Wednesday, August 02, 2006

In Walid Jumblatt's Words

The Financial Times ran a story today about Lebanon based on an interview they conducted with Walid Jumblatt, one of the more prominent leaders of Lebanon's Cedar Revolution. I'd like to thank Lebanonwire for bringing the story to my attention.

Here is a selection of what I thought to be the most important sections of a very bleak outlook for Lebanon's future:
...the conflict between Israel and Hizbollah guerrillas had dealt a fatal blow to Lebanese hopes of a strong independent state, free of Iranian and Syrian influence.

[Walid Jumblatt] accused [Hizballah] of working to an Iranian and Syrian timetable when it kidnapped two Israeli soldiers on July 12, triggering a devastating Israeli retaliation.

But he said that like many Lebanese he had to support the Shia movement in its resistance against “brutal Israeli aggression”....

“After the 12 July, Lebanon is now unfortunately being entrenched solidly into the Syrian-Iranian axis,” he said. “The hopes of a stable, prosperous Lebanon where we could attract investments is over for now. It is a fatal blow for confidence.”

...

Last year [Jumblatt] emerged as one of the Syrian regime’s fiercest opponents in an alliance of groups that came together following the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri and led a coalition government following the elections.

At that time, [he] held out hope that a new wave of democratic activism was sweeping the Arab world.

But on Tuesday he offered a bleak and outspoken assessment of the prospects for Lebanon.

He said among Syrian-backed politicians there was already talk of forming an emergency government to replace Prime Minister Fouad Siniora’s coalition. He said he feared that an “organised mob” might be used to force the government’s resignation.

There was also little prospect that Hizbollah, having emerged as a champion in the Arab and Muslim world, would be willing now to incorporate its armed wing under the Lebanese state apparatus....

...

“We will be just a weak state next to a very strong militia. Our government will be like the government of Abu Mazen (Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas) next to Hamas or maybe worse like the government of [Nouri al] Maliki in Iraq.”

“All American policy in the Middle East is at stake,” he continued, “because their failure in Palestine, their failure in Iraq and now this failure in Lebanon will lead to a new Arab world where the so called radical Arabs will profit.

“This is the new Middle East. Not the new Middle East of Ms [US secretary of state Condoleezza] Rice. Darkness everywhere.”


103 comments:

Lirun said...

NO NO NO NO NO!

please dont give up!

lirun
tel-aviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
i believe in you guys!

3li- said...

Walid J.-changes views and allegiences more than Madonna in a concert...

Unfortunately for this supposed Lebanese (and many others who espouse this this view), his wish for Israel to wipe out HA did not materialize.

It is the rubbish and corruption that this man and his ilk represent that has always kept Lebanon weak, divided and corrupt. It was only a couple of years ago that he called out Syria's critics in Lebanon as "traitors."

There IS a new Mideast-One where the people's of the region know that boogey man, Israel, is nothing but that, and that the US has as much regard for them as it did to its Native Americans.

The reprucussions of what has transpired the last couple of weeks will echo for years to come. This is not a time for "darkness," except for those who alligned themselves with the enemies of their nations and people.

It is the ignorance and shortsightedness of this camp that has kept the peoples of the Mideast enslaved to the dictates of foreigners and colonizers alike. Why be proud of a resistance that has restored the honor of the region after years of defeat? Their hatred and racism is as thick as summer fog in Lebanon's South hills...

As Lebanese, we need to extricate from our midst such defeatist and self-serving lakceys. Our people deserve better than that. If Walid J. still speaks for many in Lebanon after this historic shuffle of military and political equations by the couragious sacrifices of the Lebanese resistance and the Lebanese people, then they deserve nothing more then their rightful place of shame and servitude.

They are free to speak their mind and voice their opinions. Let us make sure that they do not become the voice of our people, nor the dreams of our children as they look into the future.

Loli said...

I'm not giving up. The only constant in life is change. If the situation seems hopeless now, it doesn't mean things won't change in the future. Regimes around us may change, and more moderate people may take the reigns. History has proven it over and over again.

still realizing said...

I think Jumblatt is wrong. If the military side of Hezbollah is tamed and cannot reach Israel, and the fighting ends then Lebanon can come back very strong. There will be contributions from the West because of the damage to Lebanon. A working central Lebanese government is possible.

A functioning international force on the border is just one path to recovery.

Loli said...

Sacrifices?? HA is sacrificing the lives of people who did not ask for this war. HA dragged all of us into a nightmare and succeeded in making some gullible followers that it is doing the right thing. HA pledges allegiance to a country we have nothing to do with: Iran. Your logic is correct, but unfortunately your premises are wrong. As a Lebanese, I believe in peace, and refuse to wage war in the name of God or whatever ideology you may have.

barroon said...

His word sound logic , unfortunatly

yuval from tlv said...

sad but true.

during the 90's people were talking about a new middle east of peace, nowadays the middle east is in constant fight.
iraq, israel, palastinian authority, lebanon...
and i guess sonner or later, iran too.

the answer of how you prevent it, isn't by fighting others.
but by judging your self and your actions.

fundemantalistics extremers feels that if they won't take action they might view their own countries aknowledge israel existence, or even "worse" becoming democratic.

therefor they fight, and brain wash people's mids that they're defending them.

if you want to prosper, you don't fight to death with others..
you make peace with them.

by suporting HB, Hamas, Al Qaida, etc.. you don't protect your arab world.
you make it look like a terrorists nations, who seeks war and wishes to go back to the evil ages.

if you truely seek for prosper and peace you shut extremers and their idea's and make peace.
like eghypt, jordan & israel.

the serious question lyes ahead - how long is it going to take? and how is it going to be performed?

till them who knows how many deaths ans distruction will wash the entire regioun.

i think the area cannot perform it by it self, other UN armed forces need to come to the area and protect the borders of each side, meanwhile nations should make sure the propoganda and lies of the extremers will be gone, and a new genoration of youth will make the middle east in another 50 years the new EU of the middle world.

yuval from tlv said...

if you don't believe it think about Germany during world wars.

they were viewed as a fanatic war seeking nation caused the two world wars.

now people see that because they've humiliated Germany after WW1, they seeked revange.

after WW2 they knew better...
they taught they're people for peace justice tolurance, and forgiveness..
this way they formed the EU..

don't believe in war, revange, or self honor..
don't believe in god's fights..

believe in making peace, forgive others, and teach your youth to seek for justice & well being.

Loli said...

UN peacekeepers, if successful, are but a temp solution. We need to teach our children that only peace is a viable solution. Muslim fundamentalists and Iran regime sympathisers need to understand that no matter how hard they fight Israel, they won't wipe it out. Israel needs to understand the same about fundamentalists. No one can exterminate a people. Again, history has proven it more than once. If each one of us accepted this fact and put efforts towards a peaceful co-existence, the world would be fine. It is not utopia, rather pragmatism.

3li- said...

What would Israel have done if:

A part of its territory was still occupied by Lebanon..

Lebanon still held some of its citiziens hostage...

Lebanon had occupied it for 18 years and when they left, abandoned hundreds of thousands of land mines without a map which, besides killing scores of people have made it prohibitve to travel or use the land wher they're buried...

Lebanon violates it space and air space everyday...

Lebanon uses spy networks to kill Israeli officals by planting car bombs (the Mossad-financed Mahmoud Rafeh network exposed in May after two Palestinians were car-bombed)

the list is long. And this does not include Israeli actions against the Palestinians or the fact that we still have 1/2 million Palestinians living in our midst who cannot be integrated in a country as small and confessionally divided as Lebanon (maybe the Lebanese commentators who keep wishing to disassociate themselves from the wider Israli-Palestinian peoblem can provide some solutions.

My point is that Lebanese grievances agaisnt Israel are much longer that anything the Jewish state can muster or use as a pretext to launch its savagery against Lebanon..

Israeli citizens have to put themselves oin Lebanon's shoes for once. Maybe they can then understand why the Lebanese feel the way they feel.

Loli said...

Alghadabulsaati#

I understand your rage but take a moment to think. Is this productive at all? We can dwell forever on our suffering inflicted by Israel or other, but will this solve anything at all? Is this the way you envision our future? Fighting forever? What will the outcome be? Can we decide to stop the madness? No war was ever a real success. War brings death and grief. Let's think for a moment and try to follow Egypt and Jordan's example. Pls keep in mind some political regimes use any excuse to gain more power, including people's own suffering. Let's not follow anyone who seeks revenge and war.

JoseyWales said...

Not much to disagree with except that this is a Lebanese failure, not a Bush/America/Condi whatever failure. The Lebanese live and have to live there not Bush (yeah I know what Walid meant)

Very sad and sobering. I am very pessimistic.

3li- said...

Loli-Don't be naive.

If you still believe that HA is doing Iran's bidding at the expense of their own families, friends, neighbors, towns, cities, future...then you have bought Israel's and the US's arguments wholesale.

There are real political grievances Lebanon has against Israel (see my post above). If you believe that HA acts within the guidelines of an apocalyptic vision, then you know nothing about these people, and they are you next-door neighbors (who can blame the Jews then?)

HA, as every Arab recognizes, is that Israel is a colonial enterprise that happened at the expense of the Palestinian people.

I sympathize with the Jews that they needed a homeland after many centuries of persecution in Europe (not the Mideast), but it did not have to happen in Palestine. They chose Palestine, and the hapless Palestinians have been paying the price of this Zionist dream with their lives ever since. We, the neighbors of these Palestinians, have also paid a dear price for their uprooting and still do so today.

Khatami, Iran’s former president gave a speech a few years ago, and in it re-iterated that we stand with the Palestinians because of the injustice perpetrated against them, but that if the Palestinians choose to make peace with Israel, whatever the model of that peace, then we have no choice but to accept it. Aside from Ahmadinajad’s rhetoric, that is reality.

So stop believing that HA is seeking some Quranic pie in the sky. If they did, why would they not start with making Lebanon an Islamic Republic to start with all this power they have? Why are they in the government?

I do believe the Lebanese have some issues to resolve between themselves, including what to do with HA’s military wing and conduct, especially after the latest flare-up. But that is for the Lebanese to discuss. HA’s limited operation to win back the freedom of its Lebanese citizens does not give Israel the right or the rational to bomb Lebanon wholesale. Your arguments, though unintended, keep providing the pretext to your Israeli audience that their action against Lebanon is justified. Let’s not play into their hands.

Itai said...

Walid Jumblatt is a smart and brave man. Sinieora is a puppet, he has no balls to make a stand and tell his people the truth.
I can't understand how the Lebanese people buy this weak idiot's policy which will keep Lebanon miserable.

Itai said...

Nasralah really has 3 options:
1. Yield to Israel's just demands and become HZA party political leader without an armed militia.
2. Hide like a mouse for the rest of his life, releasing a video tape now and then. The moment he'll surface an Apache gonna take him out.
3. Run to Syria or Iran where he belongs.
Anyone who don't understand this is unrealistic and I challenge him to give an alternate realistic option. His happy days are over :-)

Lirun said...

its so easy to be pessimistic.. what an easy choice.. requires little imagination/foresight/vision/understanding.. it is such a safe bet.. if you are proven right then you were right and if you were wrong then who cares because everyone shall enjoy the fruit.. what a great risk free way to justify doing nothing positive.. nothing to gain = nothing lose..

well you're wrong.. everything to gain and everything to lose..

this status quo is not sustainable because it breeds political bacteria and rot.. the longer we stay in this twisted reality the more we forget the great things that our civilisations really represent.. and the more we deny ourselves the opportunity to fully materialise the contribution that we are destined to deliver to the family of nations of this world..

and while we stall the more accommodating countries of this planet progress and accumulate and strengthen and we get left further and further behind.. and in our bleak existence where of "have-not"ship the stress of basic needs is magnified and the stress is comparatively larger.. wnd so we bicker about stupid stupid things as we float out of perspective and into a cycle of stupidity..

in this sense not having peace is like having a huge mortgage on your house with a very very punitive interest rate.. you cant stop just stop repayments - because interest will kill you..

our hostilities are like a negative interest force.. they snowball.. we owe it to ourselves to cut them off now..

i believe withmy entire heart that lebanon will be restored and far exceed its recent achievements..

dont underestimate yourselves.. watching your country from the side.. was so inspiring to me..

i look forward to watching you flourish again.. this time for good..

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
we are just a bunch of ME'ers

3li- said...

Itai-

What does your symbol mean?

Loli said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3

Let's assume I am being naive, let's assume you are right about the legitimate resistance of HA. How would you then explain Iran's significant support of HA? Mere friendship and compassion? Or a will to gain more strategic power in the region? How would you explain HA's power of late in Lebanon? To fight the Israeli occupant? How would you explain the blind allegiance of militants to Nasralla? Nasralla has a lot of charisma (not for me), and this is exactly how you ascend as a leader and how you feed your followers the ideas you want to spread. Demagoguery, charisma, strategic power, fanatic religious beliefs, you name it. HA (and Israel) miscalculated their actions. HA dragged Lebanon into something much bigger than they ever wanted. I am not a sympathizer of violence, therefore I am not a sympathizer of Israel, Iran or HA. I believe in peace and will sympathise with anyone who seeks peace too. What are you hoping to achieve with your so-called resistance, except for more grief, destruction, impoverishment and death. Give it a thought.
Also, you talk about colonialism. What an outdated concept! Then you should also mention the futuhaat 3arabiyat in Europe and elsewhere, where much violence was inflicted. Should we also fight the Arabs for their past deeds? This is not how you negotiate a better life.

Loli said...

Lirun,
Nice metaphors, and keep up your positive outlook.

Dimitry said...

HA’s limited operation to win back the freedom of its Lebanese citizens does not give Israel the right or the rational to bomb Lebanon wholesale.

This is where you're mistaken. It gave Israel every right to do so. Being attacked is the best casus belli out there.

Lebanon is either thinking its grievances can be solved only in war and are serious enough to justify one, or not. And if the former, than thet should be ready and willing to deal with the war's consequences. They can unilateraly choose to go to war - they cannot decide it's intesety by themselves.



The symbol is the IAF symbol, btw.

Loli said...

dimitry,
The problem is, HA single-handedly decided to carry out this stupid plan of theirs. And now it's completely out of control. The vast majority of Lebanese people do not want war. They've had ENOUGH of it.

Lebnese Liona said...

TO ALL,

Walid jumblat shoots cocaine in his eyeballs, please dont take what he says seriously, he does not mean it!!

not too many braincells left that operate up there.

By the way this is the same guy who used to go to isreal for visits during the occupation thru jabal lebnan.

He is nothing short of a washed up mossad agent that out lived his time and term.

He is like the lebanese WWII planes , useless.

Loli said...

Lebnese Liona,
You may or may not be right about Jumblat, but your blog shows more passion than facts, which doesn't make it very credible. Let's stay rational in all this.

Omer (israeli) said...

al-ghad,
What about our grievences? You only tell ONE SIDE of the story. sorry, its true.
How come's south africa made peace?
You could say Israel is just agressive because of "zionism". But you could also realise that we are humans just like anybody else. Israel needs not to be threatned. How the hell can you trust someone who says "i wanna kill you", like HAMAS and HEZ thinks, talk outload, and DO.
What would you expect your country to do if you were murdered on daily basis?
You must be crazy if you think (as humans) that we will sucide.

The Pl's have real grievences, they will all have to be addresed in the final peace agreement.
But as long as they are not willing to "just" accept the borders of 48 UN resolution then i think everything will be fine. You see, Pl's violance outlived its purpose, seriously. Most people in israel today are willing to go back to the 48 border, for just something "small" called everlasting peace.

We even protest our goverment against the war in lebanon, agianst Cana. But frankly i never seen any protest, in any arab country, against sucide-bombers. did you know that they come as young as 14? I mean thats sick, using a child like that. I wanna see these leaders send there own son to do such stuff.
I never seen the arab world protesting the Ethnic cleansning done in somalia, uptill now a quater of a million got murdered. All in the name of Allah.

Never seen protests against Kassam rockets being sent from Gaza even after we pulled out of Gaza. Gee, Thanks, Pl's, sure go ahead kill us. Are you crazy? You can have gaza and the west bank, you want Tel-aviv? No way pal. you see i was born in israel. My friends, family, work is here. We are not going anywhere, just as much as Pl's aren't going anywhere. But if we havent learned that after rivers of bath (did you know? "zionists" bleed too!), then the situation is really hopeless

Thou i know its not true, but to some of the israeli's you look like heartless beasts.
Do you think that the IDF is in gaza or lebanon because we like it there? No, its because we are sick and tired of being murdered and victmized.
sorry, there are no stronger words to express these felling.

3li- said...

Loli-Every needy party country needs a benefactor/sponsor.

Israel has the US. $5 billion a year, military hardware, intelligence sharing, diplomatic and international cover, etc..;besides other aid/restitution from Germany and others. Is Israel the client of the US? No. Do they sometimes work in concert? Yes. Do they have differences of opinion about strategy and goals? Of course.

HA has a cultural, historical and ideological connection with Iran. It also shares some strategic goals with it for the area. That is a fact. Iran would like some allies to combat what it sees as US hegemony and monopoly in the Mideast that is antithetical to the interests of the peoples of the region, and Israeli oppression of the Palestinians and occupation of Holy Land. Is HA the client of Iran? No. Do they sometimes work in concert? Yes. Do they have differences of opinion about strategy and goals. Of course.

As for the HA fighters having blind allegiance to Nasrallah: They are, as any organized military force, dedicated to their organization. Just as Israeli soldiers are dedicated to their state. If you believe it is personal allegiance, you will again underestimate the ideology and discipline of HA as an organization with realistic and pragmatic goals. Nasrallah is not a dictator. Everyone knows that he has many deputies and other prominent figures in HA who help with formulating policy and strategies.

Now, I agree with you that there is a problem here, and it manifested itself in HA’s operation to capture the two soldiers. How does HA function within the state, and what is its role vis-à-vis the powers of the government and its decision-making? That is a real issue and the Lebanese will have to grapple with that for a while, and they were before the flare-up. It is complicated because we have so many different visions for Lebanon, depending on your sect, political affiliation, etc…but it is still an internal issue and one that the Lebanese will have to figure out for themselves. When a country like the US starts intervening to disarm HA, not for the sake of Lebanese sovereignty, but to subjugate any force in the Mideast that stands opposed to its policies, then we have a problem. When we have a country like Israel who now takes it upon itself to apply UN resolution 1559, while it stands in violation of over 50 UN resolutions itself vis-à-vis the Palestinians, and destroys most of Lebanon in the process, then we have a problem.

HA miscalculated, and now the Israelis are miscalculating. Israel needs to cease fire, address Lebanon’s grievances which are real and have nothing to do with Iran. The Lebanese have a long and arduous road ahead of them. They need to sit down and be honest and pragmatic about their country and its future. But it cannot be done when their lunatic neighbor to the south is bombing them into oblivion.

The Lebanese need to stand together now and demand that Israel cease its war against Lebanon, and stop giving it excuses by repeating simplistic jargon about HA. It is not helping.

Lebnese Liona said...

itai,

you are so stupid when it comes to strategy and politics thats you make bush sound like einstein.

Dude , stop watching these hollywood movies, its fogging up your mind.


HB will disarm when the land is freed

NASRALLAH will go down in history as the only arab leader to defeat the isreali state and its might.

Do you watch the news, you guys have accomplished nothing after 22 days of total and complete destruction.

your own newspapers and TV channels today crtisize your military operation and what it acheived.

Believe me you already lost this conflict, pack and go home with whatever dignity is left in you if any!!!

Loli said...

No matter what the past is made of, and "who started it," we need to look ahead. Suffering is on both sides. It's time we built a brighter future.

3li- said...

Omer-

If you were negotiating Israel's side based on what you said about going back to the 48 map, I bet many Palestinians will jump on it right away.

Again, I do not want anybody's blood to be shed. We all bleed red, and ache and hurt the same.

But the reality is Omer, is that your current and former governments do not offer what you are suggesting. Please look at your human rights organization Bet'Selem says about your offers to the Palestinians. See for yourself read-maps where the wall transgresses on their land. See where the West Bank settlements criss-cross Palestinians towns and villages and monopolize water resources. Check how East Jerusalem is being Judeaized everyday through sometimes brute force, or racist laws that undermine the rights of the Palestinian families who have been there for centuries.

I do not agree with suicide bombings. They are inhumane, but so are the practices of your soldiers, all documented by Human Rights organizations. Your country has been sued so many times in internations courts for Geneva Convention and International law violations.

As for the Arabs not taking the right stand on issues. What can I say. I am with you a hundred percent. the Arabs and their societies have a lot of problems that are internal and have nothing to do with the Palestinian struggle. But it still does not absolve Israel from its responsibilites and obligations towards its weaker subjects whom it has oppresses for decades.

Loli said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3

I agree and know that the US offers significant aid to Israel, and that's strategic, of course. That's also my whole point about Iran. It is purely strategic under the cover of fighting imperialism and other empty words. It's all about power, period, but the poor masses believe it is about defending Lebanese sovereignty. How HA did not fight Syria in its 2o years of history?? Sovereignty seems like a flexible concept to them. I find it unfortunate that a good number of my compatriots see things either black (Israel) or white (Iran, Syria, HA...)
People need to mature a bit and have some perspective.

I see we both agree about HA's miscalculations, but you don't seem to admit that this party decided to carry out a stupid plan not at all to defend Lebanon. Israel had long left Lebanon and no territories except for the bogus excuse of Shebaa Farms are occupied.

You are also right about Israel's attitude towards UN resolutions, but then again you are dwelling on the past.

Tell me, with all your heart and conscience, what are you hoping to achieve with your determination and belief that HA is doing the right thing (it is NOT, in my opinion) and that they should continue to fight Israel. Do you honestly believe this will have a positive outcome, except for more human loss??

Omer (israeli) said...

al-ghad,

I know the Bet'Selem map, its 90% of the west bank. If you ask me? its a mistake, it should with an agrement. Olmert today talked about doing the "Itkansut" the withdraw from 90% of west bank. But i know that will not bring israel peace.

Another problem is the Hamas, they want to "librate" all israel. And that agenda can't bring peace either.

Seriously, i was raised on solid morals. The PL's and there treatment complicated me with many moral questions, kids my age don't usally have. I don't like any one bit, that not how i vision "the chosen people", what a joke. But i also know, we are good people, war may have screwd our psych, but we have the heart in the right place.

That may sound strange to you, Heck it even sound strange to me.

What i'm saying if there is willings on both sides to go past grievences, to get an agreement both can live with (for israel the most importent thing is security, the one thing we haven't).

But reality is stronger then words, Iv'e lived long enoght in israel to know this.

3li- said...

Loli-I am puzzled!!

What are you suggesting, that HA lay its arms and get devoured by Israel? Please explain.

As for UN resolutions against Israel, what makes them ancient history, time? Do they have an expiration date? Do the Palestinians not exist anymore? Are they not living in refugee camps in your country? So shall HA, after a couple of years ignore 1559 as ancient history? I don't understand.

This is what I think, and where HA miscalculated. I believe HA truly wanted the prisoner exchange with Israel. They had touted that line for a long time, and made many pronouncements about it. As for the timing, I do believe that some of it had to do with distracting from the inhumane onslaught on Gaza. Bad miscalculation in its strategy, bu not in the right of the Lebanese to win back their prisoners.

Now you tell me exactly how HA helps Iran's goals if you keep insisting that it acted on its behalf.

Omer (israeli) said...

al-ghad,
why doesn't Hez fight for the dozens of lebanese prisoners in syrian jails?
What HEZ agenda agian?

Fighting Sullyvan said...

Here is an American perspective. I'm neither Lebanese or Israeli, Muslim or Jewish. I have some good friends that are Jewish and some that are Lebanese.

The Israelis and the Palestinians have to come to an arrangement. Personally I don't think that the Israelis would ever go back to the '48 borders, but I think most of them would go back to the '67 borders with some land exchanges to deal with the large settlements. Israel will have to give the Palestinians part of East Jerusalem. The Palestinians are going to have to resettle all those Palestinians living in refugee camps in their new country. It's only a matter of time before the Palestinians create one big country with Jordan, so all this talk about a vaiable state seems like a diversion. The Pals will have more than enough land to settle once they commit to peace.

The Lebanese HAVE to get Hezbollah under control. They cannot expect anyone to take them seriously until they actually have control of their own house. They are not in a position to make any deals or agreements while they are controlled by Hezbollah. The Israelis will no doubt return Shabba Farms to the Lebanese once Hezbollah is neutralized. The POWs and land mine maps will be sure to follow. Why did you expect them to give them to you while Hezbollah had a gun to their head?

OK - can we stop with the bullshit that Hezbollah is kicking Israel's ass? Are you people seriously that insecure and have such low self-esteem about your fighting ability that you think that you are winning this battle? You are getting smashed and your country is getting ruined. While you are effectively terrorizing Northern Israel you are doing a crappy job of defeating the Israelis. It's only because you set your bar so low that you can crow about winning. Look, if I go start a fight with my neighbor by smashing his car windows and he comes over and not only blows up my car, but systematically destroys my entire home while looking for me so he can kick my ass, it's a hollow victory for me to say that I've won because he wasn't able to kill me. Of course if all you've ever experienced is being the loser in fights, I guess relatively speaking this is what victory might seem like.

Final point - Hezbollah has said that after the Israelis cease fire Hezbollah is going to purge Lebanon of "traitors", i.e. those who oppose Hezbollah. What are those of you who oppose them planning on doing to protect yourselves? If I were Lebanese that is what I'd be thinking about right now.

Omer (israeli) said...

"from the risen blood of Martyr cry, Death, Death, Death to israel":

Here is one of the agendas of HEZ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZuU5P2YtEM&search=Hezbollah

Very peacfull people, How do i join?

Loli said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3
I am suggesting that HA accept some kind of negotiation and stop provoking Israel. They won't win. Nobody will. Both sides need to negotiate. Fighting won't solve anything. That was my point.

My other point about UN resolutions was that it won't serve any purpose to keep blaming Israel about being selective as to what resolution to apply. Double standards is a known problem. We need to think how to stop this vicious cycle. Palestinians did not gain anything from their long fight with Israel. Israel was never shy to display its brutal force and is still doing so. When I say let's not dwell on the past I mean that each one of us needs to start thinking ahead. WE are able to shape our future. If we're stuck in our grief (and hatred, for some), we won't make any progress. Why can't we follow Egypt's example? They fought war against Israel and then came to the conclusion that peace was the best solution. Now tell me, what's wrong with that?

3li- said...

Omer-

The honest answer is politics, priorites, culture, religion, history, etc...

Nothing is clean in the world..Lebanon has asked for their prisoners, and Syria has either released them or says it does not have the rest..

Many bad things happened between the lebanese and the Syrians. The Syrians fought and killed many in Lebanon, including Palestinians, HA or other Shia, Christians, etc...I am not defending them.

I think HA and the Syrians have a marriage of convenience-that of a shared problem with Israel whom they see as the elephant in the room. The Syrians and Lebanese, in spite of their differences and problems, are still cultural and religious brothers with a shared history. They regard Israel as a foreign entity forced upon their region and their land.

That's it.

Dimitry said...

The problem is, HA single-handedly decided to carry out this stupid plan of theirs. And now it's completely out of control. The vast majority of Lebanese people do not want war. They've had ENOUGH of it.


This is my hope. I was however replying to a specific sentiment, that by all eviedence you do not share.




Now, I agree with you that there is a problem here, and it manifested itself in HA’s operation to capture the two soldiers. How does HA function within the state, and what is its role vis-à-vis the powers of the government and its decision-making? That is a real issue and the Lebanese will have to grapple with that for a while, and they were before the flare-up. It is complicated because we have so many different visions for Lebanon, depending on your sect, political affiliation, etc…but it is still an internal issue and one that the Lebanese will have to figure out for themselves.

First, it stopped being internal issue the moment Hiz attacked Israel (well, technically, that was 6 years ago, but that's beyond the point).
Second, I completely disagree with your sentiments here. In a sovereign country, there is no room for a military force that isn't under the government's control, period. By the very definition of the word sovereignity. If Hiz respects Lebanese sovereignity, they must disarm, or be absorbed into the Lebanese military.
I honestly cannot see how Hiz's refusal to disarm can be viewed as anything but a rebellion against Beirut. Please enlighten me.


Ah, and please, tell me. Why is it so important for Lebanon to free a person who smashed in the face of a 4 years old girl with his rufle butt?

3li- said...

Fighting sullyvan-

"Hezbollah has said that after the Israelis cease fire Hezbollah is going to purge Lebanon of "traitors", i.e. those who oppose Hezbollah."

Who said that and when?

Loli said...

Dimitry,
I couldn't agree more regarding HA.
As for the Lebanese prisoners, I personally do not want such people back, but for the sake of argument, and given the current circumstances, they may be considered POW, and therefore Lebanon has the right to ask for their release.

3li- said...

Loli-Your heart is in the right place.

Egypt got their land back-They made peace.

Palestinians still have not gotten anything. I suggest you look up the Bet'Selem web page I mentioned above and see for yourselves what kind of a state Israel is offering to them. It is ridiculous.

As for HA accepting negotiations-I don't think you've been following the news-HA has completely supported Lebanon's government's offer for a cease fire and negotiations over the pertinent issues between Israel and Lebanon. Israel (and the US) have so far refused thinking they can just smash HA and dictate their own terms. It's been there for the last week-no takers...

Omer (israeli) said...

I don't care if they realese Samir kuntar, if theres peace. Not "cease-fire", Peace. Then i know that Samir Kuntar is your problem, not mine.

Itai said...

Lebnese Liona I guess the truth pissed you off :-) Nasrallah will go down in history all right, very soon, as a moron who destroyed Lebanon for nothing. You didn't present a realistic option for him did you? Just an ad-hominem attack, and not a very sophisticated one at that.

As for Israel's accomplishments (I apologize for repeating some of it):
Israelis developed and manufacter the pentium 4 proccesor you probably use right now. The centrino processor, some of windows XP. Israel is at the front of biotech research, advanced medical research and cancer research. We probably saved more Arab lives than all your medical facilities put together. The only high-tech companies traded in NASDAQ out of America are Israeli. Oh...I forgot the cellphone, you probably use one of those too, well it was invented by Israelis (Motorola Israel).

Look at the state our people built while fighting for its survival for 60 years. we are 0.25 percent of our enemies population, we are 0.01% of our enemies territory. We have no natural resources. Our society absorbed immigrants 5 times its original size. we built the strongest economy in the middle east. GDP per capita 28th in the world. Arab citizens in Israel enjoy equal rights, social security, they enjoy more freedoms and have a better standard of living than their brothers in the Arab world (Except for Quwait and Qatar probably and not the freedoms part)

So...what did the Arabs contributed to civilization in the past 500 years? Violence? Oil?

Come on, unburden some of that frustration, curse some more.

anthonyb said...

Israel is fighting Hezbollah, not Lebanon.
If the Lebanese really want to be free of the agenda of Hezbollah they will have to fight for it.

Freedom isn't free.

3li- said...

loli-This will be my last post to you.

But what is it that you agree with Dimitri regarding HA? That Israel has the right to rape Lebanon for HA's operation?

Dimitry said...

omer,
And you assume Kuntar would find this peace binding? It will be very much Israel's problem when he murders again, which he will.

Loli said...

al-ghadabu

This is what I agree with Dimitry about:
In a sovereign country, there is no room for a military force that isn't under the government's control, period... If Hiz respects Lebanese sovereignity, they must disarm, or be absorbed into the Lebanese military.

Omer (israeli) said...

dimitry,
I dont care what he finds, as long hes under control.

Peace is just a dream. As you know the HEZ will not unarm. And i'm afraid there gonna be lebanon-israeli war III and IV and probebly V. that's just to be realistic.
We all know what HEZ agenda is, whether we admit or not. "Death to israel". Iranians will fight israel till the last drop of Lebanese blood.

But i can dream,

3li- said...

Loli-Ok,this is my last post for now..

I ulitmately agree with you. But I wish you would make your position clear to the Israelis that they cannot devastate Lebanon as they are doing right now. HA's operation, regardless of your take on it, cannot justify the slaughter taking place against your citizens...

Loli said...

Omer,
If most people in Israel thought like you, then our peoples' future is doomed. You have to have the will to build peace. It's not something that will be dropped for you from the sky. You and I, and our respective compatriots need to BUILD peace. Based on your assumption, the vicious circle will not be broken anytime soon. Pls think it over before you post some war-favorable blog.

Dimitry said...

And what control would that be?


My dreams are modest. I personally dream of a sovereign, independent Lebanon, that has cordial relations with Israel. What you say is true, and mean that Hiz would have to be broken by force, and it would have to be the Lebanese who do it (or at the very least, the Lebanese population must support this). I would've dismissed this dream, except that last year, the Lebanese made the Syrians leave. So perhaps, there's hope.

Loli said...

al-ghadabu,

I thought I was clear that I am AGAINST any act of violence. Pls read again my posts. I don't need to pester to show that I am against the war. Quite the contrary. I am seeking peaceful minds and hearts among my fellow bloggers. I am against the war waged on Lebanese, Palestinian and Israeli soil. Don't expect me to just pity my compatriots. All of us are human beings who deserve our human dignity, nothing less.

eli said...

Hezbollah is not about recovering a tiny piece of land called sheba farm or releasing a couple of Lebanese criminals held in Israeli prisons. That’s not why Iran pays hizbakka 40 million dollars a month. Hezbollahs goal is to impose a theocratic fundamentalist regime, first in Lebanon and eventually over the entire Arab world, in order to further the glory of Allah and hasten the arrival of the mahdi (the Muslim messiah).

In the Iranian-Hezbollah utopia 16 year old girls will be hanged for committing "adultery" (like in Iran today), authors will be condemned to death and society will be dragged back to the dark ages (only kind of scientific research allowed will be nuclear weapon development).

That’s why most Arab régimes are against iran-hizballah.

mikealpha said...

How the palestinians came to be inflicted upon Lebanon and go on to provoke the 1st Israeli invasion.

Arafat tried to set up his own state in Jordan , ignoring Jordanian law and engaging in numerous thefts and murders icluding the ritual murder of Jordanian troops by driving 9" nails into their heads.
On September 16, 1970 King Hussein declared martial law. The next day, Jordanian tanks (the 60th armored brigade) attacked the headquarters of Palestinian organizations in Amman; the army also attacked camps in Irbid, Salt, Sweileh and Zarqa making no distinction between civilians and the guerrillas.

Palestinians in Damascus tried to reinforce assisted by Syrian armor. Jordan requested help from America. The US dispatched the 6th fleet long with a marine assault ship. The US also asked Israel to scare Syria. This the IDF did by overflights of the Syrian tank columns. Arafat backed down and negotiated a settlement. The following June the palestinians attempted to overthrow the Jordanian government . The Jordanian army engaged the palestinians.
Palestinian casaulties were in the tens of thousands. Nasser called it a genocide . the palestinians were eventially driven out of Jordan into Lebanon.


Lebanese conclusion. Those no-good Israelis are to blame.

Try some Middle eastern logic today. It's a refreshing change from sanity.

CMAR II said...

This is interesting:

* The Lebanese fail to oust a foreign backed militia, leading inevitably to an invasion caused by said militia's adventurism.

* The Palestinians, repeatedly, fail to grasp peace and independence when it was put on the table in front of them.

* The Iraqi Shi'a and Sunni Arabs fail (temporarily, I hope) to pull together patriotically to accept peace and modernity and to rub out recalcitrant Ba'athists and foreign Takfirs among them (the Iraqi Kurds don't seem to have "failed" in that regard).

Yet this is this the failure of those people?? NO. It is the failure of the UNITED STATES!

This reminds me of this recent post.

Omer (israeli) said...

sorry Loli,

Can you tell me thats not their ideology?
With Pl's there is hope, They might still hate us, but willing to accept the idea of peace.

But with HEZ, they will just continue to propogate there ideas to kids from young age. They teach them to hate us. We dont teach in schools to hate them, the news does that for us.
This is reality.

what do you belive they mean when HEZ say "occupied north israel", as they are a resistance group? No. They want tel-aviv, and thats unexeptable.

I hope i'm wrong when i say they'll attack again, and i also hope i'm wrong when i say Israel will again act in the same way.

I might be passimistic. But dam, i hope I'm wrong.

3li- said...

Here's a URL showing what Israel has done to Beirut's Southern Suburbs in the last three weeks:

http://arabist.net/archives/2006/08/02/beiruts-southern-suburbs/

GSH - Observer said...

cmar ii;

I know what you mean by your question...it really seems that those entities failed, not the USA.

As you might know, these entites are nothing but "ponds" in this chess game between USA on one side , Syria, Iran and their ponds (HA) on the other side.

If the USA fail to read the situation it will make the wrong move, thus it is its fault.

Please note that these entities might seem to have the freedom of making choices and acting on these choices, but this is not true.
they have a very limited freedom in choice and action since the steps to take are already determined and planed by the USA' policy in the region.

Poul said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3,

>> My point is that Lebanese grievances agaisnt Israel are much longer that anything the Jewish state can muster or use as a pretext to launch its savagery against Lebanon..

not really. for decades, lebanon was allowing palestinian terrorists to attack israeli civilians from palestinian territory, this is why israel went into lebanon in 1980s to begin with. so you guys started it. and you contunue to starting it, like you are incapable of learning a lesson.

CMAR II said...

GSH - Observer,

they have a very limited freedom in choice and action since the steps to take are already determined and planed by the USA' policy in the region.

If that were true, then Arafat would have accepted the peace proposal that President Clinton's negociators arranged rather than rejecting it and starting a new intifada.

If that were true, the Lebanese would have invited the US to come in and help them expunge HA from their borders.

If that were true, the Iraqi Sunni Arabs would have laid down their arms and accepted the new democratic Iraq. And the Iraqi Shiya Arabs would have listened to Sistani rather than Al-Sadr.

No. The problem is that those entities rejected US policy for the region. What we have now, is what they chose instead.

EvilConCarne said...

Walid Jumblatt was the smartest of the Lebanese leaders. He saw the growing internal threat that Hizbuallah was and how its interests were those of its patrons Iran and Syria. Hizbullah is a mafia, pure and simple. They operate as one with their military arm and their charity arm aimed at gaining the loyalty of the people.

I personally look forward to seeing Hizbullah marginalized, but Israel has approached this in the wrong manner. If Israel would have focused its might and anger on Hizbullah targets and not Lebanese Infrastructure and people then the Lebanese government would have been strengthened and we finally would've been able to deal with these thugs.

History will tell if this strategy ultimately helped Lebanon and Israel or strengthened Syria and Iran.

Loli said...

Poul,
Let's not get into the who "started it" rhetoric because there would be a lot to say in this matter, and we could go back to 1948, but it won't do us any good.
Since I seek peace and I do hope you do too, the question is not who started it, rather are we willing to end it once and for all?
Are you? I can assure you a lot of Lebanese want to.

Lirun said...

this is bizarre.. you'd would think that hatred was some binding precedent that we all had to comply with.. why are we all subscribing so passionately to failures of the past.. why is it so important for us to assure the continuity of such failures?

its time to change this $%^&

wishing us all peace and safety

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
note that hatred is optional only

Loli said...

Don't ask me. I'm all for peace. Thanks for sticking to it.

Itai said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3 these photos prove an important point. The air force bombings were all done in a very well defined rectangle. This rectangle was the HZA headquarters and their residential area. It was turned into it with Iranian money. It also had munition depots in it. Measure this urban area in relation to Beirut urban area and understand that 95% or so of Beirut is safe and peaceful. Citizens sit comfortably in cafes while in Haifa and northern Israel every citizen is a valid target for HZA, everybody hide in shelters for 3 weeks now.

Itai said...

EvilConCarne I don't know where you get your info from. Israel does focus its might and anger on Hizbullah targets. Look at the photos Al-Ghadabulsaati3 posted and (from an arab site no less) and read my previous comment:

http://arabist.net/archives/2006/08/02/beiruts-southern-suburbs/

The blockade and bombings of the runaways and land routes to Syria is for the purpose of preventing HZA from getting more arms from Syria and Iran and transporting our hostages to another country.

However, HZA is also a part of the Lebanese government and his militia is legal in Lebanon so Lebanon can't avoid its responsibility for what's taking place. It's NOT a neutral observer and their claims in the media that they are innocent victims of the situation are pathetic.

Considering this, Israel had been very lenient and too careful not to harm Lebanese government infrastructure.
I guarantee you that the U.S. and Europeans would have carpet bombed their asses if they faced a similiar situation:
A neighbouring country hosts a militia that sits in that country's government no less. Calls for their destruction, raids across their border, fire rockets at their cities. Come on...what would the U.S. or France do? (well the French would have probably surrendered, but still)

Ariya said...

Then do something about it. I thought "moderates" far outnumbered the "tiny minority if extremists" in Muslim lands. Stop sitting on your asses blaming everyone else for your problems and look in the mirror. The failure to have done so for so long is what brings you this misery.

Ariya said...

Ok, I should have read down a bit further before commenting, but I guess I have to make another post in reply to Lebnese Liona's "Jumblatt is a Jew sympathizer! A drug addict! A Mossad agent!"... it's people like you that make life miserable for Arabs in the Middle East. Have you ever thought for one second that Jews just might have similar feelings, thoughts and concerns as you do, except from the other side of the aisle? Apparently not. They are lowly Jews after all.

BTW, are you in Dearborn? I think someone wrote an article about you... :rolls eyes:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060802/METRO/608020358/1020

What are you still doing here? Leave for Lebanon and join your Hezbullah friends.

Fares said...

Assad is the natural choice
PEACE To Lebanon

dunes said...

all i hear is OY OY OY they are attacking us .....

loli:
i can go back to 1929 and even before that...
all that this proves is that arabs dont like jews infact almost all the world and that include christians dont like the jews.
we are considerd the black sheep of the world . every time bad things happend in the world - the rest of the world blames the jews.
so ... all i can say you have to prove to us you dont want to kill us and all we keep hearing from your leadrs is "destory israel".

Omer (israeli) said...

yep,
And sorry. "I gonna kill you" is not a valid side for negotiation. Why should we belive Hamas, when they don't even hide their ideology. When they Do their Idelogy. Who will guarntee our safty?

If israel said: "We gonna kill all arabas" would that be a valid statment for anything but war?
Would the arab world say: "You have to have the will to build peace. It's not something that will be dropped for you from the sky". would they say it?

Why should Pl's get there land, If they only wan't to build there missile launchers with iranian money? so they can later free "All" of palestine (Tel-aviv).

Should we ignore what both Hamas and HEZ are saying outload? call it joke? Sorry, its our life that on the line. I understand YOU are willing to take the chance that WE will die, But sorry, we are not.

I wonder if the arab world will protest when Iran completes its ME agenda, and genocide us like the same ideology is doing In sudan.

Sorry, "I gonna kill you", ain't no valid opening for negotiation.
I agree we need peace, but the first step is to respect the exitance of the other side, without that, no negotiation will ever sucseed.

Lebnese Liona said...

fighting sullivan,

I like your example about the house and car, but here is what your example is missing to make truley comparable.

Your neigbor happened to be this 400 pound beast, fully armed , killed your family, breaks into your house when ever he wants , jumps into your bed into the middle of the night and rapes you wife when ever he wants, beats up your kids whenever he wants, and on top of all that grabs by the neck and asks you to kiss his foot and accept him as your superior ruler.

Also, a little factoid for you. HB is not a conventional army, you saw how the IRAQI's army got wiped out in hrs!!! For HB to fight a conventional way they need to be matched militarly and technology wise with isreal and thats why they have to fight the way they do. Why do you think the Lebanese Army is useless. If it does enter the fight and I know it will if isreal keeps advancing, it will be wiped out in 2 hrs becasue its conventional army and easy pray. Hope you understand now.



Now , re run your scenrio and see how it feels!!!


Dunes,

The reason most people hate the jews is very simple, while what hitler did to you is absolutly UNACCEPTABLE, IT is also UNACCEPTABLE for you to take someone elses land and claim it yours!!! As simple as that.

Now, I am a realistic, I know that palestine would never be given back to its rightful owner. At this point its not my problem and I dont care, but for you to think that you can expand your country slowly because you got away with it before and the arabs are two week to stop you.

Well you got another thing coming, and thats why WE the Lebanese are willling to die and get our contry destroyed over Shebaa farms, YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS NO MORE ABOUT THE PATHETIC PEICE OF LAND THE SIZE OF MY US TOWN, ITS ABOUT THE PRINCIPAL NOW!!!!

Thats what frustrates you guys , little dinky lebanon able to stand to the terror country isreal while all other countries failed to do that.

Omer (israeli) said...

And i'm not talking about ppl in this blog. But as the ideology of HEZ and Hamas.

Omer (israeli) said...

Liona,
I'm very happy you are willing to die for "PRINCIPAL". The same an israeli will say he's willing to die for the "PRINCIPAL" of living in peace and not getting attacked from neigbouring countrys.

How does that bring peace?

Lebnese Liona said...

loli,

You are correct I will stick to the facts.


FACT--- THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DYING IN THE SOUTH ARE THE WIVES, SONS, DAUGHTERS, PARENTS, GRANDPARENTS, SISTERS , BROTHERS of every HB fighter out on the border.


So please, if you are of a lebanese decend stop spreading cancer and at least agree on a simple fact that Lebanon is being torn apart by isreal's plan to destroy it.

Lirun said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
deVoss said...

This is the fear that many of us have in the West (at least Americans like myself who are not incredibly sympathetic towards Israel). There is no denying that Hezbollah and the pro-Syrian front are using the tragedies of Qana and all other civilian deaths in Lebanon as propaganda to bolster the support of a "common cause" against Israeli aggression. There's also no question that these pro-Syrian elements, backed by Hezbollah, have had and continue to have every intention of dismantling Lebanon's inclusive democracy for one that favors militancy and radicalism. I can't fault decent, normal Lebanese people for siding with what they perceive as the lesser of two evils (Hezbollah). Yet if Hezbollah has their way--the backing of hundreds of thousands of moderate, non-Shia Lebanese and perhaps the tacit support of millions--they will not hesitate to capitalize upon it. This means that all Lebanese will once again be subject to the whims of Syrian hegemons and Nasrallah's agitators from the South. In the (hopefully near) future, Israel will give up this pointless, destructive campaign. Hezbollah will never surrender to Lebanon until the entire nation is sucked into their groupthink of martyrdom and aggression. This might be useful to consider next time you throw your support behind "the Party of God" and not "the People of Lebanon".

Lirun said...

seriously guys.. if this was about the sheba farms.. why did HA not attack syria for claiming its theirs? this is all so twisted..

plan to destroy? what are you a drone?

seriously dude.. its sad.. but no one in israel even thought about lebanon before the war except for the katyushas hailing down - but even that was just seen as a fact of life.. it was called the "quiet border"

israel has never planned to destroy lebanon..

the thing that pisses me off is that the peaceful people are simply that.. they are peaceful and quiet and unheard.. you do not represent your country lebnese liona..

i have learned that your views are not the common take..

i am comforted to know that there are people just like me and my friends that seek peace between our countries..

it'll come no matter what you say - notwithstanding your fears and in spite of your bias..

wishing everyone a safe day

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
there are a lot of us

Loli said...

Leb Liona,
I am Lebanese, was born and raised in Lebanon, have witnessed the war, lost a family member (a civilian) to the war and guess what, all my family is still in Lebanon. It is precisely war that taught me about peace, its necessity as the only viable solution. So pls, don't jump to conclusions about me, and try to post more tasteful comments. I am a voice of moderation, I am only seeking peace, and just because I do not support HA and despise Israeli civilians doesn't give you the right to accuse me of spreading cancer. If you don't appreciate peace, maybe you don't deserve it. I had a constructive discussion with al-ghadabulsaati3, but it seems like a dead-end with you.
Oh, one more point: while your fact about Leb civilian victims in the south is true and utterly sad, it is completely irrelevant to your comment about Jumblatt.

Loli said...

dunes,
I sincerely hope you get out of this circular thinking: everybody is against the Jews, including christians, therefore we should continue war on Lebanon?! I said I wanted peace (and I'm not the only one) and this is the response I get. Communication can be so hard.
It's such a sad world we live in.

Itai said...

FACT: HZA sometimes wear uniforms and sometime they don't a violation of the Geneva convention punishable by death. They fire rockets from civilian urban areas = dead Lebanese civilians is their fault.

Lebanon is exaggerating about the damages and the death toll. Counting armed "citizens" as civilian casualties and not publishing the exact details of the alleged victims they just give high "estimates" in order to get Israel off their back.

I'm for one disappointed with the Israeli air campaign, I think we should have kicked more ass. These results don't guarantee our detterence for more than 5-6 years. We should focus on Lebanon's infrastructure, turn the lights off in Beirut etc'

Lebanon IS responsible for Hezbollah's attacks.
Sovereignty = Responsibility.

Loli said...

Thank you for wanting to destroy Lebanon. How responsible! And you give us lessons about responsibility??!!

egyptianvoltaire said...

To hell with Walid,Nasrallah and all people of defeat and destruction .You are Phoenician,a clever and smart people.How this sonofbitch accumulate all these rockets and ammunitions under own eyes of lebanese people to demolish a state with full equipped army.He is a maniac but the people must be reasonable.I donot blame Israel for anything but I blame Lebanese for their stupidity.Get unite and regain your old glory.What a pity !!

Omer (israeli) said...

"blame Lebanese for their stupid"

I don't. They are not stupid. Just caugt between fire. I don't even blame normal lebanese for fighting us. After all we are attacking them right now.

But i also hope the the normal, non-indoctronated lebanese will control HEZ somehow after the war.
I might be naive, but i think that HEZ is endangering any voice of moderation in ME, and indeed distabalizing the region, and use the popular Anti-israeli feeling to manipulate their agenda. And that agenda will never bring peace to the ME.

The sad thing is, thou. That the normal-lebanese doesn't have much say about what the future actions of HEZ will be.

Frankly, i think that HEZ doesn't count non-shia population. May they they be jewish or christian-lebanese.
They see only "Dar Al-Harb" and martydom. revenge, honor and blood.
Very noble, but bloody and murderous.

1earth said...

Hezbollah is now firing its rockets at the lowly populated farms of the Golan Heights. Why? Because Lebanese have shown they are nothing more than little Syria.

eyal said...

After reading the following article in NRG I understand why there are so many ppl which hates us the israelies.
Please read the english version here: "http://www.nrg.co.il/images/news/media/the_media.doc"
The original article in hebrew is here: "http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/458/484.html"
The main poit here is that HA is showing the world only what the want and threating jurnalist if they do not follow their orders.
In israel which is a free country it could never happend.
Lets see your comments about it....

Tichondrius1 said...

Lebanese Liona by his own admission lives in the US, so I agree he probably don't represent the feeling of most lebanese hat actually live in Lebanon. It's easy to sit in a far away country, away from the war, and say to the people there that it's better to fight for something that is so small and unimportant (such as some farm) even at the cost of your country being destroyed. Im surprised that you haven't gotten the point by reading american news sources, that basically Israel wants peace and security, but Lebanon allows Hezbollah to grow (or even supports it) just because Lebanon has some minor unresolved issues with Israel, then it's their own fault when Israel retaliates when its attacked by Hezbollah. Allowing Hezbollah to have military force to "protect" lebanon, or more specifically to be able to harras Israel so it complies with your demands for Shebaa farms or whatever - means that Lebanon is responsible for any acts of war commited by Hezbollah. But this whole Shebaa farms issue is a red herring anyway, as the declared charter of Hezbollah and their Iranian backers is to destroy Israel, so how do you expect Israel to believe that if only it give back the stupid farm, Hezbollah will stop fighting it and will agree to live in peace with Israel. We all know that is BS and that Hezbollah will continue to pursue its agenda to destroy Israel, and will use other excuses such as helping the palestinians (an excuse it used in the past). So basically what you said about Lebanon/Hezbollah having so-called legitimate reasons against Israel is simply deceptive excuse when the real agenda of Hezbollah is well known, and Lebanon is responsible for it because it operates from it sovereign territory.

Lirun said...

doha you megastar!! "http://www.smh.com.au/news/TECHNOLOGY/Blogworld-goes-into-hyperdrive-over-Lebanon-conflict/2006/08/03/1154198218406.html"

australia is writing about you..

loli.. dont give up.. these people arent expressing their views - they're just venting..

and even if they think this way - they are the infamous 10% as doha would call it..

wishing peace to all

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
if sister marlena can do it.. so can we

chen said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Lirun said...

loli.. more and more people are participating on my blog.. close to 1000 clicks since i started 2 weeks ago and peace isnt even in vogue right now.. you yourself being a star commentator..

i have faith in what we represent.. i believe that you as a lebanese are doing great service to your people and i stand proudly for mine..

this conflict allowed us to learn of eachother's views and discover we have much more in common than we thought..

once the conflict subsides and war gets kicked off the political catwalk - hopefully the momentum we seek will reveal itself..

we need to make our peace grow.. but yo and i have peace

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
everyone else can too..

chen said...

loli- i think itai's point was that
1.lebanon is responsible for hizballah's actions from it's sovereign territory.
2.the reason it hasn't dealt with hizballah in the last 6 years is due to lack of motivation to do so.

the combination of the two provide that lebanon should be held acountable for HA's actions, and it apperantly needs to see that allowing HA to act on lebanese soil is not in it's interest.

though u don't have to agree, u do have to see the logic in that.
personally i think that it had already been made clear, and we shouldn't destroy infrastructure
that is purely civilian in order to send that massage.

seeker said...

Tichondrius1,
Regarding Propoganda, that's not new, both sides use it though Israel is lousy in that,
You can see it even in this blog Israelis are much too rightous to make an appealing propoganda (Albeit, they try).

Regarding this praticluar artical and Ynet in general.
It's funny that YNET is criticising the BBC.
I put YNET in the same level as BBC, it writes to extract emoition and uses the bare minimum of information to that ends.
There are very good to read togather, because they orient themselves at opposite publics, so you can be sure that the overlapping information is likely to be true.

moral ground said...

And we all should take the words of Jumblat to heart, because he's such an honest, caring, selfless man.

/shoot myself

Fighting Sullyvan said...

Here is the link to the Guardian article on Hezbollah retribution at the end of the conflict

http://www.guardian.co.uk/syria/story/0,,1832931,00.html

Despite Israel's claims to have inflicted heavy losses on Hizbullah, Ali insists his side is in a strong position. "Things are going very well now, whatever happens we are winning. If they keep bombing us we will stay in the shelters, and with each bomb more people support the resistance. If they invade they will repeat the miserable fate they had in 1982, and if they hold one square foot they will give the Islamic resistance all the legitimacy. If they want to kill Hizbullah they have to kill every Shia in the south of Lebanon."

And even when the battle with the Israelis is over, he adds menacingly, Hizbullah will have other battles to fight. "The real battle is after the end of this war. We will have to settle score with the Lebanese politicians. We also have the best security and intelligence apparatus in this country, and we can reach any of those people who are speaking against us now. Let's finish with the Israelis and then we will settle scores later."

Lebnese Liona said...

loli,

I am not a HB supporter!!, I support anybody that would stand for injustice.

And you are not the only onw who had relatives die in the isreali aggression. Half my family was wiped out in 1982. OK.

I was untill this conflict the most moderate person in the world.

15 of my 30 yrs of existence have been spent in the USA. I have jewish friends, I am not for anything but peace.

Let me tell you something that I hope would make you think a little about how innocent our isreali friends are. I have some conncetions in the UN, a high ranking Irish UN commander to be specific. I spoke to him about the UN killings that happended last week or so. He specifically told me that it was an order a very high order from IDF central command that came to take out the UN post.

Now you tell me why on earth would isreal want to do that unless they are trying to send a message to the UN observers.

Maybe the isreali folks on this websites do want peace, but thats not what the news says . Over 90% of isreali population supports what isreal is doing. We even get guys like itai questioning the QANA incident if it really happened!!!!

So PLEEEAAAAASEEEEE dont try to show me how civilized and mature and logicall you are.


Wake up and smell the roses or should I say death that is surrounding our home country.

Tichondrius1 said...

lebanese liona are you for real ? you try to cast doubt over the other members while you yourself express views which almost no one else in the USA really believes. Like when you said Israel bombed then UN post on purpose - I don't think people in the USA and in the rest of the world believe that. It doesn't make any sense that "they are trying to send a message to the UN". What is the message ? They already said they want a UN force to be deployed, so what is the message they are trying to send by bombing the existing UN force ? Just wondering what you mean, and if you care to explain what you are saying. But I don't expect you to, because most of what you say doesn't make sense, and sounds like subjective propaganda. Also think, wouldn't the Israelis know that killing the UN observers would bring negative criticism on them, and would be bad for them because it might force them to stop their campaign ? Another point about your claimed UN friend that supposedly knows that bombing the UN post was "a very high order from IDF central command". Now how would someone in the UN know that ? How would he know about who in the IDF gave the order and where it came from ? You expect anyone to believe that someone in the IDF actually told the UN that the there was a deliberate order from the IDF central command to bomb the UN post ? Again another blatant lie that doesn't make ANY sense at all. In fact I find that reading your posts is a waste of time, but I just wanted to expose the utter non-sense of your statements.

Loli said...

Hey Tichondrius1
That's precisely why I did not respond to Leb liona. He can't even argue.

Peace is the solution

Lebnese Liona said...

tichondrius1,

are you pro isreal? are you jewish?

I am mean really, I am a lebanese american, i dont have to hide that fact what are you?

lets get that on the table first, then we can talk.

Lebnese Liona said...

loli,

actually I was wasting my time responding to you.

Believe me from now on I wont bother with you.

Tichondrius1 said...

Lebnese liona, I'm just a regular american, and I make up my mind based on my values and beliefs that everyone have their rights and freedoms.

Now if you want to retain any credibility, tell everyone what you mean by saying that Israel bombed the UN post on purpose to send a message to the UN. What is the message and what is the reason Israel would want to bomb the UN post ?

Don't try to evade the question, just give your answer - if you can. Otherwise I'll treat everything you say from now on as a bunch of crap not worthy of a response.

Tichondrius1 said...

lebanese liona, answer the question, I dsre you ! you little piece of ...... cat got your tongue ? I guess that means you admit your stetement was complete BS ! Now everyone knows how stupid you are , and not to even bother reading what you have to say, because just like this statement, most of what you say is NONSENSE.

abou al jamejem said...

I would like you guys to excuse me just a bit, especially those of you who don't speak arabic. Ayri bi Neseralla, Wayri bi Lahood el mastoul, w ari bi Michel Aon el khayen, dammarou el balad. Now I would like to translate what I just said: Fuck Neseralla, fuck Emil Lahood our Idiot president, and fuck Michel Aoun the former General who became pro Syrian. When the fuck Iran and Syria are going to leave us alone. Iran should be destroyed. All of you guys who support Huzeballa are bunch of idiots. Huseballa dosen't give a fuck about us, they care more about their masters in Iran and Syria. Hasan neseralla Ayri betrayed not only lebanon but his own people. thank you all.

Lirun said...

guys what happened.. i thought we understood eachother yesterday

Lirun said...

some guy from lebanon who says he is near qana just emailed me that a bomb was dropped 5 buildings away and he flew in th eair 50 metres.. and his knees are now hurting and he has a scratch on his face..

does this make any sense?

50 metres?