Tuesday, August 15, 2006

Back to Square One

And there we go again. Just like how the national dialogue rounds kept on being postponed until all hell broke loose, now we're witnessing a postponement upon postponement of the Cabinet meeting since the Cabinet ministers met last when they agreed to UNSCR 1701, with some reservations (ma3 ba3d al-tahaffouzat). It's becoming clear that "some reservations" is not to be dismissed of, it's what will make and break the Lebanese state's will.

Add the second consecutive postponement of the Cabinet meeting with what Syrian President Assad said today, and you'll start to sense bleakness on the horizons.

President Assad basically claimed Hizbullah victorious and added that some political factions in Lebanon, namely the March 14 coalition, have encouraged Israel to attack Lebanon to disarm Hizbullah and that this coalition is the same one that wanted to sign a peace treaty with Israel back in 17th May of 1982 and so they bear responsibility for their country's destruction. He also said that the Lebanese who want to disarm Hizbullah have failed and their fall is near.

President Assad's words are significant for pro-Syrian politicians in Lebanon and are a sign to unleash the propaganda war.

Please don't tell me that we're not back to square one? And what did Israel achieve with its hasty and brutal attack on Lebanon? It only emboldened Syria and Iran and made out of Hizbullah's arms, resistance arms.

"Nobody knows how many rebellions, besides political rebellions, ferment in the masses of life which people earth."


Μαύρος Γάτος said...

Okay, everybody is a winner. The only losers are the 1000+ dead Lebanese civilians, the wounded, the homeless, the refugees....

I would like to rejoice for peace, but realistically speaking, what peace, how long is it going to last? I sincerely hope forever, but listening to the persons in power I am very, very afraid. I will cry along with Raja ENOUGH, Nasrala, Olmert, Assad, Ahmedadji.....etc, Bush, Blair, etc!


1earth said...

"Please don't tell me that we're not back to square one? And what did Israel achieve with its hasty and brutal attack on Lebanon? It only emboldened Syria and Iran and made out of Hizbullah's arms, resistance arms.

Here we go again, "Israel's attack"!. Once again you Arabs are blind to the concept of personal responsibility and cause and effect. What a twisted world you live in, a universe where Lebanon's attack on Israel is "Islamic Resistance" but Israel's self defense is an "attack." And black is white and up is down to Arabs...

And "hasty"? You Hezbollah supporters claimed Israel was preparing to attack Lebanon anyways. You are a real comedian.

If Israel didn't respond Syria and Hezbollah would have still claimed victory, and it would only be a matter of time before there was yet another attack on Israel. Now at least you know to run to your caves the next time Hezbollah attacks. Israel's response has set a precedence for any state that wants to take Israel hostage.

arik cohen said...

i'm very optimistic to hear that there r people in lebanon who has the gut to speak against nasralla and his fellows.

arik from israel

Am Yisrael Khay said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Omer (israeli) said...

I agree with the guy with the unreadble name and the black cat ;)

Nothing has been achived. Olmert is a failure for putting us a full scale war whuch solved nothing.

What did Olmert achive? Syria is threating us openly. The PL's are on verge of Intifida III. And HA remains the tactial arm of the Iranian.
Olmert is a fool and i hope he pays the price soon, and looses his precious PM seat.

I like loli say, we can only try and control Israels policy, not HA. HA is lebanons problem.

As long as they don't become our problem again. Frankly i dont care.

The only problem is with a joint attack HA, Syria and Iran together. You'll have Olmert to thank that for, when it happens.

We in Israel need to start thinking how we defend ourselfs, from the next round.

Omer (israeli) said...

am yisrael khay,

Are you even Israeli?
How do you think that war in Lebanon, brought peace in the mind of Lebanese. If anything, they hate us more then ever.

We tried to fight HA, and all we achived is more popular support for them. And all we achived is MURDERING civilians and gettings our people killed.

We achived nothing.

Omer (israeli) said...

And no one was supporting "Zionist" casue. They hate our guts. That doesn't mean that they like HA.
There is a diffrence between supporting "Zionism" and hateing HA casue they are undermining their goverment.

dany said...

Hey Omer,

I was also wondering if am yisrael khay was an Israeli. Man, he's too good to be true for people who want to discredit the constructive Isreali-Arab conversations we are having on this blog.

Please ask him some question only a real Israeli can answer.

dany said...

I should have stuck with the promise I made myself not to listen to Nasrallah’s televised address yesterday. I might have been less infuriated today by so much bad faith and cynicism. What makes me even angrier is that so many will be led on and cheated into believing that he is for real.

1) While we thank Nasrallah for his congratulations on our victory, we think it is fair that we question the very concept of victory. How is it measured ? Did we conquer any territory or did our enemy capture land from us ? Did we inflict more damage on the enemy than he did on us ? Did we kill more enemies than them ? Strange victory indeed. It is not even a victory for HA who now has to withdraw from south of the Litani and probably disarm shortly afterwards (unless they go back on their agreement, which they are trying to do, and re-start a war with even more “victories”)
2) Should we also thank Nasrallah for his generous offer to help in the reconstruction ? So, this makes it all OK, then ? How will he repay the dead ? How will he replace the children ? Who will verify that his televised offers will be put into practice and how ? Which Shiite family from the South will dare complain, and not thank the munificent Nasrallah, when HA offers them 10,000 USD as compensation for their house which is worth 5 times more ? Where is Nasrallah going to find 15000 vacant apartments to rent for one year (then what?) and which owner will agree to enter into a “fair” lease contract with an armed milicia ?
3) It is interesting how Nasrallah’s offer came wrapped in “I am better than your legal government”.
4) Nasrallah’s fake compassion does not go as far as making real sacrifices to save the innocents. Sacrifices like surrendering the weapons that give Hezbollah (and Iran) their influence in Lebanon. Nasrallah even has the arrogance of throwing in our face the “sacrifices” offered by Hizbollah fighters , when we did not ask them for any of this in the first place.
5) How can HA (and their stupid proxy Lahoud) gloat about having only a few fighters between the hundreds of people who died ? Are civilians supposed to protect the military, or the opposite ?
6) Far from considering that the proposed investigation of the Israeli war performance as a victory, the Lebanese should be envious. We have so longed for having some kind of accountability that it hurts to see how much better the “enemy” is doing in this regards. Shouldn’t Nasrallah be held accountable for AT LEAST his “miscalculation” (assuming- and I don’t believe it for a minute- that he had the best intentions: freeing some prisoners and claiming back Chebaa, but that the Israeli reaction caught him by surprise) ? We are not even mentioning the possibility of being tried for treason because he put Iran’s objectives before the Lebanese national interest ?
7) How can Nasrallah talk about Isreali losses, destructions and economical cost as a catastrophe for them, while minimizing the unfathomable Lebanese losses as trivial, unavoidable “war cost” that can be easily restored ?
8) How can the leader of a party represented in the government issue half-hidden threats to ministers in that same government? How can he get away with “advising” us what to say, and “recommending” what it is not acceptable to say. Then again, what does someone who declares war “whether the Lebanese want it or not”, know about democracy and free speech ? We can so easily do without him administering lessons on the Lebanese people, who would have a thing or two to teach him.
9) Why is it so difficult for Nasrallah to understand that HA weapons have ceased to be an internal Lebanese matter, ever since UNSCR 1595 was issued, and especially since these weapons have hit the first target outside Lebanon?
10) How can he not understand the emptiness of his argument when he says that he has to keep his weapons because no one can guarantee that Israel will not occupy Lebanon again ? Should the Lebanese Forces militias be allowed to re-arm and station along the Syrian border because nobody can guarantee that the Syrians will not invade Lebanon again ? Should the Alsacians form an armed militia to ensure that Germany will not invade France again ? It doesn’t work that way in any country, and it shouldn’t work that way in our country. The borders are secured by the national army and international treaties. An armed militia is in fact an invitation for anything from border clashes to full-scale invasion.
11) Why is Nasrallah surprised that Lebanese are asking for full disarmament of HA ? “Even the Israelis and Americans are not asking for this at this stage !” he says. Well they are not, and we are. As a matter of fact, we have been asking for this before this war, before UNSCR 1701, before UNSCR 1995, even before Taef. Can Nasrallah read our lips? “NO WEAPONS EXCEPT WITH THE LEBANESE ARMY” this has been the cry of the Lebanese people for the past 30 years !
12) When bigheartedly thanking all those who have helped the victims of this war, how could Nasrallah have omitted the Red Cross, probably the most active on the ground ? Knowing how well his speeches are prepared, this could not have been a simple memory lapse from Sayyed Hassan.
13) Why have the past two weeks seen a change in denomination from “Lebanese Resistance” or “National Resistance” or even plain “Resistance” to “Islamic Resistance” in all AlManar bulletins and Nasrallah speeches ? Is this to more widely encompass audiences (at the expense of a few Christians who still support a Lebanese armed resistance)? Are these the latest instructions from Tehran ? Could point 11 above be related in any way to this ?

Nasrallah’s recent stance (refusing to surrender weapon) might have unfortunately been encouraged by Israel who has been sending wrong signals: agreeing to the cease-fire without the usual pushing and pulling, withdrawing some of the soldiers in Lebanon as soon as the ceasefire came into effect, and talking about an exchange of prisoners when Hizbullah thought that it was out of the question. This attitude misleads HA into adopting a harder position (which might be precisely where the Isrealis want him).

It is essential at this point that UNSCR 1701 be applied in all its points, in order to avoid either a harsher resolution, or having Israel take matters into its own hands again. Make no mistake: the world will not come to our rescue this time and Olmert, if replaced, will only give way to someone more “hardline”.

Omer (israeli) said...

Am Yisra'el Khay,

Please answer this:

Me-aifo ata baretz?

Am Yisrael Khay said...

To Omer
I am a recent Immigrant to Israel

I lived in Huntington, New York, I came here to find my self very much in touch with my missing soul.

To me being Israeli or Jewish is question of culture. Being Jewish is more of a cultural presence (it gives me a sense of community and comfort) than a spiritual one. I am not religious but I am willing to attend services on high holidays.

Thanks for your comment, any how

1earth said...

Omer, I agree that Olmert has to go, but what did Israel achieve?

Assad is afraid that Israel and the USA will come after him for his support of Hezbollah. His army isn't like Hezbollah, you can't hide a fighter jet inside a house. His precious palaces which keep him safe from the Islamists are huge bullseyes. Syria's threat is wrapped around a plea for negotiations. Assad specifically said he wants negotations first and war last. He's desperate to successfully get the Golan back. He needs his own victory to prop up his fragile government. But he can't afford to destroy Syria in the process of getting the Golan back, his own regime would crumble like Saddam's.

I don't care if HA is disarmed or not. Frankly and off the record, I like the idea of HA acting up so Israel can destroy Lebanon once and for all. Eliminate any future threat rising from the region, kill two birds with one stone.

But anyways, HA won't be going on any adventures again because Israel's response won't be a surprise to anybody. Nasrallah can't play shocked that Israel would defend itself, but again, let Hezbollah bring Lebanon to utter ruin. I don't care.

And the Palestinians? What about them? The Palestinians are crushed, their leaders and fighters dead or imprisoned and it will take another generation for them to recover.

Am Yisrael Khay said...

I thank the lebanese bloggers group since they are a great voice of the Jews. I think Jewish people all over the world thank you for this oppenion.


Omer (israeli) said...

Am yisrael khay,
I was just supprised when you Used the term "zionism". Usally Israeli's dont use this word (Its more like post-zionism now).
But i guess the word is used these days more in jewish communities outside israel then in Israel itself (Thou its still used).

This is not a blog that supports HA in general. Yes their are many in lebanon that hate them. Their are also more then ever ppl who support them, casue of their "victory".

Welcome to Israel, The only place where the jews are really free.
But you also came to the most troubled place on earth. And the worst is still ahead.
Unlike the US where wars are far away and you can cheer them with popcorn in a comfpy chair inforont of the t.v, In israel the wars are in your face and at your home.
This is not USA, we dont have the luxury of falling into delussions, are very exitance depends on it.

NassurDinHoga said...

@am yisrael khay

Ve'anahnu node lecha be'ofen ishi im tishtok vetaniach ladiyun lehitnahel beshalva. Rotze le'atzben anashim? GO TO YNET.

dany said...


Please get real.
So you want to destroy Lebanon ? You know what you will destroy first ? The very people who are equalizing the crazy, fanatical suicide bombers. The resonable ones will leave first, and you'll be left with people who LOVE to kill and LOVE to die ? Is this what you really want ? I think not.

As for the palestinians, maybe you're right and it will take another generation. Then what ? Are you in the area for 10 years only ? Because if you are, just announce it and all the fighting will stop. Those who want to kill you now will wait peacefully for your departure. They have time.

I think it's high time to start facing the facts and try to compose with reality: you just can't slaughter everybody ! So, sooner or later you need to talk to those who are willing to listen (the majority) and the others will take care of themselves.

Rampurple said...

doha... i worry we're not back to square one .... we are below that even... i fear that we're in a worst situation than in 1990

Omer (israeli) said...

The Pl's are not crushed, nor will they ever be. We shouldn't "Crush" anyone, that will only invite more trouble.
Instead we need to see how we can encourge a more resposible goverment with the PL's. One that truely wants peace and build the PL state instead of putting everything into arms with false dreams of destroying Israel.

Militiry gets you so far. At the end of the day, neither we or the PL want to fight forever.
We are smart right? So lets use our brains for doing peace instead of developing a new intel computer chip. Its more importent.

Am Yisrael Khay said...

I really didnt want to get into this discussion, because i know what you are going to say. I have heard it many times, that I am not real etc. Point being I dont care what you say.

FYI, I used to have several friends in NY, they called them selves the cedar group, they are supporters of the Lebanese Forces. Their resolve is even stronger to get rid of Hezbollah.

We mostly pinpointed attacks in the southern regions. Their airport will be open in 72 hours they said yesterday and hence if at all we have more allies.

One more point remember when the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations when he quoted their MP Hamdeh, and another MP I dont remember his name name now. Point being we have many Lebanese supporters, and this blog and Ministers Like Nayala Mouad is one of our greatest proponents. In fact some lebanese voices are doing the JOB the IDF failed to do, lets admit it. stop complaining

Israel did not murder civilians; these poor people were used as human shields, nothing more

If Sharon would have been alive, the situation would be totally different, we both now it.

Omer (israeli) said...

Sharon was a vicious man. But i do agree he had more brains and tactical insight not to get us to where we are now.

1earth said...

am yisrael khay, Sharon's still alive somewhat, but I agree with almost everything you say.

dany, omer, Muslims have become radicalized, hateful Islamist monsters all over the globe. From Indonesia to London to Australia to the Sudan to India. It's not about what Israel does, it's a cancer inside Islam. Or maybe its actually the roots of Islam that are showing as Islam regresses backwards to its war mongering origins.

Israel has to accept the fact that it has nobody to negotiate with. Even moderate Lebanese are calling for Israelis to "pack up and go", I guess you believe that's the reasonable, loving way of destroying Israel?

The only language Muslims speak is violence. Israel can play their game and win until they want new rules.

NassurDinHoga said...


As a NY kid, you had better improve your English.
"If Sharon would have been alive, the situation would be totally different" - This phrase, putting aside the question what the hell are you trying to say, is grammatically incorrect.

Yes, you don't care what I say and so on. I don't say you're not real - I just claim you're an idiot. This is much more serious an allegation.

Omer (israeli) said...

I know our problems are great. Anti-sematism in the Arab-world is growing hight. Its translating itself to violance. A few month ago the pakistani head of intelligence said that we are their biggest enemy. Why? i don't know, we never had any fight or dispute with them. BTW, they have nukes.

But much of it can be spared once we settle things with the PL's. Of course it won't solve the whole of the problem. But its a starter.

Of course, If attacked, we must be prepared to defend. But if we use our brains we might manage to avoid it.

1earth said...

As a NY kid, you have better improve your English.

You used an improper tense.

This phrase, putting aside the question what the hell are you trying to say, is grammatically incorrect.

That phrase is linguistically akward. You lost the cohesiveness of your statement by muddling your points. Straighten out your thoughts before typing.

This is a much more serious an allegation."

Fixed that for you.

Pot calling the kettle....

Omer (israeli) said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Omer (israeli) said...

What did you expect? We bombed their country (With over then 500 tons of explosives!), did you think they will give us candy?

So now you wan't to destroy lebanon? you just prove that the cycle of hate is reall.

In 1982 Isreali troops were greeted in some villages with cakes and coffe. Don't expect it to happen again.

We need to think, how we strighten things up things in Lebanon. Beirut is much like Tel-aviv. We have many things in common. But dont be suprised when moderate lebanese hate us. After all, its the same thing happening in Isreal when buses explode.

Stop the hatred.

yaser said...

this is very unfortunate what prisedent assad said about 17th ayar (may)and all that nonsence and those accusations against the real patriotic majority in lebanon which is the real representative of the lebanese unlike our illigetimate regime.
we should have hope and now that the military war is over there is a bigger task ahead of us to ensure that the democratic and peace-oriented people raise thier voice and establish peace and prosperity in the ME

Doha said...

"I thank the lebanese bloggers group since they are a great voice of the Jews."

Who are you talking about? Us? Khay, you seem so confident touting us your allies and what not. I think this is all so delusional. And then you totally dismiss those who have been killed. Your political assessments are those of a 15-year old.


Stop writing in generalizations and branding Arabs this or that. I never wrote that Hizbullah's rocket launching on northern Israel is not an attack, so the same goes for Israel attacks on our country. And yes Olmert's move to declare war on Lebanon was hasty, because as I read in newspapers (and not Arab ones mind you) many IDF soldiers confess that they were not prepared for what they encountered on the battlefield. And yes the IDF legend has been shattered in many people's views. So does that make you guys any safer? C'mon, military solutions suck, and this goes for all parties.

1earth said...

Omer, Israel's actions have no effect on the Muslims. There's nothing Israel could do to worsen or improve its image in the Muslim world. 500 bombs, 0 bombs, 500,000 bombs. Doesn't matter. Muslims don't watch and listen what Israel does, they only accept Bin Laden and his followers do and say, or the shiites with their Ayatollahs for passionate spiritual advice on killing non-Muslims. You think its possible to change the viewpoint of an Islamic hero like Bin Laden, Nasrallah or that cleric who practically got deported from England but then went to hide on a British ship during the bombing of Lebanon? Not possible. Israel is a too convenient distraction for Muslims from their biggest problem, that is, themselves.

Omer (israeli) said...

"You think its possible to change the viewpoint of an Islamic hero like Bin Laden, Nasrallah or that cleric"

No. But we can wrok on maragimalizing them. Hateful bigots will always exist.
Go look in the mirror.

NassurDinHoga said...

Actually, "You had better..." is the correct way to pose this proposition.
As in "You had better go see a doctor". It's even in the material for English Bagrut ;-)

It is also correct to say "Sharon is more reasonable *a* man than you'll ever be". This is the correct order of words (though commonly misused).

Anyway I'm not a native English speaker, and I often make mistakes. But "am" cannot hide behind this excuse :-)

Omer (israeli) said...


Fearless said...

Will ordinary Lebanese come to agree with Nasrallah , or will they ultimately blame Hezbollah for attacking Israel and thus bringing about the destruction of so many buildings, roads, bridges and lives?

In the answer, some suggest, lies the fate of the cease-fire — and of a weak Lebanese government.

For the moment, Hezbollah is bathed in a heroic light, not just in Lebanon but throughout the Muslim world. Lebanon’s prime minister, Fouad Siniora, appears unable or unwilling to force the issue of Hezbollah’s disarmament, at least in the south, as called for in the United Nations Security Council resolution that halted the combat.

Hezbollah’s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, said in a television speech that his fighters would accept the cease-fire. Yet he insisted that Hezbollah would continue to fight in violation of it so long as Israeli troops remained on Lebanese soil.

And whether Hezbollah intends to let its fighters be banned from the kingdom it built for itself in southern Lebanon, with the lavish help of Iran and Syria, is another open question.

The Security Council appears to have done its best to promote the interests of Lebanon and to diminish Hezbollah’s hold over the slice of the country between the Litani River and the Israeli border.

But the Council has passed far-reaching resolutions on Lebanon before — especially Resolution 1559, in September 2004, which called for the disbanding of Hezbollah’s fighting force and all other militias and the extension of Lebanese government control over the entire country.

That resolution had no enforcement mechanism and was largely ignored.

Hezbollah has been secretive about its losses, and though it denies Israeli claims that 500 of its fighters were killed and 80 percent of its medium-range and longer-range rockets destroyed, it has almost certainly been hurt more badly than it is willing to admit.

Over 1000 dead 3500 injured, bridges, roads, homes, villages destroyed. If that is victory what do you call defeat?

Very reminiscent of Nasser's claims after his war on 6 June 1967.

Only, now, we have Al Manar and Al Jazeera repeating the pre- packaged canrds of Hizbullah.

David McGregor said...

to all supporters of Israel on this blog
Israel is back to square one

Please stop trying to sway public opinion by posting nice messages like we bombed their country and we love them. If you love Lebanese people stop creating hatred between the Lebanese. Israel stop supporting Marwan Hamade, and stop stupporting Samir Jaajaa, and Junblat.

Lebanese people already learnt the game. I lived in a Lebanon for a while, and I understand how Lebanese people think. Its very simple. Lebanon is composed of multiple ethnicities. Israel, Syria, US, KSA, Iran play a role.

Lebanese forces support Israel/US team
Syrian Socialist Party, Amal, Communists support syria
Hezballa supports Iran
Saad Harriri supports Saudi Arabia and France
Druze party support whoever is winning currently Israel

Saad Harriri has a fight between his sunni muslim arab roots and compliance with the Israeli-US-France demands.

Hezballa has won the war. The Israeli Attack Army proved to be useless against the determination of Hezballa.

After 33 days , what did Israel achieve

Firing of the Israeli Army command Leaders (IDF, IAF)
Shalom, Mofaz announced that 'Israel' lost the war against Hezballa, "we should admit that we lost"
Israeli failed to get the prisoners by force and announced peaceful negotiations
Israel failed to stop the Hezballa rockets, the last day of the fighting featured 250 Hezballa rockets
Israel could not kill any of the Hezballa leaders
They were not able to include NATO under chapter 7, all they achieved was UNIFEL under chapter 6
Olmert publicly said that the only solution to bring back soldiers is through political negotiation rather than military action

That brings Israel back to square one, lemme know what you think about your defeat.

p.s.: Note that supporters of Israel includes all Lebanese who speak in the language of Israel as well

1earth said...

nass, k, not native English speaker here either, but Americans type English as bad anybody so am has an excuse. Though Americans are not as bad as the brits that grew up on SMS slang.

Omer, way to go on ignoring the context. You are not using your brain if you still believe we can marginalize their own leaders. You have no effect on the Islamic horde.

It was people like you that demanded Israel leave Lebanon and said that with the occupation over their would be peace, and that Muslims just want to live their lives like we do. And then you people learned nothing from that and said the same about how the Muslims in Gaza would use the opportunity of Israel's historic withdrawal to build a state.

Any seemingly rational, peaceful gesture Israel makes to Muslims is interpreted as a weakness. Muslims only understand the language of violence. Look at how they are responsible for nearly every violent conflict in the world.

David McGregor said...

Some Warefare facts explaining the Military Loss of Israel

1 Israel's Merkava-4 the powerful expensive tank lost its fame after Hezballa destroyed around 150 of them in the 33 days of fighting.
2 Israel Saar 5 and 4.5 were destroyed after being hit by an unconventional Hezballa made rocket
3 Hezballa destroyed super devora the latest invention in Israeli marine forces. (IMF)
4 Haifa was hit by medium range Hezballa modified rockets made in Lebanon, Haifa last hit in 1948
5 Israel was not able to occupy any villages even the smaller farms were still under Hezballa Control


1earth said...

David, can we have a few more of these Israeli "defeats"? I hope for a "bigger" Israeli defeat next time, you know a defeat that means hezbollah spends 3,000 rockets to kill 50 Israelis, 1/3 of them Arabs, and a defeat that puts a 20 mile buffer zone in Lebanon instead of the current 12 mile one, lol.

dany said...

OK i'll help you with this one: "marginalizing" ;)
But as nassur said, we are not native english speakers, so i guess it's OK. Which is not the casefor "am israel" about whom I am still very suspicious. A jewish american princess does not write like this.

Although I do agree that there has been quite a bit of radicalization amongst muslims, I think it would be a serious mistake to generalize this phenomenon. Many muslims are now more confortable in their western lifestyle and few woudl like to go back to the Taliban age.
AS for Lebanon, your argument for anhililating the country still does not stand since not all Lebanese are muslims.
Furthermore, we're talking aren't we ? I am christian, but many other Lebanese who are muslim have been using this blog to communicate with you and other israelis. You want to eradicate them too ?

Am Yisrael Khay said...


I wonder why you are supportive of Hezballa........any connections to the IRA

Omer (israeli) said...


Lebanese forces support Israel/US team
Syrian Socialist Party, Amal, Communists support syria
Hezballa supports Iran
Saad Harriri supports Saudi Arabia and France
Druze party support whoever is winning currently Israel

Then who is supporting Lebanon

1earth said...

dany, westernized Muslims mean nothing. Look at these dozens arrested in England, and the 7/7 terror attacks, and the 9/11 terror attacks. All perpetrated by seemingly Westernized Muslims that overnite reverted to radical Islam. Many were even born in the West, others drank alcohol and went to clubs. How can there be any trust in these circumstances?

As for Christian Lebanese, I don't blame so many of them for fleeing Lebanon for the West.

Lebanon is truly a failed artificial state. France created it to be a Christian majority, Francophile ally of the West, an outpost of Europe in an increasingly hostile middle east. But it's really just western Syria, even Lebanese seem to have accepted that fact by focusing their hate on Israel rather than Syria which holds hundreds of Lebanese prisoners and refuses to draw a border.

An Italian journalist in Beirut reported:

Trying to find our bearings, my husband and I went into an American-style cafe in the Hamra district, near Rue Verdun, rated as one of the most expensive shopping streets in the world. Here the cognitive dissonance was immediate, and direct. The café's sophisticated clientele was celebrating, laughing, cheering and making jokes, as waiters served hamburgers and Diet Pepsi. Nobody looked shocked, or moved. They were excited, very excited.

An hour later, at a little market near the U.S. Embassy, on the outskirts of Beirut, a thrilled shop assistant showed us, using his hands, how the plane had crashed into the twin towers. He, too, was laughing.

Once back at the house where we were staying, we started scanning the international channels. Soon came reports of Palestinians celebrating. The BBC reporter in Jerusalem said it was only a tiny minority. Astonished, we asked some moderate Arabs if that was the case. "Nonsense," said one, speaking for many. "Ninety percent of the Arab world believes that Americans got what they deserved."


David McGregor said...

to lebanese non-believers and Israeli supporters alike
1 earth,

there is no buffer zone right now, they army of HA, is 5000, the army of Israel 150,000
you have all the military power in the world, they have modified weapons from the 60s
Now tell me how come there were 250 rockets that landed on Israel the last day of the fighting
tell me how is the HA radio and tv station is alive, where are they broadcasting from, Israel :-)
your 22 ton bombs did nothing to deter their capability
the money that is going to flow into Lebanon right now from Iran and KSA will fuel their economy, while the US gave you some smart bombs tell me what economy are you going to fuel. Israel is a victim of the US policy, if israel goes to peace they can control all their neighboring states by the power of economy instead they keep fighting and fighting and spreading hatered.

The invincible army is now defeated, this clash although it cost lebanon many lives, shall augment the fury of the Arabs and give hope to defeat the state

Good point, the only people supporting Lebanon which was a state created by the French and the Britons are the moderates from each faction. Unfortunately these are no more than 30% of the whole population

1earth said...

Am Yisrael Khay said...


I wonder why you are supportive of Hezballa........any connections to the IRA

Not likely Am,

David McGregor doesn't write like a native English speaker. I bet he's ashamed to admit he's Arab so he pretends to be Irish American. I mean when a Muslim or Arab tries to spread propaganda about Israel, nobody takes them seriously. He knows that.

Omer (israeli) said...

"The invincible army is now defeated, this clash although it cost lebanon many lives, shall augment the fury of the Arabs and give hope to defeat the state"

Cross your fingers and take a deep breath, The Me will stop being Liviable for everyone, soon.

Don't miss it out on primetime t.v ;)

dany said...


I am sorry to have missed you while you were in Lebanon. I would have knocked some sense into your head.
Obviously, you did not see or talk to anyone here. Or did you live in Lebanon for 20 minutes waiting for a connecting flight ?
Anyway, thanks you gave me a good laugh. Israel supports marwan hamadeh...HMM sound a bit like Bachar Assad's speech, earleir today.
Israel support Geagea; where have you been for the past 17 years dude ? Did you know Geagea has been to jail for 12 years ?

All I can hope for is for more Hizbollah victories like this one (this time we will not let them hide behind us, to give them a taste of their victory). You know what: I even wish a victory for you my friend !

I would like to correct some typos in your text:
-they were 15,000 Merkavas destroyed not 150.
-Also thirteen isreali aircraft carriers were sunk by Hizbullah-modified firecrackers.
-Hezbollah has developped in-house ICBMs with nuclear capacities.
-...and a space shuttle, without anybody's help !

I am sure AlManar would never have the guts to interview you !

NassurDinHoga said...

Funny media - Recommanded for all

Check out the article, compare to the chosen headline. This is ABC, allegedly a serious media network...


Ha! First prize in the field of disinforming the public.

David McGregor said...


Stop trying too hard... :-)

You present an awful, terrible dinosaurian irony

Fearless said...

Still meddling in Lebanese affairs.

Assad Accuses March 14 Forces of Inciting Strife by Asking Hizbullah to Disarm
Syrian President Bashar Assad said Tuesday that Lebanon's anti-Syrian parliamentary majority is responsible for Israel's war on Lebanon and accused it of inciting strife in the country by asking Hizbullah to lay down its arms.
"Saving the present Israeli government is among the tasks of these (March 14) forces. After the failure of this war, these forces want…to provoke strife in Lebanon by trying to disarm the resistance," Assad said in a speech at the opening of a journalists' conference in Damascus.

He said that the March 14 forces "barely waited for the blood to dry before they started speaking of removing the arms of the resistance. But they have failed and their fall is not far away."

"They are the ones who bear responsibility for the war and the destruction," Assad charged in his hard hitting speech.

The Syrian leader, in his first major public address since Israel launched its offensive against Lebanon on July 12, said that America's plan for a "new Middle East" has collapsed after Hizbullah's successes in fighting against Israel.

He said the region had changed "because of the achievements of the "resistance."

dany said...


You're starting to piss me off.
If westernized muslims overnite reverted to radicalism, there would have been 15000 terrorists arrested, not "dozens" (most of which will be released).

I am not fleeing, and do not intend to. Nor do most of my Christian friends and relatives. FYI, most of the people who are leaving the country are muslims (more specifically Shi'a). So don't talk about something you don't know. I am not quoting some imbecile Italian journalist to pass judgement on Israel, so don't do it on Lebanon.
Historically, Lebanon is not Western Syria, but it is rather a part of Syria which is Eastern Mount Lebanon. Lebanon was there thousand of years before the french even set foot in the area.

As for the reliable info from the italian journalist: for 30 years, Hamra has ceased to be the most expensive or trendy street in Lebanon (let alone the world). Also, the American embassy is some 24 Km outside Beirut, and there is no shop anywhere near it ! On the weeks following Sept 11, it was impossible to even come close to the embassy.
You know what, i doubt that this journalist has ever been in Lebanon, otherwise he must have seen some scared, wide-eyed people worried at what 9-11 would bring them.

As for what happened in Jeruslaem, I really don't know and don't care, but I have heard that many Israelis were not so devastated and some were saying: "now the americans will know what it feels like"

Omer (israeli) said...


About propoganda.
I have no idea how many Merkaba Tanks were destroyed, but alot were hit and still stuck in south lebanon. The IDF doesn't tell us how many!!!
The russian made anti-tank missile AT-7 were fired from 2-3 KM range, Hiding in ambush bunkers. They hit about 2 tanks a day (about 40-50 tanks is more reallistic). Some of these hit hard, some modertly.

BTW, the russian have it hard now, as both US and Israel demand explantion for the supplies. The deal with syria-russia was on the basis that they dont end up with HA.

Only 1 saar ship was hit (for sure). HA claimed to hit 3, LOL.
No devora were destroyed (at all).

While its obvious that HA are lying in many things, so are the Israeli ("victory" in bint jabel). 500 dead HA fighters, is exggarated, im sure. But im also sure HA are hiding their real losses. For instance the commando operation in Tyre was VERY sucsfull, and HA didnt aknowladge their dead there (about 18). I know this first hand.

But i doesnt matter. Both Israel and HA will get over there losses (which in any case isn't enoght to "deafeat: anyone). Both sides will get ready for the next round, and try to out smart the other side.

All this war brought is more war in the future. And the only winner is death.

Akiva M said...

Hmm . . . "David McGreggor"'s post on his blog? Titled "Am Yisra'el khay"

American jews don't spell the hebrew word for life with a "KH", btw, or a Y. They spell it "Chai". Non-religious ones would actually spell it "hai"

Huntington, NY, huh?

dany said...

Thank you Akiva..
Hate to say "i told you so"

I rest my case !

dany said...


I totally agree with you. Both sides are lying and I guess that's fair in war.

I was just trying to say that there is a limit beyond which lies become ridiculous.

I just hope we can be samrt enough to avoid the next round. One sure way is NOT to claim that any side has won.

dany said...

BTW what does Am Yisra'el khay mean ?

Omer (israeli) said...


"Am Yisra'el khay " = the people of israel live on

dany said...


dany said...

I just realized how close that is from Arabic: Kaoum Israil Hay

dany said...

So now I'll say to you: Am Loubnan Khay

Omer (israeli) said...


Ya, both langauges are semetic.

Omer (israeli) said...

Kaoum Loubnan hay.


Max said...

Some input for Raja.

You obviously love Lebanon, and are not a "zionist" as some here imply. However, you and those who share your views seem to have serious cognitive problems when it comes to HB+Lebanon.

You keep saying that HB is this fringe organization that speaks only for 0.000013% of the population, and that they are nothing more than puppets of Iran/Syria/whatever. Underestimating the importance of internal affairs is the biggest blunder that all "intelligencia" living abroad makes. HB is NOT a fringe organization - it has overhelming support of the Shias, easily won a third of the pairlament, and on a good day can probably carry the majority as well. HB is NOT simply a "puppet" of Iran - to think that, is to be "totally divorced from reality", as they say.

Go to a site that collects press articles on Middle East affairs, like antiwar.com - articles from BBC, London Times, NY Times, AP. Posters of Nasrallah in every window of the Lebanese refugees' apartments and at every shop door. Articles citing "decisive and overhelming support of Hezbollah among the refugees".

Misunderstanding the root of problems makes any effort to correct them futile.

lebinusa said...



Omer (israeli) said...

"HB is NOT simply a "puppet" of Iran - to think that, is to be "totally divorced from reality", as they say."

Well i agree. But then they are more like an independent state: passports, school system and leadership on the model of Iran.

In any case they are "Little Iran".

From the "Zionist"

GSH - Observer said...


your idea of "margenlizing" the radicals is the ONLY REAL and PRACTICAL solutions.

trying to destroy radicals doesn't work, Radicals strive on death (even their own death).

By engaging and educating the young generations and teach them tolerance and appreciation to mankind - these notions are a fundemental part of every religion - we can drive them away from radicalism, and thus depriving the radicals from their weapons (i.e. the ignorant masses).

Force is never the answer for these guys. the more you kill them the more hate comes out of them...

We have tried war in our region for many many years against each others and agains minorities and no one was able to "exterminate" anyone...

Let's face it, no one is going anywhere, we are all stuck together and we need to find a way - the least destructive way - to get people away from radicalism towards teh common sence.

Omer (israeli) said...


Welcome back :)

GSH - Observer said...


if you're going to converse with the opposite side who are you going to talk to?
why even bother to talk at all.

lebinusa, it seems that you're following the USA foreign policy which is leading th world to nothing but stupidity and destruction

GSH - Observer said...


thanks man.

abou al jamejem said...

David Mcgruger, man you should be working for Al Manar TV because you are inspired by their propaganda. or you should be joining HA. To your knowledge Israel killed at least 500 HA fighters, and the reason you can not see that is because they all wear civilian cloths. Israel could actually name 200 HA that it killed. Israel kidnapped 15 HA fighters. Isrel destroyed all the infrastructure for HA. do you know who is the biggest loser in this conflict, Lebanon, thanks to HA.

David McGregor said...

Its Yiddish my dear earnest,

The title goes to show Israeli lovers are warmongers

I dont know much about your background Dani, but its surprising that one person loves the destruction of his own people.

Omer (israeli) said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
David McGregor said...


I love the flag in the background, are you sure you have the right one?

FYI, www.haaretz.com/careers

Max said...

Omer (israeli) said...

Well i agree. But then they are more like an independent state: passports, school system and leadership on the model of Iran.

In any case they are "Little Iran".

From the "Zionist"

I'm not here to take sides, anti-zionism or anti-anything, I just tried to point out one problem that Raja has.

I loved it when Raja and his supporters say "Oh, beautiful peaceful Lebanon! etc, etc" while HB has been hoarding all kinds of ammunition and dug miles and miles of tunnels in - oh wait - Lebanon! It can't be! Right? Because everyone knows that Lebanon is beautiful and peaceful, and HB is only a tiny minority organization married to Iran.

People do not like to acknowledge that anti-Israel sentiment is extremely strong in ALL muslim ME countries - from democratic Turkey all the way to the oil monarchies. As these problems are not addressed nothing will change.

Omer (israeli) said...


"The title goes to show Israeli lovers are warmongers "

Yup, and we use the blood of little children to cook Mattza. Oh, dont forget me dominate the world Via the Freemason. Muhahahaha.

We have little horn as well, Shh, dont tell anyone. All and all we are scum. Better to just kill us all, ya?

David McGregor said...


I liked your logic thus far. ........ your last comment, I am not so sure I am interested in responding.

Omer (israeli) said...

In israel we know very well how much we are hated throut the arab-world.
We see the arab media, full of hate. We hear the genocidal threats. We watch as we get dehumanized. And it reminds us of strong flavour of germany of 1939...

It pushes us into defencive reactions. And then the arabs ask us why we need so many weapons. Well with about 20 countries regularly threatning your life in various degrees, what do you think we think?

But i don't consider every critism as anti-sematism. I think for instance that the PL's should have gotten their independece years ago. But fact is most Israeli find it hard to give a country to ppl who claim the next step is to exteminate them.

The slogan after WW-II and holds till this day (translation from hebrew): "Never again will we be buthchred like cows in the pen".

Lebnese Liona said...


can anyone explain to me a little about the March 14 coalition, who is that group?

Thats not the cedar revolution is it?

Sorry I have been out of the loop with some of these movements since i left lebanon in 1990

Omer (israeli) said...


Point is: you can't keep dehumanizing us, it will bring no peace.
Reallity, is more complex then it seems. We were both fed a one sided version of history. It does nothing then create hatred, fear and war.

Do you really think we are war mongers? Do you think we enjoy dieing and killing at wars? Do you think we dont just want to live our life, raise children, goto work and enjoy an evening with our family? Do you know anything about are values?

We are humans, like yourself.

Solomon2 said...

And what did Israel achieve with its hasty and brutal attack on Lebanon? It only emboldened Syria and Iran and made out of Hizbullah's arms, resistance arms.

Certainly Israel achieved more than that. The pernicious thing about false propaganda is that even if you don't believe it, it puts certain interpretations at the top of your mind, and to avoid dissonance your mind may eventually adjust accordingly. Israel destroyed much of Hezbollah's fixed infrastructure, used up or eliminated thousands of its rockets, killed hundreds of its terrorists, and the cease-fire left Israeli soldiers unchallenged as they bathe their toes in the Litani.

It seems the shock of war and the constant pro-Hezbollah propaganda have freaked the Lebanese into thinking that Hezbollah is stronger, when it is in fact weaker and more easily challenged than before - for the moment at least, before its fighters are reinforced and re-equipped. The sooner the Lebanese move to confront Hezbollah, the more likely the chance of success and at the least cost. I don't think Lebanon can rely on Israel to do it for them, and the French now say that disarming Hezb must come before they deploy, not after - indeed, according to Le Monde, it was always the French intention that Hezbollah emerge intact from the cease-fire!

The Israelis feel more secure than before. The ball is now in Lebanon's court, even more than it was after Hariri was assassinated.

GSH - Observer said...

March 14 are the Cedar revolution

David McGregor said...

Omer you say:
Do you think we dont just want to live our life, raise children, goto work and enjoy an evening with our family? Do you know anything about are values?

We are humans, like yourself.

Then you should ask your government to return the Lands of Lebanon, exchange your prisoners, return the golan hieghts, and if arabs continue to fight you, i am willing to join the IDF. BTW I dont believe in Palestinian state because they can never control it. They should accept to live with the rest in Israel.

Omer (israeli) said...

We gave sinai back to egypt, and got peace.
We gave water and small pice of land to jordan, and we got peace.

Do you really think, that 38sqkm of land and 15 prisinors is a good reason why not to have peace?

Most Israeli would be happy to give that little just for peace on its northern border. But not with a man who declares he want's to exterminate israel?
Even worse, The Leabanese goverment isnt even an option, since they have no control over their southern border.
If we cant get some peace, then why give anything?

Omer (israeli) said...

I don't think the HA is in any mood for peace.

Max said...

Omer (israeli) said...
In israel we know very well how much we are hated throut the arab-world.
We see the arab media, full of hate. We hear the genocidal threats. We watch as we get dehumanized. And it reminds us of strong flavour of germany of 1939...

Omer, I was talking about people in the West. When they see the Iranian president, they think he is an elitist, who imposes his views on the Iranian people. They forget about that little thing the Iranians practice, called democracy, and that many Iranians support his views.

IMO, the ME conflict is viewed by the muslims as a struggle against western imperialism, where Israel plays the role of reminding the westerners of their anti-semitic guilt. This is why so much rejection of Israel and zionism among the muslims, especially after WWII. What are your thoughts?

(BTW, pleasure to talk to you!)

Omer (israeli) said...

My thoughts.

Will they ever let us live in peace? Will they ever recognize that Israel is our home, even if my grandfather was an "imperialist". I was born in Israel, my family and friends are here. I have no other place to go. This is my home. Will they ever see that through the smoke screen of anti-israelism?

Omer (israeli) said...

I'm sorry my house is not about a "struggle against imperialism". its simply the place i live.

Shmulik said...


Iran is not a democracy. Perhaps they voted for Ahmednijad but the real power (weapons and foreign policy) are in the head of the not-elected religious leader Hamenai. This doesn't make them any less dangerous and hateful.

Doha said...

There should be a difference between a truce and a peace treaty.

I believe that the Lebanese can opt for the truce option, the peace option comes later. I think we have suffered the most, apart from the Palestinians, from Israeli aggression throughout the years. And what happened this past month was so intense and will be difficult to erase so readily. And then after the peace treaty, normalization of relations will probably take years to achieve.

Shmulik said...


I am sorry but as long as you let HZB continue to serve as a bridge-head for Iran there will be another provocation several years down the road and there won't be a truce. Maybe the war won Israel several years respite from HZB attacks (I guess we'll disagree about that) but we all know Nasaralah won't disarm and already refuses to do so. I hope I am wrong but I believe this is not a real truce.

Max said...


I was not implying that Israel is imperialist. Israel was important in making peace in Europe possible.

I was saying about what the muslims might think. In a nutshell their premises and conclusions:

1. The West was and is deeply anti-semitic.
2. The West was and is imperialist.
3. Therefore, the establishment of the state of Israel is a continuation of the imperialist policies of the West.

Omer (israeli) said...

They can think what they want. But I'm no ones policy.

1earth said...

Max, you are basically right but you highlight how flawed Arab "logic" is. Right now to the basic premises it's severely flawed. Arabs end up contradicting themselves too, as usual.

1. The West was and is deeply anti-semitic.
2. The West was and is imperialist.
3. Therefore, the establishment of the state of Israel is a continuation of the imperialist policies of the West.

1) True. But so what? Muslims are equally anti-semitic. The Arabs in Palestine begged Hitler to come and kill their Jewish neighbors. The Arabs in North Africa built concentration camps for their Jews that lived in the Middle East for thousands of years. That's why their can't be a one state solution ever, Muslims turned against their ancient Jewish neighbors too quickly.

2) True but so what? That's an erroneous premise. Jews had settled in the region under the Ottomans. It was the British imperialists that banned Jewish immigration even though Jews owned much of the land already.

3) False. The West did not establish Israel, the UN officially did. Remember, it was the West that put an arms embargo against Jews getting weapons to defend themselves. So the Arabs are once again giving the West too much credit. But even before the UN drew the partition plan the Jews were running their own de facto state. That's what the UN partition plan was based on. Israel would have existed with or without world recognition. It has survived a world trying to destroy it through arms embargos and active aggression.

z said...


Amon Ra said...

In Iran, Mr Ahmadinejad said Hezbollah had foiled plans to forge a Middle East dominated by "the US, Britain and Zionists".

"God's promises have come true," he told a cheering crowd in the north-western city of Arbadil.

"On one side, it's corrupt powers.... with modern bombs and planes. And on the other side is a group of pious youth relying on God."


ΜΕ has been dominated by UK, Italy France and later on US since the gradual decline of the Ottoman Empire because of the oil. But the fact he is currently using this kind of discourse is going to isolate him further and further.

It is always beautiful to hear corrupted people talking for other corrupted people. And of course... What a great victory indeed...

Can anybody inform if there has been any progress regarding the prisoners???

GeorgeBest said...

does syria and iran make ovens? the resistance needs some now to finish this forever.

ibn nagrela said...

[Israeli leaflets blaming Nasrallah]] appeared to have little effect on [Lebanese] refugees packing up their belongings and heading south, expressing their hatred for Israel — and, to a striking degree in this normally Western-leaning nation — for America, which is seen as the Israelis’ unquestioning backer.

"Bush did this," said Majid Kubaisy, standing in the broken glass and rubble of his sportswear shop in a largely Shiite area of southern Beirut. Like many of the people who were finding their way back to their old neighborhoods, Mr. Kubaisy blamed the United States as much as Israel for the destruction, saying the conflict had only redoubled his allegiance to Hezbollah. "If Nasrallah will raise his hand, everyone will follow," he said. "This time we defended our land, next time we will take the offensive."

In Sanayah Gardens, a nicely groomed park in an upscale Sunni neighborhood of West Beirut, the 7,000 mostly Shiite refugees who had set up a tent city began to leave for home. The tents that had crowded the garden were taken down, and people were piling mattresses and cooking gear in their cars to leave. Young, Western-educated volunteers brandishing clipboards moved about efficiently Monday as a truck unloaded Red Crescent boxes of aid from Kuwait."Why does your government give bombs and intelligence to Israel?" asked Rahih al-Tiwwi, one of the volunteers.

Nearby, a family in a packed minivan was loading up with foam-rubber mattresses. The front of the van was decorated with a portrait of Sheik Nasrallah and a bumper sticker that depicted a rocket with the slogan "the divine victory." The volunteers who ran the park refuge were an ad hoc group that spanned Lebanon’s religious divisions. Asked for his religion, normally an important aspect of identity here, one of the volunteers, Saarjaoen Vautter, snapped, "I am Lebanese." "And damn for this question," he added. "No offense."

ibn nagrela said...

ex-cia american-

What is truly remarkable is that Hizbullah displayed far more discipline on the battlefield than Israel. Most of the people killed by Hizbullah were soldiers, not civilians. Israel cannot say the same. Moreover, Hizbullah turned off the rocket attacks when the ceasefire arrived while Israel continued bombing Beirut. Bombing Beirut may help Israel feel good at a visceral level but it accomplishes nothing in terms of tactical or strategic objectives. In fact, it achieves the opposite result. It unites the people of Lebanon--Shias, Sunnis, and Christians--against Israel. On this count, at least, George Bush's promise to be a uniter not a divider has turned out to be true. As an enabler of a foolish Israeli policy Bush has helped unite the Arab world against Israel and around Hizbullah. Hopefully he does not have the same "success" in Iraq.

ibn nagrela said...

hrh prince hassan bin talal-

The roots of that Arab anger and disillusionment which allows legitimacy to be handed over to extremists cannot be ignored. Terrorism is a tactic borne out of a perversion of lines of representation. If we do not allow the many to speak, then the violent few will scream to be heard. It may be difficult for most Israelis to admit, but the Shi'a of southern Lebanon became politicized and militarized only in response to repeated Israeli aggression.

The citizens of Israel and the other states in the Middle East must be honest about the effects of decades of abuse of people and of international law, unless you believe that we Arabs possess a unique terrorist gene, which has ignited our responses in recent decades. If this is the case, then throw firewood on the blaze and let our region burn until you have killed or exiled every last Arab in your neighborhood.

The founders of Israel and, indeed, the United States, fought what they perceived as an occupation. Recently, some Israelis commemorated the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 as a landmark act in ending the British Mandate. But surely this must be defined as an act of terror. A statement in the British House of Commons at the time described the attack, in which 92 people were murdered, as "one of the most dastardly and cowardly crimes in recorded history."

The Lebanese have been damned to repeat this phrase to describe attacks on their country. But in our world, righteousness belongs to the victor. If this is the way of the new world order, and international law no longer has a place - then, by all means, the extremists on all sides must fight to the death. The question is what can usefully be won in such a scenario? The evils of pain, suffering and moral bankruptcy are all the spoils of our new-world fighters.

The traumatic effects of the collective punishment of civilian populations will be felt for generations to come. The Israeli Defense Forces that occupy have made terror a daily reality for the civilian populations of Palestine and Lebanon, populations who have lived and continue to live under illegal occupation. For the other side of this global war on terror, violence is most often something to read about. The threat of terror is fetishized by media and politicians, and provides a scant excuse for policies that make terror a daily reality in the lives of millions of people in the Middle East.

No one can ignore the pain and suffering of the Israeli people in recent weeks, but the policies of disproportionate reprisal and abuse of humanitarian norms can only beget further violence. Jordan is a country that fought two world wars on the side of the Allies. We have suffered from the shockwaves of aggression on all sides and we have endured threats and terror right up to Zarqawi's terrible attacks on Amman. So do not patronize us by dubbing us allies in the war on terror and then dismiss our words when we question your policies.

The politics [of Zionism] are the product of a false perception. Our regional perspective is being ignored and, all the while, empowered extremists are gaining greater control. We must not be fooled into thinking that a new Middle East can be devised by political strategists and imposed from top down.

abou al jamejem said...

Ibn nagrela, The fact the HA unite unite the Lebanese people is totaly a lie. the matter of fact is that most lebanese uncluding some shiaa believe that HA brought distruction to the country. Christians and Sunnis were totaly against HA's actions.

Max said...


I don't think you are on the correct message board here. Try Ku-Klux-Klan or something of the sort.

abou al jamejem said...

David Mcgrouger, just tell me where the fuck are u from. I dont like people who give us advices on patiriotisim and they don't know what the fuck is going on. My dad and my brother served in the lebanese army protecting Lebanon and the Lebanese people but not Iran or syria.

ibn nagrela said...

avi shlaim-

Lebanon is the victim of the cruel geopolitics of the Middle East, with the massacre of innocent civilians a recurrent feature of Israeli military intervention in this fragile, democratic, multiethnic republic. The history of Israel's involvement in the affairs of its northern neighbor is replete with lessons about the perils of intervention.

Leaders who ignore the lessons of history are more likely to repeat its mistakes. One of the few wise decisions ever made by Israel in relation to Lebanon was to withdraw its forces in May 2000 after an 18-year misadventure. Comparisons are being drawn between the current campaign and the ill- conceived and ill-starred invasion of Lebanon in 1982. But the more instructive comparison is between the recent incursion and the strangely named Operation Grapes of Wrath, which the Labor prime minister Shimon Peres mounted in April 1996.

Both operations reflect the same predisposition to shun diplomacy and rely on military force to achieve political objectives. In both cases, civilian leaders accepted uncritically the advice of the military in order to bolster their popularity with the Israeli public. Shimon Peres, who became prime minister after the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, tried to recast himself from Mr. Peace to Mr. Security. Ehud Olmert, who succeeded the hawkish Ariel Sharon, is trying to prove that he can be just as tough and decisive when Israel's security is at stake.

The Israel Defense Force has always been influential in policymaking, but its influence today is without parallel. When Hezbollah mounted an unprovoked attack across the border and captured two Israeli soldiers, Olmert presented only a military plan of action to his security cabinet; Israel holds 15 Lebanese prisoners, but the option of negotiations on a prisoners' exchange was not even considered.

In both cases the main aim of the operation was to break Hezbollah - and in both cases the aim was unrealistic.

In 1996 the idea was to put pressure on the civilians of southern Lebanon, so that they would put pressure on the government of Lebanon, so that it would put pressure on the Syrian government which, finally, would curb Hezbollah and grant immunity to Israeli forces in southern Lebanon. In short, the plan was to compel Syria to act as an Israeli gendarme in Lebanon. Syria did not oblige and Hezbollah went from strength to strength.

The original aim of the present campaign was said to be to destroy Hezbollah. This aim, too, is completely unrealistic. No amount of external military pressure can bring about the forcible disarming of Hezbollah. The Lebanese government is a fragile coalition that includes two Hezbollah representatives. The writ of the Lebanese Army does not extend to the south and an attempt to disarm Hezbollah there would probably provoke a revolt from the Shiite rank and file.

In Lebanon Hezbollah is widely seen not as a terrorist organization but as an authentic Islamic resistance movement. It was not the Lebanese Army but Hezbollah that drove the mighty Israel Defense Force out of Lebanon in 2000 with its tail between its legs. Hezbollah empowers the poor and underprivileged Shiite community. To destroy Hezbollah, Israel would have to kill all the Shiite population.

Both Israeli incursions into Lebanon involved the deliberate targeting of civilians in flagrant violation of the laws of war. In Operation Grapes of Wrath, Israel's strategy was the equivalent of using a bulldozer to weed a garden. The commander of the current operation, Dan Halutz, is a former commander of the air force, and the leading advocate of the use of air power against civilians. Asked what he felt when he dropped a bomb on a civilian target, Halutz replied that there was a slight [sh]udder when the bomb was released and that was it. The reply speaks volumes about the depth of moral depravity of Israel's top soldier.

[Recently], in the same town of Qana, Israeli bombs killed at least 28 innocent civilians. Once again there was universal condemnation of the Israeli action; this may yet prove to be the tipping point in this ugly war. Hezbollah is ready to cease fire as soon as Israel does. America, having given Israel the green light to continue this war, is still opposed to the immediate cessation of hostilities but is working to bring about what it calls a sustainable cease-fire. So far, however, America has been part of the problem rather than part of the solution. Never in its history has Israel been subject to less restraint from America than it is today.

As in 1982, the effect of this savage assault on the Lebanese people will be to breed a new generation of angry young men dedicated to resistance.

z said...

good one Max

1earth said...

"The citizens of Israel and the other states in the Middle East must be honest about the effects of decades of abuse of people and of international law, unless you believe that we Arabs possess a unique terrorist gene, which has ignited our responses in recent decades. If this is the case, then throw firewood on the blaze and let our region burn until you have killed or exiled every last Arab in your neighborhood."

The gene is there,you don't see starving Africans blowing themselves up. Arabs are natural born terrorists, but let's hope that trait is not the dominate one.

"The original aim of the present campaign was said to be to destroy Hezbollah. This aim, too, is completely unrealistic. No amount of external military pressure can bring about the forcible disarming of Hezbollah. The Lebanese government is a fragile coalition that includes two Hezbollah representatives. "

Hezbollah refuses to wear uniforms so kill or imprison every military age Lebanese male that enters a southern Lebanon buffer zone. Problem solved.

abou al jamejem said...

To ibin negralla the 1982 invasion of lebanon was the only opportunity for lebanon to reunite. Sharon kicked the palestinians out of beirut and eventuely out of lebanon, the Syrian army was destroyed, and the all the lebanese, shiaa, sunni, and christians came i together and elected cheich Bashir Joumayel as president of Lebanon but the syrians didn't like that the Lebanese are united so they killed Bashir joumayel and they drowened lebanon with a civil war.

ibn nagrela said...

nadim shehadi-

Israel should pack up and go

What is the logic that will emerge from this war? If Israel can exist only by destroying the neighborhood, then it's time to declare it a failed state. The Zionist dream has turned into a nightmare and is not viable. If the future holds more of the same, then the time has come to reconsider the whole project. Every state has a duty to defend its citizens, but also it has a duty to provide them with security and the two are different. The prospects are for more destruction, fanaticism, violence and hatred. No unilateral separation can isolate Israel from this, nor can the region or the world live with the consequences. This seems to be the only choice, and Israel must do itself and others a favor and go away.

The occupation of the West Bank and Gaza shows a [Zionist hegemon] deprived of all humanity. The West Bank is unliveable, the population strangled into three prison clusters. Concrete barriers, barbed wires, bypass roads, human beings emerging like rats from underground tunnels, daily humiliation from hundreds of checkpoints. Gaza has been under siege since the population dared to elect Hamas, its infrastructure has been obliterated and its population has been driven to despair in what now seems like a dress rehearsal for what was to come in Lebanon.

Lebanon woke up on July 12 to a reality that can destroy the very fabric of society. Divided between those who believe in a "riviera" with consensus politics, power sharing and a weak state, and those who, like Hezbollah, see the necessity of having a fortress to resist an evil and dangerous enemy. Israel's behavior will see the logic of the latter prevail.

Yet the Lebanese system is resilient. PM Fouad Siniora, under the bombs, was able to extract a consensus for a seven-point plan where the victorious fortress accepted to go back to the political process to resolve the crisis. Lebanon still managed to challenge the U.S. and Israel through sheer persistence, and in a diplomatic tour de force it was successful in steering the UN Security Council toward a political rather than military solution. For the first time, Arab foreign ministers have been mobilized and actively lobbied international legality.

There is deliberate targeting of civilians: Israel can deny it, but at the very least, those Israelis who are doing it know it is true. Over 17,000 people were killed in the invasion of 1982, and the net result was the creation of Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad. There is a doctrine that says Arabs need to be crushed, that they can be bombed into submission, that they will eventually fall on their knees. It is the doctrine, not its application, that is flawed. It says that by terrorizing the population, they will respect us and make peace; it says that those who dare resist need to be eradicated through targeted assassination and their supporters annihilated no matter what the cost. The only lessons Israel learned is that it should do it better next time.

Three Arab countries have peace treaties or diplomatic relations with Israel, most of the Gulf states have or had commercial bureaus, Saudi Arabia came up with the King Abdallah plan offering Israel normalization - something that was not achieved in nearly 30 years of peace with Egypt. Tunisia and Morocco have excellent relations with Israel. Even rogues like Syria and Libya give out positive vibes - the former desperate to resume peace talks unconditionally. The region has a history of tolerance and coexistence; minorities, including Jews, have survived and prospered for centuries. Israel is blind to any positive developments, and this will soon make these positions and those who hold them disappear, their stance untenable.

Lebanon can reconstruct airports, roads, bridges, and factories; bury and mourn the dead, rebuild shattered lives. Israel has barely been there for 60 years, a millisecond in history, but enough time to judge the results. If the fundamental moral logic is flawed, then it is time to give up, pack up and go.

1earth said...

"Israel's behavior will see the logic of the latter prevail."

Damn Jews, they fought back when they were attacked by Lebanon. How dare they. Why won't those Jews just accept their dhimmitude and submit to Islamic rule like the Lebanese Christians do?

Shmulik said...

Ibn Nagrela

How many "facts" you present! Please don't let reality stop you.
Let's give you some examples:
1) Israel has killed more civilians than combatants- How do you know? By their on admission HZB fighters don't wear uniforms inside civilian areas and they have a long term policy of not confirming the numbers of dead fighters. You also seem to disregard the fact that the HZB fires and stores weapon in villages, thus most civilian death (even according to the Geneva conventions) are HZB fault.
2) Israel bombed Beirut after the cease-fire- Israel bombed targets in Beirut in the morning of the cease-fire but BEFORE it came in affect (7:00).
3) Arab/muslim has began in mandate Palestine long before the jews had a single rifle or had a country. How is your theory of israeli opression-terroism account for that?
4)How do you explain muslim terroist attacks against India or Russia? western colonialism? Israeli occupation?
5) King David hotel bombing- You seem to know history enough to know of the bombing but you forget to mention it was commited by a fringe group that was later hunted down by the Haganah (proto-IDF, representing 80% of the jewish forces in mandate Palestine) and turned over to the british. You also forget the phone-warning the british disregarded before the attack. In a way I don't blame the arabs for mentioning this attack over and over again because you can find about 10-20 jewish terror attacks (commited by fringe groups) compared to a list too long to count on the arab/muslim side. In a way you "confuse" the exeption to the rule as the rule

ibn nagrela said...

correction - "As in 1982, the effect of this savage assault on the Lebanese people will be to breed a new generation of angry young men dedicated to resistance - excluding zionist lackeys like raja hiding in america, cheerleading olmert and bush while those who stayed behind endure.

Shmulik said...


Why isn't there an "new generation of angry young men" agains the long syrian occupation?

abou al jamejem said...

by the way guys, Fuck Neseralla, fuck Naiim Kassem, Fuck Emil Lahood, Fuck Bachar al Assad, Fuck Ahamadinajad (the short ass looking guy), fuck Khameneii, they all are bunch of idiots that destroyed lebanon.

ibn nagrela said...

How many "facts" you present! Please don't let reality stop you.

shmulik -

i cannot help your ignorance or illiteracy. the "facts" as posted were hardly mine. the links identify the factual authors - american, jordanian, jew, lebanese.

ya. "reality." like the bush "reality" of idf victory over hizbollah that stopped your hysterical zionist aggression in its tracks?

tell me more.

abou al jamejem said...

there is a big generation of angry lebanese against the long syrian occupation, but we didn't want to destroy our country to kick them out since they withdrew under the international pressure.

David McGregor said...


I am not Lebanese; I studied Middle-Eastern politics. Hence, I am very well informed on regional issues.

Simply re-read what you wrote.................

From reading the text, It would be hard for a reader to figure out whether you are Israeli or Lebanese, don’t you think?

I dont doubt that you were born and raised in lebanon as a matter of fact your language of agrression *uck etc goes a long way to show

You are promoting Israeli wins, when they are destroying your country, regardless of the targets.........

Can you please explain.

To my mind, HA supporters are 40% of the Lebanese parliament. Moreover, they have an understanding with another 15%.
They have the support of the following parties: SSP, Amal, HA, Baath, Marada, Karami, Arislan some independents. 40% of MPs. Including an agreement with Gen Aoun,

Max said...

1earth> The gene is there,you don't see starving Africans blowing themselves up. Arabs are natural born terrorists, but let's hope that trait is not the dominate one.

In this case, us Europeans must possess the dominant terrorist gene, because we exterminated a million times more people than any arab terrorist can dream of.

1earth said...

abou al jamejem but obviously freeing 2 child murderers in Israel is more important to Hezbollah supporters like Doha and ibn nagrelathan freeing hundreds of Lebanese political prisoners in Syrian prisons. Some priorities...

abou al jamejem said...

David, thanx for clarifying for me that YOU ARE NOT LEBANESE. The fact that you have studied Middleastern studies dosen't give you the right to voice your opinion about what the majority of the Lebanese thinking. I am really upset for what happened to Lebanon and herefore I do not support the Isreilis because they destroyed my country but I will never ever support HA because they are the one who started the conflict. Huzeballa is the problem, they just keep on harrassing israel, they just don't want peace, period. They work for the Iranian interests and the Syrian Interests. Huzeballa went and abducted and killed the israeli soldiers inside their country, and any country in the world will react the same. How do u think for example if Mexico atack the US border patrol inside the United States territory and abducted 2 soldiers and killed 8 to exchange them for some mexicans crimminals, how do u think the US will respond?!!

abou al jamejem said...

David, by the way HA supporters are not 40% of the Lebanese parliament. if we assume that the Shiaa are 35 % of the lebanese popuation half of them are split between Amal and HA. for your knowledge SSP, Amal, HA, Baath, Marada, Karami, Arislan do not represent any real popular base and the proof for that is that they all lost the last election (recheck your books). Gen Aoun made agreement with HA because he wants to be a president and he wants their support and he's just playing politics.

Max said...

Shmulik>Arab/muslim has began in mandate Palestine long before the jews had a single rifle or had a country. How is your theory of israeli opression-terroism account for that?

As I undestand it, the modern Arab-Israeli conflict began in the end of the 19th century, when under the influence of zionism European jews started moving to Palestine.

Sylvia said...

Six year of preparation.
3 countiries, Iran, Lebanon, Syria,
Millions of social funds.
Hezbolla still lost and broke its own back.

Sylvia said...

Lebanese deserve Syria.
They need to be controled.
They allow terrorist to destroy their lands. They deserved to be destroyed. The world has a taste of terrorism now. Terrorists stick out like a soar thump. They might gain few Hezbolla sympathizers but they lost their way of waging wars. The world is watching Israels back now.

1earth said...

Max,Jews, mostly from the Pale of Settlement in the Russian empire made a famous aliyah to the Ottoman Palestine before zionism was even a term. And for centuries before there were ancient Jewish communities in Palestine.

The modern Arab-Israeli conflict didn't begin to decades later. In the 19th century was barren, empty, there was nobody there for the zionist settlers to conflict with. Arabs started arriving later on to fill the jobs the zionists created. Before that the land couldn't support life. The Arabs let the land of milk and honey fall to ruin.

In the 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, a litany of Christian travelers - Siebald Rieter and Johann Tucker, Arnold Van Harff and Father Michael Nuad, Martin Kabatnik and Felix Fabri, Count Constantine Francois Volney and Alphonse de Lamartine, Mark Twain and Sir George Gawler, Sir George Adam Smith and Edward Robinson - found Palestine virtually empty, except for Jewish communities in Jerusalem, Safed, Shechem, Hebron, Gaza, Ramleh, Acre, Sidon, Tyre, Haifa, Irsuf, Caesarea, and El Arish, and throughout Galilee towns - Kfar Alma, Ein Zeitim, Biria, Pekiin, Kfar Hanania, Kfar Kana and Kfar Yassif. To stay, these Jews had submitted to innumerable conquerors, taxes, pogroms and degradation. But they stayed. In 1799, Palestine was still so much in need of people that Napoleon Bonaparte championed a full-scale return of Jews.

In the early 19th century, Palestine was a backward, neglected province of the Ottoman Empire. Travelers to Palestine from the Western world left records of what they saw there. The theme throughout their reports is dismal: The land was empty, neglected, abandoned, desolate, fallen into ruins.

In Jerusalem, all reports and journals of travelers, pilgrims and government representatives during these years, repeatedly record the poverty, filth and neglect and the desolate nature of the countryside. Early photographs show lepers in rags and dilapidated buildings. Jerusalem was surrounded by marauding bands of Bedouin Arabs and had to close her gates at nightfall and reopen them at first light, a practice that was similar in Biblical times.

Some quotes from the writings of these visitors before modern times:

* Nothing there [Jerusalem] to be seen but a little of the old walls which is yet remaining and all the rest is grass, moss and weeds. [English pilgrim in 1590]

* The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is of a body of population. [British consul in 1857]

* There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent [valley of Jezreel] -- not for 30 miles in either direction... One may ride ten miles hereabouts and not see ten human beings. ... For the sort of solitude to make one dreary, come to Galilee ... Nazareth is forlorn ... Jericho lies a moldering ruin ... Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and humiliation... untenanted by any living creature... A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds ... a silent, mournful expanse ... a desolation ... We never saw a human being on the whole route ... Hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil had almost deserted the country ... Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery Palestine must be the prince. The hills barren and dull, the valleys unsightly deserts [inhabited by] swarms of beggars with ghastly sores and malformations. Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes ... desolate and unlovely ... [Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad, 1867]

Remarkably, there are photographs dating to the 19th century and early 20th century that document the development of Palestine from the desolate, pre-Zionist landscape reported by travelers to the green and productive land that Jewish immigrants created there. This web site has 460 photographs and lithographs of the period, some never before available to the public. They show how the industrious Zionists made the lightly-populated land productive and able to support the great increases in Jewish and Arab numbers that came to Palestine in the following decades.

Winston Churchill was British Colonial Secretary when he visited the Middle East in the winter of 1920-1921. Anti-Semitic elements in the British government tried to assert that the Jews were not needed to develop Palestine. Churchill replied:

* Left to themselves, the Arabs of Palestine would not in a thousand years have taken effective steps towards the irrigation and electrification of Palestine. They would have been quite content to dwell—a handful of philosophic people—in wasted sun-drenched plains, letting the waters of the Jordan flow unbridled and unharnessed into the Dead Sea."

In 1924, a few months after becoming Commissioner of the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, Elwood Mead (namesake of Lake Mead behind Hoover Dam) published a highly favorable review of Jewish settlements in Palestine based on his visits there in 1923. His article, "New Palestine," praised the Zionists accomplishments and plans, a publicity coup. Mead blamed Islam, Ottoman governance, and Arab culture for the demise of Roman irrigation systems that, according to Mead, once supported "lands flowing with milk and honey." Mead was a consultant to Chiam Weizman offering his expertise to maximize the return on investment of the extensive investments in irrigation, land reclamation, and water supplies in the Zionist areas based on Mead's extensive experience in the American West.


Pictures of Palestine before the zionist settlers. Unsurprisingly the "Palestinians" can't find a single picture to counter these photos.

Shmulik said...


It is true that in the end of the 19th century jews began to move into the ottoman empire and later into mandate palestine. The jews were mostly refugees from presecutions in Europe (mainly Russia). The point are:
1) that jews werent sent by any colonial power (the ottoman were mostly against jewish emigration and the british had a love/hate relationship with the zionists as the years progresed.
2) Most jews wanted (wisely) to co-exist with arabs (Herzel wanted a combined, democratic jewish-arab state) and only after arab resistance (slaughter of defense-less civilians) intensified the jews started to arm themselves. Thus the terror went up BEFORE the jewish armed forces were born.

Shmulik said...


I challange you to refute my points one by one (as I did to you) instead of throwing base-less accusations around.Maybe you are afraid you'll find the house-sized holes in your own rethoric?

David McGregor said...


I don’t mind your reasoning, I am inclined to believe it. My understanding is that Israel continuously abducts and kills Lebanese farmers, they shelled a water plant last year, they continue to violate Lebanese airspace, they inspect ships en route to Lebanon.

1st, How do you intend to deal with these issues?

2nd, if HA works for Iranian Interests, is it legit to say that Harriri works for KSA interests, and Junblant for US interests?

3rd, my understanding is that (USA, France, Israel) have let down (Gen Aoun. Jaja, Lahd) respectively. They left them out and about when they most needed help.

4th, as for the ultimate question of Christian presence in Lebanon why is it that Christians believe they have to be allies with Israel?

Omer (israeli) said...

Ibn nagrela,
you and earth1 can do well. You seem to understand each other.

The "time to pack and go away" was still their even before 1948. You attacked us in 1948, you attacked us in 1973, you harresed us in 1967. You never-ever exepted us here. And you forcefly tried to extrminate us again and agian. And We have " fundamental moral logic is flawed" ?

Go look at the mirror.

Omer (israeli) said...

"My understanding is that Israel continuously abducts and kills Lebanese farmers"

Can you put a source on that?

I'm quite sure its a lie.

Andrey said...

Information for your consideration:
The 3 prissoners, which HA asked to release for the 2 soldiers are:
-Nasim Nasser (an Israeli citizen, serving a 25 year sentence for spying for Hezb'Allah),
-Yehiya Saqaf (a Lebanese Hezb'Allah member who Israel claims died in a firefight but Hezb'Allah insists is still alive)
-Samir Kuntar (you all know who that is)

And a question: Is it true that al-manar showed photos of kuntar with a writing "Isn't he worth a war" ?

chuck said...

ibn nagrela,

i read u'r words, a few times. just to be sure.
what u say is the verry foundation of the words of ahmadinjad.

what u r saying here is that Israel should not exsist. that Israel should gather it's people and take them to exile, scater them around the world, dispers like the wind. because it does not have the right to exsist.

u say that Israeli people have no reason to fight for independes, that they don't desserve an independens.

u say that Israel should forget it's wish for exsistance and submit to the wishes of iran, syria or any other country to destroy it.

i understood correctly ?

u r saying that hisbala is a legitimate "liberation" army of lebanon, created in order to free lebanese people from the evil dangerous enemy called Israel, that just have fun destroying lebanese villages, every now and then, just because it can never get enough of wars.

is that right ?

i can imagine what u r like.. u must be one of those who eat, and even give around candy when Israeli people die.

u must be one of those who burn flags of Israel and the USA so people can see how patriotic u r.

u must be one of those who rationalise the holocaust as a way to make the world a better place, and why not finish what was started.

u r the reason why wars r created !
u'r words r full of rationalised hate !

Shmulik said...


Don't worry Ibn-Nagrela can't even rationalize his hate very well.

chuck said...

an anacdote:

there is a story about the sinai war against ejypt and syria in 1973 or maybe a bit earlier.
Israeli soldiers captured a few ejiptian soldiers.
after a while, when the Israeli soldiers sat down in the desert and gave food to the captives they started talking (yes, many jews know arabic), and the ejiptian soldiers said that they were so amased that the Israelis didn't have long tails, long noses and big horns on their head, like they were tought to believe...

what i'm saying is that a lot of hatred is comming from not knowing the other side, or knowing only what u r fed by u'r parants and teachers. it all begins in education.

Andrey said...

Take a look:


chuck said...

ibn nagrela,

here is a text for u. i realy don't wish to hurt anyone by this text, just to show that both sides have extremism, only in Israel it is a rejected minority, unlike Israels oponents. and the sad thing is that people on the other side might see it as a weaknes of Israel, to put those who belive in the total destruction of the enemy, as a minority.
this is the text :

"let me tell u something about Israel.
Israel never belonged to any arab people or to any arab sovrenty.

Israel was ocupied by many people - greeks, arabs, romans, turks, english - all conqourers but never owners.
allways, under every ocupation, it remaind the land of Israel.

and if u will read u'r kuraan u will find that even u'r leader, muhamad, thought that the land belonged to the Israeli people.

ultimatley, the Israeli people have allways returned to the land of Israel, because it is the only people that hadf an historic sovrenty over this land.

every place that the muslim conqourer comes to, becomes a "cry land", a land of tears.

the land of Israel was turned into a deserted land after the muslim ocupation. there was a small jewish comunity here, and a smaller arab comunity.

the turks called around the arab world for helping hands to come and make the land grow fruit and many arabs came to work for the turks. some stayed.

the british had let many to come and work for the turks.

zionists came and started fertelising the land in the end of the 19th century.
many travelers that scatered the land at the begining of this time, recorded the ugliness and the vast swamp areas, deseases and wilderness around the country.

jews turned that land into a land of beauty, a fruitfull land.
u (muslims) have come to live nearby those who built the land, and those who gave work.

we have tried for 100 years to live by u'r side in peace, live with u in peace, we even tried to share this land with u.

it didn't work.

our hands that we offered in peace u tried to cut down.

so there r some left wing people in this land who try to make them selves the saints of the world and talk about reserving human rights and pluralism, and they allow u to grow.
same thing happenes in europe.

there r 54 muslim countries in the world (22 r a members of the arab league)-not one of them managed to establish a democratic leadership.

but u r the champions of penetrating democratic countries and take advantageof their soft belly, which is the fredom of speech and human rights.

and as europe, whom gave u the oprtunity to become europeans (but u want to turn europe into muslim), there starts to come the understanding that u r not an ally but an ocupier.

a simple glimps in the world map leaves no doubt in u'r heart that the 23rd muslim country doesn't have to be established on the tiny litle land of Israel.

ultimatley u will find urself either in jordan, which is the true palestine (2/3 of the historical land of Israel that was given by the british to abdalla the beduin), or the north of sinai.

the people of Israel sem to be soft and understanding but when it feels threatened it grows stronger !
and by now, most of this people understand that u'r goal is it's destruction !

signed by a jewish Israeli citisen (female), owner of her land.

ibn nagrela said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ibn nagrela said...

yale global-

Now that guns have [temporarily] fallen silent in Lebanon and the hard part of maintaining peace has begun, it is time for Israel and the US to reconsider their view of Hezbollah. Hezbollah, or the Party of God, cannot be eliminated militarily, nor is Lebanon just another front in the war on terror, as US President George Bush tends to believe.

In the first place, Hezbollah is not just a militia or conventional army, but a social and political movement deeply rooted in its society, with a big constituency within the Lebanese Shia community that comprises about 40 percent of the country's 4 million people. Hezbollah organizes a welfare system providing schools, clinics, daycare centers and jobs to hundreds of thousands of poor Shia.

Equally important, Hezbollah provides the Shia community, historically disadvantaged and marginalized in Lebanon, a sense of identity and a source of pride. Israel’s military targeting of Shia will deepen feelings of victimization among Shiites and turn them – even further – against Israel and the West.

Liberal Shia were once vehemently critical of Hezbollah’s extremism. In conversations I had in Beirut in the last two weeks, I was surprised by liberal Shia’s defense of the radical organization against its critics. “This war is targeting all Shia, not just Hezbollah,” a progressive Shia female journalist told me last week.

Second, Hezbollah is falsely portrayed by Israel and its friends in the US as a rotten tooth that can easily be plucked out – a terrorist organization that must be wiped out. In fact, Hezbollah is a pivotal political player on the Lebanese landscape. More than a million men and women vote for its candidates in elections. The radical organization is part of the Lebanese political landscape, and there is real dialogue to integrate Hezbollah paramilitary apparatus fully into the army and resolve its dual status.

Third, since the early 1980s Hezbollah has proved itself on the battlefield against Israeli military might. By 2000 it forced Israel to withdraw under fire from a small strip of land in southern Lebanon. This time, after more than three weeks of fighting, Hezbollah proved resilient [repelling IDF forces at every turn despite overwhelming IDF firepower].

[Even if, in fact, Israel were to succeed] in killing the current generation of Hezbollah fighters, another generation would take its place, more militarized than the current one. There are no shortages of men willing to join the fight against Israel. “We will give our life to Sayyed [Nasrallah] at a moment’s notice” is a refrain I heard over and over from Shia teens in Lebanon.

Israel’s displacement of more than 1 million Lebanese people, most Shia, and the killing of more than 900 civilians guarantee an endless flow of recruits for years. Neither the US nor Israel pays adequate attention to this fact.

Another misunderstanding is that this is a proxy war against Iran and Syria. This is nonsense. Although armed and financed by Iran and Syria, Hezbollah has become more autonomous since Israel's 2000 withdrawal from Lebanon. Hezbollah, partially integrated into the Lebanese political landscape, could easily generate financial sources from within the country to carry on its social services.

Not only has the charismatic Nasrallah succeeded with an agenda inside Lebanon, he has made Hezbollah into the new vanguard of armed resistance to Israel and America in the eyes of tens of millions of Arabs and Muslims.

Nasrallah recently hinted that the recent battle was the last that Hezbollah would fight, signaling that Hezbollah leadership could be willing to accept a political settlement that addresses its vital interests. Nasrallah also accepted the UN-declared ceasefire with reservation. In a televised announcement, Nasrallah said that his organization would abide by the ceasefire as long as Israeli troops stopped attacking and withdrew from southern Lebanon.

ibn nagrela said...


In the sheltered porch, women in headscarves and long robes weep gently, whisper verses of prayer and mourn a teenager as a "martyred hero". The women are mourning the death of a 17-year-old who fought for Hizbollah against Israeli forces in south Lebanon. The mood is a mixture of sadness and exhilaration, and one of unusual calm as they are convinced that their martyr will go to heaven.

Emad Haj Ali is one of at least 100 fighters who died in the 34-day war, sparked when the grassroots guerrilla group seized two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border attack on July 12 in order to exchange them for a release of prisoners.

Dozens of women sat huddled in the small porch, and each had lost either a son, a cousin, a brother, or a nephew during Hizbollah's long history of fighting with Israel.

After the 1975-1990 Lebanese civil war, Hizbollah was the only Lebanese faction which kept its guns on the grounds it needed them to fight Israeli occupation.

Residents felt no vindictiveness or bitterness toward Hizbollah over all their losses. In fact, Ghada saw it as a religious duty to fight what she saw as Israeli aggression on Lebanese territory.

"How can we give Israel our land that's drenched in our fighters' blood?"

tony.2.tone said...

When HA emerge from this with their weapons in tact they have every right to take power in Lebanon as they are the one that sacrificed life and limb to protect this great country of ours.

While you Christians just sat on your asses and watched as your country was invaded and then come our of the shadows to snipe and complain about the increased power of HA, you Christians are pathetic.

Damn you all to eternal hell, as you do not even have the backbone to pick up a gun and face down your invader, instead you get down on your knees ready to polish the shoes of the Iraeli murderers after they have just massacred entire villages if innocent women and children, you pathetic cowards, and now you are extremely worried that HA may use their increased power from resisting for the homeland by showing you Christians as what you trully are which is cowardly lap dogs of the Iraelis.

Already in the past you did the dirty work of the Jews to protect them by forming a SLA army and torturing your onw country men at the behest of your jewish master.

Ah but thats right you were defeated by the very organization that you know are snipping it, talk about sour grapes, just dont forget that the day you were defeated is now regarded as one of the most important in the history oF lebanon which just goes to show that all Lebanon was against you and celebrated when you lost, haha.

Lastly you dare threaten a civil war if HA takes advantage of its increased power after the sacrifices for their homeland, you dare threaten a civil war when in the last civil war you were all but demolished but it was the syrians (you know the people you despise the most), that came in and fought us to spare you, this time it will be different, you will have noone to save your sorry asses when you are going to lose, and finally Lebanon can be a united country without you traiterous Christians always trying to tear it apart at the behest of your masters in Israel and the West.

So bring it on people, bring on the civil war and we can finally do waht needed to be done 20 years ago. HA

MTB said...

Tony.2.tone comments show how he has no regard for human life. No regard for people with opinions different than his. It is he why Lebanon suffers and why there will be no peace. My prayers are with the Lebanese people.

Wael Hassan said...
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tears for lebanon said...

It appears to me that many of you are very quick to judge ibn nagrela, however you easily turn a blind eye to the hateful repetitive rhetoric of 1earth. And now I will have to endure the backlash of Tony2tone, knowing damn well this is a ploy to incite further hate and most likely by Israeli propoganda...how do i know you ask?....because Muslim Hezbollah supporters WOULD NOT CALL THEMSELVES TONY!!!!But it won't matter what I say, the 'iearth's' of this site will be small minded and stupid and will believe the propaganda that he wants to believe.

So many Israelis on this blog keep emphasizing the point that Israel is not in search of war and the people of Israel are seeking peace with their neighbors, however it is clear to me that this is not the case. It is the sentiments, like the hate spewed by 1earth and ignored by most Israeli's on here (exception being Omer), that make 'the moderate muslims', retreat in our conversations with others who condemn Israel in mass and in general. It makes moderate muslims believe that it is not worth while to engage in conversations with Israeli's, because it seems that even those who are wishing peace are also engaging in hurtful and demeaning rhetoric. It makes moderate muslims, like myself, believe that the few meaningful, informative conversations with some Israeli's from my opposing opinion, was done in vain and will have no positive consequence.
It makes this moderate muslim shake her head with disgust and discouragement. I will continue to pray for peace, but the inflammatory and derogatory remarks toward the Lebanese and the Muslims,by Israelis who infiltrated this 'lebanese blog' to incite hate, have deterred me from wanting further dialog with any Israeli.

Al said...

hehe, Indeed, I just checked their software its called Megaphone, they have been sending chain e-mails to their 15,000 mailing list to come onto this web site and post

Nice try..

I am sure Lebanese christians know more than any one else, that this not the kind of talk that Lebanese muslims say, besides the english is too good, it doesnt sound like its written by an Arab..

"So bring it on people" This is soo rediculeous, TONI ASS, never imposture like a muslim, you got caught and next time you want to post, dont login from Israel... :-)

And since you are Muslim, I will ask you this question and I will dare you to answer it if you know.

Shou 2esmo Ibn El-Nabi?
Shou 2esmo 2awal fata 2aman be-islam?
Meen qatal 2emam ali?
Matha ya3ni Matawli?

If you answer these questions, I will talk to you. Otherwise my friends, YOU ARE A JEW TONI :-)

Hezballa propaganda never logs on to blogs FYI, but Israeli propaganda is all over the place.

Loli said...

Wael Hassan and Tears for Lebanon,

Like you, I don't believe this Tony is a Muslim, and not just because of his name. I am Christian; I read his message and decided to ignore it. This is not the first time someone poses as a Muslim.

It is sad how some people have so much hatred...

1earth said...

tears, the only moderate Muslim is a dead one. The rest of Muslims are just ticking bombs waiting for their excuse to justify murdering non-Muslims. The blood of infidels is required to appease the moon god Allah. You know, that meteorite cube Muslims worship as God in Mecca, an ancient pagan temple, one of several that use to be in the Arabian peninsular... It's so humiliating to be Arab... some of the most backwards, illiterate people on the planet. 3 Arab Noble prizes winners for science... Arab Muslims are outraged, they are humilating at falling behing the Christian West when Muslims are suppose to be the true believers. How could Allah punish his true followers like that? Muslims ask them questions like they are they so primative, why are Muslims so backwards, why have they contributed nothing to science or even humanity in the last 300 years, why are Muslims and Arabs laughed at and mocked by infidels that are suppose to be Allah's enemies? These outraged Muslims want to kill anybody happier and more successful then they are, which is just about everybody considering how bad Arab culture failed by getting stuck in the 12th century and regressing towards the 7th.

It's also why the UN can't even reach a definition of terrorism. Muslim refuse to condemn suicide bombings against civilian targets, they celebrated 9/11... it's not about Israel, it's global jihad. Hezbollah isn't working for Lebanon, they are a proxy of those Ayatollahs trying to restore the caliphate. Same with Al Queda. The whole world is getting sucked into two backwards Muslim tribes trying to upstate each other in the amount of infidel blood they spill to satisfy the moon god Allah.

tony.2.tone said...

Hey damn you people I am indeed a Muslim, my real name is Taher, i jsut use tony becuase its easier for everyone. Anyway I am a Sunni Muslim, actually my father is a Sunni and my mum is an Allawi, guess that makes me a Sunni as we take after our fathers. I am from Tripoli, is that enough info or would you like more, huh?

Now back to the topic, you people have the gall to come on here and criticize HA after theu have sacrificed, and then even have the audacity to suggest that it may have to come to force to disarm HA, which in effect is really a civil war.

So you threaten a civil war and then claim that you are for peace, damn thats a better act than the Israeli's when they hit a building full fo children and then claim that they didnt mean to do it even though they used a precision guided missile to do the job.

I despise the Shia in Iraq because they sold out their country to the Americans and even some of it to Iran in return so that they can be the butboys of those two countries, yet I admire the HA shia because they risk their life and limb to preserve the dignity of our country even though they have had to put up with idiots from my own sect and definately the Christian and Druze sects trying to dismantle them.

What is even more sad than watching the Christians in particular lining up to be the buttboys of the Israeli's yet again, is that this time I and many others thought that the sectarian issues in Lebanon would slowly disappear as everyone did the natural thing and defend their country while it is under attack and leave the reckoning in politics until later.

Anyone with an ounce of dignity would first concentrate on liberating their land from occupiers by putting away their differences at least until the land was liberated, but you Christians have shown that you possess not one ounce of dignity, because you have shown you are to cowardly to pick up a gun and risk yourself for the country you claim to love so dearly, and even worse have shown you have no dignity by already getting in position to polish the shoes of Israeli soldiers after they are stained with the blood of innocent Lebanese massacred in the towns in the South.

No wonder I despise you Christian traitors, your reckoning will come and I pray that it is real soon. Lebanon does not deserve traitors like you, Lebanon is beautiful.

Ron said...

"..for centuries before there were ancient Jewish communities in Palestine." - 1earth

All here (that want to know what they’re talking about) would do all well to take time to read everything on the website you point to. All of it is historically accurate. Since biblical times when Moses led the nation of Israel there, Jews have lived continuously in this land. Even during the Babylonian captivity (and other major defeats,) some few Jews were allowed to stay. It was called Judah before the Romans called it Palestine - and it was not until the 1930's that Syria tried to lay claim to it. Arabs never did own it, never settled it, never controlled it, still don't, and never will.

I’ve not been led to comment much here, as there is too much senseless chatter, much of it tangled in raw animus and deliberate lying propaganda – which, needless to say, accomplishes little more than stirring bile, while the goal of constructive dialog gets lost.

This blog and all the words typed by all, including those of myself, is not going to help change the situation in the Middle East. All the nations of the world, ‘the West,’ the UN, the EU or NATO forces won’t change it, make peace or guarantee freedom, peace or safety for the people of the current State of Israel, Lebanon, Syria or any other of the surrounding Arab states. Most government, by its very nature is inept, alternatively cowardly or tyrannical, overbearing or light-handed, depending on the character of those in government. Most people are beset by the same strictures – they are inherently good or bad, industrious or lazy, bullies or pacifists, truthful or dishonest, moral or immoral, well educated or woefully ignorant – and in democratic nations, it is the nature of the people that determine much of what fills the seats of their government.

But, it is nonetheless admirable that I see young Jewish people and young Lebanese here commiserating, consoling, and attempting to find common cause with one another. I can hope that both nations do find peace, and peace with each other. But I know that they will not until the government of Syria and Iran are both destroyed as currently constituted. That should be obvious to all with even a modicum of contemplation. But, even then, real peace and acceptance will not come until radical Islamic terrorists stop preaching hate and teaching their children that it is good to blow themselves up will trying to murder a few others around them.

Almost all who suffer from this little war, Lebanese or Israeli, know with certainty that there will be no peace come of this – and they know it is mere wishful thinking to think otherwise. They (both sides) know that there was no winner, and that both sides are huge losers, tactically, morally and militarily.

I’ve seen the words here... ‘Stop the hate’ – and they are among the most important words. There is no reason whatsoever that a majority of Lebanese cannot be friends with the majority of Israelis. They would make great allies, working together to keep cowardly Islamic terrorists out of their midst.

It would take a major movement of the majority of both nations to demand of their government honest attempts at becoming truly allied - against outside interested forces like Syria and Iran. If that were to happen, the world could hope to see a new day in the Middle East, and the Islamofacists would be dealt a deadly blow.

Such a great move wouldn’t end hatred of the nation of Israel by the much of the rest of the Arab world – but it would surely pour a lot of cold water on their jihad recruitment plans.

Have a nice ‘un... it’s time I must leave.

Ron said...
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Al said...

you are an imposter. You sign your text with Hezballa, and you are sunni, hehe, there are no sunnis in HA.

You are a Israeli

Assuming that you are Hezballa. You have to answer the questions that were posed. Guess what you cannt, you are not Muslim !!

So go home warmonger.

I want to re-iterate to my country men and women, this ass-hole is an imposter.

He tries to prove again to me with his perfect english that he is arab, tell me what town do you belong to, and dont say beirut, cos i will ask you what street and whats on the lamp post you bugger.

F.. Off, and we dont want people like you showing off garbage.

You are a part of the american propaganda, and the zionest propaganda.

Al said...

One word for every one,

Arabs are semites, check the definition.

Muhamed the profit of islam, had a best jew friend. He married a Jew, and he lived amongst them.

Most of the sunni invasions of the holly land, happend after mohameds death. I call them invasions since mohamed never asked people to invade others.

The destruction of the temple is not a mandate, however, if Israel wants to retaliate against all the
oppression they faced from the europians, they should take it out on them.

After all it was the Germans who killed 6 million jews. It was the british who deported them in a political
way to the middle east.

the french who until now hate them.

Please do not take it on the Arabs, or else your third temple will face unfortunate times.

Liliane said...

Quoting 1earth:

----Here we go again, "Israel's attack"!. Once again you Arabs are blind to the concept of personal responsibility and cause and effect. What a twisted world you live in, a universe where Lebanon's attack on Israel is "Islamic Resistance" but Israel's self defense is an "attack." And black is white and up is down to Arabs...---

First of all, if you're not looking for peace with Arabs, why do come to Lebanese blogs, I suggest you respect everyone and everyone will respect you back. Don't do the "you arabs", that's degrading... for you!

Second of all, If Israel was fighting in Israel, yeah I could understand it as defense, but when it goes into Lebanon, on the ground of Lebanon and attacks the LEBANESE Resistence, then it's ATTACKING and not defending.
Have you not played basketball before? It will easily explain to you this concept.

Last but not least, I suggest you watch this footage entirely, and then come back to reply to us.


My brother in humanity, please watch this video, I suggest everyone does.


tony.2.tone said...


You uneducated fool, point out to me where I ever said I was Hezbollah, I never said it.

What I did say is that I am a Sunni who is fully supportive of the Shia Hezbollah as they are sacrificing life and limb to preserve Lebanon's dignity and soveriegnty.

My mother is Allawi and my father is Sunni, they eloped because my mothers parents would never approve of such a marriage in those times, so I guesss that makes a Sunni because we take after our fathers. I have a whole side of cousins and aunts that are Allawi (which is not exactly Shia but very close) and the 2 closest cousins that I grew up with (we were out causing trouble all day long every day in our younger days, they were my best friends) were/are from my mothers side which makes them Allawi. I am from tripoli, you know the Sunni area that has some Allawi in it because of the days when the Syrians used to control uit and played favourites to their own contrymen who were in Lebanon to work and take our jobs.

Anyway, having said all that I cant stand the Shia in Iraq as they are sell outs, they sold their country's dignity and honour, first to the Americans and then to the Iranians. They are the lowest of the low to me.

At the same time I adore the Shia HA because I see them as fighting to preserve Lebanon's dignity and soveriegnty, and they refuse to sell out to anyone, even they Iranians who finance them dont have control over them, remember HA is made up of Lebanese nationals, that is men that were born in Lebanon, so why would they have any allegience to Iran when 99% of them have never visited that country. Iran and Syria and just useful to Hezbollah because they contribute to it, that does not mean that they control it, ultimtaley it is Lebanese men who do the fighting and dying and they do so out of resistance for Lebanon and no other.

Lastly even though I am a Sunni, I cant stand the dogs in Saudi, Jordan, Egypt or other Gulf states, these ruling class dogs have sold out their own countries so that they can mantain their dictatorships, especially the Saudi dogs. These idiots are suppossed to be the guardians of the 2 holiest Muslim sites, yet the worry more about Shia sect than they do about the infidel Americans and Jews, no wonder they are hated by virtually all Muslims outside of their large royal family.

So idiot, I dont need you to believe I am Muslim, what I need you to do is shut up and help defend your country or are you too cowardly like most of the Christians who want to polich off the blood stains on Israeli boots after they have just finished massacring a village in the south.

Al said...

ya habibi you are not arab stop it. but i want to show you how big of an idiot you are

Your discussion only serves israelis,

if you want to know Christians are the ones who defended lebanon from the turks
it was christians who refused to leave lebanon to the palestinians, in 1978
it was christians who supported syria in lebanon Like Hrawi, and many others
it is a christian president right now who is supporting HA
Gen Michael Aoun is a respected christian who works with HA on the political level

It was saudi arabia muslims, and Jordan, and Egypt muslims who approved and provided cover to the war. Including Saad Harriri and Junblat.... so how many christians you see in the list.

Our Patriark Sfair only speaks of unity, did you listen to him, compare his conversation to Husni mubarak, which is better

Yes some chritians were mislead and are mislead by the israelis, but who do you blame more, a muslim who is mislead or a christian who is mislead by an israeli.

thank and stop posting and mind your language, cos you only bring disgrace to muslims. Asshole.

Liliane said...

I don't understand how you can call each other names! How do you expect to even convince the other of what you think if you call each other names???

I don't understand this! Take it easy, el shatar inno tdalkoun me7termin ba3ed in order to reach a point. Orelse just don't go into the fight in the first place!

Masi7eh bi sib meslim, w meslim bi sib meslim, meslim bi sib masi7e, w masi7e bi sib masi7e, shou hayda?

The war just ended, either unite, aw iza la2 khalas ya3ne, bye bye lebnen!

Stop judging others actions by religion! Or at least represent your religion well.

Wayloun li oummatin taksourou fiha al tawa2ef w takhlou minal din!

abou al jamejem said...

If you guys wanna help killing Nesralla you should check these two websites, they are really funny:



ohcanada said...

My God, I feel like I just read War and Peace. If some of you spent half the amount of time working toward a solution as you do writing here, the crisis in the Middle East would have been solved long ago. Of course, there seem to be a number of you who do not want to find an equitable solution. Compromise and negotiation is a lot harder than name calling and accusations. And all the blather about each other's true identities and grammatical accuracies - it's really not so surprising that the majority of people here read the news coverage, shake their heads and turn to the sports pages. How sad.

1earth said...

Al said...

One word for every one,

"Arabs are semites, check the definition."

>>>No they aren't. Semite isn't a race. It's a family of languages, like Indo-European isn't a race. Arabs aren't even one ethnicity, they are a cultural group called Arab because they all share similiar customs and a a language

"Muhamed the profit of islam, had a best jew friend. He married a Jew, and he lived amongst them."

>> Mohammed like Martin Luther a millienium later throught if he could convert the Jews it would lend credibility to Islam. Especially since Islam is suppose to supercede Judaism. In reality Mohammed just plagiarized Christianity, Judaism and various pagan religions. Like Martin Luther he became outraged when Jews refused to accept his faith so he ended up filling his made up religion with anti-Jewish rantings and leading his followers to curse them and try to destroy them. Mohammed killed Jews for refusing to convert to Islam, he destroyed the last of the Jewish villages near Mecca. The koran Mohammed imagined of course even says to kill all the Jews.

"Most of the sunni invasions of the holly land, happend after mohameds death. I call them invasions since mohamed never asked people to invade others."

>>>But it was the rapist, pedophile Prophet Mohammed that started Islam as a war mongering empire that grew out of conquest and forced people to convert by the suicide. Jesus taught to turn the other cheek and to love your enemy, Mohammed taught to rape the 9 year old daughters of your captives and kill those that refuse to submit to Islam.

>>> The destruction of the temple is not a mandate, however, if Israel wants to retaliate against all the
oppression they faced from the europians, they should take it out on them.

After all it was the Germans who killed 6 million jews. It was the british who deported them in a political
way to the middle east.

the french who until now hate them.

You don't care about the Jews, so stop giving advice that would only serve to benefit you. Anyways don't worry, the Jews are home now in Israel. Germany is still paying for its crimes.

>>> Please do not take it on the Arabs, or else your third temple will face unfortunate times.

Third temple? You must be that troll David McGregor only he says that. David, there is no third temple, yet...

Remember, it was the Arabs that declared in 1948 that they were going to finish what Hitler started, that hasn't worked out very well for you... but if they dare come close to succeeding well, Israel will play the role of Samson in the temple, bringing it down on the heads of all the Arabs.

abou al jamejem said...

If you guys wanna help killing Nesralla you should check these two websites, they are really funny:



abou al jamejem said...

For all of you guys this blog is not for debating Islam, Juduaism, or Christianity this blog is to deal with our issues in Lebanon and how can we help our country overcome all the issues facing it. We really don't care how Jews and Muslims were fighing thousands of years ago. we have to deal with what is facing lebnon right now.

tony.2.tone said...


Ya habbibi straight back at ya, but I am still Muslim Sunni Arab and you can do anything to change that.

What I will say is that yes many muslims are sitting on there hands just watching this, but afterall they have no tie to Lebanon as we do, they have their own problems in their own countries, whereas the damn Christians claim they are Lebanese yet are more than ready to defend Israeli than to defend their own country, need I remind you of the traiterous SLA that was made up of all Christians who were paid and supplied by the Jews to specifically kidanpand torture true Lebanese citizens.

We the rest of Lebanon defeated the Christians in the past, and even though they commited the worst traiterous crimes like Sabra and Shatila and even worse teh SLA, we gave them a second chance to integrate into Lebanese society and show their loyalty to the country of Lebanon, etc. We let thos bastards stay in the country even after we defeated their SLA, we gave them a second chance and let them live in peace in places like al marajoun, yet here the come again, at the first sign of instability, they show their true colors again by criticizing the national Lebanese resistance and excusing the Jewish crimes and invasion, obviously getting themselves ready to once again be the shoe shiners of the Israeli's.

This time we will defeat you Christians again and give you no more chances, get that? So make your choice, whose side are you on, Lebanons or Israels? Choose carefully because the Lebanese resistance will ultimately be victorious and you Christians will meet the same fate as the Plestinians, that is you will be forever chased out of your homes by us.

dunes said...

LOL this so fucking funny .....
you lebanese cant even make peace with youself !!!!
you hate each other more then you hate israel...
now i get it ur not bad your idiots, your stupid rethoric is just hurting you
and in the process you lash out against israel
i suggest that before you try to say something about israel you should probobly do some house cleaning
but wait.... you did try it already and ended up killing each other for 30 years .....
lebabon alek .......

Fearless said...

They Rejoice in Teheran, They rejoice in Damascus, but here cin LEBANON THERE IS NOTHING TO REJOICE ABOUT, NOTHING AT ALL. LIVES RUINED, DEATH SMELLS EVERYWHERE, THE INJURED cry in their pain, the houses are destroyed only Nasrallah is rejoicing. He and his cronies were hidden well from the bombs, they let thec others die for them.

The war was an unavoidable disaster for Lebanon. The great majority of Lebanese who want nothing to do with Hezbollah must now live in a country that the terrorist organization will soon take over. They have the force of arms, and as Mao Tse-tung correctly observed, “Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.” It is why the ruthless can prevail on this planet, and why it is never a mistake to confront them too early.
For Israel, the war was equally inevitable. No freely-elected government can stand and watch its citizens attacked and terrorized. For years Hezbollah had been dropping Katyushas into Israel’s northern farms, without response. Since the year 2000, Israel had depended upon a final border with Lebanon, agreed by all parties through the U.N., in the hope of containing the problem. Finally Hezbollah performed a provocation larger and cockier than Israel could ignore. The capture of two IDF soldiers, infinitely more than the killing of six, was calculated to force a response. Israelis are rightly horrified at the thought of their own sons and daughters falling captive to such animals. Mere death they are accustomed to.

Those who have argued that Israel’s response was “disproportionate” should learn how to feel shame. Hezbollah fired several thousand Katyusha and other rockets, almost all of them aimed at civilian targets -- and fired them from within Lebanese villages, crawling with “human shields”. For more than a month, nearly a million Israelis were trapped in air raid shelters, while the devastation accumulated above them.

What would have been a proportionate response? Should Israel have lobbed a few thousand bunker-busters casually into Lebanon’s villages and towns?

chuck said...


i watsched u'r movie, it is facinating.

now i dare u to find us a movie that shows the other sides propaganda. just to see both sides, so we will have the comparison.
i can bring u a few movies films that show u the propaganda and the education (brainwash is a more acurate word) onthe other side, but i'd rather have u try and find some.
can u ?

chuck said...


by the way, the film u brought ends with the words "palestinians r fighting to have a state, Israel have a state, USA have a state, why shouldn't the palestinians have a stae ?"

and i agree.
even the Israeli government agrees(well, ofcourse not all of it) that the palestinians should have a state.
but first, they should agree that Israel is a state. that Israel is here to stay. once they agree on that then we can start talking about peace.

untill the 2000 intifada the violence in the palestinian territories was reduced. there were peace talks between Israel and the palestinians, which exploded by the palestinians about 3 months before the intifada had started.
before the intifada there was a conection between the Israeli army and the palestinian police, and there were joined patrols of these forces, together.
untill that time the palestinians started to build a life. build an economy. buld their cities.
all collapsed because arafat wanted to have his fight. and the people, the palestinians responded to him without thinking twice.

u know, i read the comments of palestinian supporters and of israel supporters and it's amasing to ses the difference.
in the Israeli comments u can here a lot of criticism about acts made by the govenment or by certain people that might have caused the begining of the intifada on the Israeli side.

u can see no criticism at all in the palestinian coments about the intifada.

does it mean that the palestinians r flawless ? they r the rightous and Israelis r the murderrers ?

u'r film does the same thing. it only shows the palestinian side being hurt, civilians suffering and all, and how the Israeli side and the american media shows only the palestinian terorrists. but u'r film doesn't bring any counter response to what is being said in it.
the film is a propaganda.

copy editor said...

A bleak horizon indeed, because a prolonged pause without much answers will have the following effects.

1.) Slow the UN reinforcements

2.) Raise ire in Israel

3.) Rest and re-equip Hezbollah

Liliane said...

Hi Chuck,

Let me see if I understood you right, you're saying I should go find movies about how Iran or Iraq or I donno, some Arabs and Muslims brain wash their people. Well I can find some, this happens with extremists.
Probably the palestinians seems to act righterous, and Israelis or Americans seem to criticise, well I mean if half their lives their under occupations, not being let to go in or out, being patronized, I can't understand how this will give them an objective mind.

Listen Chuck, what I understood from this footage, is that if a side wants violence to end, they should stop creating reasons for it.

I believe in peace and I believe in objectivity. This footage probably focused more on showing the bad side of American media and Israeli Media and whatever, but this is because it needs to be done! Because everything else in Israel and America is pro Israel and America!

I am in the US, and I have the arabic channels, I see how arabic channels show a big part of what is happening in Israel, and they don't hide it, and I see how they show the truth in Lebanon as well!
And then, I flip to another american media news, and what do I see?
I see them showing pictures from Beirut and talking about Israel.
I see them barely showing anything in Lebanon, making people understand that Israel was only defending themselves, and if civilians were dead it, they just mention it like me mentioning a cloud!
I saw it in my own eyes Mr. Chuck! I am against an form of prejudice, and I am against extremists in Islam as well!
I don't mind being in peace with Israel! but of course, not with the Israeli government at this moment!
I hope you understand my point.
(Please reply to me on my blog, coz I don't always check it here and its getting crowded, and I care to continue our discussion)


Probably those who are cussing each other are teenagers, make same as you, who by no meaning are mature and represent all Lebanese! There are people with senses in Lebanon, and there are those who are driven by prejudic! Just as it is the same in Israel, US, France, Germany.. Everyone!
Don't judge!

Liliane said...

And I agree with you copy editor, if things are not solved fast, we'll drown again.

Annasru Ata said...

i think its bad media in which shows Lebanese hating jews.
if isreal truly wants peace and not war then why didnt they give us all our prisoners and gave us land. that way hizb wont have a reason to stay armed. but did they do that. no. they chose to invade and kill so this makes them the ones who attacked.
bcs its funny if u consider hizb a threat to u and expect us to not to consider u with all ur weapons and nuclear weapons not to feel threatened.
in destroying us now they thought we wouldnt dare to resist anymore.

Sam The Blogger said...


Your logic is faulty. First of all, Israel has sued for peace time and time again, offered land and other initiatives for peace, and every time their hand is burned, except for a few unique cases like Egypt and Jordan. This whole war was started because Israelis themselves finally realized they will NEVER achieve peace, through settlement.

2nd of all, yes, Israel DOES have weapons and nukes and the training to use them. However, please name a time that Israel used them when they weren't just attacked or under threat of attack. Those weapons are for self defense agains the millions of enemies surrounding Israel.

Of every person I've ever seen criticize or demonize Israel, I don't think any of them have ever actually worked up the courage to share how they feel, and their version of the facts, with an actual Israeli. All these people do is monger and diatribe and feed on the lies of their leaders.

I think it is finally time for some honest discourse on the whole situation, from beginning to end. Hammer out the problems and their origins, and possible solutions, that are reasonable, and don't simply achieve the objectives of one side or another. This is possible. But not if both sides don't want it. Right now, Israel is tired of waiting for the arab side of the equation to balance out. So you have the Lebanon war.

More discourse = less death and destruction. But nobody seems to learn that.

dunes said...

burned: are u saying im a teenager ?

Liliane said...

I am not saying you are, how can I know. I said you sound like one.

Now go ahead and do what I expect you to do :)

dunes said...

burned :
so... what do you expect me to do ?
im asking becuase its nice to know people know better then me what i am supposed to do .

Liliane said...

No no, I don't know YOU per se, it's just most human beings are predictable when reacting to certain actions.

Anyway I think we're getting out of the subject of the topic, and out of respect to the owners. I will stop here.

Remember everyone! Put your differences aside, if we all care for Lebanon (top of the list), I don't see what's there to divide us!

"Together we stand, Divided we fall."