only reason they are a majority is because they used a rigged electoral law and I would be willing to live with that if they had changed the law in the first years as they promised.

When they were asking us to vote for them, they said their top priority was to get a new fair electoral law. Now over a year later, they are giving reasons (or excuses) about why they changed their priorities ...

Why would I or anyone expect the opposition to wait for them in order to create a new electoral law in the 11th hour when it will be too late to do anything about it? They did it in 2005 and only a stupid would let them do it again in 2009.

Also I love the part where "he's gonna take it another step, that may be illegal." While you are at it, can I have next week's lottery numbers too ?

march14yuppi said...

Also Bad Vibel,
I believe you are asking this in good faith so here is your answer:

"First off how do you know your protests are "half the electorate"? There is no lawful way of counting the people who show up. That's why we have elections."

I think the number he is refering too is the number of votes the opposition got in the election and not the number of people in the demonstrations.

However because of the crappy election law, half the votes amount to less than 40% representation in parliament. That must be changed.

Doha said...

yuppie,

the quote is like a template and then raja deletes it, so he didn't. and no raja does not write posts to impersonate me and does not hide. we both have our own minds and styles as you notice.