...[Recognizing Israel] is equal to treason under any circumstances and for humane reasons, we are talking about an entity that is based on a single ‘race’ and discrimination and torture against Arabs and Palestinians".
“Let us not forget that Israel has issued a memorandum claiming all rivers in Lebanon as theirs, and when the Lebanese people decided to make use of the water Ariel Sharon threatened to hit all water facilities. We do not accept this racist entity — whether in Palestine or anywhere else in the world. Our vision in Hezbollah for the future is that there will be solutions to fit the human aspect that must prevail in the 21st century.
“Most Palestinians are living in the diaspora, so how can we accept a settlement that does not recognise those people’s return. The Jews always say they were subjected to a big tragedy, which killed many of them, but they forget that the Arabs and Muslims had no role in this calamity and that the West is responsible. So why do we have to pay for it?”
Those are the words of Hizballah's Nawaf Al-Mussawi. But wait, wait ... aren't Hizballah's arms tied to "liberating" the Sheb'a Farms?!?!?
Stupid Lebanese. Stupid, stupid Lebanese! They can see Jumblatt's corruption, and contradictions. They can see the clumsy incompetence of Hariri and the bloody history of all the warlords... but they cannot see where one party is drawing the entire country to! One party! ... and its fanatical ideology!!!
We are all going right back to where we were before Hariri's brutal assassination. We are willingly throwing ourselves back under the thumb of Syria and Iran - indefinitely!
Stupid Lebanese. Stupid, stupid Lebanese! They can see Jumblatt's corruption, and contradictions. They can see the clumsy incompetence of Hariri and the bloody history of all the warlords... but they cannot see where one party is drawing the entire country to! One party! ... and its fanatical ideology!!!
We are all going right back to where we were before Hariri's brutal assassination. We are willingly throwing ourselves back under the thumb of Syria and Iran - indefinitely!
41 comments:
« Stupid Lebanese…They can see the clumsy incompetence of Hariri and the bloody history of all the warlords... »
« It is silly how some focus on Jumblatt, or Hariri as being the tip of the wahhabist spear »
Guys, stop flattering me this way or I’m gonna blush...and you surely don’t want to see a committed rightwinger like the good Dr V. turn red like some lowlife Druze commie turncoat wahhabist spear and stuff!
:)
After all there is not really much to be done about Hizbullah
Why not ? One thing that ought to be done is fighting ferociously the propaganda war.
I.e. Clearly repeat ad infinitum that:
-Diplomacy can get us Chebaa back, if Lebanese
-If things go wrong, Hezb (and Lahoud) will bear RESPONSIBILITY for the deaths and destruction
-That Hezb's stance though "admirable" is costing the economy THOUSANDS of jobs
-that you (gvmnt) have money for PROJECTS all over the south and that the Hezb is standing in your way
etc..
Not easy but doable. Hezb's opponents are letting them set the agenda (and playing stupid sectarian games like the Danish Embassy thing which blew up in their faces and up their behinds).
You fight and burnish your image with real (economic) issues that will appeal to all, and peel off some of Hezb's support, not by playing the stupid "more Palestinian/Arab/Moslem than thou" stupid effing games.
HA should not be a part of the governing body. Their role is in the opposition. To claim that a National Unity government is needed is to fall into the trap of giving HA a veto power.
Hey Self proclaimed Las Vegas MD from the non existent Thomas More chair of whatevr University,
Your disrespect and contempt is beyond the acceptable.
Giving yourself this made up biography, isn't going to give you more credibility.
Please stay on subjects that concern you, like how to be a better Baathist.
Oops I forgot, that's what you already do through your brainwashed interventions on the blogosphere.
If we think of Israel as a racist apartheid state like South Africa, which it is (Palestinians kicked out of their land in 48, Palestinians living in 48 territory are second class citizens, Palestinians in 67 territories cornered into 'bantustans' exemplified by the wall and checkpoints), then there is nothing wrong with what Moussawi is saying. Of course this is not about Shebaa, this is about keeping the pressure on Israel. Hizballah succeeded where the PLO failed because their goal was the liberation of the south not the liberation of Palestine. Turning the solution of the Arab Israeli conflict into a one state solution is the duty of the Palestinians but we as Lebanese have a duty (because we unlike Syria, Egypt and Jordan can do so) to keep the pressure on Israel through non-violent means and violent means where possible. If we the blacks of the Middle East realize Israel is a racist apartheid state then don't we have a duty not to leave it alone?
Why all that anti-Vega rant?
It’s OK to say that Sayyed H. Nasrallah is of Jaafarite persuation or that Michel Aoun is a parochial Christian Caudillo…but calling Joumbalat a Durzee warlord suddenly smells of “intolerance”!??
Anon 1:40,
the poor bastards in the Occupied Territories are pawns, just like we are.
The Palestinian "square" is hardly any different from the Lebanese one with the sole exception being that (for now) the Palestinian one is bloody!
Rest assured, Anon... the Palestinians have as much say about their future as Lebanese do (if not less). And if they were left to do as they wished, they would probably have shocked us with their behavior.
Do you think Lebanese are the only "selfish" people in this world?
What kind of a question is 'do you think the Lebanese are the only selfish people in this world?' And what has it got to do with what I am saying!
We are not as worse off as the poor bastards in 67 territories or 48 territories, its not just bloody, its discrimination, land rights, check points, coloured license plates, ID's and the wall are not just bloody but its doing a hell of a lot of damage. We are not in the same shit, the equivalent of a Palestinian in Lebanon is a foreign worker in Lebanon (I've left out the refugees in the wretched conditiions), not a Lebanese!
As long as Lebanese can know how to deal with each other they can be in a good position.
'Shocked us with their behaviour'! The Palestinians shock me when they do suicide bombs in cafes and markets, but don't the actions of the Israeli state shock you with its behaviour.
If you think of yourself as an idealist then you have a duty to recognize the racist and discrimanatory issues as they are when it comes to Israel and Palestine.
Actually the only Lebanese politician to link Israel to S.Africa was Jumblatt but he changed his mind of course. But do you see that if thats what you consider Israel to be, a South Africa in our midst, then there is not much fanaticism about Hizballah's policy towards Israel (I will admit one thing: Hizballah itself is too limited by its religious ideology to consider Israel a South Africa and to call on Jews and Arabs to live together) but what is worse than that fanaticism is that in fact you are defacto supporting a racist ideology (by not caring that it exists the way it does in your midst).
Anon 4:03, thank you for raising the very valid point regarding the outright hypocricy surrounding a fundamentalist's complaints about how illiberal, "racist," and anachronistic Israel really is. Hizballah's ideology just sets such a great example for all of us to follow!
With regards to Palestine.
The Palestinians do suffer. I acknowledge that. BUT. Both of you misconstrued my initial argument. Let me summarize it for you in one scentence:
"If Palestine had not turned into a pitch where regional and international powers jockeyed for influence, maybe the conflict would be over by now."
So you guys say that "Palestinians are suffering" and that I should recognize that. But what I am saying is that the conflict, in which Palestinians die and suffer every day, is not in their hands any more. Sure... they do the killing, but soldiers do what they are told to do.
You focus on the Palestinians for humanitarian reasons. The wall... the check points... the discrimination.... These all combine to make for a terrible life.
However, don't mix humanitarianism with brutal politics. Politically, palestinians have no say when it comes to war and peace in their land. Even if a majority of Palestinians voted that they wanted peace today, and to solve the Palestine-Israeli issue through discussions rather than violence, the violence will continue.
The "Arabs" used to have the say (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc...) Today, the Persians want their say.
Hellooooo Hizballah!
just a question:
how about the palestinien weapons?
the 1559 talks about disarming the palestiniens in lebanon , it includes the weapons inside the camps as well.
no one is seing this point?
disarming the palestiniens and as well making the lebanese law applied inside theses camps would be an incentive for the hezbollah to disarm and can be seem for the hezbollah to be a garanty to the shiit community that there wont be a iraqi scenario.
just to remind something u forgot you guys, in 2003 there were some videos circulating in the camps, appealing the sunnit fundamentalists to copy what is happening in iraq, and as well to target shiits in lebanon.
we need more people like her:
http://www.kabyles.com/article.php3?id_article=1187
but in all cases, raja, i dont think most people are blind to what HA is, quite the opposite.
before hariri's assassination, everytime anyone said that syria was a danger to lebanon, everyone got on their high horses going "WHAT! ISRAEL IS THE ENEMY!! HOW CAN YOU COMPARE!"
and the answer was: we all KNOW israel is an enemy it is OBVIOUS AS HELL, but no one is fkg talking about syria, and someone ought to!
i think it is the same with HA- everyone knows what their potential danger, so there is no point insisting (i'll spare you my personal experiences with them, including physical threats etc).
The day to deal with them will come, and i think it is being dealt with at some level, by defusing some of their anger (Remember the "christian" anger over the last 15 years of being shut out of decision making, and look at how extreme the steet christian is now, last thing you want to do is repeat the experience with the armed shia.)
There is NO WAY you can isolate HA, except by making the shia in general feel safe and proud of something else.
meanwhile, we are brainwashed to believe that the same guys who have milked the country for the last 15 years (and burnt it the 15 years before) are suddenly all angels and have the country's best interest in mind.
it needn't be either/or. it isn't with us or against us. you spend too much time in the US, you're starting to think like an american.
good point FE, what if HA was actually more worried of the palestinians than of the israelis?
What I am saying is that Hizballah's policy of the destruction of Israel (a racist colonial state) is better (morally, idealistically, humanistaclly etc...) than your idea of leaving it alone (which is the implication of your argument) -unless you want to start bringing up the analysis of Israel as an Apartheid state and that Jews and Arabs must live together.
What I am saying is that Hizballah's policy of the destruction of Israel (a racist colonial state) is better (morally, idealistically, humanistaclly etc...) than your idea of leaving it alone (which is the implication of your argument)
Better for whom? The Arabo-Islamic gods of morality and virtue? How can Hizbullah's policy be good if it passes through the destruction and misery of its own people? And why is it that only Hizbullah can fight that moralistic battle, and only Hizbullah's violence that is the recognized way? If you want to do it for humanistic reason, then be a humanist first and acknowledge the intolerant and murderous doctrine espoused by the party that you want to support for moral reasons. And if you must support Palestinians against Israelis, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as you don't force your countrymen to do so with you, then go there and die under a bulldozer like a brave woman once did. I don't see how supporting a bunch of crazed Khomeini wannabes will bring Palestine back. I agree with Raja. Let's leave the Palestinian alone. It's their battle to wage. We can sympathise and support, but we don't want to tie their fate to that of a street sweeper and a failed Ophthalmologist.
Better for human beings! If you don't want this issue to be tied into crazed khomeini wannabes and a failed Opthalmologist then you come up with a better analysis and way of implementing it than they have and argue for it, otherwise this issue which is the crux of the matter in the ME will be hijacked by them and you will end up fighting their ideas with your present pitiful ones and they will then fight even harder because they are pitiful. That is why I am talking CONSTANTLY of Israel as an Apartheid state which you and raja have completely ignored either because you are too cowardly to acknowledge it as such while your stuck in your beltway sphere of influence or because you are too ignorant and still need some time to digest it.
'How can Hizbullah's policy be good if it passes through the destruction and misery of its own people?'
Militarily speaking Hizballah has been a detterent to Israel which has prevented Israel destroying and bringing more misery to its own people. If anyone has brought misery to ‘their people’ it is the Lebanese state.
'acknowledge the intolerant and murderous doctrine espoused by the party that you want to support for moral reasons.'
First of all the party since Taif has been more ethical and astute in its violence than any other party in Lebanon and possibly the region - as exemplified by the fact that there were no massacres when the south was liberated.
While your sticking to your beltway why don't you read John Mearshimer and Stephen Walts new paper on the Israel Lobby in the US, as I imagine those names will be more attuned to your liking, I don’t have the link now but will post it for you when I get it.
Anonymous-- I don't need you to recommend any readings for me, and I certainly don't need you to lecture me on Israel being an apartheid state. The only ignorant one here is you, and your ignorance covers my and Raja's background and experience. What's tragically predictable about your response is how you automatically assumed that an opposition to Hizbullah meant support for or ignorance about Israel. Rachel Corrie died because she saw injustice and yelled at it to stop. It crushed her to death. Your idea of fighting injustice is to let the rabid dogs out and hope they bite your enemy before you. Well good luck with the dogs, my friend.
Nice one! But that has not much to do with what I said.
I see we mainly differ because we find each other annoying...And by the fact that I don't give my countrymen animal names...thats a lot of dogs my friend, be careful these are your countrymen you are talking about and if you think they would bite other Lebanese then you have a serious problem.
As I said
"come up with a better analysis and way of implementing it than they have and argue for it, otherwise this issue which is the crux of the matter in the ME will be hijacked by them and you will end up fighting their ideas with your present pitiful ones and they will then fight even harder because they are pitiful."
Supporting Rachel Corrie's position is not pitiful, but apart from here mention at the end of the comments there is nothing in this blogspot or your blogspot to reflect on whether Israel is or isn't an Apartheid state. This is a better analysis than Hizballah's religo centric analysis AND it is one they might listen to if people start telling them about it.
Frencheagle, please...it is shiites not shitts.
FGA
To those vehemently attacking De la Vega...you are all mistaken. Victorino is obviously a highly educated intellectual. His comments are both witty and sharp. Unfortuantely, he painfully sounds like a broken record, since his SSNP philosphy is as relevant to today's society as Britney Spears is to a tibetan monk. Victorino, your talent is wasted on this archaic useless philosphy. A greater united Levant "affish"! It's time to wake up, DUDE!
FGA
its shia's but according to mr.beltway its dogs
anon 12:01... nice! very nice! take an analogy of Hizballah fighters, and turn it into a literal description of a whole population! oooh how honest of you!
Anon 7:31...
what do you want? Do you want a moral/idealist/humanist/etc... argument that stipulates that the destruction of an apartheid state is less moral than its existence?
I cannot give you that. I cannot make a moral argument for any institution that systematically discriminates among people based on creed or ethnicity, humiliates and destroys the individual, murders indiscriminately, deprives, etc.... No. I cannot make a moral case that such an institution should not be destroyed. But, I have a question for you, anon: "was I just describing Israel, or almost every other Arab country out there (including the Great Persia)? You tell me!
Okay. Since I cannot save the state of Israel (as it exists today) the question becomes: how do you destroy it... or change it so that its existence becomes morally defensible?
Do we try to destroy Israel by force and take the entire Middle East down into a nuclear Armageddon... or do we try some other means?
So the issue is now one of means, and I believe a.Kais w. dealt with it quite well.
this blog sucks....people are yelling, and accusing each others....
this blog really sucks!
this blog really does suck...you think i'm saying this just to get one over you? I seriously think your friend is racist and you are probably so if only unconciously...you know as well as i do that when 90% of the shiites support that hizb and amal, your friends purely emotional statement is reflective of his thinking...he talked about rabid dogs and he said 'good luck with the dogs'...your friend is a racist...just like Gibran said the Shia are sheep and Nasrallah had to say well then you are a cow...your friend implies the Shia are dogs, am I supposed to imply he is a pussy cat?...and when he calls hizb fighters rabid dogs well shit what do you say of Berri, Jumblatt and Geagea...what do you say of this website section (http://www.lebaneseforces.com/ouwet101.asp) that gives tactical advice on street warfare...STREET WARFARE! Street warfare with whom? Is that where you want to end up? This is Hakim's hizb we are talking about, is there anything like that on the Hizb website. Don't disrespect anybody this country is too delicate for disrespect...especially when you go back there and realize its reality...and i'm sorry if I caused hurt for you guys but this blogsite and your friends blogsite has some serious issues to examine closely and open heartedly if you are Lebanese who respects all of Lebanon's diversity honestly.
As for Israel you treat it like Apartheid South Africa. How do we treat Persia and the Syrians, as I said we have to be honest with ourselves and realize we are the blacks of the middle east, and as Lebanese we don't care what happens there, we care if they interfere here, but where can we start at as Lebanese with this Apartheid analysis - after we agree with each other of course. With a two state solution dead or probably still being buried, you talk to the extremists about this solution, you talk to two staters about this solution you look to boycott and divest from Israel just as was done with Apartheid South Africa. You have a quote from Desmond Tutu regarding South Africa, well Tutu has articles on Israel as an Apartheid State. The Lebanese are still not able to answer what do we do with Syria if she is killing all these Lebaense. Obviously regime change THROUGH LEBANON is not an option because that would be a recipe for civil war. But you have to closely examine what to do with Apartheid Israel. You can start by talking to fellow Lebanese about it. Can Lebanon make an official anti apartheid position against Israel, probably not becuase we are too worried about investments and the possiblity of economic burn out...visa has just issued a pro israel card, you can have a look at it here (http://www.hasadvantage.com/)... that just shows how much economic power Israel and its allies have in the world...as for the Stephen Walt and John Mearshimier paper on 'the Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy' you should have a look at it, your friend does not want me to recommend any readings becuase he completely understands the animal kingdom, I suggest he looks it up himself if he wants to read it.
I'm OUT of here
Hey why should we worry about Syria and Iran as discrimanating regimes when we in Lebanon have Palestinian refugees and not Syrian and Iranians!!!!!!!! whats worse a discrimanating regime or a discrimanating regime that steals land?????????
anon 11:45... I am glad this blog has given you the opportunity to rant. I don't know what else to say because you fail to present a coherent argument for anything.
LF
economic embargo
visa
Israeli lobby
street warfare
syrian regime change
dogs and pussy cats
racism
stephen walt
the animal kingdom
WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?!?!?!?!?
You guys are whack and i only threatened once but your arguments keep bringin me back and i'm not writing an essay here in order to be coherent.
I would like to be sympathetic to humbums plea of innocence regarding Hizb's guilt as a militia but your pathetic equation of Israels (well documented)land theft with the 67 Egypt and Jordan case makes me suspect of your leanings if not your historical intelligence.
Clearly Hizballah's history puts them head over heals above lebanon's other militias and like it or not this is the reality of the 'rabid dogs' of Lebanon.
Please if you are ABLE to relate more info dates about that case of yours - its not the first one I hear and I'm very curious - I am all ears.
None of us will have a say in Hizballah's disarmament if we don't have a coherent and comprehensive strategy of dealing with Israel as Lebanese (and not as Palestinians of course). As for the Syrians I don't know how to deal with them frankly?
(continued)My greatest fear is that both Syria and Israel may have an interest in civil war in Lebanon, Syria becuase it keeps forces of regime change out of Syria and Israel because it keeps the Hizballah threat distracted. I still think the best way of dealing with Israel is as an Apartheid state that must be boycotted and sanctioned. Boycotting and sanctioning Syria is not an option when our entire trade to the arab world goes through there and regime change in Syria through Lebanon may lead to civil war in Lebanon so this is the reality we have to take into consideration when dealing with them although I really don't know how to deal with them. As for Shebaa Hizballah will lose face if it is no longer considered Lebanese. Their real litmust test lies after Shebaa is liberated and if Lebanese are going to be ranting all the time calling other Lebanese names or implying they are 'dogs' as Mr.Beltway did and not deal with it calmly, collectively, and in a civilized way then we are going to have some serious problems.
For fux sake Mr.Lebanese blogger why could you not have posted the entire interview rather than the section that suited you.
Because I was trying to make a point, Ms./Mr. Fux!
If you want to read the whole article all you have to do is google some key words, and you may access it for free.
“….Victorino, your talent is wasted on this archaic useless philosphy. A greater united Levant "affish"! It's time to wake up, DUDE!” [FGA]
“Victorino!! what are you talking about turning LEFT??? leych is liking Jamboulad and Hariri true leftist thinking!!!!!????? liking joumblat is a "bid3a" invented by few lebanese who distorted leftist ideology for their own personal purposes in a ugly religious war in wich they shamously participated” [Sheikh Chakhakh Ibn Al-Bambirss]
Hmm…Shall I take it as a compliment my dear F.G.A.?
For the record I’m no SSNP even though some aspects of Antoun Saadeh’s ideology notably his staunch secular stance are quite appreciable at a time when the Middle-East and the world at large are threatened by Pharisaic fanatics of Wahhabi persuasion.
I’m just an “independent loose canon” of sorts with a nostalgic twist for the “modernist” drive of Sate’ Al-Husri (in his old days), George Antonius and Michel ‘Aflaq (in his young days)...
And I’m not “Aounist” per se…but the man has earned my respect…and my vote too.
Hmm…Hmm…Beyond Joumbalat the bloodthirsty Druze war criminal, my “anti-commie” pique was directed mainly at the French-educated “Gauche Democratique” of Samir Kassir & Co. a bunch of socialite socialist idiots who went from preaching Trotsky’s pseudo-science to supporting Hariri and his reactionary Islamist monarch paymasters. Theses guys are a disgrace to both Marxism and democracy!
:))
what can i say thats fucked up. i'm sorry bas 92-94 s.lebanon was under occupation. i mean i don't want to take an american argument and talk about 'collateral damage' and i don't want to go over with what saad haddad and antoine lahd did to villages under their control. hopefully no one was hurt
the thing about hizballah is that they know they have been more ethical than other militias, so when dealing with them one has to always be mindful and respectful of that. and as i have said from the beginning of my comments an apartheid analysis of the palestine israel problem is better than their religious analysis of the problem which may lead to military conduct outside of lebanon. their religous analysis however I PERSONALLY THINK is better than a leave israel alone analysis.
frankly I have more of a problem with other lebanese who are racist and imply other lebanese are animals than i do with hizballah and frankly I PERSONALLY BELIEVE they are more dangerous than hizballah.
if they are fed up of me mentioning this point over and over again well I THINK they and their friends still have some serious intellectual questioning to do.
I SINCERELY hope something good has come out of this.
As for not posting the entire interview, posting the entire interview would have answered your point of
"But wait, wait ... aren't Hizballah's arms tied to "liberating" the Sheb'a Farms?!?!?
Stupid Lebanese. Stupid, stupid Lebanese!...they cannot see where one party is drawing the entire country to"
Mr. Fux/Kalb
okay... this dog thing is getting way out of hand.
As for fux, I believe you were the one who so ingraciously introduced it into this blog's discourse.
Kais, said something previously: you are ignorant of our backgrounds. He said it because he wanted to convey a message to you. You apparently did not get it. If you did, maybe you'd think twice before calling yourself a dog and calling us racist!
I am not here to find out about your backgrounds, this whole thing is about comments and ideas...
Kais' comments were racist and the reason i picked on them constantly is that there are many Lebanese (WHO WE LIKE) who are racist OR have made racist comments (e.g one Gebran Tueni - who we like - called other Lebanese sheep and this is about Lebanese!! I am not mentioning what others have said of non lebanese). I have read Kais comment over and over again and am not dogshitting you they are racist comments. its your problem not mine if you can't see Kais comments for what they are...
can i go now
*eating pop corn and watching them fighting*
Hello my name is SaudiFalcon...judging by your website pictures you probably have some real dogshit under your carpet...i'm glad you found this fun
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