Monday, May 08, 2006

Ready To Fight!



A peace sign or bam, bam, bam, guns?!








"Nobody knows how many rebellions, besides political rebellions, ferment in the masses of life which people earth."

45 comments:

AbdulKarim said...

Bang Bang most probably.

Anonymous said...

That's hilarious Doha! Indeed, Aon, being the utter moron he is, inadvertantly chose the symbol of a gun for his party. Just look at how dumb he looks in that picture! I love it!

-FGA

Ali said...

They have been screwing the country with their logo. Everywhere I look i see it. The way that the logo was chosen was by sitting down a bunch of FPMers and asking them what they tought of the General and the FPM. They came up with the check as correct. Now what i would have done is asked a random sample. No? I am sick of all Lebanese Political Parties.... We need fresh blood and new ideas. They are still the same people that almost destroyed the countery with their civil war.

Doha said...

I am sick myself too of political parties. I am tired of people just coming out on the streets with flags whenever needed. It just shows how much time poeple have on them.

Anonymous said...

Let's not loose focus on the real issue at hand. People demonstrating is not the problem. In fact, it is great that we can do so, anytime, anywhere...

To me, what is rediculous is that Nabih Beri had to report to his boss in Damascus on Sunday regarding internal Lebanese affairs. Did he go there as Bashar's puppy or as head of the Lebanese parliament? I wonder..

FGA

Raja said...

Fadi,

you hit the mark with that comment. It is a terrible sign. Maybe an omen of even worse things to come.

Mustapha said...

nice observation doha :)

too late to put actual guns in his hands, but you don't need graphic treatment to get the picture. his fingers tell it all.

Ramzi said...

The moment I saw that picture in today's papers I thought of a rootin'-tootin' cowboy.
I can just hear scream: Yeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

What you don't see in the picture is the cattle he's rounded up around him...

Anonymous said...

What do you expect from a belligerent warrior?
Dalal

the perpetual refugee said...

His fingers are pointed in the wrong directions.

Anonymous said...

I think he learned a thing or two from Nasrallah during their famous meetings.

Anonymous said...

Aoun aka Captain Flash Gordon, Savior of the Universe, has a real challenge.
What will come first? Alzheimer or the presidency?

Anonymous said...

Doha,
Since you're fed up with political parties, then why are you always targeting this specific party???
In a democratic country there's always opposition and it's always healthy to have it. In a democratic country the government works and does its JOB no matter what the opposition is saying. Then once the time comes, it either gets replaced or stays depending on the satisfaction of the people with its performance...

All I see from Saniora's government (and of course March 14, Future Movement, Lebanese Forces, Jumblat etc...) is stubborness. Their focus is to remove the president and unfortunately they can't get their minds off that! I mean what happened to Bassem el-Sabaa? Is it reasonable to have his position filled temporarily for such a long time? What is the government doing other than a wide publicity campaign against Aoun and anything he says or does?

I've been reading your blog for some time and I enjoy it. I sure hope that you'll focus more on the positive side and give us your advice on how things should progress in Lebanon without obviously taking one side or another. We should all try to think for once by ourselves and figure out what we would do in this country if none of these political parties existed. Maybe one day this spirit will fill the country and we'll manage to do something that would lift us from this mess.

Doha said...

Anon,

Thanks for continuing to read our blog. When I write on this blog, something usually pushes me to write, an event or a piece of news that provokes me. This is why in general I have been writing less, because there is a certain level of optimism that is fading away and there is less excitement in reporting on status quo politics.

I am not affiliated to any party or movement, but sort of favor the March 14 spirit (as opposed to the March 8). I hate following blindly any person, and have not found in any politician in Lebanon as a leader worth following and clapping for yet.

In a recent post, I did criticize the last Bristol Gathering. I'll try to not take sides, unless a picture like this comes up...worthy of posting. What provoked me was how Al-Nahar described the picture, they wrote that Aoun is making a peace sign!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 7.08

Having opposition is healthy. However, this opposition is working on destroying the country. Lahoud must be removed in order to get things moving. Replacing Bassem El Sabaa is one of them. Lahoud wants to assign his man to that post.
The way I see it, it is Aoun who is leading a smear campaign against the government and not the other way around. A day hardly goes by, without his attacks. It is obvious he wants to become the next president at all costs.

Dalal

Anonymous said...

Doha,
You are right. This is not a peace sign and I find it weird that Al-Nahar presented it like that. I wonder why?!
Maybe he meant it this way or maybe they meant to point it out like you noticed. All I know is that I am fed up with hearing what any of these politicians are saying. I know that none is right and I know that they are killing the March 14 spirit and any spirit that the Lebanese people had after the Syrians withdrew. I encourage you to keep writing, otherwise you'll fall into their trap too.

Anonymous said...

It kinda reminds me of this, don't you think?!

Anonymous said...

I like those who say they want Aoun for president cause he is clean. Damn I have a 1 year old dog who is always clean. Should he also be nominated for presidency ?

A.M said...

hehehe anon @ 854..that was a great one..
well doha i really agree with what you are saying because i was waiting for a post from you concerning this picture and concerning his speeches. he keeps on attacking people instead of talking about the syrians who were going to assasinate him before he ran away to Paris and not letting him come back. now it is the future movement who banned him from coming back to lebanon and not him saying "sha3eb el lbnany bado ykaser raso lal assad" ..
they say that the general has nothing to do with the army right now and this picture has only one meaning..a peace sign is not like this and maybe annahar was criticising god knows.
in anyways i wanted to point out one point...if sawt elghad says there are TENS of thousands who attended and not 2 million something..then honestly where is the 70% of the lebanese that want him...if they support him then i think they should all be wearing orange and be there supporting him. I think someone should deliver this to Mr. aoun who has supporters that are less than 20% of the CHRISTIANS!
Anyone from the tayyar plz explain..

A.M said...

One thing..look at ANNAHARS characetour..so might as well update ur post!
a question: if now jumblat, hariri, saniora are all making visits around to talk about the political issues going on...does it mean that 14 march has many bases as aoun said? or is it that none of these countries would agree on aoun being president...and now the future movement was created by syrians..mmm..and if u listen to sawtelghad they say that because of 14 march and future movement are insulting aoun, he is replying back...mmmm..how nice! so if he became president and a country didn't agree with him..he would cut diplomatic relations and kick out the embassedor..lool..
Anon:
Yes it is healthy to have opposition that would criticise the government and the parliament but wouldn't insult and assume that all are stealers and killers and that he is the only clean guy. He is in the opposition just trying to go for presidency realizing that he wasn't going to be chosen in both ways even if he was part of the 14 march.

Anonymous said...

Doha,
I guess it all lies in the eyes of the beholder them don't you think?
Some people want to see a peace sign some people want to see guns.

The fact of the matter is that it is just a simple logo.

People using the dog or sheep comparision are just reflecting thir own level of thinking.

For once, I agree with FGA ... Even though I have no answer to his question.

Of course some blame the Shia that Berri is our Speaker of parliment , or Aoun (Dalal probably would, just guessing) or whoever, I blame those who cast the votes.

Oh and Dala, about your Sabaa remarque all I can say is LOL. After all the incompetence he displayed everytime there was a need for a man on the job, and you defend his action because of what? I would try to understand if you were pretending to defend his competence but a conspiracy theory? heheheh , yep we got it.
But nooooo it is Aoun's fault Sabaa never did his Job, it's a smear campain.
The man was incompetent and he deserves to go, I wish someone like fatfat would replace him permanently.

But I know, the most important thing is to always have your excuse ready for failing to do the job.

TAC

Oh and A.M I am not from tayyar, but if you have any specific questions I bet I can easilly explain things to you, so tfaddal bel sou'al.

Anonymous said...

A.M.
Re reading your comment, I guess you want to me explain how can it be possible that the number of people that support Aoun for presidency is larger than the number of people who attended that ceremony? Is that it?

Is that what you don' understand?

A.M said...

yes this is what i dont understand how 70 percent of the lebanese want him for presidency and only tens of thousands attended the ceremony where there should be millions..or atleast hundreds of thousands..
as for anon 5.01 well that was my question it was very clear and please explain clearily..and about fatfat well it has been already explained that lahoud wants that seat to be taken from someone from his side and that shouldn't happen therefore we should take lahoud first and then deal with the rest as you saw lahoud stopped major files that the parliament have elected to it..there fore he is blocking everything and brining a person from the same school i really doubt it is the right thing!

A.M said...

one more thing..there was a question written in www.14march.org asking the tayyar that why don't they give other names than michele aoun? i mean the lebanese forces gave 3 names..ja3ja3 could have went for presidency right? but he gave out 3 names that he and his allies think would be good for presidents. so why doesn't tayyar give other names than aoun if aoun was a problem that till now nothing was solved in the "hiwar".
Oh and come on everyone who is from the tayyar defend the tayyar and at the end say "p.s we are not from the tayyar" as if they aren't proud...have confidence plz u guys..

Doha said...

A.M.

It's important though not to just see Aoun as a problem. What about Berri's Sunday visit to Damascus for a meeting with Assad and a luncheon with Sharaa? And what about Seniora in the U.K. asking Israel to withdraw from the Shebaa Farms? And Saad Hariri meeting some 5 times with Sayyid Nasrallah, only to find out that HA/FPM/Amal and others are forging ahead anyways with tomorrow's mass demonstration?

Our country is going down in a hand basket!

Anonymous said...

Doha,

Ironically, I was checking yesterday's annahar news again today, so I visited their pdf version. Guess what, they changed the caption on the picture and now it reads: "Gen Aoun addressing his supporters and raising his hands making the sign of the Tayyar at Forum de Beirut etc..." I've never paid that much attention to the sign that Tayyar had adopted. However, i find it very interesting how such a simple post resulting from a clear message from annahar would result in all these responses. It surprises me that annahar has different postings to the same news on its different sites.

As for Anon 8:01 (Dalal), i sure hope that one day we'll all stop giving reasons like yours about the incompetent government that we have.

A.M said...

Well doha i really want to know about saniora..i mean how can we deal with the sheb3a crisis? we have been depending on the UN that has been doing nothing and u have seen in Qana what israel did and what happend..it is probably a way to try to disarm hizbalah as the Taef and 1559 say and probably to get over with the border issue with syria. if syria isn't willing to give us proof that its lebanese and the united nations is wanting both lebanese and syrians to approve for whom shebaa is then come on.. in my opinion what Saniora is doing might be a solution to all this.
As for Berri i really dont know what he is trying to do...they're saying that he's opening the way for saniora to go visit alassad which i doubt will happen..he is probably getting some "messages" on what to say in the Hiwar on the 16th of May. god knows!
And for Hizballah and hariri well after shahid rafiq alhariri was assasinated it has been said that he was visiting nasrallah every Sunday.
In anyways, as you said Lebanon is just falling apart.
I read on Elaph as a comment today someone asked a question to the FPM was that "If aoun was part of the 14 march and was guaranteed by them that he'll be president.would he be criticising the government like he is now? I really want an answer from someone.
Thanx

Anonymous said...

A.M.

"I read on Elaph as a comment today someone asked a question to the FPM was that "If aoun was part of the 14 march and was guaranteed by them that he'll be president.would he be criticising the government like he is now? I really want an answer from someone."

He was in March 14 and broke off. This means he did not agree with their governing policies and that's why he went to opposition.
So this isn't actually a question and there's no answer of course.
If you think it is a question of presidency only, then why don't they just give him the presidency and have him shut up? I don't think that's the solution.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 5:01

I was responding to anonymous @7:08 - he or she was asking how come El Sabaa has not been replaced yet! I said Lahoud wants to assign his guy to the position and that's why there is no replacement yet. I was not defending El Sabaa actions or lack of actions.

Dalal

Anonymous said...

anonymous @ 11:58,

Having Lahoud still in office is a huge problem for the government. This is a fact.

Dalal

Anonymous said...

errr
a.m. well the place where the ceremony was held can take afew tens of thousands of people so that's the maximum number of people that can attend :-) Isn't that obvious?

In case there was a voting thing to measure the number of people who want Aoun, well some of us didn't get the memo and we thought it was just a meaningless celebration of Aoun's return! If we knew votes were being counted we would have gone and endured ours of useless talks!

Dalal, all I am saying is Lahoud cannot be used as an excuse for everything.
you say, "Having Lahoud still in office is a huge problem for the government. This is a fact." you are right, also having an incopentent minister's resignation left hanging for month is also a huge problem for the credibility of the government. This is also a fact.

Having March 14th group UNABLE to work with anyone else to get Lahoud out is also a problem for the government. This is also a fact.

Also on a less serious note between having a person who is as incompetent as sabaa or having someone close to lahoud like Tarek Mitri or Chrles Rezek, well sorry to tell you bass thses guyes even though they are apointed by the worst polititian in ebanon are doing a better job than Sabaa was doing (bi shehadet Walid Jumblat no less)

TAC

Anonymous said...

Oh really...then if you have this capacity of people then why wasn't it done in a bigger area where it can fit 70% of the lebanese? And couldn't they set up some large screens outside? mmmm...think again bro. have a great day son!

Lazarus said...

actually, anon and TAC,

there was a huge turnout. but i guess that all depends on which pictures you saw ...

Anonymous said...

lazarus, I didn't see any pictures and I have no idea about the turnout, all my information about the turnout comes from this thread.

All I am saying is, i heard on the news there was a celebration of Aoun's return in Forum... big deal I thought!

Now in this thread I hear there were tens of thousands of people and someone asking a silly question :
"If there are 70% of the population supporting Aoun why were there only tens of thousands there"

I was just answering the question! by stating the obvious without having any other outside information about the issue.

Apparently the new anonymous only read the first sentence of my reply a asked a new questions which is answered in my second sentence. So here is the same simple answer made even simpler:

Q. then if you have this capacity of people then why wasn't it done in a bigger area where it can fit 70% of the lebanese?
A. No one claimed that 70% of the population wanted to celebrate Aoun's return , not even Aoun claimed that.
The number of people willing to go to an event to celebrate Aoun's return is X , we are not arguing that X in the tens of thousands.
The number of people which support Aoun for presidency is a different number Y.
You heard on the radio that X = tens of thousands now you are trying to argue that Aoun claimed Y is bigger and cannot understand how.
All your argument is based on your confusion that X and Y are the same number, they are not. That's all I am saying.

Do you want an example? that does not envolve Aoun so that you can be less emotional about the argument?
Read Raja's recent sad post here. Do you conclude that the total number of people who want the blogger freed is 6 and the number of the people who want him jailed is the rest of the DC population?

All I am saying is that X and Y can be, and in fact are, different numbers, simple no?
Or do you beleive they cannot be different?

TAC

A.M said...

TAC it's a different issue..why are you complicating yourself with X and Y and giving me some Algebra..all what i am saying if they were 70% of the lebanese who support aoun then there should be atleast hundreds of thousands..and aoun is not going to call everyone "please come and support me for my return.."
tayeb listen..the people who where there in his return last year..weren't they more than who came this year; about hundreds of thousands..who some people of the tayyar said reached up to 700,000? assuming now that Aoun got more supporters than the elections in the summer means that if not the same 700,000 who where there should atleast be 500,000..(im giving u a minimum number) which means probably the same people were voting on the internet for Aoun everyday which boosted it up to 70% of the LEBANESE!! go to www.14march.org and see for yourself the results..you expect the 14march going to use these statistics against aoun? if they do then im going to hand in my nationality and be from Sri Lanka..;)
enjoy your day my boy!

Doha said...

Guys, I think this whole discussion has gotten out of control in a way. You're going around in the same circle.

A.M.: the issue is not how many people showed up to Aoun's rally this time around. The issue is for instance how his supporters were very easily holding pictures of Nasrallah next to Aoun. Wow! In one year, a lot of things can change....

Anonymous said...

Doha,
We're having fun with the discussion isn't that all that matters? :-)

Funny, I would have assumed these are Nasrallah supporters who attended the Aounist event. Not that there is anything wrong with the other way around.
I mean when I see LF flags in a Future rally for example I assume they are LF people supporting Future and not Future people carring LF flags.
Still no matter which way it is, you are right that's an amazing change.

Now back to A.M.
Sorry for complicating your life with algebra it's just that your math is wrong :-)
Just to make the numbers easier to write I will assume 10K people attended, and Aoun claims 3M people support him.
You are using some magic formula to induce that if 3M support Aoun then "hundreds of thousands" people should attend this event and not 10K how did you calculate that? WHat is that formula?
As if you are saying that by taking the number of people that attened you calculated that "Mr. aoun who has supporters that are less than 20% of the christians" please share how you arrived from the 10K number to 20% of the christians.
Teach me to make the same caculation, Or are you just inventing numbers?
Also please use the same formula and calculate for me the number of people who support releasing the blogger knowing that 6 people attended the vigil Raja was talking about. Or does your formula only work on Aounist events?

I am not claiming that I can calculate the number of supporter from the number of attendees, I am just saying YOU CAN'T but you pretend to :-)

About internet voting. That's a whole other issue. I wouldn't trust internet voting if it was on tayyar.org 14march.org futur or cnn.com
Before you go into details of cheating or voting twice, which you seem to naively beleive is the problem, you fail to realize that the visitors of a site are not a propper random population sample so their results don't mean much.

My guess is , you've never taken a course in statistics, sampling and estimations am I right?

I didn't really get your point about using the votes against aoun and handing in your nationality. What's the issue? Why did you choose Sri Lanka? Are you trying to imply anything?

TAC

A.M said...

why did the tayyar.org in the beginning put that "to all tayyar people don't get any flags or wear any colors that support any party" and now we see that the majority of the people out today are wearing orange with orange flags and u go to tayyar and they have taken this note away.
as for TAC well michel aoun said that he has 72% of the christians that support him in aljazeera interview...few weeks later it's 70% percent of the LEBANESE..i mean what is this? don't u think there is something wrong here?
as for doha well yeah you see it's very strange how suddenly the guy who they say CREATED, who was arguing when he came to lebanon that "I DID THE 1559" and was insulting everyone (before the results of the elections) and now the aounists have nasrallahs picture..where the aounists themselves a year ago were praying that lebanon does peace with israel and get rid of syria..
in the interview with saad alhariri he said that he is against the 2000 elections and should change it as soon as lahoud impeached..but the question is that WHO VOTED? WHO WON? when a person like aoun says i have 72% of the christians how do you want the other religions to support such guy that is trying to divide us up..
if you saw the news of last night in future tv or you can go to www.futuretvnetwork.com and watch the news of today...they'll show you how the points of the tayyar.org were very similar to the points given by the government..ofcourse as the "mostashar aoun" have said..so how the hell is he now going to the street? if not nasrallah would the tayyar go to the street? or continue insulting the government?
Some good questions right TAC?
in any ways its obvious to everyone that this demonstration was done to acheive goals! It's nice Aoun now is getting orders from Assad..wasn't he the one who wanted to "kasser raso lal assad"? or did he mean Hafez?
As for the nationality thing..no i wasn't implying it on anything..all what i meant was the same way you said that no one should trust the internet voting..i was saying if the 14march used the internet voting agains aoun then i wouldn't want to be a LEBANESE anymore..because you know how bull it is..even if it was from some international organization...things won't happen only if the people voted for the president..this is what i think should happen in lebanon..because as Saad Alhariri said, contradicting Aoun, that the prime minister the president or whoever in the parliament should not be voted by sects but by alll lebanese..In your opinion when a president goes to some conference in foreign countries..would he be representing the christians of lebanon or LEBANON in general?/ some of the Tayyar supporters say that didn't the sunnis elect saad and wanted sanioura to be prime minister? well no it's not the sunnis...the LEBANESE who were the majority are the ones that voted him to represent them..
Syria starts saying that lebanon should change the way elections goes..well they are the ones who put this rule or way of elections..and some say well they put it in favor of hariri..well how would they put such rule in favor of hariri if they were fearing from hariri getting in rule and opening the ALMADINA file? why would they put such rule if hariri was a target for them?
Look the only reason that i started to disagree and dislike the tayyar which is democratic is that if nothing was in favor of them then everything is done by corruption..and anything in favor of them then it was democratic..the most thing that made me hate such party is the way they start relating everything to sects..for example in the elections in the North where 28 members were taken by the 14 march. Gebran Bassil was having a party and Batroun was full of fireworks...we were wondering how and why if they lost..and the answer was "we consider this a victory because all the christians voted for their "list"" where in the other hand Sa'ad was trying to reunite Lebanon by allying with all the sects and parties!!
At the end man..there isn't anything we should argue on..you won't change your point of view even if i give you the answers for your questions..VV same thing goes to my point of view..this is life and this is democracy..as a lebanese saying "everyone sleeps on the side that comforts them".
A.M

A.M said...

just to make one point clear..i meant that the majority of the people who wore red yellow orange(not as requested)where orange..
oh and forgot to tell you about the equations things..u dont need equations or statistics class...u need "common sense" my son..
14 march 06 was less than half a million...as the tayyar.org was SEARCHING and DIGGING every report every newspaper all types of media that said it was less than a million..and today tayyar org the demo of today was more than half a million..(it includes 4 parties)
Doha btw they probably had pictures of nasrallah just so they can have some support in may 10..u know so in the media they would show you some pictures of the hzballah party wearing orange..u know for aouns publicity being pres.

Anonymous said...

OK, enough of this already!
Sounds more like you guys are selling khodra than engaging in intellectual discourse. I agree with Doha, and I havent read a tenth of what was written.

The managers of this blog put great effort in making this a highly professional site, so in my opinion before posting, one should ensure that he/she is abiding by the same set of high standards.

FGA

Anonymous said...

> u dont need equations or statistics class...u need "common sense"

hehehe good one, I love how you used common sense between quotes. We'll leave it at that then.
I'll take classes , rely on math and statistics and you use your "common sense" instead :-)

TAC

A.M said...

TAC hehehe man it was a really nice conversation...seriously..
FGA oh well don't read anything..go to a different souk..

Anonymous said...

FGA, hahah that's the best I have heard so far.

Let me quote the high standard comments that set this conversation on its path:

"That's hilarious Doha! Indeed, Aon, being the utter moron he is, inadvertantly chose the symbol of a gun for his party. Just look at how dumb he looks in that picture! I love it!

-FGA"

I am sorry I was unable to match and maintain the high level of the intellectual discourse you set for this discussion with your comments, I shall forever live in that shame.
Next time I'll do my best to kick off with some name calling , then make fun of the looks of the political leaders I want to critisize so you can accept what I have to say.

TAC

Anonymous said...

TAC,

I believe I owe you an apology.

But look on the bright side..At least now, you and AM have something in common..you both think I'm a concieted jerk.

Who says the FPM and the FM have nothing in common?!

FGA

Anonymous said...

FGA,
apology accepted, w no hard feelings.

> Who says the FPM and the FM have nothing in common?!
Akid not me!

They both have followers ready to throw logic and reason out the wall just to see their leader get what he wants
They both have a leader who would rather see Lahoud stay in power then let the other party have his way.

But I suppose you were trying to imply something else. ;-)

TAC