Thursday, November 24, 2005

In response....Hizbollah

Hi Raja, I'm glad you have developed this blog. I read it often and I have come to learn that you've built a suitable ground for healthy debates even if some are from programmer Craig.Hizballah does need to behave more responsibly for it is alienating the Lebanese public especially when battles are flared on a time like Lebanon's independence day. However, you can't compare the actions of the US to that of Hizballah. While one waves a police mans stick in the direction of any country or person seen defying Israel, another is just flexing its muscles for some attention. I was actually very sad that 4 Lebanese young men gave their lives for a political stunt. Lets not forget that Hizballah are Lebanese.

Forgive me programmer Craig, but although I also want the dissarmament of Hizballah, I certainly won't support that taking place under pressure from the likes of you and those wishing peace for Israel at the expense of security of the Lebanese in the South. I am in full support of the Lebanese Army and I believe it was the wrong decision not to replace the IDF with the Lebanese Army in 2002, however I don't believe the time is ripe to disarm Hizballah. Certainly not when there are insecurities among their supporters. Western pressure on Hizballah is only creating the opposite effect, just as Israeli bombing of Beirut did in many of their failed operations of the 90's.

If the Middle East is mind boggling to you then I urge you not to voice your opinion as you may only be causing more boggling to a feeble mind. If your interpretation of the bright side is the dropping of papers from f-16's which 'do much' to calm the noise polution in our tiny country instead of bombs, then it a bright side I don't want to see. You are misinformed and I suggest you stick to programming. Don't patronise a people as a whole by stating that Israel has a right to defend itself. We all have a right to defend ourselves! We know these are testing times for us and I believe we are stepping in the right direction. Right now what is more important to us is national reconciliation, a healthy economy and peace for all the people of Lebanon. Frankly the solving of Hizballah's weapons so northern Israel can feel more secure is very much secondary.


Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

"Hizballah does need to behave more responsibly for it is alienating the Lebanese public "

Actually I have been thinking about that, but I drew different conclusions. I think that Hezbollah should be allowed to make a clown of itself for another year, because as you said, they are alienating moderate Shias, which is a good thing.

Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

"Frankly the solving of Hizballah's weapons so northern Israel can feel more secure is very much secondary."

It's not really about the security of Israel, it's about the security of the Lebanese. I don't believe Nasrallah's BS when he says that the weapons are there against Israel and not the other Lebanese.

These weapons are there to destabilize Lebanon when Ahmadinervegaz decides so. The weapons are there to intimidate their 'fellow' Lebanese. These weapons are illegal - period. There's no reason why the Shia community should retain its weapons when the other are disarmed.

Hani G. said...

Hizbollah's weapons are illegal and you are right by stating that it is unfair that one community is supported by a military edge.

However, things aren't as simple as you make them sound. Illegal as they may be, the weapons have fended off many of the aggressions which we seem to have forgotten about, whether by choice or not. Let us not even get into the illegal activitivies by the Israeli's on Lebanon.

I return to my point on national reconciliation. Just as you have reservations on Hizbollah retaining weapons, Hizbollah supporters feel naked without the weapons to defend them.

Hizbollah know they can't keep their weapons forever, never mind the talk about keeping weapons so long as Israel maintains nuclear weapons. The time they are buying is actually very smart while they find their place in a new Lebanon. Don't forget that their supporters are the majority of the people of South and in order to convince them of aiding a disarmament of Hizbollah we have to offer them something better.

JoseyWales said...


There's nothing secondary about illegal weapons and a "state-within-the-state", especially after the PLO, and then LF experiences.

Of course Israel's action in Lebanon is illegal. Any Israeli action is illegal, we're legally at war with Israel and should fight their actions as deemed appropriate (by our elected officials).

The Hezb is doing irresponsible and illegal stuff but they are IN the Lebanese government. Israel's job may be to screw us, but what is the Lebanese government's job???To fire up Shebaa on Nov 22??? And kiss ass to Hezbo afterwards?

When are we going to stop the madness that we are different when it comes to basics? Where on earth is there "resistance' movements under a sovereign gvmnt. when the enemy is not deep inside your territory?

vox said...

Israel is out and are is not coming back except if Hezbollah continues to send Katiouchas over the border. I won't allow a bunch of fantics to destabilize my country under fallacious pretext of liberating two goats and one cow in Shebaa.

By attacking Israel they are engaging ALL of Lebanon and not only their stupid voters. They are in no position of deciding for the others. There's a parliament responsible for declaring war or not. Even if Hezbollah only recognizes God's (so-called) law, the law of the parliaments are the only applicable law in Lebanon, wether they like it or not.

Raja said...

vox, if I were shi'a and I had a choice between Hizballah and Berri, I'd vote for Hizballah - no questions asked. Do not go around labeling people as "stupid!" All of us know that the reasons Hizballah has gained so much support from the Shi'a community transcend its religious and military characters. In fact, if Hizballah were to change nothing tomorrow except shed those characteristics, I doubt it would lose one Shi'a voter. Rather, it would most likely gain new voters! Will those guys also be "stupid?"

vox said...

They are stupid when they vote for an anti-democratic party. I don't accept moral relativism - my values are absolute. Those who vote for the Hezbollah are no better then the Talibans and I do not have to be affected the consequences of their stupidity. They are no better than

Hani G. said...

Vox please give me one un democratic characteristic of Hizbollah besides your insecurities of their theocracy which happens to be Islamic.
Also I think that comparing Hizbollah supporters to Taliban supporters makes you no different to Programmer Craig in being misinformed.

Hani G. said...

Apologies to all, but I made a mistake with the dates. It is the year 2000 I was referring to and not 2002 regarding the Israeli withdrawal.

Suha said...

Hani & Raja,

Glad to see some moderate voices on the Lebanese blogosphere. You seem to be sincerely concerned with understanding the Hizballah situation and with the search for an equitable solution for all rather than basing your analysis based on personal preferences or ideologies.

I agree that Hizballah should disarm but doing it under outside pressure will only create more problems in the long run for all of us. Hizballah represent a big chunk of the Shiite community. Alienating them when there is no viable political alternative is potentially explosive. It would do well to remember that this all started with al-Sadr drawing support from the economically and socially alienated in the Shiite community, including Nasrallah himself.

Hani G. said...

A voice of reason! Thank you Suha.
I also believe that the economic strangulations experienced by the Shiite community preceding the war is a crucial factor in their attachment to Hizbollah today.

Indeed it was the economic and civil strife due to uneven distribution of income, as well as PLO activitives in the South that nurtured the emergence of Musa Sadr.

Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

One characteristic? Terrorist attacks in Argentina, abduction and execution of foreigners like Michel Seurat, sending kamikaze on the international peacekeeping force, violating the rule of law in the occupied (by Hezbollah post-2000) south Lebanon, arresting people in SOuth Lebanon and detaining them without the authority to do so etc... etc...

Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

Not to forget: betraying Lebanon by working with foreign totalitarian countries in order to destabilize Lebanon, maintaining an illegal militia and doing whatever it can to keep Israel in south Lebanon for all the 90's so it could do its guerilla war and build up its popularity with the idiots who voted for them.

They are no better then Talibans, believe me. They only look better because they can not chop-chop heads and hands currently and must behave because they don't fully control the Lebanese society.

Anonymous said...


All what you've said doesn't worth a penny. these are just accusations that even Israel is not sure of its correctness!

I don't like to respond to you, knowing the kind of hatemonger you are, but let me tell you that I am sure those "stupid" voters will put you in the same basket, and are proud of their "stupidity".

BTW, your simili between hizbollah and taliban is a kind of stupidity also.

Democracy in hizbollah is highly evident in its structural organizations. I would call someone who describes hizbullah as "non-democratic", an ignorant or .... "stupid".

Can you u please tell us whom do u vote for Mr. Brainy?

programmer craig said...

Well, how did I get to be the subject of a post about Lebanon? Please don't accuse me of trying to pressure anybody. Lebanon is the least of my concerns right now, and while I am happy that you (Lebanon) seem to be moving in a good direction, I have already stated that I (personally) would never consider Lebanon a a friend as long as Hezbollah is there - armed or disarmed, it doesn't matter. In my opinion, those guys belong in prison. Or in a graveyard.

I'm not Lebanese.
I'm not Isreali (nor am I jewish)
I am an American.
I am a Programmer.
I was an infantryman in the US Marines.
Hezbollah did murder friends of mine.

Now, I think I've stated who I am and what I care about. Lebanon is not really high on my list. Hezbollah IS high on my list.

Having said all that, I seriously doubt I'm either helping or hurting your cause with what I say. You aren't going to have good relations with the US as long as Hezbollah is there, no matter what I say or do. And no matter what *you* say or do, either. But I get the impression that isn't high on YOUR priority list, so - no problem :)

programmer craig said...

You know, I have to add one thing... I post on a lot of middle eastern blogs and I've never been insulted so much by so many people, so fast, the whole time I've been reading blogs. Keep up the good work, this truly is the path to democracy :D

Highlander said...

Vox populi you have a lot of interesting posts and ideas on your blog BUT ..where do you live ? I believe that is the most important question ...answering it would be enough .