Friday, August 25, 2006

Hizballah Only Won In The Eyes of The West

Amir Taheri, an exiled Iranian academic and author, wrote a very insightful and provoking op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal today, that I believe should be read by as many people as possible. In the interest of furthering that goal, I will paste the majority of what he wrote on this blog, so that those of you not lucky enough to actually read it get the chance to.

Taheri's main hypothesis suggests, rather ironically I suppose, that Hizballah's victory was limited to within the boundaries of Western media coverage. He solicits the help of Egyptian columnist Ali al Ibrahim to articulate his point even further, by quoting him as saying, "Hezbollah won the propaganda war because many in the West wanted it to win as a means of settling scores with the United States... ."

So, how is this possible? How could any sane human being come to the conclusion that Hizballah actually lost this war with Israel (at the political level, of course)? Well, Taheri broke down his answer to that question into several layers: 1) a national layer, 2) a sectarian layer (both society and shi'ite jurisprudence) 2) and even an organizational (i.e. Hizballah) layer.

I will present his piece in a way that emphasizes these layers and highlight what I believe to be some of his most potent points.

The National Layer: Nasrallah's reaction to the war, and how he lost Lebanon

Immediately after the U.N.-ordained ceasefire started, Hezbollah organized a series of firework shows, accompanied by the distribution of fruits and sweets, to celebrate its victory. Most Lebanese, however, finding the exercise indecent, stayed away. The largest "victory march" in south Beirut, Hezbollah's stronghold, attracted just a few hundred people.

Initially Hezbollah had hesitated between declaring victory and going into mourning for its "martyrs." The latter course would have been more in harmony with Shiite traditions centered on the cult of Imam Hussain's martyrdom in 680 A.D. Some members of Hezbollah wished to play the martyrdom card so that they could accuse Israel, and, through it, the U.S., of war crimes. They knew that it was easier for Shiites, brought up in a culture of eternal victimhood, to cry over an imagined calamity than laugh in the joy of a claimed victory.

Politically, however, Hezbollah had to declare victory for a simple reason: It had to pretend that the death and desolation it had provoked had been worth it. A claim of victory was Hezbollah's shield against criticism of a strategy that had led Lebanon into war without the knowledge of its government and people. Mr. Nasrallah alluded to this in television appearances, calling on those who criticized him for having triggered the war to shut up because "a great strategic victory" had been won.

The tactic worked for a day or two. However, it did not silence the critics, who have become louder in recent days. The leaders of the March 14 movement, which has a majority in the Lebanese parliament and government, have demanded an investigation into the circumstances that led to the war, a roundabout way of accusing Hezbollah of having provoked the tragedy. Prime Minister Fouad Siniora has made it clear that he would not allow Hezbollah to continue as a state within the state. Even Michel Aoun, a maverick Christian leader and tactical ally of Hezbollah, has called for the Shiite militia to disband.

The Sectarian Layer: Powerful segments of Shi'ite society resist Hizballah's vision and authoritarianism

Hezbollah is also criticized from within the Lebanese Shiite community, which accounts for some 40% of the population. Sayyed Ali al-Amin, the grand old man of Lebanese Shiism, has broken years of silence to criticize Hezbollah for provoking the war, and called for its disarmament. In an interview granted to the Beirut An-Nahar, he rejected the claim that Hezbollah represented the whole of the Shiite community. "I don't believe Hezbollah asked the Shiite community what they thought about [starting the] war," Mr. al-Amin said. "The fact that the masses [of Shiites] fled from the south is proof that they rejected the war. The Shiite community never gave anyone the right to wage war in its name."

There were even sharper attacks. Mona Fayed, a prominent Shiite academic in Beirut, wrote an article also published by An-Nahar last week. She asks: Who is a Shiite in Lebanon today? She provides a sarcastic answer: A Shiite is he who takes his instructions from Iran, terrorizes fellow believers into silence, and leads the nation into catastrophe without consulting anyone.


Some Lebanese Shiites also question Mr. Nasrallah's strategy of opposing Prime Minister Siniora's "Project for Peace," and instead advancing an Iranian-backed "Project of Defiance." The coalition led by Mr. Siniora wants to build Lebanon into a haven of peace in the heart of a turbulent region. His critics dismiss this as a plan "to create a larger Monaco." Mr. Nasrallah's "Project of Defiance," however, is aimed at turning Lebanon into the frontline of Iranian defenses in a war of civilizations between Islam (led by Tehran) and the "infidel," under American leadership. "The choice is between the beach and the bunker," says Lebanese scholar Nadim Shehadeh. There is evidence that a majority of Lebanese Shiites would prefer the beach.


There was a time when Shiites represented an underclass of dirt-poor peasants in the south and lumpen elements in Beirut. Over the past 30 years, however, that picture has changed.
Money sent from Shiite immigrants in West Africa (where they dominate the diamond trade), and in the U.S. (especially Michigan), has helped create a prosperous middle class of Shiites more interested in the good life than martyrdom à la Imam Hussain. This new Shiite bourgeoisie dreams of a place in the mainstream of Lebanese politics and hopes to use the community's demographic advantage as a springboard for national leadership. Hezbollah, unless it ceases to be an instrument of Iranian policies, cannot realize that dream.

The list of names of those who never endorsed Hezbollah, or who broke with it after its Iranian connections became too apparent, reads like a Who's Who of Lebanese Shiism. It includes, apart from the al-Amins, families such as the al-As'ad, the Osseiran, the al-Khalil, the Hamadah, the Murtadha, the Sharafeddin, the Fadhlallah, the Mussawis, the Hussainis, the Shamsuddin and the Ata'allahs.

The Organizational Layer: Factional tensions exist within Hizballah

Before he provoked the war, Mr. Nasrallah faced growing criticism not only from the Shiite community, but also from within Hezbollah. Some in the political wing expressed dissatisfaction with his over-reliance on the movement's military and security apparatus. Speaking on condition of anonymity, they described Mr. Nasrallah's style as "Stalinist" and pointed to the fact that the party's leadership council (shura) has not held a full session in five years. Mr. Nasrallah took all the major decisions after clearing them with his Iranian and Syrian contacts, and made sure that, on official visits to Tehran, he alone would meet Iran's "Supreme Guide" Ali Khamenei.

Sectarian Layer (2): Significant disagreement exists with Nasrallah on matters of Shi'ite Jurisprudence
Mr. Nasrallah was also criticized for his acknowledgement of Ali Khamenei as Marjaa al-Taqlid (Source of Emulation), the highest theological authority in Shiism. Highlighting his bay'aah (allegiance), Mr. Nasrallah kisses the man's hand each time they meet. Many Lebanese Shiites resent this because Mr. Khamenei, a powerful politician but a lightweight in theological terms, is not recognized as Marjaa al-Taqlid in Iran itself. The overwhelming majority of Lebanese Shiites regard Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, in Iraq, or Ayatollah Muhammad-Hussein Fadhlallah, in Beirut, as their "Source of Emulation."
Amir Taheri's Conclusion
Far from representing the Lebanese national consensus, Hezbollah is a sectarian group backed by a militia that is trained, armed and controlled by Iran. In the words of Hossein Shariatmadari, editor of the Iranian daily Kayhan, "Hezbollah is 'Iran in Lebanon.'" In the 2004 municipal elections, Hezbollah won some 40% of the votes in the Shiite areas, the rest going to its rival Amal (Hope) movement and independent candidates. In last year's general election, Hezbollah won only 12 of the 27 seats allocated to Shiites in the 128-seat National Assembly -- despite making alliances with Christian and Druze parties and spending vast sums of Iranian money to buy votes.

Having lost more than 500 of its fighters, and with almost all of its medium-range missiles destroyed, Hezbollah may find it hard to sustain its claim of victory. "Hezbollah won the propaganda war because many in the West wanted it to win as a means of settling score with the United States," says Egyptian columnist Ali al-Ibrahim. "But the Arabs have become wise enough to know TV victory from real victory."


David McGregor said...


I see that your stance is much stronger than Israeli supporters world wide. I mean if the west thinks the HA won, Ideally should be to the advantage of Leb. Why aren't you Happy, A win for the resistance is a win for the country.

Something tells me that you are weary of a power shift :-)

JoseyWales said...

Sayyed Ali al Amin? Never heard of him, someone give us some background please.

Being away right now, common sense tells me that at some point, critical Shia voices will rise.

However, for now, Mona Fayad seems alone.

Where are the big families, the other clerics etc.. These voices are not being heard at all (I hope Taheri is right).

On this suject, if true that all these Shia individuals are critical (including inside HA), then that is what Siniora should have done: coaxed these voices to come out and work with him a long time ago.

PS Comment moderation here too now? Come on guys.

Unfrozen Caveman Linguist said...

We can see that if there is a dearth of Lebanese who are willing to celebrate their bombed-out houses and businesses, many with western names are prepared to take up that mantle for them. How generous.

Bad Vilbel said...

A very good read indeed.

I've been voicing a very similar opinion to that of Mr. Taheri, and it is good to see this notion getting more exposure.

I don't know if I buy his contention that the west sees a Hezbollah win because of its desire to "stick it" to the US. I am more inclined to believe that the lack of depth in most analyses in the MSM, and the lack of understanding of internal Lebanese dynamics has a lot more to do with this perception that Hezbollah won.

I personally believe the main goal set forth by Israel for their campaign was to wake up the Lebanese government and give it an opportunity to neutralize Hezbollah and the Iranian proxy threat for Israel. And I think in that regard, that goal is well on its way to being met.

AbdulKarim said...


If only half of what Tahiri said about shias breaking off hizbullah is true then this is indeed good news. However, I doubt that. All those families mentioned, how much do they represent of the Shia's ? Moreover, how will Hizbullah's offering financial aid to reconstruct affected areas affect their popularity ? I think many people will revote them because of that. On the other hand, it might also be an indication that Hizbullah sensed discontetnt among the shia southerners.

If there is a good time for shias to show discontent, now is the time. There could be no better time. There could be no better chance. Unfortunately, nothing of that sort seems to be happening.

Dimitry said...

Israel clearly lost because it failed to achieve any of its aims (unless Lebanon really decides to disarm HA now, and even then it would be doubtful). Succesfully preventing the enemy from making gains can be concidered quite reasonably as victory. So I can't really agree with the claim that "HA's victory" is a pure media spin.

Lazarus said...

in order for people to have an influence on the relevant communities, those dissenters need to have a firm voice within the community. mona fayed is marginal.

Jonah said...

If people on the Arab street are indeed viewing this as a loss for Hezbollah, then how has the mainstream media come-up with the notion of overwhelming new support for HA?

Lirun said...


i believe you and raja are both correct..

the war was fought through the media.. the death and casualties were significant but frankly the leaders of our government and the HA treated the dead as props for media messages..

HA did win in the media and hence they also won a lot of the war.. but ultimately history also needs to judge the outcome and we are watching it unfold as we blog..

these coming months will be both fascinating and vastly influential for our lives in the region in the coming years..


R said...


Ali el amine is the shiite mufti of Soor (Tyre). He is a sayyed (i.e supposedly descended from mohammad), which means that he carries theological weight. How popular he is, I am not sure.

Chas said...

In the end it is not really important wether or not Hezbollah "won" the war. What is important now is who wins the peace.
Will Lebanon regain and strengthen its democracy?
Will Israel turn away from the militaristic path?
Will Asad go back to his palace and shut the f... up?

The Easter rising in Ireland in 1916 was a military disaster, but paved the way for Irish independance. It was the reaction to the war and the subsequent political developments that really decided the outcome.



Bad Vilbel said...


Very true!

why-discuss said...

Hezbollah won the war because Israel's goal was to get back their soldiers , which they did not, and the destroy completely Hezbollah, which they did not..
Watch for Amir Taheri
"Mr. Taheri's public speaking engagements are arranged by Benador Associates, a public relations firm with a predominantly neoconservative clientele."
See also all the controverse about his undocumented references..

So give me a break!

Ariya said...

Only in the eyes of the West? Heh...

R said...


The fact that the Israelis did not achieve their objectives, does not mean that HA won.
The fact that the Lebanese army is headed south is not a victory for HA, neither is the presence of 15000 UNIFIL troops.
HA survived which is very different from winning.
Besides, who cares if HA won, or Israel won, when clearly lebanon has been wrecked.

Gosudarynya said...

This was a rush copy. I never checked out the proofed version, but anyone else can at or same subject at one of the Arabic papers.

Majority of Lebanese believe Hizbullah won war
Saturday, August 26, 2006

The Beirut Center for Research and Information conducted a survey between August 18-20 on Hizbullah's performance in the recent war with Israel to gauge public opinion regarding the resistance's role, both independently and in relation to the Lebanese Army after its deployment in the South. Questions also focused on the role of an expanded UNIFIL and the nature of relations with Israel. The survey queried 800 Lebanese citizens from the country's four major confessions.

According to Abdo Saad, president of the Beirut Center for Research and Information, the survey results indicated the following:

The first question showed that the taste for victory among the majority of Lebanese confessions was stronger than horror of death and destruction caused by the Israeli war machine.

We believe this feeling is due to the military performance of the resistance on the battlefield, to the support and interaction of the Arab and Islamic streets with the resistance during its confrontation with the Israeli aggression, and to an acknowledgment by Israeli political forces and the media that the Israeli Army's performance was poor on the battlefield.

This spirit of victory affected the question regarding the importance of support for the resistance to the Lebanese Army. The question recorded a high percentage of support that almost reached 78 percent. The results are mainly due to the high performance and courage of the resistance and recognition of this by the occupying forces, and the political stand of the resistance leadership which insisted on the unity of the governmental and popular stand.

This unity showed in Hizbullah's approval of the government's seven-point plan and decision to deploy the Lebanese Army in all border areas in Southern Lebanon.

The third question recorded the highest percentage (85 percent) of agreement between the Lebanese over the fact that Israel's war against Lebanon was the result of a plan regardless of Hizbullah's capture of the two Israeli soldiers.

As to question four, it seems that the majority of the Lebanese do not trust the role international forces could play on Lebanese territories as a deterrence force against a possible further Israeli aggression against Lebanon. We believe this is due to Lebanon's experience in 1978 with repeated Israeli attacks in light of the international forces' neglect to assume their military or political tasks by stirring the Security Council.

The answers to question five showed that the overwhelming majority of Lebanese from all confessions agreed it was impossible to establish peace with Israel. The reasons here are obvious; a large portion of the Sunni and Shiite Muslims had already expressed full support for the Hamas Movement's refusal to recognize Israel because of its aggressive nature (cf. The Beirut Center for Research and Information survey published in the pan-Arab Al-Hayat newspaper April 3, 2006).

It is noticeable that most of those who answered "yes" to questions one and two believe peace with Israel is impossible.

It is worth noting the discrepancies between men and women in replies since the survey showed that women were less positive than men about the resistance. Seventy eight percent of men believed the resistance won, whereas 66 percent of women did not.

While 81 percent of the men stressed the importance of the resistance's support to the Lebanese Army, 76 percent of the women did not. Furthermore, 54 percent of women answered "no" to the question regarding the international forces' capacity to deter any Israeli aggression, whereas 73 percent of men said "yes."

The survey also showed that about 30 percent of women said it was possible to have peace with Israel, whereas only 20 percent of men did.

We finally highlight that the survey showed that the age range of younger men was more enthusiastic and sensitive to the victory of the resistance compared to the age range of the older men.

Emil , Jerusalem said...

Hi, everybody

a prefer to bring a quote in full :

Mr. Nasrallah was also criticized for his acknowledgement of Ali Khamenei as Marjaa al-Taqlid (Source of Emulation), the highest theological authority in Shiism. Highlighting his bay'aah (allegiance), Mr. Nasrallah kisses the man's hand each time they meet. Many Lebanese Shiites resent this because Mr. Khamenei, a powerful politician but a lightweight in theological terms, is not recognized as Marjaa al-Taqlid in Iran itself. The overwhelming majority of Lebanese Shiites regard Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, in Iraq, or Ayatollah Muhammad-Hussein Fadhlallah, in Beirut, as their "Source of Emulation."

end of quote

This is another proof that the infamous Nasralla is an Iranian agent , he is fighting for Iranian interests only and doesn't give a s**t on Lebanon !

And I sadly agree with assumption , that Israel lost . Our govt. will fall soon and I hope the new one will make the right decisions.

lebclaro said...

I can recommend an article by Edward N. Luttwak who is a military expert, consultant and Senior Fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, Washington DC. The article is entitles: ''Hezbollah has no won''. The author argues that with time the combat of Hezbollah will be considered an a non-victory, comparing similarities with the 1973 war.

I can´t find the english version but here is a link to the German translation

why-discuss said...


Hezbollah won and will win even more in the next few months:
1) Their strategy has always been to force the lebanese government to give attention to the south and establish a defense stragey. This is key to the agreement Hezbollah made with Michel Aoun. We now see the lebanese government is sending the army to protect the south villages beefed up with a robust Unifil. This is an achievement that would never had happen, as the lebanese goverment was giving more attention and energy to remove Lahood and to invectivate Syria than to care about the protection of the south of Lebanon, totally neglected for years.. long before the arrival of Hezbollah.
2) the second point is the release of the lebanese prisoners. In hiding, far from the media, for fear of looking ridiculous, the Israelis are negotiating the exchange of prisonners. We will soon see a small paragraph in the third page of the US newspaper that an exchange was done
3) the Shebaa farms issue is now officially part of the resolution and in 30 days Kofi Annan must give the UN position. It is a difficult issue because israel want to keep a contention issue between Lebanon and Syria
and wants to keep the water that is available there. We will see if the lebanese governement will follow up this, as if it does not it may become a source of armed conflict.

In summary, Hezbollah is the winner because they have forced the lebanese governement to face its responsibilities with ALL citizens of Lebanon and they have forced the international community to admit that Israel is now cornered and must be pressured to make concessions.
The support of Iran, now the stronger power in the region, is not to be taken lighty. Lebanon can benefit a lot from Iran, gaz, oil, culture etc.. even if you are christian and prefer french or US culture.
Time will tell..
Of course it was a heavy price to pay for Lebanon, but unfortunaltly in today's politics, every one procastinate until a disaster happens..

chuck said...


by u'r own logic i can claim that Israel is the victorious side in this conflict.

if Israel hadn't invaded lebanon then the international comunity wouldn't have given it's atention to lebanon, and wouldn't be FORCED (by Israel) to send a UNIFIL armed force into south lebanon, so that hisballa won't be allowed to break the border between lebanon and Israel.

hisballa had lost it's hold over southern lebanon, it is being criticised now by it's own people, which i think is the greatest achievment of lebanon untill now, making some criticism and not accepting hisballa as something beyond law and government.

hisballa has lost it's ability to attack Israel for the next few years, without getting an international criticism and lebanese criticism.

Israel has managed to show the world the real conection between hisballa, iran and syria.

i agree with u about the lebanese prisoners, i do believe that they will be released in a negotiation, but i don't believe it will be between hisballa and Israel, but between Israel and lebanon.

the sahbaa farms issue is somthing to be negotiated upon between Israel and syria. it will be given to syria only in peace talks and peace settelment between the 2 countries. which i hope will happened some day soon.

and by the way,

debate said...

Hassoun is a seasoned liar, he promised on the round table not to cause trouble in the summer but a few days later he took us to war. This guy has lost all credibility among the lebanese public. Now when it comes to his supporters in the shiaa community people are slowly but surely awaking to the huge destruction and the fact a militia can never guanrantee peace and security.
Read this article about Sayyed Ali Al Amine, the mufti of Sour and Jabal 3Amil and listen to what he had to say about the whole issue:
مفتي صور وجبل عامل يرفض الوكالة الحصرية

لـ "أمل" و"حزب الله" على الشيعة

العلامة علي الأمين : كيف يقال للجنوبيين الخارجين

من قراهم رافعين الرايات البيضاء بأننا انتصرنا?!

بيروت - "السياسة":
أكد مفتي صور وجبل عامل العلامة علي الأمين رفضه لمقولة الانتصار في الحرب الأخيرة بعد كل الدمار الكبير الذي حصل في الضاحية الجنوبية والجنوب إذ كيف يمكن أن يقال للجنوبيين الخارجين من قراهم المدمرة رافعين الرايات البيضاء اننا انتصرنا?, وقال في حديث مع فضائية ال¯"L.B.C." أمس أن هناك من بدأ بتوجيه الأسئلة إلينا, بعدما انتهت الحرب, وهناك من يقول أنه حصدنا من سياستكم دماراً وتهجيراً وترويعاً وناراً, وهناك تساؤلات كبيرة حول ما جرى وسأل من الذي يتحدث عن انتصارات في الحرب الأخيرة بعدما خرجنا نرفع الرايات البيضاء التي تكسر القلب, وقال أن كثيراً من الأمور ستتغير والناس بدأت تتكلم, ولذلك إن سرورنا بعودة الجيش اللبناني وقوات الطوارئ الدولية سوف يطمئننا أكثر. ورفض الأمين ما يسمى بوكالة حصرية ل¯"أمل" و"حزب الله" على الشيعة لأنها من نتائج الماضي, لافتاً إلى أن الأمور ستتغير الآن كثيراً, فالمساءلات والمحاسبات سوف تكثر وسوف تحدث هناك تغييرات كثيرة والناس تسأل أين الأمانة التي استحفظتموها ووصلتم باسمها إلى المواقع المتقدمة, وقال: للأسف فإن سلة الشيعة كلها وضعت في سلة من سلال التطرف وسلة الحرب, مع أن الشيعة ليسوا مع هذه الحرب, وخط الاعتدال عند الشيعة هو الأكثر مساحة, وهو الأكبر, لكنني أعتقد أن بعض قيادات حركة "أمل" تخلى عن دوره في هذا الإعتدال وتظهيره من أجل مناصب ومواقع متقدمة وربطونا مع الإيرانيين بعيداً.
وقال الأمين أن الذي يتولى الثقافة الدينية عند الشيعة هو "حزب الله" وليس حركة "أمل" التي لم يعد لها أي دور, وقد أصبحت الثقافة الدينية هي ثقافة الفريق الواحد وليس ثقافة الفريقين, وقد عملوا على إلغاء خط الاعتدال وإخفائه, وأصبح المظهر الشيعي واحداً, مع أن الشيعة ليسوا هكذا.
واعتبر الأمين أن المجلس الإسلامي الشيعي الأعلى مقيد بقرارات "حزب الله" و"أمل", وسأل أيعقل أن تكون الطائفة الشيعية التي كانت في طليعة الطوائف التي تتقاتل من أجل الدولة اللبنانية الواحدة تصبح الآن تدعى إلى الدولة اللبنانية ولا تجيب, كيف يمكن تقبل هذا المنطق? مشدداً على أن الجيش اللبناني عندما ينتشر فهذا يعني أن السلطة هي للدولة اللبنانية, أي أن السلاح هو للدولة اللبنانية, وأن الدفاع هو للدولة اللبنانية, فلا يمكن أن تقول نحن نريد دولة ولكن نريد أن نحدد لها سياستها الدفاعية والخارجية والداخلية, فأي منطق شراكة هذا? هذا ليس منطق شراكة.
وأكد العلامة الأمين أن الاعتدال الشيعي موجود لكنه مغيب, فأفكاره وقيمه ومبادئه موجودة في نفوس الناس, مشدداً على أن هناك توقاً من جانب المواطنين لتكون الدولة مسؤولة عنهم, وأخذ على بعض المسؤولين في "حزب الله" الذين يقولون أننا ندافع عن بلدنا, سائلاً إياهم هل أن لبنان بلدكم لوحدكم, وقال: لا يمكن أن تفرض علي خطة لتدافع فيها عن بلدي, فهذه البلد ليست لك, فهي لك ولغيرك, وتعال واتفق مع غيرك كيف تدافع عنها, لا أن تختار طريقاً وتقول لي اتبعني, ولذلك أعتقد أن الاعتدال لا يزال موجوداً عند شريحة واسعة من الطائفة الشيعية في لبنان, وأنا أقول إذا أجرينا استفتاء في الجنوب اللبناني على مشروع الدولة اللبنانية وعلى أي مشروع يناقضها, فإن الجواب سيكون مائة بالمائة لمشروع الدولة اللبنانية وكلنا للوطن كما هي الحال في كل المناطق اللبنانية.
وأكد الأمين أن قدر الطائفة الشيعية وخلاصها هو في اندماجها في مشروع الدولة اللبنانية الذي هو خيارها الوحيد. وأشار إلى أن "حزب الله" يمكن أن يسير في هذا الأمر وهو مع مشروع الدولة الذي ينقذ الجميع, فالتجارب علمتنا أنه لن تحمينا طوائفنا ولا أحزابنا ولا مذاهبنا وإنما تحمينا دولة المؤسسات الواحدة والقوية, وأشار إلى أن "حزب الله" علاقاته المميزة والفريدة مع إيران وهذا لا يعني أن الشيعة هم كذلك, لأن ارتباطنا هو بأوطاننا, وإن كانت لنا علاقات مع إيران أو العراق, فهذه العلاقات هي دينية وثقافية قديمة, وقال نار القريب ولا جنة البعيد, وأضاف: نحن كشيعة جزء لا يتجزأ من هذا الشعب اللبناني, ولا يجوز بأي حال من الأحوال أن تكون روابط الأديان على حساب الأوطان, وشدد على أنه يجب على "حزب الله" وغيره أن يكونوا في إطار مشروع الدولة اللبنانية الواحدة التي تحفظ الجميع, الدولة الوطنية المدنية غير الدينية وغير الحزبية, ولفت إلى أن دولة اتفاق الطائف هي التي تمثلنا كشيعة, وعلينا أن نسير في هذا الإتفاق الذي أجمع عليه اللبنانيون, وحتى الاتفاقات الدولية فإننا جزء منها. وأعلن رفضه أي امتيازات لطائفة من الطوائف اللبنانية.
وأكد العلامة الأمين أنه سنصل في نهاية المطاف إلى أن السلام ليس مصدر قوة أو هدفاً, وإنما هو وسيلة من الوسائل, وإذا كان لحماية البلد, فإن وجود الجيش اللبناني في الجنوب إلى جانب قوات الطوارئ يمكن أن يحمي المواطنين, وأعتقد أن "حزب الله" سيوافق في النهاية على أن السلام ليس مصدراً وحيداً للقوة. وشدد الأمين على أننا كشيعة نخشى على مستقبلنا عندما نكون خارج مشروع الدولة الذي يجب أن ينتظم الجميع تحت لوائه, مؤكداً أن الأمن الطائفي أو الأمن الحزبي أمر مرفوض وهو يؤدي إلى التفتيت وإلى التقسيم, وأقول أن الأمن الذاتي خطر وهو مرفوض من الجميع.

M. Simon said...

I review Michael Young:

A few more Hizballah victories like this one and Hizballah will be out of business. A few more Israeli defeats like the one they suffered in Lebanon and they will control all of Lebanon. Some victory. Some defeat.

The Bitter Taste of Victory

As reality starts to intrude into the Middle East Amir Taheri in Opinion Journal (Hat Tip: Ted Belman of Israpundit) notes that Israel and the west may have lost the propaganda war but Hizbollah has lost the Arabs. Lebanese Shiit Arabs.

Hizbollah Beats Israel Loses Arabs

M. Simon said...

Wait a minute. Correct me if I'm wrong. The defeated Israel is holding pieces of Lebanon and this is a model for driving the Israelis out of the Golan? Out of Palestine?

Um, OK.

The only way for Hizballah to get Israel to even agree to leave Lebanon was to stop fighting and shooting rockets. Even then Israel is taking its own sweet time.


Oh, I get it. You are very good friends with that blonde Lebanese feller. Say hello to him for me. He used to be a friend of mine.

Here is where Israel scored its real victory:

Cash Flow Jihad Meets Aftermath

Military power requires economic power. Iran has a lot of Lebanese to feed and shelter. Iran lost a lot of buildings and a lot of rockets. It takes money to replace that:

Iran to Enter Cash Flow Jihad Zone

America intends to cut off Iran's cash. They have already cut the Palestinian cash.

Cas Flow Jihad Strikes Hamas

Lirun said...

debate - are you able to source a translation of the article?


why-discuss said...


Remember that Isralis were violating the lebanese territory on a daily basis. Hezbollah protected the south because the Lebanese state was not and the lebanese army was made useless by the series of goverments lakey of syria and the US that succeeded in lebanon, including Rafic Hariri's.
Now that the lebanese army has been beefed up, Israel will no longer violate lebanese territory with impunity. Nasrallah said it today: If the lebanese army protects the south, we don't need to do it.
So I think the resistance fighters of Hezbollah have done their job and the Hezbollah politicians will now move into the political arena to help expelling the parasites that have sucked lebanon's blood for years and think they still can with the help of the US and Israel Their time is counted...

chuck said...

why discuss,

tell me something, if the purpose of hisballa was to "deffend" the south border of lebanon from the invasions of Israel, instead of the lebanese army, then how come sudenly the lebanese army is capable of deploying along the border and couldn't have done that untill now ?

why did it had to take a whole war in order for the lebanese army to take over hisballa positions ? r u telling me that sudenly this war made the lebanese army stronger then it was before ? like say, 6 years ago ?

and if this is what u call "protection" of hisballa then i should probobly rearange my dictionary.

the lebanese army is being deployed now along the border only because Israel demanded it from lebanon, it's not because of the kindness of hisballa.
hisballa would have loved to stay on the border and continue it's attacks on Israel. but now there is both the lebanese army and the UN force that will arrive. and guess what, the orders and instructions of the international force r not to engage Israeli army if trying to invade lebanon, but engage hisballa fighters if they will try to cross into the safe zone between lebanon and Israel in order to attack Israeli soldiers.

the lebanese army didn't deploy it's forces untill now because the poor lebanese government was afraid to cause a colision between the army and hisballa, thus maybe even creat a civil war. Israel managed to create the oportunity for the lebanese along with the International support. hsiballa has become irelevant, and nasralla is trying verry hard now to show it is still relevant.
he is trying to push away the criticism of the lebanese people by claiming it's victory.

if there is something nasralla is good at, it's public relations.
he is trying verry hard now to show that hisballa is victorious, because otherwise the lebanese people will acknoledge the fact that he had led them into a war they didn't need, and caused them a lot of suffering only to sattisfy the iranian and syrian need to unstabalise the area.

just make u'r own ballance. who do u think lost more, Israel or hisballa ?

-Israel lost 2 soldiers that will be brought back (hopfully) in negotiations.

-Israel won't be able to invade into lebanon unless hisballa will make another stupid act of war.

-lost it's control along the border with Israel, and it's main headcourters in the dahya.

-lost many soldiers and bunkers with weaponary and amunition that it gathered and deployed on the border with Israel.

-lost it's support and it's relevance in the eyes of the world and more importantly, in the eyes of the lebanese people.

but hey, listen, if u want to be delusional and believe that hisballa will come out as a winner, then be my guest.

Dimitry said...


I'm no expert on Lebanese internal politics, but it is my understanding that prior to the war, HA activly opposed the LAF being deployed on the border with Israel. One of Israel's demands since its retreat in 2000 and initial demands this war was that LAF would be the one to guard the border with Israel - the violation of Lebanon's "sovreignity" were because there was a hostile militia across the border.

So no, I fail to see how LAF deployement is HA victory.

why-discuss said...


The borders in the south were 'protected' by a weak UNIFIL casques bleus. Now the border will be protected by 15,000 heavily equipped foreign soldiers helping the meagre lebanese army who has never been able to protect anything.
It was not because of the fear of clashes between Hezbollah and the lebanese army that it was not present in the south, it is more because it was weak and unequipped result of the lebanese governements who had other priorities than to modernize or re inforce the army.

Whether this was forecasted by Nasrallah or not, the result is that the south will be now really protected by a foreign force and Israel will be penalized when it will violate the borders.

I consider that as a victory for the people of the south who have suffered too much.
Hezbollah is a smart organization, so I have no doubt they will transform themselves into a powerful political and social movement that will influence positively and greatly the political atmosphere of the Lebanon after the 12 july.

chuck said...


i agree with u.

and i hope these actions will resault a leb-Isr peace treaty.

Beldozer said...

i heard that ali al-amine whom annahr made interviw with him was a teacher of nasrallah i found his website