Tuesday, August 15, 2006

Once you taste honey...

169 comments:

tony.2.tone said...

You people make me sick with all your lovey dovey talk, especially you liona, here you countrymen are being slaughted by the Jewish army who incidentally is completely supported by the Israeli public as they polls announce, yet you sit here and trade lovey dovey remarks with the very people that support their army getting stronger and expanding the invasion.

You throw lovey dovey comments at the very Jews that will one day serve in their army and most probably have the scalp of a couple of arabs (most likely palestinians) to brag about with their comrades. You make me sick girl.

Learn where you come from and who is killing you countrymen, and understand that every Jewish Israeli whether they be child or adult, will eventually serve in the military and contribute to the suffering of our peoples.

Give them what they deserve and that is to tell them to **********.

Kifaya said...

Yep, time for another march! Can one be planned for and ready by...say...next week?

lebinusa said...

This will silence all Zionists, and anti-Hezbollah Lebanese. While you continually blame Hezbollah, why don't you read this, and see who the real enemy was!

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/14/1358255

Oh, the great thing about this article: It was written by a Jew :)

Ran said...

So far the ceasefire seems to hold. I so hope it keeps up and I don't give a rat's ass for who can declare "victory".

Tony2tone,

What harm is done? If anything, when people on both sides of the border get to expereience each other as human beings, they will be less likely to support war. The real question is: what are you afraid of? Does the humanity of the other side offend you? Are you too comfortable with seeing people as "us" versus "them"?

Tjex said...

Yeah and??

HZA got us into this mess, they are the ones that gave Israel the excuse to kill over 1000 Lebanese. If it wasn't for them, life would be great in Lebanon right now.. but instead, we don't have any roads or bridges.

THAT is what your precious HZA (ie: slaves of Iran and Syria) has done.

Go fight your wars somewhere else. LEBANON FOR LEBANESE!! Anyone that doesn't understand that doesn't have Lebanon at heart.

Tjex said...

Tony,

Talking 'to the other side' is constructive. I don't know about you but I want peace, I'm sick of the war. Understanding each other is the step forward. Hiding behind walls and throwing insult at each other is what 2 year olds do. Hopefully this dialog will bring us all closer to each other and to a better future for all.

lebinusa said...

?

If you read the article and had a brain, you would realize that Israel was going to attack them ANYWAY. So your argument that HZ brought this upon Lebanon is false.

Ran said...

It appears that Nasrallah's has become very popular is the "Arab world" (whatever that means), except in Lebanon where many are angry at him.

I think the answer is simple -- he should take his militia and move them to Syria. He can attack Israel all he wants from there, and leave Lebanon alone. Let Assad put his money where his mouth is.

Sylvia said...

What would it take for lebanon to see HZA is just antoher Syria, controlling the Lebanese people. When will Lebanon stand up and see that it is being destroyed over and over again for wars they do not themselves wage..I wonder how HZA is going to build all the homes he promises to the victims of the war he brought upon them? Is Lebanese Government so weak that he becomes enslaved to IRAN and SYRIA or is is the Iranian money you love and sold your own people to. If you do not stand for something, you will fall for anything.

Tjex said...

Hmm no.. I did read the article. It does not say that they could attack for no reason.
I do believe HZA attacked Israel first!! And THUS, yes.. they gave Israel to rain their bombs on Lebanon.
Sooooooo.. yes, I blame it all on HZA.

Besides, why are you supporting a group that doesn't care about Lebanon and serves the will of Syria and Iran? Support you own damn country! Shame on you.

Sherri said...

Hezbullah is a Lebanese group that represents Shiite Muslims who live in Lebanon. And it is my understanding they make up 40% of the population. I believe they care about their communities and their country. They share the same religion with Iran, being Shiite Muslims. But they are Lebanese and Arabs, not Persian.

Why can't the groups in Lebanon come together? Why can't Hezbullah become part of the Lebanon army, like a separate branch with autonomy, but that answers to higher authorities in the government. They did pretty well aginst Israel, and mabe that type of guerilla organization is the only type of force that can fight effectively against Israel or other similar foes. If they were a part of the government or army, that would take care of the disarming problem. They would not need to disarm.

abou al jamejem said...

If you guys wanna help killing Nesralla you should check these two websites, they are really funny:

http://www.planetnana.co.il/atarsh//flashoo/nasral.html

http://www.amirlotan.com/nassralla/nasralla.html

tony.2.tone said...

Ran,

The harm that is done is that by talking to the Jewish murderers and playing all lovey and dovey with them, you are actually providing them with a sort of shelter from the criticism that is deserved them.

Remember that all Israeli citizens have to serve in the army, thus making potentially every citizen an enemy who would have no qualms about dropping a 1 tonne bomb on you once commanded to by their superiors.

Do you understand that? Huh? These people that you so desperately want to find dialogue with, these are the same people that support this invasion according to the Israeli polls and close to unanimously want to expand the invasion. The whole nation supports their criminal invasion, thus making the whole nation criminals. GET IT?

Tjex,
Are you really as stupid as you sound, or do you just run propaganda for the Israeli's? Huh?

You fool, you need to understand that HA comes from the Shia community in Lebanon, and seeing as how the Shia make up over 40% of the population (and by all accounts are actually a majority), then that makes HA a representative of the majority of Lebanese citizens, thus making it more Lebanese than any of you Christian traitors that are so willing to sell out the country so you can be the next Israeli shoe polishers.

HA is made up of Lebanese members, get it, Lebanese, again I say Lebanese members, and those members come from the majority section of the country, so guess that makes them more legitimate than you.

We support HA precisely because they are simply Lebanese, and they have arms suppliers who are Iran and Syria which is bascially the same situation as Israeli who is funded and supplied by America.

So you Christian idiot, Israeli is attacking and killing your people with the same money and weaponry that your new masters in America provide it, must make you feel silly, what with you supporting the bombing of your own country.

Ami Grossman said...

Tony,

The whole Israeli nation supports the "invasion" , because all Israelis understand that Israel was attacked without any reason on its own land, by HZA. I think that also most Lebanese know this simple fact.
Noone wants to invade your country. If HZA lets Israel to live in peace, the people of Lebanon will live in peace. Obviously, HZA is afraid of this scenario, because then it will NOT have any excuse of being the only armed militia in Lebanon.
Israel withdrew from Lebanon 6 yeas ago! Since then HZA hasn't stopped its endless provocations: Kidnapping soldiers, sniping at them, sending rockets at Israeli civil towns. Israel made every effort not to retaliate, until the recent conflict.
Leave us alone, and let both people live in peace!

Poul said...

and the funny part, if you only were able to get over all those imaginery self inflicted grievances, israel would forget that you even exist. as it would gladly forget that you exist 6 decades ago.

it's the same cycle - first you attack israel, then get beaten up badly, then cry about "atrocities", then attack israel again.

the definition of "idiot" is one who repeats the same actions but hopes for a different outcome. that's exactly what you're doing.

don't you see that it is not imaginery "atrocities", but your own obsession with israel that continues to bring destruction on your people?

israel is not going anywhere and is not going to tolerate being attacked. only you people can break the cycle that you perpetuate. and you should harry up, because one day israel will get fed up and go genocidal on you.

Ami Grossman said...

The 1701 resolution accepted by all the security council memeber , and also by Israel and Lebanon, was very clear:

In south Lebanon, there will be no armed forces except for the Lebanese army and Unifil.

Now, only 3 days since the ceasefire, and HZA already announced that it refuses to disarm itself, even in the south.

Now, this is NOT only an internal Lebanese issue. This was an important condition for the ceasefire, and HZA statement is a clear violation of the resolution!

Israel was often asked why it didn't try negotiations first. Well, here is the answer: What's the point of talking , if the other side doesn't keep its word?

And another question to the Lebanese guys:

Why is your prime minister so weak? Why (except for crying -( ) he doesn't do anything? If the majority of the Lebanese wants to live in peace in a free democratic Lebanon, then the minority must accept the majority will. That's how democracy works. Why does the Lebanese government have to accept the conditions of 15 seats party, knowing that these terms are likely to drag Lebanon (and Israel) into another bloody round?
Is he afraid that he'll end like Hariri?

waiting for your comments...

Ami

GeorgeBest said...

Ami, the resolution says Lebanese government forces and UNIFIL.

Hezbollah is a legitimate part of the Lebanese government. Before Israel's disasterous defeat Hezbollah had support from 40% of the government, now 87% of the public support Hezbollah's heroic resistance against Israeli aggression. That wording was carefully chosen so that Hezbollah, Lebanon's only effective defense against Zionist expansion could remain in place.

Thank you Israel for teaching the world how to hate Jews again.

Muxecoid said...

That's it. USA and France declared that lebanese government is responsible for Hizbullah's denial to lay down weapons.

And humanists who call the most dovish government in history of Israel "brutal" and "needlessly violent" make us think, that, whatever we do, we will be called "brutal" anyway so it does not matter how many enemy civilians we kill.

Ami Grossman said...

Georgebest,

Nice try to play with the words...
But:
A 'Lebanese government forces ' is a force which get its orders from the government,namely the prime minister. NOT from 2 HZA minister. That's how democrary works. A single army which obeys to the government. Not every minister having its private army.

Nasrullah didn't advice Senyora before he swept Lebanon into this war. (If he did took someone's advice, it was his masters in Iran & Syria)

How do you know that 87% support HZA? I doubt it...

Maybe you can explain what is so "heroic" about taking Lebanon , which lived in peace and was beginning to prosper, to a war? A war that ended with 1200 dead people and a huge destruction? There was no threat of 'zionist expansion' to Lebanon. While Israel does have a territorial disagreement with the Palestinians and with Syria, Israel certainly does NOT want Lebanon land. So the threat is only in your head.

Al said...

Ami Grossman said...

Amy you talk about the failed implemented resolution. 425 israel took 18 years to implement, and they didnt implement unless they were pressured by resistance.

http://www.middleeastnews.com/unresolutionslist.html

check this one for the hundreds of the disrespected resolutions, so please dont brag about UN

Ami Grossman said...

Al,

The point is not that Lebanon violates UN resolution. It's true that Israel did not always adhere to all UN decisions. It's quite obvious why: most of the UN members are hostile to Israel . Everyone knows that the Arab-Muslim automatic majority can pass almost any decision there. If UN decides that Israel should not exist, do you expect that Israel will shut itself down?

The point is different: You have to follow agreements that you signed. Israel tries to do it. Maybe not 100%, but usually Israeli violations come after the Arab violations.

Ami Grossman said...

Al,

I also looked at the link you posted. Regarding 425 and "Shebaa Farms": Israel withdrew to the line marked by the UN. In other words, according to the UN, the "Shebaa Farms" are NOT part of Lebanon, and Israel was NOT occupying any part of Lebanon.
If you don't agree, send your complaints to the UN, not to Israel, which fullfiled this resolution completely.

And you know that Shebba is only an excuse. If this was the real issue, it could have been solved throught negotiation long time ago.

MKALI said...

Nasrallah 's victory:

Israel - 2000 dead
lebanon - 1000
Hezbollah - 0 !!!!?

MKALI said...

Israel - 200 dead
lebanon - 1000
Hezbollah - 0 !!!!?

Fearless said...

Guess Who’s Coming to Iftar
A meal to remember with Hezbollah

By MICHAEL J. TOTTEN
Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 12:00 am

Photos by Daniel Pepper
BEIRUT — Syrian occupation troops have withdrawn from Lebanon, but the country has not yet regained its full sovereignty. The radical Shiite Hezbollah militia still controls its own territory in the suburbs south of Beirut and along the border with Israel. The Islamic Republic of Iran props it up with military and financial support, and it is arguably more powerful than the Lebanese army. It ranks high enough on Lebanon’s list of problems that last year the United Nations Security Council passed Resolution 1559 mandating not only the evacuation of Syrian troops but the “disbanding and disarmament” of all militias, of which Hezbollah is by far the largest. Hezbollah’s Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah recently said it will “cut off any hand that reaches out to our weapons” and “fight them like the martyrs of Karbala.”

Now that the international community is ratcheting up its pressure on Hezbollah, I went down to its militarily held state-within-a-state in the suburbs south of Beirut to see what the group is up to. Hezbollah invited me to an iftar — the first meal of the day just after sunset during the month of Ramadan — where Nasrallah was scheduled to speak.

I expected a warm reception. In October Hezbollah’s South Lebanon Commander Sheikh Nabil Qaouk said the militia wants to build strong relations with American journalists and academics. Yet its attempt to make a good impression on me failed spectacularly.

Thursday night’s iftar — this one was only for women and journalists — was held outside Hezbollah’s territory across the street from the Marriott Hotel. The area was controlled, if that is the word, by the Lebanese government.

Dozens of people, nearly all of them women, walked up a flight of stairs toward a double set of doors. Most wore an enveloping black abaya or a head scarf over their hair.

There were two separate entrances, one for women, the other for journalists and VIPs. A gaggle of Hezbollah security agents manned the doors. Several sat behind a long table. This, apparently, was where I was supposed to check in.

I showed my passport and press credentials to the man who looked like he was in charge. He stuffed them in his briefcase.

“Which hotel are you staying at?” he said.

I didn’t like the idea of telling Hezbollah where they could find me. Fairly or not, they are listed by the U.S. government as a terrorist organization. But I answered his question. I didn’t tell him I planned to move into an apartment two days later.

A security agent stepped behind me as I scribbled in my notebook while I waited. He craned his neck and tried to read over my shoulder. I frowned at him and abruptly turned so he could not read what I was writing.

I hadn’t noticed, but a military band was assembling behind me. The drummer banged once on his drum like a rifle shot. I jumped in my seat. A Hezbollah security agent who looked distinctly Iranian laughed not with me but at me.





More journalists showed up and were allowed to enter the building with minimal hassle. What was their problem with me? My passport and press ID were stuffed into the briefcase and that was that. They were making me wait for no apparent reason at all.

“What is the problem?” I said. “Why can’t I go in?”

“Just five more minutes, please,” the head of security said. Five more minutes for what? I was invited and I had credentials.

My first meeting with Hezbollah a few days earlier had gone much more smoothly.

I liked Hussein Naboulsi, the media relations liaison, the moment I had met him in the center of Hezbollah’s stronghold in Dahye south of Beirut. His firm handshake, his exuberant warmth, and his permanent grin had put me right at ease with the Party of God.

“I used to live in New York,” he said. That explained his terrific English.

“Really?” I said. “Did you like it?”

He looked at me as though I had asked if he liked rotten cheese.

“You must have lived there in the ’80s,” I said.

“Yes,” he said. “It is better now, I know. I have heard about your Giuliani.”

“What do you think about the media in the United States?” I asked him. Hezbollah routinely denounces the American media as “Zionist.”

“I don’t like CNN as much as I used to,” he said. “Just look at Larry King. We need someone more fresh.”

“Have you caught an episode of The Daily Show With Jon Stewart?” I said.

He shook his head no as if he had never heard of it.

“That’s what the kids are watching these days,” I said.

Then he broke the bad news. Hezbollah was more or less closed. I was not allowed to visit Hezbollah’s schools, summer camps or hospitals. None of Hezbollah’s fighters on the Israeli border had permission to speak to me.

“We can’t give you a guide or a tour,” he said. “But you can walk around and take a look by yourself. Just don’t take any pictures.”

“What’s the problem?” I said. Wasn’t Hezbollah supposed to be reaching out?

“I was given a security directive a few weeks ago,” Hussein said. “I am sorry, but I have to obey it.”

Later Hussein did invite me to the iftar. Yet now, days later, there I was outside the iftar hall, prevented by security from going inside Hezbollah’s one open event.

I whipped out my cell phone and dialed Hussein. Perhaps he could get me in faster. The instant the head of security saw my phone he said, “Okay, you can go in now.”

Thousands of conservatively dressed women were being seated at rows of tables in front of me. No one bothered to tell me where to go or what to do. So I walked toward the tables.

“No!” one of the security agents said. I wasn’t allowed to go anywhere. I was only allowed to stand in this exact spot, which was nowhere in particular. Not three feet over there, but right here.

After I stood there like a dork for several minutes, more security guys finally led me to a small walled-off area where I could sit and eat. This was the “press room.” I could not see any of the thousands of women, nor could I see the pulpit where Nasrallah was going to speak. Of course the journalists, who were almost all men, were kept away from the women. This was Hezbollah.

“Sit over there,” an agent said and pointed to a table away from where other, mostly male, journalists sat.

I don’t like taking orders. “No,” I said. “I am going to sit with other people.”

The man sitting next to me introduced himself as a Lebanese journalist named John.

“Where are you from?” he asked me.

“United States,” I said.

“Ooh,” he said. “Don’t tell them that.”

“They already know,” I said. You can’t just walk into a Hezbollah event without being vetted.

I thought I had an idea what Lebanon would feel like if these guys ruled it. It would be a micromanaging Daddy State, the very opposite of what it is now. But I had no idea. Not yet.

Now that Lebanon is out from underneath Syria’s occupation it doesn’t look or feel anything like a police state. It’s more or less civilized anarchy here. Peter Grimsditch, managing editor of Beirut’s English-language Daily Star newspaper, told me he hasn’t been to any country in the world where he feels the power of the state bearing down on him less. Not even traffic laws are enforced here. I’m not sure traffic laws even exist.



“Party of God” flags with
portraits of a “martyr”


Hezbollah's stronghold is different.

While only two and a half miles from downtown Beirut, it is like another country.

The Lebanese army, which patrols the rest of Lebanon, is not allowed to set foot in it. Modern 1970s buildings, utterly bereft of beauty, are practically piled right on top of each other. Laundry lines slash across the façades. Filthy striped balcony curtains blow like ship sails in the wind. Posters of “martyrs” killed in battle with Israel line the streets, as do portraits of Iran’s dead tyrant Ayatollah Khomeini. This is not where you want to spend your next holiday.

I asked a Lebanese man who used to live there what would happen if he walked into the street and shouted, “I hate Hezbollah!”

“I’d get my ass kicked,” he said. “No one would do that.”

I sat at a set table draped with a clean white cloth. Yellow chicken, fatty beef, brown and white rice, hummus, yogurt and vinaigrette salads were spread out in front of me. There was plenty of bottled water to go around. The food didn’t look great, but it looked okay. (And it was.) I smiled when it occurred to me that my meal was paid for by the Islamic Republic of Iran. It was about time they did something for residents of the Great Satan.

Suddenly a muezzin screamed in Arabic over the loud speakers. It was a thunderous call to prayer, and it was real screaming. I have heard the call to prayer hundreds of times in Beirut, but I never heard anything like this. It was electrifying and dramatic and it gave me a thrilling shot of adrenaline.

Ominous military music threatened to blow out the speakers. Then the sound system switched, briefly, to music from Star Wars. It switched, briefly again, to the soundtrack from The Terminator. Someone, perhaps the same muezzin, screamed anti-Israeli incitement over the music. You didn’t have to be fluent in Arabic to figure out what that was about.

After dinner a security agent summoned all the journalists to the women’s side of the wall. A small press area was roped off a hundred feet in front of the pulpit.

Secretary General Nasrallah emerged to a standing ovation. Then he droned on for an hour, so softly I could hardly hear a word over the post-dinner chitchat. Perhaps these women didn’t show up to hear him at all. Maybe they just wanted free food.

I sat and passively perused the “resistance” posters on the concrete pillars and walls. Scenes of explosions, gunmen and mayhem were plastered up everywhere. Just over my head was a photo of a young boy clenching his fingers around a bloody rock.

Slowly, the audience began filing out before Nasrallah was finished. He wasn’t so much a blowhard as a bore. Even his “base,” at least the female half of it, didn’t think he was worth sticking around for.

Soon the hall was almost half empty. Maybe Nasrallah realized he had to get to the point. Perhaps it was scripted this way. Either way, he suddenly started to scream.

Israel this!

Israel that!


A subdued Hassan Nasrallah,
who spoke too long


Oh, snore. I didn’t want to be rude, but I could no longer physically stop myself from rolling my eyes.

Then a belligerent fat man grabbed my photographer colleague.

“Come with me!” he said and led Dan away with camera in hand. I followed.

“What’s going on?” I said.

“We need to speak with him,” he said, referring to Dan.

“Excuse me,” I said. “I need to know what the problem is here.”

“You will not speak unless you are spoken to,” Fat Man said.

He led both of us to a table at a security checkpoint just inside the entrance. Four security agents followed and sat us down in chairs. Two stood behind us. Two sat opposite us at the table. Fat Man tried to look at the pictures on Dan’s digital camera but had trouble figuring out how.

This guy would look like a bully even in a photograph. He had white skin, a trimmed beard, small black eyes and short-cropped hair around a bald spot. A permafrown rippled across his forehead.

“We will conduct our investigation,” he said. “When we complete our investigation we will tell you what you need to do.”

“What we need to do?” I said.

“What you need to do,” Fat Man said. “Give me your passport,” he said to Dan. Dan reluctantly handed it over. Fat Man’s older, bespectacled sidekick copied Dan’s passport and press ID information by hand.

I fished my cell phone out of my pocket. Once again, it was time to call Hussein Naboulsi.

“Do not call anybody!” Fat Man said. It was no use anyway. My cell phone wasn’t getting any reception.

The security agents darkly discussed the situation, whatever it was, among themselves in Arabic. Fat Man boiled as he failed to figure out how to operate the camera.

“Where do you come from!” he said to Dan.

“What is your first name!”

“What is your family name!” He took particular interest in — and vehemently objected to — Dan’s possibly ethnic middle name, which he thought was Dan’s last name. “Is that your family name?”

At last we were getting down to brass tacks. Hezbollah thinks it knows how to spot Jewish names. It knew all the journalists’ names before letting them in the door. Perhaps that explained the long delay at the entrance to the event: Dan was with me.

“What is your religion!” This was not an investigation. It was an inquisition.

“Is this your first time in Lebanon!”

“Where in Lebanon do you live? Where exactly do you live?”

Two Western journalists, a man and a woman, stopped by the table where we were being detained. Fat Man’s bespectacled sidekick took the woman’s video camera and rewound the tape. He sat there and reviewed every minute of footage of Nasrallah’s speech in real time on the view screen. Lord only knows what he was looking for. The paranoia in the room was palpable. He caught me staring and flashed me a menacing look.

Hussein Naboulsi arrived, all handshakes and smiles as usual. I never thought I would feel relieved to see a member of Hezbollah, but I was glad to see him.

“Hussein!” I said. “It is so good to see you. Will you please tell us what’s going on?”

“I don’t know yet,” he said, “but I will take care of it.”

Hussein happily spoke to Fat Man in Arabic. Fat Man glowered and growled.

I took Hussein aside. “That man is rude, hostile and belligerent,” I said. Hussein seemed surprised that I would say this.

“He is the security chief,” Hussein said. “He is in charge of everyone here. I am sorry about this. I am on your side.”

Hussein, the security chief and a handful of agents took Dan’s camera and went to a room in the back. They stayed there for 20 minutes. When they finally came out and handed Dan back his camera, almost 50 pictures had been deleted from the memory card. But they said we could go.

I wondered if Hezbollah was playing a game of good cop/bad cop. Perhaps Hussein was good at his job as an artificially friendly face of Hezbollah. Tentatively, almost reluctantly, I decided he was a genuinely nice person.

I was wrong.


Two days after the Iftar, Hussein Naboulsi called me on my cell phone and screamed at me.

“You are a liar!”

“What?” I said, shocked to hear Hezbollah’s “friendly” media liaison in a rage.

“I can’t believe it. You lie about Hezbollah!”

“Slow down,” I said. “What are you talking about?”

“I saw your Web site.” He meant my blog. “You are writing against the Party!”

Welcome to politics, Hussein. This is what democracy looks like.

“What did I say against Hezbollah?”

“You write things that are not true!”

“What on earth did I write that isn’t true?”

“I am looking at your Web site right now.” He quoted my own words back at me. “You wrote: ‘The goons picked me up at my hotel. They stuffed me in the back of the car, blindfolded me, drove me around in circles, then took me (I think) into the mountains to a safe house to talk to the sheik.’”

“Oh, for God’s sake,” I said. “That was a joke.” I had forgotten I ever even wrote it. “I was making fun of Americans who thought you were going to kidnap me.”

A bit of context is in order.

Several people I know really were worried that I would be kidnapped or worse if I met with Hezbollah. One said I would be lucky to escape with my life. So after I met Hussein, who at the time was perfectly pleasant, I posted an update on the blog saying I met Hezbollah and that nothing bad happened. And I started by gently ribbing and playing into their overblown fears.

“Did you read the next sentence?” I asked Hussein. “In the very next sentence I wrote ‘Actually, that’s not what happened at all.’”

“I read everything!” he said.

“Then you know it was a joke. I said it was a joke. I also said that meeting Hezbollah was a pleasant experience. That was the truth, and that’s what I wrote. How can you accuse me of lying?”

“You are propagandizing against us!”

“Stop yelling at me,” I said.

“You insulted Hezbollah!”

“Actually, I insulted Americans who know nothing about Hezbollah. Can’t you read?”

“Who do you think we are? We know who you are, we read everything you write, and we know where you live.”

We know where you live. He threatened me with physical violence. And for what? For making fun of Americans on a blog.

The funny thing is Hezbollah did not know where I lived. Two hours before Hussein called me I had moved out of my hotel and into an apartment. The previous tenant hadn’t even left yet, and she witnessed Hezbollah’s threatening phone call. Hussein screamed so loudly into the phone she could hear him.

Two days later I called him back. He nervously denied that he ever threatened me.

“I did not say we know where you live.”

“Don’t lie to me. I know what you said.”

When Hezbollah says “We know where you live,” it makes an impression that is hard to forget. Hezbollah, after all, famously kidnapped American journalist Terry Anderson in 1985 and held him for more than six years. It also kidnapped British journalist John McCarthy, Colorado State University Professor Tom Sutherland and some others. The U.S. accused Hezbollah of killing 241 Marines and sailors with a truck bomb that destroyed the Marines barracks in Beirut in 1983, although technically that was an act of guerrilla warfare rather than terrorism.

“I meant we know who you are.” He sounded anything but convincing.

“You said you know where I live.”

“I did not say that. I did not say that. If I did say that, I was just stressed out.”

He didn’t know what he said.

“If I said that, yes, it would have been a threat,” he added. At least he didn’t try to say “We know where you live” meant he wanted to send me a Christmas card.

“Honest to God,” he said, “it is against our principles to threaten people.”

But it isn’t. He had threatened me just two days before. Hassan Nasrallah recently said “Death to America was, is and will stay our slogan.” After the invasion of Iraq, he went even further. “Death to America is not a slogan. Death to America is a policy, a strategy and a vision.” What the hell is that if it isn’t a threat?

It’s true that Hezbollah no longer harms Western civilians. If it did, it would be grouped with al Qaeda and destroyed militarily. The group’s leaders are smart enough to know that much.

But reining in the belligerence, the authoritarianism, the intolerance and the menacing — that is too much for it right now. Those things are too much a part of what Hezbollah is. Even its media-relations office, the office that is supposed to establish contacts with Westerners who might sympathize with it, the office that hired the happy-faced, seemingly friendly Hussein Naboulsi, can’t keep its mask on for long. Just the slightest nudge with your pinkie is enough to break its delicate public-relations propaganda system in half.

Hezbollah has made progress since the black years of the civil war that ended in 1990. Every armed faction behaved badly in Lebanon then. Hezbollah, like most Lebanese, has mellowed out and matured during peace time. That’s something.

But it isn’t enough.

Its weapons are an affront to Lebanon’s sovereignty. Its territory looks and feels like a police state, more so than even some police states I’ve visited. When it isn’t in its territory it carries its own portable authoritarian apparatus. It keeps its country in a low-level state of hot war with Israel. It still threatens and bullies Americans. Its belligerence, in my experience, appears instinctive and implacable.

U.N. Resolution 1559 will remain on Lebanon’s agenda until this is resolved.


Michael J. Totten, based in Beirut, blogs at www.michaeltotten.com. His work has also appeared in The Wall Street Journal, The Daily Star and Tech Central Station.

Fearless said...

Profiteurs de guerre (2)

Pour ceux qui pensent que le Hezbollah incarne la Résistance, rappelons que la Résistance française contre l'occupant allemand 1. considérait que l'Allemagne avait le droit d'exister 2. n'avait pas des missiles pointés sur Berlin 3. considérait que l'Allemagne avait le droit de vivre en paix avec la France 4. ne comptait pas et d'ailleurs n'a pas instauré une dictature religieuse bien qu'il y ait nombre de membres du clergé dans le maquis 5. n'avait aucun caractère raciste et comportait des communistes comme des "gaullistes" dans ses rangs sans discrimination.

La discrimination, voilà le problème que rencontre le Hezbollah, car il a tendance à sentir qu'on lui reproche le fait de ne représenter que les chiites. Qu'à cela ne tienne ! Sa dernière invention : Al-Akhbar (les informations, un peu comme dans Pravda). Al-Akhbar est né, vive Al-Akhbar ! Comme si la propagande directe du Hezbollah prétendant être la résistance arabe ne suffisait pas, il faut maintenant se rallier les "intellectuels", ces fameux intellectuels dont j'avais parlé à l'époque. Curieusement, qui retrouve-t-on responsable des pages Opinions du quotidien : vous l'avez deviné : Walid Cherara ! Enfin, il pourra ajouter qu'il est journaliste en plus d'être "expert en géopolitique".

Le préambule en dit long sur l'idéologie du nouveau journal :

Le journal affirmera que les Arabes et les Libanais sont en conflit avec Israël. Il sera un journal d'opposition à la politique étrangère de l'Administration américaine dans notre région et dans le monde.

Très Monde Diplomatique (où Cherara a rédigé quelques articles), très combat des opprimés, très "trouvons un bouc émissaire à tous nos malheurs, tiens ! les Etats-Unis feront l'affaire ! pourquoi ? Parce qu'ils sont riches et puissants et pas nous !".

On pourrait croire que la ligne éditoriale développée tend à prouver qu'il existe une inflexion au Liban, que des non-chiites se rallient au Hezbollah dans son juste combat : il s'agit juste de la suite de la guerre 1975-1990, où les mêmes faisaient alliance contre les mêmes. Vu d'Europe, il est étonnant de constater que des communistes laïcs font front avec des islamistes radicaux. C'est oublier que Walid Joumblatt est aussi le chef du Parti Socialiste Progressiste, et que les mots et les concepts varient grandement entre l'Europe et le Moyen-Orient.

Comme la notion de résistance.

Ergotelina said...

Lebanon for Lebanese....

May the Song of Guy Béart
be heard again...

Liban libre, libre Liban
Enfants libres, libres enfants
Et tous les martyrs
Chrétiens, musulmans
Avant de partir
Ont crié ce chant

Liban libre, libre Liban
Enfants libres, libres enfants

Toi qui nous montras
Tant d'humanité
Qui ouvris les bras
Aux déshérités

Liban libre, libre Liban

Si ton rivage fraternel
À Dieu ne plaise allait mourir
Je ne crois pas que l'arc-en-ciel
Sur Terre pourra revenir
Pour qu'un beau jour le monde entier
Ne vive pas dans la terreur
Je ne dois jamais oublier
Le petit Liban au grand cœur
Qui offrit l'hospitalité
À tous les peuples poursuivis
De l'eau vive aux persécutés de la vie

Liban libre, libre Liban
Enfants libres, libres enfants

Libres sur la mercredi
Libres sur les routes
Dans les cœurs ouverts
Et vivre à Beyrouth
Liban libre, libre Liban



Liban libre, libre Liban
Enfants libres, libres enfants

Tes montagnes pures
On les a salies
Avec les blessures
De l'argent folie
Liban libre, libre Liban

Avec la drogue; avec les armes
Au lieu des fruits de tes vallées
On fait de l'or on fait des larmes
On fait du sang avec du lait
On s'est même payé la corde
La corde pour être pendu
Payé pour la miséricorde
Et payé pour être vendu
Payé pour devenir esclave
Payé pour être massacré
Payé pour vivre dans les caves
Enterré

Liban libre, libre Liban
Ton chant vibre, vibre ton chant

Vibre dans nos cœurs
Vibre dans nos corps
Pour que le bonheur
Nous survive encore
Liban libre, libre Liban

(passage arabe)

Que tous tes enfants
Avec l'harmonie
Du ciel et du temps
Retrouvent leur nid
Liban libre, libre Liban

Levons le verre de l'espérance
Le verre du cèdre du Liban
Le gland du lait de la naissance
Le rouge du sang des vivants
Levons le verre de l'espérance
Ensemble partout mieux qu'avant
Réunis pour la renaissance
Du monde en paix pour les enfants
Liban libre, libre Liban



Guy Béart et les enfants libres

Chris from lebanon said...

To all Hezbollah supporters,

Your so called resistance is a symptom of your own personal unbalanced personality which is filled with hatred, frustrations and despise.

It is your gender that prevents ordinary people and peace from prevailing in his world.

As long as you entertain those dark feelings and try to justify them by making up all kind of stories, like that of resistance, then there will be wars in this world and there will good against evil.

Question: The resistance is resisting against who and what?
Answer: A peice of forgotten land for ages and the exchange of a bunch of criminals.

That is the resistance. Well we lebanese, i mean the real lebanese not the iranian-lebanese nor syrian-lebanese, are fed up of your hatred and your crave for vengence and blood hunting. Lebanon will resist you and will vanquish you because we want our democratic country back and we will make sure of that.

Tjex said...

Tony,

You are quick to anger, there is no need to insult.

If you can't understand that dialogue is the way to peace then there is no hope for you or people like you. I can only hope you're a minority in Lebanon. If we can make Israelies understand us, then there is a chance for peace. Change has to happen on both sides.

How is talking to the other side is being a trator? I'm done with the war, it's pointless and sickening. You seem to feed on death and distruction. I'd rather talk and hopefully make people understand us than spread hate and violence.

As for my religion, does it matter what I am? You are just guessing. Just because HZA is Shia doesn't mean they represent all of the Lebanese Shia's. HZA does more than just get weapons from Syria and Iran, they get their orders from those countries. I'm not saying we should get rid of HZA. On the contrary, they have done so much for the South!! I'm saying they should get rid of their arms in the near future, make it part of the deal to get back our prisoners and meet the other demands.

Random Ranter said...

The Jews are not the problem and we all know it. The problem is the racist and militant estremist organization called Hezbollah. If you ever want to see your country again, get rid of them!

http://www.randumrant.blogspot.com

Random Ranter said...

Can you imagine if there was an extremist militant party operating in Canada with the intent of destroying the US off the map? ridiculous. Canadians would work WITH the Americans to get rid of them. Come on you moderate lebanese, work WITH Israel to destroy Hezbollah.

Al said...

chris .... I think you should say chris from israel with this langauge.
Do you think that HA is a different gender or a different race?
Do you really think that they are dum?
do you really believe all that israel is an innocent country?
What i tell you is that Israel always lured lebanese christians with treats, but they always sold them to syria. meaning sold the + to syria. They left out Jaaja to go to jail, Aoun to run away to france, Lahd to flee to israel, now were was israel to protect you.

I definitly understand your point of view when you say israel and syria are the same since either are different relegions and that you dont care about them. You may prefer israel because they are seamingly more civilized and richer.
The question is do you feel closer to israelis than other lebanese? I would like to know...

random ranter............
I dont know if you are lebanese or not, i dont think you are because lebanese people dont speak like that. the definitions of militancy and extremesm where set forth by the Zionest and American Media. Dont fall into these cracks. i dont mean to partonize you but, you need not send slurs across the net to voice your frustration, next time vote for people who you believe in.
rahter than callling your country men terrorists.
again dont fall into these cracks

to Ami Grossman,
I would like to know which legion of the Massad you belong to, or are you an ashkanzi jew, that thinks you are superior to other jews.

Can you please tell me why did you send the flasha to the front line (Somalian jews) can you please tell me why is your own people seperated into races.

I think that the hate against Ameer Perez, is based on the fact he is an easter jew, and he has mustache. Until when do you think israel shall maintain racist rules in governance.
If you are svardic, tell me when do you think you shall be accepted in the white people's circles. white jews that it

Random Ranter said...

Hey al,

No, Im not lebanese but the picture is very clear and it is obvious to everyone, with the exception of the lebanese, what needs to be done. Yes, Hezbollah is an extremist militant organization. Stop denying the truth. You cannot make up your own version of the facts. They have stated as a goal to destroy your neighbor, Israel. Why do you allow that to occur? That is not the road to peace and you need to stand up for yourselves and to Hezbollah and work with anyone who wants to live in peace. As far as I can see, that is clearly not the goal of Hezbollah.

Al said...

tjex,
i have doubts that person is even lebanese. I Agree with you, the langauge of labeling some one a traitor does not help any one. I agree with you 100% even if that guy is lebanese I would say definitly he is not shi3a, because as you know all shi3a positions and leaders are open to dialogue. It was berri who proposed the round table, it was berri who brought hassan nasralla and the rest face to face, rather than with guns.

this country that i love was created arbitrarly by france. they put sectarian rules, but they didnt think that the demographic change will affect it. And I admit that some muslim factions like not to have any christians in lebanon. But Shi3a say wide and in the open we dont want a lebanon without christians. They have been in these hills for ages, the shi3a have been in the amel area (south) for ages too.

Historically / and + never fought, (+ => christians, / = Shi3a) the fight was between the druze and the +.

Now we have a problem, 1) identity, 2) Allgenance 3) prosperity

if we decide on these problems we should be ok.

1) many lebanese people say that they are not arabs, some lebanese people want to insist on that, personally i dont care what we are, we are lebanese. Period, now we are here we deal with it

2) who do we follow KSA, Syria, Iran, israel, USA, France, we dont want to be fooled cos the media right now is concenrtating on syria and iran. some people in lebanon get their command from oussama bin laden, and some from the saudi clergy. any how, i think we should have good relationships with all, including israel as long as they give us back our land, and our prisoners.

3) division of wealth is another issue, they should eleminate sectarian divisions and encourage minority rights, meaning 5% of every institution should include + if it was muslim and vice versa, allowing civil marriage

Andrey said...

al
You are full of shit, all this supperior ashkenazi thing was invented by arabs - and only in minds of people like you it exists. Can you show me one somalian jew that died in that war ? Can you show me a brigade made of only somalian jews ? In fact, can you show me a somalian jew at all? - there is no such thing.

Andrey said...

al
It's only about your answer to ami gross.

Random Ranter said...

Al, you say "who do we follow?" Why not follow your gut instincts. Do you want peace? I am sure you do, as do I. If so, look to see where the instability is coming from. Isn't it clear that Nasrallah has decided war is better for Lebanon than peace? Taking on Hezbollah is not an easy task, I am sure but if you are truly for peace and serious about it -you MUST take them on.

Random Ranter said...

Hezbollah has blackmailed and bribed their way into the hearts and minds of the shia population in Lebanaon. Building roads, schools, etc. Great! But the trade off is that they are then making these people sacrifical lambs in their EXTREMIST pursuit to destroy Israel.

Need a surgery for your mother? sure, Hezbollah will take care of that for ya but do you mind if we put a few rockets in your backyard? Come on, see them for what they are...murderers.

Chris from lebanon said...

Al,

Who do you think you are deciding weather or not christians are to be left in lebanon or not??

We all built this country regardless of religion or race. We did good things and bad things just like any other state or people of this world.

When i refer to Hezb, i only talk about those who have foreign agendas than that of lebanon's interests. And i should add that those similar to your way of thinking, systematicly label us who don't shae Hezb views as Israeli's collaborators.

Well as far as i'm concerned, we lebanese been doing more of the same for the last 35 years, meaning sticking our nose in the arab cause and the palestenian cause, and what all that got us?...the destruction of our country 3 times already during that period.

Well enough is enough with fanatism and vengeance. We want lebanon for true lebanese not those who wants to settle god knows what score with the whole world.

In mean while, you should be a shamed calling yourself a lebanese. We don't need people like you around here. stay abroad and contemplate your frustration.

Chris from lebanon said...

Al from the 9th century,

I would realy love to know when was it the first time you heard about the chebaa farms and the prisoners exchange?

Because we here only heard of these issues a couple of months ago when Hezb was asked to join the national dialogue and to prepare to disarm.

I don't recall having anyone in my entourage, muslims and christains alike, talking about those issues prior to this war.

Well i guess many innocent lebanese had to die so we can hear about a farm, that i still don't know how to spell its name, and the recuperation of a bunch of criminals who only deserve to stay locked up for the rest of their lives.

If that what you call resistance, well then keep it man, keep it and stick it you know where because we don't need that anymore over here.

otinkyaaf said...

Slightly off topic- does anyone know what's up with the Holm-Halom forum? The site seems to be down...

Al said...

chris,

you miss understood me, i was trying to reply for a bozo who was saying christians are traitors, and i was telling him he should shut up.

my point to you is that not only HA has a forign agenda, you know the mix, i dont need to detail it. sticking our nose in the arab cause brought us no good u r right. HA made a non studied act, war happened, what do we do now. kill them all? or kick them out? i want to see your solution to it.

HA gave money to people cos the government was not there. hence they liked him. I used to hate HA, but now it a different story.

i dont know why is the ranter calling them murderurs. chris when you say "It is your gender that prevents ordinary people" i didnt say to you we dont need you in lebanon.
did you hear me say that, read your text. I didnt tell you leave, but you are. any how, this is all hard to explain in text, but we have very known porblems to deal with

Al said...

chris,

sheb3a farms may have been used as a pretext, but did you know what Bashir Jmayel said in his speach 10452, it was not 10400, because israel had taken away 52 square km in the 70s.

Jmayel had a solution supported by the US at the time, where syria didnt fit in the equation, result he was killed.

10452 includes shib3a farms and the lands of kfarshouba, i know you dont know how to spell it but you will be able to some day.

by the way do you know that israel has claims in the lebanese lands by land owned by the jews in the 1940s. they are lands in the south, currently they are on lebanese soil,

what would you say if israel asked lebanon to give them back these lands?

Al said...

andrey,

i have jewish friends, i sleep at their house, and they invite me to their barmitzvas, they actually sell israel bonds, they go on the yearly tour to israel where they encourage western investors, to put their money over there. a part of the toor includes shooting with m-16 at a day with the army.

they dont phrase the difference as such, but they say israel has changed. now you see all sorts of colors. there are the russian ghettos, morocian neighbourhoods. buttom line that division exists especialy in the jewish councils.

its definitly not one that is publicized. but why do i need to go far, israeli state is a jewish state by definition, meaning if you are arab you have not rights, even if you have an israeli passport you have are a second class citizen. its a class based racist democracy, i understand the reasons, but i disagree.

Lastly andrey and Amy Grossman, did you forget the Blood scandal, where the israelis refused to use the blood of ethiopian jews. I made the mistake earlier saying they were somalian. google it i am sure you will find a response

Chris from lebanon said...

Al,

with regards to Hezb now, when the dust will settle and all emotions are calmed down, they truely need o disarm and let the state negotiate any territorial dispute or prisoners exchange. If they realy care about lebanon and prevent further its destruction, that should be their only option.

I also found them very arrogant and inhuman when they let got the fireworks and the celebration once the cease fire was in place. How would anyone explain to the mother who lost her child or the father who lost hid wife the purpose of these celebrations?

I never shared their political aims and i never will. You are talking to a lebanese who only beleives in denocracy and freedom to all. They don't portrait thet to me.

We christains accepted back in the early 90's to redesign the constitution and to erase any reference to religion. We were and still ready to do it and that the president would be elected by the people. It was the muslims who refused it. Remember...

And please, if you want to pursue this dialogue, it would be my pleasur but don't call me Chris from Israel because i don't completely share your views. Thank you.

abou al jamejem said...

Hey al, you are not making any sense. when Bashir Joumayel made the 10452 I am sure he didn't mean Chebaa farms becuase Chebaa farms are syrians and they were with the Israelis at the time. Kfarchouba land is HA's second excuse if Israel withdraw from Chebaa farms so they can keep their arms. and beside let me ask you this, is Chebaa farms for Ha ?!!! did the governeemnt tell HA to get Chebaa farms? I dont think so. Theyare all excuses to keep their weapons so Iran and Syria can fight Israel on our land and destroy our country in the process.

Random Ranter said...

Hezbollah not only should disarm, they MUST disarm. That MUST be a precondition to letting them into any new coalition government. You must refuse them the right to put their missiles in the backyards of innocent families. This will not stop until YOU, the voices of reason in Lebanon stand up to the voices of religious extremism.
It is no time for negotiation on this point. Must be bold and courageous!

z said...

Al

Shut the f**** out I was born in Beirut to a family who was in this part of the world for thousands of years one day or I should say one night militants broke the front door beat my father and my G father broke his hip and ask to live Lebanon all because we are Jewish so pls Shut The F***** you just see what you like to see. You have Jewish friends right I just believe you my a*** stay in America and shut up don’t lecture no one you have no right

BTW I was born in the Wadi my Synagogue was destroyed now there is poster of your friend

Nasrallah

Omer (israeli) said...

hey everyone

al
"israeli state is a jewish state by definition, meaning if you are arab you have not rights"

The first sentence is correct. Israel in the declration of independence is "Damocratic and jewish". The jewish means that certain thing (like burial and weddings) are done under jewish law. The rest of the laws are based on the british law system.

Damocratic, means every citizen has equal rights. Arabs vote for parliment, pay tax, get social services etc...
Of course their is still a matter of racim (like you would have if you had jews among you).But by law they are equall. And thats that. They learn in Israeli university, goto to Israeli hospitals. And sometimes the doctor who treats you is arab.

The Pl's is a diffrent issue, they are not citizens. that is also the main problem.


About the issues of lebanon. Most Israeli would be glad to trade Shebba and three prisinors for peace. Do you really belive that the issue is 3 prisinors and some stupid small pice of land. Its not.

Its about peace and security. Israel would trade land prisinors for peace just like she did with jordan and egypt.
But point is you can't make a deal with the lebanese casue they dont control the south.
If HA militiry wing could be part of the Lebanese army, you solved that issue, and keep HA fire and tactics (they can even teach at army camps). Then you have one army under one state. That states decide on war and peace. Then Israel can make treaty with lebanon.
But do you think that HA would want any treaty with israel? No. They want to keep being aggresive even after prisinor and land exchange. HA will never promise not to be aggresive torward Israel.

Most Israeli would be glad to give land and prisinors, and all we ask for is a gaurntee we wont be attacked from lebanon border.
On a casual vote, this issue could get 70% of Israeli voters, provided the HA are contained.

This is the israeli side anyway.

Chris from lebanon said...

random ranter,

The last thing we need to do right now in lebanon is to collectively snap and ignite a civil war.

I agree with your MUST and the majority of lebanese do as well.

You will all hear us soon. This time there will be no options.

We have no choice, otherwise there will be no lebanon left to rescue.

Andrey said...

al and omer
about wedings an burial - if you are a jew it is done by jewish laws, if you are moslem it is done by moslem laws,and so on...
The Jewish state means that it is a home and protector of jews of all the world - meaning if you are a jew, you have the right to become citizen. Protector, means of all the jews in the world (it wasn't meant to be needing constant protection for itself).
Arabs have no rights ? I dare you to give me an example. You should know that there are druz,beduins, cherkes, muslim arabs in IDF.
And about neighbourhoods: there were waves of aliah in different years, with people coming and seteling together. Neighbourhood is being build, people come and settle in it - thats it. Israel is not different in that way, than any other country.

Random Ranter said...

Chris -

I agree. No one wants a civil war but it may be the only way to put Hezbollah out of business. AND, as far as I can see the whole problem is Hezbollah.

It really is a time for decisive action and I am very afraid that if you don't get your heads out of the sand, the only one to act decisively and gain more power will be Nasrallah. If that happens, you can kiss Lebanon goodbye forever.

Chris from lebanon said...

random ranter

We lebanese know that the world is watching.

The good news: we have the backing of the US and europe to disarm Hezb while syria has no control over our government.

The bad new: Iran is craving for blood if it is not considered a major player by the US. Hezb takes its orders from them.

As we all say here, now is the real battle starting.
And lebanon, this tiny small peaceful country, will be the battle ground; politicaly or militarily.

Chris from lebanon said...

We think that the key battle front on fanatism and terrorism is now in lebanon not irak, as the US confirmed it this week.

Everyone is holding his breath in lebanon and the next 10 days are crucial.

Random Ranter said...

Chris -

My heart and prayers are with you and all lebanese who just want to live their lives w/o fear. Unlike those in Hezbollah, I pray to a peaceful God.

barroon said...

http://norskisraelsenter.no/engl/antis/2006-08-08-swc-gaarder.php#garder-artic

GSH - Observer said...

omer;

about the equal rights issue in ISrael:
would you think that one day you'll have a Druze -per example - PM or Minister of deffence ?

Al said...

Omer,

i think we have a deal then, just to let every one know, average person does not understand politics.
Example: Israel wants to trade the soldiers, but after it had lebanese people pay for their support,
HA want to lay their arms, but they wont declare it now, this is politics. How you win the world is not how you fight, its how you negotiation.
Israelis are great at negotiation, but guess what so is HA. Egyptians and

I believe that for the security of Israel and the lebanese that HA should lay their arms once the land and the prisoners are back.
However, to give out the arms before that's happened no way hose.

For those who read history, after every war, there are deals, and this is a great time for making deals because people on both sides are willing to agree.

Remmeber what can not be taken by war can be taken by peace.... Israel knows, the west knows, Not all lebanese know it :-)
keep smiling

For the lebanese people, let the Ha do the negotiation, and once they agree with israel, i will be the first person who will block them in the parliament in the votes...

Before that happens, I suggest to all that dont dream if you have a gun some one will take it away, if israel can not disarm HA who can. To be logical, i will tell you that syria could, and syria will disarm them when they have reached a deal with the golan hieghts.

Abou......

Check the maps in the 80s, they included Sheb3a farms...... My dad was in the army we LOVED him, we believed in Jmayel as a resolve, then he served with Aoun before he became a general, we also believed in him, but unfortunately every time the US wants to make a deal with Lebaon and they dont include syria, syria ruins, it.. I mean dont think HA are stupid. HA knows syria is benefiting from the situtation. Syria makes money if lebanon was at war or in peace, either way. Israel only makes money with lebanon is in Peace,,,........

Chris,.....
I take back what i said earlier, in fact i will delete the posting.... sorry for that.....
I want to tell you one thing, the US and Europe, except for the Vatican follow their econmic interests. It may be apparent to some including shi3a and sunni that other countries care about their relegious fellows in other countries.
Western countries care about econmic interest,and they have let the Christians down many times when they made deals with syrians.

Lebnese Liona said...

TONY.2.TOME,

I have no clue what the heck you are talking about. Me lovey dovery with isreali's. Have you seen my posts, I am just about the only one who has been defending and still is defending HB.

So please before you start your accusations make sure that they are accurate!!!!!!!!

Al said...

LEBANSES LIONA

I have seen your postings, this guy some thing is wrong with him, he was bashing me, too, so really never mind

Al said...

z,

You are the biggest lier, the synagogue still stands today, when i have time i will send youthe link with from google maps......

i dont know why you want to kill a whole population for a place of worship. I mean the Israelis are building under the temple rock of Kuds, they have destroyed many mosques in the 82 and 96 and 06 agressions. We dont say kill jews, we say that we dont want israelis on our land, the fact that you can jump into discussions does not give youthe right to lie to people.

seeker said...

GSH - Observer said...
would you think that one day you'll have a Druze -per example - PM or Minister of deffence ?

Why not?
I don' expect it anywhere soon and Druze are a very small minority but they found theselves in very high positions in the army. It's all about trust.

Some jewish Israelis also vote for Muslim partys because their agenda is more socialist, although I do not see anywhere soon a all encompassing trust between us in the near to medium future.

My question is after reading some responses to Barron's article
I saw also this response
"Gaarder hits a point that goes beyond Israel: Any man, any country, that tries to survive by keeping others around him small and suppressed is doomed to destruction."
Franz Richter
Hannover, Germany

Is that how we are preceived in by our neighbours ?

Omer (israeli) said...

GSH,
Out of all the miniroties the druze in Israel are the most trusted. In practice arab and druze vote gets 5-6 seats in parliment. They are considered extreme left, and where never part of a goverment (thou they backed some leftwing goverments). Minister of defence...Hmmm, not in the near future. But they are quite a few druze who are high ranking officers in the police force and the IDF.

Omer (israeli) said...

Seeker,

"Is that how we are preceived in by our neighbours ? "

Im amazed too. Its looks like both sides sees the other as the aggressor.

z said...

Al did you see it lately or is the past 5yrs you know you are just talking from you’re a*** here is link 4 u http://www.b400.com/page001.html look at the one 2000

You are one bigot SHUT THE F*** OUT NOW and one BIGGEST LIER

seeker said...

surprise, surprise...
Well, long live the internet.

But I was also surprised that it came from a europian guy,
so this preception is far from being local misunderstanding
and it made me start thinking maybe some actions we do are preceived in that manner.
hence the question

z said...

Jump into discussions

Which Imam told this shit we building under the mosques BTW the temple rock was build on top of the Jewish temple learn history and than come back ops sry you go to Midrassa

z said...

al
Did ever Israel say the like to kill whole population? No but did Hiz ,Iran ,Syria and must Muslim country want to Inhaled Israel yes all the time. So pls don’t lie here we see who u r

Omer (israeli) said...

Z,
They are tunnels under the temple rock. You can go take a tour. Thou the caves are old, and certinly no "building" or digging is taking place.

Ami Grossman said...

GSH,

Israel will not have a Druze or Arab PM in the near future. But this is not an exception. Will Lebanon have a Druze president? Will the US have a black or Puerto-Rican president? Will Germany have a Turkish-origin Cancler?
Will France have a Moroccon president?

I think that the point is clear.

Ami

seeker said...

z,
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=133&view=item&idx=931

nonsense and propoganda that may lead to Intifada version 3.0
not worth your frustration in this website that should be Lebanses.

Random Ranter said...

How many people chatting in here support Hezbollah? If so, why? Are you afraid to stand up to them or do you honestly believe they will bring peace and stability to Lebanon, anyone?

lebnese liona?

Lebnese Liona said...

random ranter,

looks like you are lonly and need someone to talk to.

Yes I support the resistance in lebanon because its the only thing that was able to stand against isreals agression in the region.

You can say what you want , that they get their weapons from IRan and blah blah blah, and I can say Isreal got their weapons from the US and so on....

Bottom line HB is nothing but a bunch of local villagers from the south that got sick and tired of the BS that isreal had put them thru and they decided to do something about it.

Omer (israeli) said...

al said:
"I believe that for the security of Israel and the lebanese that HA should lay their arms once the land and the prisoners are back.
However, to give out the arms before that's happened no way hose"

You must understand for Israeli's HA are a bunch of murders. No more, no less. Even before the july 12 attack Nasrallah was talking about how it is his "natural" right to kill Israeli. Al-manar shows jews as scum of the earth the it is better to exteminate them = HA idea of peace. Israel never used those kind of tones.

I'm sorry 99% Israeli will not trust HA on this one. Disarm first.

Random Ranter said...

lebnase Liona -

You must stop drinking the purple kool-aid. Hezbollah are religious extremists who will stop at nothing short of the complete annihilation of Israel. They bribe the shia "local villagers" with healthcare and new schools, etc. and then put rockets in their backyards to make them "martyrs" for the cause. Real nice people you are supporting.

You will never see a peaceful Lebanon as long as Hezbollah exists. I guess you are not interested in that though.

Fearless said...

The Merry Widow or where did the donations to the Palestinians go?
Suha Arafat marries



According to rumors, Yasser Arafat's widow marries Tunisian president's brother-in-law, who was supposed to marry her sister, but chose Suha due to her large fortune


From now on say Suha al-Trablusi: Suha Arafat, widow of Yasser Arafat, secretly married Lahasn al-Trabulsi, the brother-in-law of the Tunisian president, a number of days ago, a Tunisian website reported.


As is fitting to the widow of the former Palestinian Authority chairman, this time Suha also married someone close to power. Al-Trablusi is the brother of Leila Ben Ali, who is the wife of Tunisian President Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali.



The sister and her husband gave their blessing to the marriage.



The marriage followed a wave of stubborn rumors in Tunisia, according to which al-Trabulusi planned to marry Suha's sister. However,


credible sources said that he divorced a few months ago to marry Suha and not her sister, and that one of the main reasons for the wedding is that is his interest in Suha's large fortune.



Two years ago, after Arafat's death, Suha was personally promised by Mahmoud Abbas' staff that she would receive USD 22 million a year, on the basis of an agreement Arafat himself sent his wife while on his death bed – USD 11 million to cover her lifestyle in Paris for half year.



Blackmail



Abbas and Palestinian senior figures were forced to come to a deal with Suha, after she "created facts on the ground," in accordance with French law, and prevented PA members from visiting Arafat as he was dying, or to take decisions on disconnecting the life support machine, until she received her promise. PA senior figures concluded it was worth paying her and ending the episode.



The money given to Suha comes from the "secret fortune" of the PA, managed personally by the PA president. The fortune is worth around USD four billion, and is kept in a number of bank accounts – in Tel Aviv, London, and Zurich.



Since Arafat's death, Suha refused to live in PA territory or any Arab capital other than Tunis, and enjoys close relations with the Tunisian president and his wife.



(08.16.06, 22:26)

Chas said...

Random Ranter and others,
Why on earth didn't I think of that!? I must be so stupid!
Wait a min while I wave my magic wand ...~~~~... there we go, Hezbollah has vanished! one more time ... ~~~... No more nuclear weapons! wow, this is fun! ...~~~... once more for luck, amazing! Peace everywhere!

Meanwhile, back in the real world, what ever you may think of Hez, its policies and philosophy it has to be acknowledged that their fighters fought with courage and discipline. They already had a place in Lebanese society and now because of a remarkably stupid and unecessary war, that place has been strengthened.

Let me make it clear, there simply is no possibility of removing Hez from Lebanese society ... the best that come be hoped for is that it can be incorpoated into the political system without damaging that system irrevocably.

Even to do this will take a huge effort of will from the progressive people of Lebanon. The philosophy of Hez must be opposed but the individuals who support Hez either actively or passively must be courted, respected and helped, so they have, or come to have, a vested interest in preserving the democratic system. It would be a very bad time to create or emphasis divisions within Lebanon.
(apologise for the first para, hope you guys can take a joke)

Peace

Chas

Sherri said...

Hezbullah and Hasan Nasarallah look like the closest things I see to true heroes of anybody I see around me in this world today.

They stand up against a foe much superior to themselves, and are willing to fight to the death for their cause.

They deserve honor and respect for their stance and I wish them well in their sruggle against injustice, in their fight for equal treatment for their people, and in their struggle for freedom from opression, for themselves and the Palestinians.

Sherri said...

Hey, anyone out there, if you can point out to me another modern day hero who can be looked up to and admired, please name them and tell me why they are a hero.

Are there any modern day heroes left in this world?

Chas said...

Nelson Mandela - brought justice to his people form a prison cell, without massacres, suicide bombers or missiles ... and with out threatening anhilation to the white minority.
Ghandi .. non-violent revolution personified.

Peace

Chas

Omer (israeli) said...

Martin luther king.

Sherri said...

Chas and Omer (israeli),

I agree that all of those persons were heroes, Nelson Mandela, Ghandi, and Martin Luther King. (But they are not present day heroes).

They all fought for freedom and/or peace for their countries or people and a second characteristic they share is they all were against violence.

There are people who speak out today for peace and the use of dialogue to achieve peace (versus wars and violence), like Jimmy Carter, the Pope, and Desmond Tutu in South Africa. Iran's President even speaks as if he believes such things, but I am not sure of the truth there. We have to consider that the people in Iran do not have the right to speak freely, and are punished and jailed for the slightest offenses, including speech, that opposes the government's positions. Also, we have to keep in mind that the real power in Iran is in the Ayatollah, not its President.

None of those named above are actually leaders or people fighting oppression.

Ami Grossman said...

Al Wrote:

are you an ashkanzi jew, that thinks you are superior to other jews.

Can you please tell me why did you send the flasha to the front line (Somalian jews) can you please tell me why is your own people seperated into races.

I think that the hate against Ameer Perez, is based on the fact he is an easter jew, and he has mustache. Until when do you think israel shall maintain racist rules in governance.
If you are svardic, tell me when do you think you shall be accepted in the white people's circles. white jews that it
-------------------------------------------------------------
Al, I have to disappoint you. I am neither Sepharadi nor Ashkenzai, becuase I am both. Yes, my sepharadi father got married with an Ashkenzi girl. And it is not so uncommon in Israel.
Many "white" Jews voted for Peretz, and many Sepharadi voted for Netanyahu. (Actually , probably most of his electorate is Sepharadi).
Compare Israel with Lebanon: Percent of Sepharadi voting for Ashkenazi leaders is higher then Shia Lebanese voting for Christian or Druze leaders. Do you agree?

You ask when will Sephardi be accepted. The answser is except for the PM job, all other important roles were already populated by Sepharadi jews: Minister of Defence (Mofaz, Peretz) , Foreign minister (Silvan Shalom,David Levy), Treasure minister(Shalom) , IDF chief of staff (Mofaz).
And it's not so unlikely that Peretz or Liberman (Russian origin) will become PM.

I think you should check your info sources....

Ami

Omer (israeli) said...

sherri,
Weren't fighting opression? what were they fighting? Disnyland?

Philip I said...

New post

Syrian Jingoism hits the stratosphere

Ami Grossman said...

Sherri,

Your "modern day hero" Nasarallah took Lebanon which lived in peace and was beginning to proper, and brought only death and destruction to the Lebanese people. HA did not fight Israeli occupation, because there was no Israeli occupation in Lebanon since 2000. So your heros were fighting bravely a war that they brought on themselves.

My heros are scientists that try to find cure for diseases. My heros are people that try to feed the hungry people all over the world.

But if causing self-destruction is your idea of heroism, how come that you forgot to put Saddam Husein and Bin-Laden on your list? After all they brought destruction to countries much bigger than Lebanon: Iraq and Aphganistan- so you have to envy them...

root cause said...

sherri,

your comments are absolutley laughable. i think your true calling was comedy. why don't you move to southern lebanon, i'm sure they have a burka that will fit, but don't dare speak your mind, they don't like women who talk, and speak their mind. nasrallah, a hero?!?!?! WTF?!?! lay off the drugs!! they won't help you!!

hey...if i rob a bank, and fight the police (who are a much superior foe), and am willing to die for my "cause"...will you make me a hero too?!?!? ridiculous!

you always speak of non-violence, so it is a contradiction for you to honor nasralllah...dam, do you ever read back your comments before you post them???

praying the cease-fire holds.

z said...

for Al who know all

ISRAEL AND JERUSALEM FACTS



1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE ISLAM;

2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD;

3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;

4. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 B.C. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS;

5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT;

6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;

7. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;

8. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM;

9. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;

10. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;

11. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948, WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES;

12. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGEES WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUGEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CORELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTRY NO LARGER THAN NEW JERSEY;

13. THERE ARE 22 MUSLIM COUNTRIES, NOT COUNTING PALESTINE. THERE IS ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE. ARABS STARTED ALL FIVE WARS AGAINST ISRAEL, AND LOST EVERY ONE OF THEM;

14. FATAH AND HAMAS CONSTITUTIONS STILL CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL. ISRAEL CEDED MOST OF THE WEST BANK AND ALL OF GAZA TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, AND EVEN PROVIDED IT WITH ARMS;

15. DURING THE JORDANIAN OCCUPATION, JEWISH HOLY SITES WERE VANDALIZED AND WERE OFF LIMITS TO JEWS. UNDER ISRAELI RULE, ALL MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN HOLY SITES ARE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL FAITHS;

16. OUT OF 175 UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS UP TO 1990, 97 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL; OUT OF 690 GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS, 429 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL;

18. THE U.N. WAS SILENT WHEN THE JORDANIANS DESTROYED 58 SYNAGOGUES IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM. IT REMAINED SILENT WHILE JORDAN SYSTEMATICALLY DESECRATED THE ANCIENT JEWISH CEMETERY ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, AND IT REMAINED SILENT WHEN JORDAN ENFORCED APARTHEID LAWS PREVENTING JEWS FROM ACCESSING THE TEMPLE MOUNT AND WESTERN WALL.

Chris from lebanon said...

sherri from the dark ages,

The best suitable thing for you, giving your state of mind, is to go and dig yourself a hole in some cave and decorate it with Nasrallah's pictures.

There you can contemplate your hero all day while we here in lebanon are buisy building it on hopeful and peaceful grounds with or without your hero.

We don't need either of you around. We saw the destruction and the killings your hero brought upon our heads.

So have fun in your cave while civilized people are striving peacefuly into the 21st century.

Chas said...

Sherri,
because of Hez's stated desire for the destruction of Israel, I cannot accept them as heroes, any more than I couls any orginisation that proposes or attempts "ethnic cleansing" (I hate that euphamism).

What I can say without hesitation is that the fighters, not those who were lobbing missiles at innocent civilians, but those who faced the Israeli army and fought man to man, for 34 long days without faltering, fought like heroes with real courage, tenacity and dicipline.

They as individuals have earned respect. Whether that respect extends to Nasrallah and Hez as an orginisation depends very much on how they act now.

Will they embrace peace, or will they use their strengthened position to bring conflict to their fellow Lebanese?

Peace

Chas

z said...

Chirs

Nicely said ENOUGH !!!!! we need to live together Israel will be here and Lebanon will


Enshallha

Chris from lebanon said...

sherri from the dark ages,

Nasrallah didn't stand up to anything. He was comfortably hiding in the Iranian embassy while ordinay lebanese people, brain washed by him and iran, gave thier life truely thinking they were duing for lebanon. Sad isn't it.

The proof of his careless thoughts, you should've seen the firworks and the celebrations hezb put on after the cease fire.

None of us true lebanese appreciated or shared their joy. How could we when many innocent people died from both sides of the border in the name of the so called resistance.

Resist my ass. For a forgotten piece of land and a bunch of locked up criminals; You go tell the survivors why their beloved ones have died.

Loli said...

Chris,
You cracked me up. I don't understand why people even bother and address Sherri. She reminds me of those unbalanced women who fall in love with imprisoned criminals. She'a out of touch with reality on the ground. Just ignore her.

Loli said...

Chris,
I was referring to your previous comment, the one about the cave...

Chris from lebanon said...

z

I truely hope seeing peace and prosperity between both our countes in my lifetime.

Its just that something evil is always draging us back to hell.

Just hope it will stop someday so we can look ahead not behind.

Chas said...

breif comment on Asad

Of course he praises Hez - its fighters have one thing he lacks .. courage!

Lebanon has the other thing he lacks .. A future!

Chas

Random Ranter said...

Chas -

In the real world, you must stand up to your enemies and do what needs to be done. It is clear that Hezbollah is an enemy of modern Lebanon. If you're interested in living in Afghanistan under Taliban rule than go ahead and allow Hez to run the show.

Today, the lebanese parliament voted to send troops to southern lebanon. Real troops not those heroic hezbollah fighters who hide behind women and children. What the parliament did not do was call for Hezbollah to disarm and for that you should all be very pissed off.

and, To Sherri - it's obvious you are on crack. Get some help.

Loli said...

Well said, Chas!

Random Ranter said...

Hey Chris -

that "something evil" you are referring to is Hezbollah! Can't you see that?

Everyone is beating around the bush here. Stop drinking the blood that Hez keeps feeding you. Stand up!

Chris from lebanon said...

random ranter,

Prime minister siniora just said in his speech that although he praises hezb standing against israel, he demands that hezb lay down their arms so there will only be the Lebanese army in control of the whole country.

We are waiting for hezb to respond.

That is the latest news.

Loli said...

Yeah, and you expect Nasrallah to accept, right? It's a disguized coup!

z said...

Chirs

Some years ago I remember my G father and I going every Wednesday to a movie in Hamara after the movie we had Quails I remember it just like it was yesterday oh good old time the walk way around the see next to the Casino with all the beautiful ppl going up and down and the wind coming from the see

I want to see this beautiful place again. My birth place

Chris from lebanon said...

loli,

i told you yesterday that if hezb don't comply with the government, we christians, sunnis, druze and some shia are ready to walk the whole mile if we have to so they disarm.

We have no choice. Don't listen to hezb propaganda and US news telling you that we all lebanese are behind hezb. Crap and rubbish talking.

We never supported hezb and never will. They as much as we do know that. Its just that we're hoping that some sense will come to them and disarm. If not, i'm telling you it will become very ugly. It will be he rebirth of lebanon.

We are all watching. The next 10 days are crucial.

Chris from lebanon said...

z

I truely hope you do one day.

Inshalla

Random Ranter said...

Chris -

Seniora is a fine and noble man and like all of you, he has been through hell this past month. I am encouraged by the second part of his comments but that first part is nonsense. The only reason Israel attacked was due to deliberate provocation by Hezbollah and they are only interested in doing what needs to be done - disarming Hezbollah!

Loli said...

Chris,
We don't want any more war or violence. HA must comply with the government's demand.

Chas said...

Random,
you miss my point, Lebanon is damaged, Hez has gained in support politically and emotionally amoung a significant section of the population.
A frontal assault on Hez at this moment would be dangerously counter productive and risk firther strengthening its political grip on the population it represents.
It is time to think strategically.

Salam

Chas

Chas said...

Loli,
I think Seniora has got it about right.

Chris from lebanon said...

random ranter,

We all know that the first part of his comment is playing violin or how do you put it: playing sweet music to hezb's ears.

I also disapprove of that. Real leaders back in the 70's like shamoun or gemayel didn't realy negotiate when it came to lebanon's sovereignty.

He's trying to come to peaceful resolution of the problem. But i can tell you, he is very resolute to disarm Hezb.

Random Ranter said...

Chas -

No, i get it but it is time to STAND UP! The only way you defeat a bully is to punch him in his mouth. Your only strategy right now is to take down Hezbollah before they succeed in taking Lebanon back to the stone age.

Random Ranter said...

Chris -

It is good to know he is serious and I feel that if HE fails it could be real chaos there. But, I also know about those strong leaders from the past and they did have one thing in common - Courage to do what is right! Senioria can be that kind of leader too - let's pray that he is.

Random Ranter said...

My friends - are there any plans to stage a huge anti-Hezbollah rally? If they fail to respond to Senioria's call to disarm, one should be organized!

Loli said...

Chris, this is an article for you, by Tariq Alhomayed:

http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=2&id=6020

Random Ranter said...

Loli -

superb article by Alomayed. Syria and Iran are only interested in taking down Israel and Hezbollah is their infantry.

Loli said...

Yes, on the other hand Bush declared Israel victorious. I find it ridiculous. The more propaganda, the less credible...

Random Ranter said...

Israel is not interested in destroying Iran, Syria or Lebanon. They are only interested in survival. That is a huge difference between Hezbollah and Israeal and why Hezbollah is wrong. They are more interested in destroying Israel then they are about saving Lebanon! STAND UP!

Chris from lebanon said...

Leaders of different communities are making very courageous statements.

Joumblat (druze) is calling for immediate disarmement of Hezb.

Chamoun (son of camile) just wrote an article in the daily papers about hoe urgent it is to disarm hezb.

Jaja (kataeb) is asking for the same in support of the government.

Now that the dust is coming down, one realize that those who were against hezb (majority ob lebanese) still are.

Chris from lebanon said...

Random ranter,

There are discussions of how to go about a peaceful demonstration if things don't go the right path.

It is very early to stage such an event. Emotions are still fragile. We need a couple of days...10 or 15 before we reevaluate the situation.

Loli,

Indeed a very goos article. It gives an idea about how we feel about this war.

Thanks.

Loli said...

Random ranter,

I am pro-peace, against war. There must be a diplomatic solution to HA. I understand your survival issue, especially since HA declared death to Israel, but I will never support (civil) war. Pressure must be put on Iran and Syria to achieve HA's disarmement. It will take a while, but it is bound to happen.
You saw what your war brought us. Death and destruction, and more hatred against your country.

Random Ranter said...

Chris - I understand that emotions are high but it seems obvious that everyone should be outraged at HB and should be willing to voice that outrage in public.

It may help shut Iran and Syria up and maybe they will rethink their strategy and back off.

Chris from lebanon said...

loli,

We all pray for peace.

But over here, living now in lebanon under hezb power trip and control of 1 third of the country, is like we don't have a country.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but if hezb decided under iran's orders to screw the country, there would no other choice but to do the extreme.

Otherwise, we might as well leave lebanon to them and let them fight it out with Israel. This option is a NO GO for none of us true lebanese patriots.

Loli said...

Chris,

We had a civil war and what did it bring us? Nothing but death. Surely many huge peaceful demonstrations should have an effect. No more wars!

Chris from lebanon said...

loli and random ranter,

It is sad but forging a new lebanon requires sacrifices from all its communities.

Syria brought this on us when they controled the country for 18 years, and iran is finishing the job because they want to settle the score with USA.

It is out of our hands. If they (hezb) don't disarm, it will be a bloody and ugly war....Unless you have another idea tha we don't see over here.

Loli said...

As I said before: heavy political pressure on Iran and Syria, and peaceful demonstrations like last year.

Chris from lebanon said...

loli,

At that time (civil war 1975), all of the superpowers didn't realy care about lebanon. Actualy, they thought lebanon can be handed over to the palestenians thus partialy solving their cause.

Even the CIA have stated that most lebanese christians are pro west and that their style of life would perfectly fit with that in the US and Canada. Don't you remember, they were giving visas to all christians who wanted to leave the country.

This time, LA DONNE is different. We have the necessary backing to do the job.

But don't missread me, we will try all kinds of peaceful demonstrations and rallies prior to any foolish actions. That you can be sure of.

Loli said...

Yes, I do remember. The US keeps changing positions. One day with us, one day against us. All poor politics! And we are the ones paying the price.

Wishing peace to all of us. No more blood shed.

Have to go. Good night.

Chris from lebanon said...

good night loli.

Chas said...

Loli,
Would the same factions that supported the cedar revolution still be united today? in the same numbers?
If you have such a demonstration it must be clearly pro-peace and not (directly) anti-Hezbollah.

I agree that a wedge must be put between Syria and Hez. Ridiculing Asad is a good tactic ... and so easy!

My heart truly goes out to you in these difficult days

Chas

Sherri said...

ami grossman,

Nasarallah is not responsible for the over 1000 innocent civilians Israel dropped bombs on.

Israel chose to over-react to Hezbullah's kidnapping of soldiers in Israel, by trying to ethnically cleanse Lebanon of its Shiite Muslim communities.

Israel chose to murder over 1000 innocent civilians in Lebanon (45% of them children).

Israel chose to destroy the infrastructure in Lebanon.

Let us put the blame where it lies.

On Israel. They dropped the bombs.

To be honest with you, I consider a person to be more like a hero when they can achieve peace in a conflict without violence and killing.

Unfortunately, the world today seems to be without people like that.

I see noone involved with the Middle East conflict today that fits into that category.

Random Ranter said...

Chas -

a Pro-peace rally = an anti-Hezbollah rally. Again, with the failure to acknowledge the obvious

Random Ranter said...

Sherri -

still smoking the crack?

Nasallah is directly responsible for the 1000 lost lives. Remember those rockets? he had them strategically placed in the backyards of the poor shia whom he bribed into thinking Isreal needs to be destroyed. He placed rockets near orphanages and hospitals. He murdered 1000 lebanese. He is as bad as any al qaeda terrorist. He must go.

Sherri said...

root cause,

You are obviously one of the many of the masses who have been brainwashed by Bush and his "war on terror" bs.

The Lebanon and Israeli conflict has absolutely nothing to do with a war against terrorists. Nasarallah and Hezbullah represent a political group, the Islamic Resistance, who exists to stand up and fight against the injustice and oppression of Israel against its Arab neighbors whose land they took and still unjustly hold.(Syria, Lebanon, and teh Palestinians). This conflict has been going on since 1948.

Hezbullah are freedom fighters and recognized as such all over the Arab world.

This is the truth.

Random Ranter said...

Sherri -

a political group called the Party of God and that murders its own people is hardly praise worthy. They are terrorists and they need to be stopped.

simple question - Do you think lebanon is better off with or without hezbollah?

Sherri said...

randam ranter,

Go read Amnesty International's report about war crimes and who just committed them in Lebanon.

Israel was found to have targeted civilians, targeted civilian objects (civilian infrastructure, civilian residences, civilian businesses), targeted rescue personnel, targeted United Nations personnel, used cluster bombs against civilians, used vacuum bombs against civilians, used bunker busting bombs (that contain radioaactive materials in them) against civilians,etc. All of these acts constitute war crimes. It is Israel who the United Nations just referred for investigation of their war crimes, not Hezbullah.

I saw numerous news reports about Israel's claims that Hezbullah was hiding behind civilians, all of which found no such evidence, among the rubble of the bombs and the pieces of dead children scattered by the destruction of the bombs.

Even if Hezbullah had been hiding behind every one of these tens of thousands of civilain targets Israel bombed, that would not justify Israel targeting civilians under international law and teh Geneva Convention.

The truth will not be buried.

Chas said...

Random,
there are many in Lebanon who support Hezbollah but do not want civil war, there are many who sympathise with Hezbollah, but also wish for peace. There are others who are impressed by Hezbollah's guerrilla action against Israel but do not support them politically.
At a time like this, with so much in the balance is it really wise to alienate those people when you could win them over?

Peace

Chas

Chas said...

Random,
I think you know your simple question does not have a simple answer ... if we could really do the "magic wand" thing maybe the answer would be easy, today in Lebanon it is not.

Peace,

Chas

Sherri said...

randam ranter,

You obviously are a Fox TV product and brainwashed by the Bush/Israeli ad campaign of the US.

Go out and read some media outside the US and learn what the truth really is. Watch Democracy Now. Listen to NPR. Read BBC. Read Aljazeera. Read the Amnesty International Report on the Lebanon conflict and the Palestinian humanitarian crisis.

Open your eyes to the truth.

Sherri said...

randam ranter,

I realized I did not answer your question, Would Lebanon be better off without Hezbullah? I do not think so. Hezbullah is Lebanon's only defense to Israeli aggression.

This is at least the third invasion by Israel into Lebanon. Hezbullah was created as a force to fight Israeli oppression, being formed or gaining power during the 18 year long occupation of Lebanon that began in 1982.

Doesn't Lebanon have the right to defend itself against Israel invasions? Or do you think they should just sit there quietly and die?

Chas said...

Sherri,
I sympathise with you, the Lebanese people have suffered much.

Do you really want anything to happen now which would prolong that suffering?

I know your heart is sore and that the bravery of the Hezbollah fighters did much to heal the injury to your country's pride, but is it not time, now, to put away the guns and the angry words and turn your face to the future with hope?

Peace,

Chas

Sherri said...

chas,

I am not Lebanese. I am an American. I am a Christian. My husband was born in Iran and his parents were Shiite Muslims, as is 98% of the population of Iran. My husband fought for 2 years against Iraq in the 8 year long Iran/Iraq war.

What bothers me immensely is that in the US, we are being brainwashed into believing every conflict in this world is against civilization and terrorism.

US enemies are labelled as terrorists and allies are civilization.

Everything is tied to September 11 and Bush's "global war against terrorism."

In the name of fighting this war against terrorism, the US has already started 2 wars (Afghanistan and Iraq) and been heavily involved in a third war (this current Lebanon/Israeli conflict.)

People in the US think of Hezbullah as just "terrorists", like Osama Bin Ladin, and this is just a big lie. And this is what I am responding to mostly in my posts, I think.

I greatly resent that the public in the US is buying into this terrorism lie.

How many innocent civilians have or will die in the Middle East because of Bush's war against terrorism.

According to numerous articles by Seymour Hersh and other sources, Bush intends to start a war with Iran. He intends to drop a nuclear bomb on Iran before he is out of office.

Do you think that will lead to a more peaceful world?

I really do want peace. But I think the lies and deceptions are generating hate and wars and taking us farther and farther away from peace.

I really do pray for peace.

For the over thirty days that Israel dropped bombs on civilians in Lebanon, bombs supplied by the US, I prayed for peace every day.
I felt so guilty that my country was so involved with the destruction and killing in Lebanon. The US would not support an immediate cease fire. They sent 4 or more shipments of weapons to Israel while the bombing was going on (And they are presently in the process of shipping more cluster bombs to Israel, even though they know Israel used cluster bombs on civilians in the 1982 war and the present conflict and even though they know the use on civilians constitutes war crimes). I cried every day. I hardly slept many days.

The deceptions and lies bother me.

But most of all, I still pray for peace.

Best wishes to all and peace to all, Sherri

Chas said...

Sherri,
I have some sympathy for your views - my Email is on my profile if you wish to correspond.
Thank-you, btw for a candid and fullsome reply.

Peace

Chas

Loli said...

Sherri,

I owe you an apology. I lost my patience and was rude to you. It is against who I am and I sincerely apologize. I hope you will forgive me.

Now that I read your last post, I have a better grasp of your point of view. I agree that the US has been and still is behind very dirty wars, under the cover of fighting terrorism. But to claim that Nasrallah is a hero... Please! I ask you to be fair. I have no doubt that the HA fighters put their heart and soul to fight the Israeli aggression. They gave everything they had. However, they were manipulated and taught hatred for years and years. And it's not as a consequence of a previous Israeli occupation. Leaders chose to be righteous and peaceful, or to breed a generation that is constantly seeking revenge and violence. Israelis are no angels. They inflicted so much suffering on a lot of people around them, but this doesn't excuse my fellow Lebanese to kidnap, murder, and act as if they were in a lawless country. Nasrallah maniputlated his fighters and lots of other people. He teaches his followers to hate Israel, trains them to kill innoncent Israeli civilians, pledges to annihilate the state of Israel, and refuses to comply with the legitimate Lebanese government. Where's the good faith in all that? This is not who we are are. This is not who we want to be as a nation. No matter how big his rage against Israel and its people is, there's no excuse for his behavior. Instigating so much hatred and teaching evil instead of good is unacceptable.
Criticize Bush's administration all you want, but then criticize Nasrallah too, and don't try to depict him as a hero, because he is not one. There is nothing to compare between Nasrallah and wise and peaceful men such as Mandela and Ghandi.

Loli said...

I meant to type:
And it's not ONLY as a consequence of a previous Israeli occupation. Leaders have the choice. The can to be righteous and peaceful, or breed a generation that is constantly seeking revenge and violence. True heroes are the former.

Sherri said...

loli,

I came across too strong on the hero stuff. When I disagree with something, I tend to sometimes take the other side and too strongly.

My husband keeps reminding me how fanatical Hezbullah really is, he knows because he knows how the Iranian government is and Hezbullah pattern themselves after Iran. Especially about how awful they treat women.

Did you know once this past year a group of elderly women had a peaceful demonstration in a park in Tehran and Revolutionary Guard members began attacking and beating them? This occurred in a country in which the elderly are looked up to and honored. This is all because they do not allow views inconsistent with their own.

My husband's aunt had a satellite in Tehran and she got a summons to have a meeting with the authorities about it. Satellites are not allowed.

When the earthquake occurred recently in Broujerd and Bam, the government provided little assistance to those affected. My husband's parents live in Broujerd. In the small mountain villages most affected that surround Broujerd, the houses were virtually all levelled. People were living in tents months after the earthquakes.

Yet, Iran reportedly sends 100 million dollars a year to Hezbullah. They have money for this outside group but not their own people. And the people within Iran are not really very happy about this. Remember, Iran is not even an Arab country. Why do they care about the Israeli Palestininian conflict or Lebanon?

What we see today is a power struggle between the United States and Iran and oil is in the Middle East. Neither side wants peace. Neither side is really in the right and both sides lie and decieve their populations to achieve their goals.

For those in the world who just want peace, who believe everyone (however diverse their beliefs may be) has a right to live and be left in peace to live their lives, these are not good times.

We need a man to come forward like Gandhi or Mandela to straighten up the mess we are in now.

Al said...

I left this blog for a few hours to come back and see that several of the Israeli supporters are passing on the message to lebanese christians, destroy them for us and we promis you to be friends.

Some of the people here are praising HN, and others are calling them crazy, thats not the way to talk .

Omer out of all of you, makes the most sense, but he is playing arrogant, what does it mean, 'disarm first and we will follow' the days of the 80s are gone.

one of you, made sense by saying we have to attract the HA supporters passively or actively. That makes sense

as for people who dont like praising HN, there are people who praise sharon... sharon said in his own words, attack them all over the world so my lazy jews come back to the promised land, in a note inviting world jews to unite and come back to israel.

to z, who is Mr knowledge, who goes back to pre-history to prove his theory, i dont disagree that israeli people existed, but i think there were more of them in Mecca than in current land where they live in, And if this is a great land, why did you need Belfore to promise it for you. I think the reason that Europians supported moving jews back here is that they didnt like them :-)
you integrated better than arabs in their societies in the last 60 years and hence you are much closer to the west.


loli, i am disapointed that you changed your oppenion about cheri since she is an american........ you should respect her oppenion either way
cheers and i dont mind responses.

Sherri said...

The groups in Lebanon need to come together, put aside their differences, and begin to see themselves first as Lebanese, not first as Christian, Sunni Muslims, os Shiite Muslims, and only second as Lebanese.

They need to act to do what is best for their country and the future of all of their children.

Hezbullah has served a purpose within Lebanon, with respect to defending the country from Israel.

Accept Hezbullah fighters within the Lebanese army, perhaps as a separate unit or something.

There has to be a way everyone can work together for the common good of the country.

The country can come out of this stronger and more united.

Al said...

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2006/081506AVNERY.shtml

Loli said...

al
I don't understand what you said about me changing my opinion because sherri is an American. I think you may have understood me. I've always known she was American, since her first post, but the few times I read her posts (I usually ignore them), I read one-sided opinions, always blaming the US and always praising HA, in a very black and white way, like in children fairy tales. So I kind of stopped reading her. This time, I read a more real post, and decided to respond to her, more so because I made a rude comment about her, for the first time, and felt very bad about it.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

Loli said...

Sherri,

Regarding your last post, that's what most of us have been saying all along! We need to act for Lebanon first, not Iran or some other country. We want HA to disarm and be integrated in the army. That has always been the wish of the elected government, but HA was not willing to do so.

Shirin said...

I used to believe that Hizbollah's main interest is Lebanon, but i have realized that it is not true. They don't care about Lebanese... look what happened to our beautiful country because of them, they started this war.
I hope the cease fire won't be broken by some stupid act of Hizbollah.

Peace in Lebanon!!!

Shirin
http://shirin-from-lebanon.blogspot.com/

Omer (israeli) said...

Al,
"Omer out of all of you, makes the most sense, but he is playing arrogant, what does it mean, 'disarm first and we will follow' the days of the 80s are gone"

I'm sorry you feel its arrogant to ask HA to disarm first. But the fact is that Israeli don't trust them at all. If the issue of lebanon is to be solved, it must be taken into account.

But then we can build trust. How about HA stop talking anout exteminating Israel? You can still be armed and pro-peace at the same time. If HA really wanted peace, it would show.

Sherri said...

loli,

Until Hezbullah can see that the south is protected, they will not disarm. Think about the fact that these villages in the south are largely Hezbullah families and Shiite communities. How can they leave their families and the Shiite Muslim population without protection?

I just heard, I think it was the prime minister, say on TV that Hezbullah can not be disarmed by force. But they (Hezbullah) say they are willing to discuss it later.

Let us hope and pray that the cease fire can hold with the Lebanese Army and the international troops there, that Hezbullah at least set aside their weapons for now. And that Hezbullah and the government can later reach some type of agreement to incorporate its forces somehow into the army, as a separate unit or something.

I read somewhere that the Lebanese army itself was made up of a majority of Shiite Muslims.

I get the impression that the Shiites have been in the past looked down on by the rest of the groups in Lebanon. But I have read things that have led me to believe that the bombings may have brought the people closer together. Christian groups and other groups have come forward to help homeless Shiite families. And there appears to be more a sense of unity.

Survival and peace depend upon the groups in Lebanon accepting and respecting each other and unifying.

Do you know if the solidarity march to the south is still going to occur on the 19th?

Omer (israeli) said...

Sherri,
I belive the sequence go like this.

1. Cease-fire (achived)

2. Israeli withdrawl to the blue line (not including Shebba) - in process

3. HA disarm or incopprate into the army. -- we wait and see.

4. Israel leaves Shebba. Lebanese army takes over or UN takes over till lebanon and Syria sort out the issue.

5. Permanent end to all hostilities on both sides of the border.

This seqaunce could gain much support in Israel. What do you think?

Fearless said...

Falouja II ne pas loin avec les violations de la Rés. 1701 par le Hizbullah.

09h15 - Beyrouth Un ministre libanais pro-Hezbollah annonce que le déploiement de l'armée libanaise se fera sans problème tant qu'il ne sera pas question de désarmer le Hezbollah.



10h45 - Beyrouth Le chef de la majorité parlementaire libanaise anti-syrienne Saad Hariri s'en prend au président syrien Bachar al-Assad et à son régime, l'accusant d'"infliger au Liban de nouvelles blessures, après celles subies par les bombardements israéliens".


09h15 - Beyrouth Un ministre libanais pro-Hezbollah annonce que le déploiement de l'armée libanaise se fera sans problème tant qu'il ne sera pas question de désarmer le Hezbollah.

09h15 - Beyrouth Un ministre libanais pro-Hezbollah annonce que le déploiement de l'armée libanaise se fera sans problème tant qu'il ne sera pas question de désarmer le Hezbollah.

Selon Michaël Béhé, dont on se rappelle la précision des bilans qu’il avait donnés au faîte des combats, trois jours avant les autorités israéliennes et libanaises, il y aurait eu 1′950 tués au Liban durant cette guerre sans nom. 350 victimes, au grand maximum, sont des civils qui n’avaient aucun lien avec les combats ; tous les autres faisaient partie du Hezbollah et des forces qui s’étaient jointes à lui. Sur les 750 combattants dignes de ce nom, entre 670 et 690 ont été soit éliminés par Tsahal, soit faits prisonniers. 350 lanceurs de projectiles islamistes sont également au nombre des victimes. De plus, il y aurait environ 800 blessés au sein des Fous de Dieu. Pas étonnant, au vu de ces chiffres, que les communiqués libanais ne comportent aucune mention des pertes intégristes…


Une sacrée “victoire” pour Nasrallah et ses sponsors iraniens et syriens… Les commanditaires de Téhéran n’hésitant d’ailleurs pas à critiquer ouvertement Nasrallah pour ce quasi anéantissement du Hezbollah.


Et c’est encore sans compter les dégâts en matériel militaire. La ligne Maginot, construite à coups de centaines de millions de pétrodollars perses le long de la frontière israélienne, est aux mains de l’ennemi ou entièrement dynamitée. Le Hezb a perdu 28 missiles balistiques de type Zilzal (20 selon Tsahal), sur les 30 que les ayatollahs lui avaient livrés. Tous les servants de ces engins sont soit morts soit hors de combat.


Ce qui reste à l’organisation terroriste chiite ?


– Ses leaders politiques, qui ont, pour la plupart, échappé à la chasse qui leur a été donnée par le Mossad et le Khel Avir. Ceci dit, je ne connais pas de compagnie d’assurance qui se risquerait à assurer Nasrallah sur la vie.


– Environ 2′000 Katiouchas, surtout celles de faible portée. Quelques centaines de roquettes plus lourdes et une quarantaine de Fager de moyenne portée. On considère, à la Ména, que le Hezbollah, en cas de reprise des hostilités, serait capable de faire encore usage de la moitié de ces armes.


Hormis ces maigres résultats, le Hezbollah a le mérite stratégique – c’est sans doute ce que son chef appelle une victoire stratégique – de continuer d’exister et de jouir du soutien de la majorité de la population chiite libanaise. Le Parti de Dieu n’a pas été rayé de la carte, comme le prophétisait Olmert, même s’il est devenu itinérant, après que toutes ses bases de commandement au Liban aient été pulvérisées. De plus, on ne distingue pas de forces armées présentes au Liban, qui possèderaient l’intention ou la capacité de compléter le désarmement de la milice intégriste. Ceci présente assurément le risque de la voir se réarmer à courte ou moyenne échéance.

Selon mes copains sur place , dont on se rappelle la précision des bilans qu’il avait donnés au faîte des combats, trois jours avant les autorités israéliennes et libanaises, il y aurait eu 1′950 tués au Liban durant cette guerre sans nom. 350 victimes, au grand maximum, sont des civils qui n’avaient aucun lien avec les combats ; tous les autres faisaient partie du Hezbollah et des forces qui s’étaient jointes à lui. Sur les 750 combattants dignes de ce nom, entre 670 et 690 ont été soit éliminés par Israel, soit faits prisonniers. 350 lanceurs de projectiles islamistes sont également au nombre des victimes. De plus, il y aurait environ 800 blessés au sein des Fous de Dieu. Pas étonnant, au vu de ces chiffres, que les communiqués libanais ne comportent aucune mention des pertes intégristes…


Une sacrée “victoire” pour Nasrallah et ses sponsors iraniens et syriens… Les commanditaires de Téhéran n’hésitant d’ailleurs pas à critiquer ouvertement Nasrallah pour ce quasi anéantissement du Hezbollah.


Et c’est encore sans compter les dégâts en matériel militaire. La ligne Maginot, construite à coups de centaines de millions de pétrodollars perses le long de la frontière avec Israel, est aux mains de l’ennemi ou entièrement dynamitée. Le Hezb a perdu 28 missiles balistiques de type Zilzal (20 selon mes sources), sur les 30 que les ayatollahs lui avaient livrés. Tous les servants de ces engins sont soit morts soit hors de combat.


Ce qui reste à l’organisation terroriste chiite ?


– Ses leaders politiques, qui ont, pour la plupart, échappé à la chasse qui leur a été donnée par le Mossad et l'aviation Israelienne. Ceci dit, je ne connais pas de compagnie d’assurance qui se risquerait à assurer Nasrallah sur la vie.


– Environ 2′000 Katiouchas, surtout celles de faible portée. Quelques centaines de roquettes plus lourdes et une quarantaine de Fager de moyenne portée. On considère, que le Hezbollah, en cas de reprise des hostilités, serait capable de faire encore usage de la moitié de ces armes.


Hormis ces maigres résultats, le Hezbollah a le mérite stratégique – c’est sans doute ce que son chef appelle une victoire stratégique – de continuer d’exister et de jouir du soutien de la majorité de la population chiite libanaise. Le Parti de Dieu n’a pas été encore rayé de la carte, même s’il est devenu itinérant, après que toutes ses bases de commandement au Liban aient été pulvérisées. De plus, on ne distingue pas de forces armées présentes au Liban, qui possèderaient l’intention ou la capacité de compléter le désarmement de la milice intégriste. Ceci présente assurément le risque de la voir se réarmer à courte ou moyenne échéance.

dunes said...

sherri: its nice yo know you live in illusions

read this
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NWU2M2YyNjFmZDViZmVkN2I2OGEyNjAwOWU1YzQ3ZDM=

Fearless said...

Elimination du bras droit de Nasrallah et le 10013 !
2006-08-16 08:19.

Hezbollah |


Vous souvenez-vous des 20 tonnes de bombes qu’Israël a lancées sur le faubourg sud de Beyrouth juste quelques heures avant le cessez-le-feu ? Onze bâtiments de plusieurs étages, vides de population civile, ont été totalement détruits.



Le renseignement militaire a informé aujourd’hui que le Commandant des « Forces Spéciales » du Hezbollah, Sajad Dawir, a été éliminé : il était le responsable directe de l’enlèvement des réservistes israéliens, le 12 Juillet. Et de toutes les attaques contre Israël depuis le retrait israélien du Liban Sud. Il rejoint ainsi son subordonné Jihad Atya, le responsable de l'enlèvement par le Hezbollah de 3 soldats en octobre 2000, tué au Sud Liban le 30 Juillet


Hier les TV israéliennes ont montré des clips de la guerre psychologique que mène Tsahal contre le Hezb : sur les images de corps de hezbollanis, défilent des dizaines de noms de terroristes tués, et on peut entendre Nasrallah dire « nous donnons les noms de nos morts », montage fait à partir d’un de ses discours où il refusait, justement, de donner les noms des hezbollanis tués dans les combats.
Et puis sur les photos du matériel iranien surper-sophistiqué du Hezbollah, passent les numéros de biper des chefs du Hezbollah ! Ceux, par exemple, des commandants des unités de drones et de missiles iraniens.
Alors notez celui là : 10013 et vous pouvez appeler Imad Mourgnié, l'officier des opérations du Hezbollah et grand copain de Zarkawi!

Random Ranter said...

Sherri -

You are wrong again. I am a proud supporter of NPR. Listen to BBC and also read pretty much anything I can get my hands on from OUTSIDE the US. Fox news does not enter my home.

What I see from all that is a very distinct pattern emerging from the religious extremists who have hijacked Shia Islan, much like Bush and his cronies have hijacked Christianity here in the states. Unfortunately for Lebanaon, you are caught in the middle. The mullahs of Iran, speaking through their puppet, Ahmadinejad are out to destroy Israel. They are using Hezbollah to achieve that result.

If you want a free and stable and peaceful Lebanon, your enemy is not Israel, it is Hezbollah. Wake up and STAND UP!

Random Ranter said...

Omer -

Your plans makes sense and I agree it would be accepted by Israel and maybe even Syria (if you can break them free of Iranian alliance.) But it will not be accepted by Hezbollah/Iran. They are not intereted in a peaceful resolution unless it means no Israel. Thus, the plan fails.

Sherri said...

Omer,

That sounds great. It's just such a fragile peace right now. And I see on TV the Shiites returning to their villages in the south, and encountering such devastation.

I see on their faces such pain and and hate and rallying around Nasarallah. Can these emotions be contained?

I saw on LINK Mosaic news clips from Arab countries, pictures of a village and Hezbullah members rejoicing over what they called loots from the war, tanks left behind and what they claimed were parts of bodies of dead Israeli soldiers, being paraded before the cameras.

I will keep praying for peace there.

Sherri

Sherri said...

randam ranter,

I'm happy you are not a fan of FOX news. You keep saying Hezbullah is the problem and has to be disarmed. Realistically, how can that be done? My belief is that it cannot be done forcibly by anyone.
Especially right now, as the Shiites see the devastation in the south, as they see their homes lost and neighbors and families lives lost. Remember, Hezbullah represents the Shiite Muslims, 40% of the population in Lebanon.

Think a moment about what you would do if you were a villager in the South and a member of the Shiite community right now. Would you give up your arms, as you bury your dead friends and relatives and look at your home that is now just rubble? Would you give up your arms, being left completely defenseless?

An attempt to disarm Hezbullah by the Lebanese army would lead to civil war in Lebanon. Would that benefit the Lebanese? They cannot deal with that right now, after all the losses suffered.

And violence only fuels religious extremism. Doesn't history keep showing us that over and over?

We need to show the people there are alternatives to violence and the ways of Hezbullah. That the rest of society accepts and respects the Shiite Muslims,as fellow human beings, even if they do not understand their customs and ways.

All groups can work together for the common good of all Lebanese by being more tolerant and respecting each others differences and everyone making compromises.

abou al jamejem said...

Sherri, if you like Iran and HA maybe you should go and try living in Iran and see how they treat women overthere. That's the first time I see that a western woman like you support Radicals and Extremists.

Sherri said...

abou al jamejem,

I do not support Iran and Hezbullah. I do not speak Persian or Arabic, and have never been to either Iran or Lebanon.

But I believe that Iran is made up of human beings, most of them not radicals, most of them just ordinary people who want a chance to live their lives and raise their children in peace.

Hezbullah is a group that acts for Shiite Muslims, who are also human beings, most of them not radicals, just ordinary people who want a chance to live their lives and raise their children in peace.
And Shiite Muslims are the majority group in Lebanon.

We, the US or Israel, do not have to kill or destroy them (Iran or Hezbullah) just because we choose to classify them all as "radicals and extremists" and choose to believe their only goal in their lives is to destroy Israel and the US.

They are not the threat to us we are making them out to be. Why can't we just leave them alone? Why do we have to try to impose our ways on them? Who says a democracy like in the US or Isarel is best for them? Shouldn't that be their choice, not ours?

Most of all I want peace. And I think that only happens with dialogue, when you speak to your enemies and work out your differences diplomatically, not by dropping bombs on people.

Sherri

Akiva M said...

>>They are not the threat to us we are making them out to be. Why can't we just leave them alone? Why do we have to try to impose our ways on them? Who says a democracy like in the US or Isarel is best for them? Shouldn't that be their choice, not ours?<<

Why can't "we" just leave them alone?

Because they do things like make a cross border raid to kill and capture "us", or have no compunction lobbing rockets at civillians.

Because their goal is "our" death. Hezbollah in their own words:

"Hezbollah's spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin had this to say about the Farms: "If they go from Sheba'a, we will not stop fighting them. Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine...[Jews] can go back to Germany or wherever they came from.”[18]" (Quote from New Yorker, 10/14/2002)

Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah: "If Jews all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide." (NY Times, May 23, 2004, p. 15, section 2, column 1.)

Because they talk about needing to free Samir Quntar.

Why can't we leave them alone? Because they refuse to let us.

Sherri said...

akiva m,

You say their goal is your death. Who, whose goal is Israel's death? every man, woman, and child in Iran and every man, woman, and child who is a Shiite Muslim in Lebanon? Can you kill every single one of them? If you don't, the ones who survive will grow up to hate you and try to kill you.

Israel's hate for Hezbullah and Iran is no less then the hate you perceive they have for Israel.

Let go of the hate. Let them bury their dead and rebuild their homes. Don't let the fear you have of their hate for you lead to more violence.

Akiva M said...

Sherri,

You're making a fundamental mistake. I am not saying that their goal is death; they said it, openly and repeatedly and with pride.

>>You say their goal is your death. Who, whose goal is Israel's death? every man, woman, and child in Iran and every man, woman, and child who is a Shiite Muslim in Lebanon? Can you kill every single one of them? If you don't, the ones who survive will grow up to hate you and try to kill you.<<

um . . . ok. Israel doesn't have anybody's death as a goal. It's goal is simply not to be attacked. Not all that hard to understand the difference.

>>Israel's hate for Hezbullah and Iran is no less then the hate you perceive they have for Israel.<<

Sherri, do you understand what hate means? It is an irrational and emotional response. Israel doesn't "hate" Iran; it's threatened (literally) by Iran and responds appropriately.

Aside from which, you are playing semantic games. Not all hate is equivalent. Nazis hate jews. Jews hate nazis. Equivalent?

Johnny hates women, so he rapes and beats them. I hate cats, so I don't buy one. Equivalent?

Yes, yes, I know, you admire Hezbollah. That's not an intelligent or defensible position to take once you are aware of their clear statements of genocidal intent (as you have been made aware)

Sherri said...

akiva m,

Hate is hate. In my mind, it is always something to be avoided, regardless of who harbors the hate and why. Because it poisons the mind of the person who harbors it. And it can lead to destructive behavior.

It is not sanctioned to destroy and kill everyone who we perceive as hating us. Nor is it OK to kill others when we feel hate for them.

Whether we hate or not, we always make choices as to how we act upon that hate. So what if some members of Hezbullah hate Israel? So what if some officials in the government in Iran hate Israel. That is no reason to destroy them, on the pretext of self defense, or because "they hate us and want to destroy us."

Only by forgiving each other and stopping the hate will peace be achieved.

I do not admire Hezbullah for their genocidal intent, as you state. I do have some admiration for them for their acts in defending their country.

I do not believe Hezbullah and the over 1 million Shiite Muslims in Lebanon, including the children, all have genocidal intent against Israel and are all a threat to Israel. I do not believe all people in Iran have genocidal intent against Israel and are all a threat to Israel.

Hezbullah and the over 1 million Shiite Muslims in Lebanon are human beings, created by God and made in God's image, just like you are. The people in Iran are all human beings, made in the image of God, just like you are, too.

Let them live their lives and live in peace.

Akiva M said...

>>Whether we hate or not, we always make choices as to how we act upon that hate. So what if some members of Hezbullah hate Israel? So what if some officials in the government in Iran hate Israel. That is no reason to destroy them, on the pretext of self defense, or because "they hate us and want to destroy us."<<

Sherri, did you miss the part where Hezbollah moved past speech and into actions?

Look, you (hypothetical, generic "you") want to rant and rave about how you want to kill me? Fine by me; you can speak all you want. But when you take steps to put that plan into action - buying weapons, breaking into my house, harassing my kids - it is no longer right or even sane for me to ignore your actions on a "live and let live" theory.

Hezbollah and Iran are talking about killing Israelis and destroying Israel, and Hezbollah and Iran (through Hezbollah) took steps towards that outcome. As soon as they moved from talk to action, the time to "just let go" passed. And as soon as they started to take those steps, "self-defense" became a reality, not a "pretext"

Sherri said...

akiva m,

There is another very plausible explanation for Hezbullah's actions in engaging in hostile actions against Israel, that does not assume the goal of Hezbullah and the over 1 million Shiite Muslims in Lebanon is Israel's destruction. Their actions can be explained on the basis of a resistance and reaction to regular and ongoing invasions of Lebanon's air space by Israel, a resistance and reaction to regular incursions by Israel across the border to kidnap Lebanese individuals or perpetrate targeted assasinations against Lebanese residents, a resistance to occupation of Lebanese land (Sheeba Farms), a resitance and reaction to Israel refusing to turn over a map of landmines it left in Lebanon in its prior occupation, and a reaction to Israel holding Lebanese prisoners with which Hezbullah desired to exchange for Israeli soldiers. They also sympathize with the plight of the Palestinians, who live under Israeli occupation and a condition characterized by humanitarian agencies as a humanitarian crisis.

In summation, Hezbullah has rational reasons to resist Israel.

The kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers was not an isolated incidence of Hezbullah aggression. There have been ongoing skirmishes between Israel and Hezbullah for the past 6 years.

Iran supports Hezbullah because they (Hezbullah) are a group of Shiite Muslims and Iran is a country that consists of over 90% Shiite Muslims. They share the same religious ideology and Iran believes Israel should stop occupying Arab land, follow United Nations Resolution 240, and give up land it has illegally occupied in violation of International law since the 1967 Arab Israeli war. This includes land of Syria, Lebanon, and the West Bank and Gaza.

Dimitry said...

sherri

Did every man, woman and child in Germany during the 30's and 40's wanted to kill all Jews?

If no, did that help one iota for the Jews that were in concentration camps? Did it mean it was wrong not to compromise with the Nazis and to fight with Germany until the latter's pretty complete destruction?


Nothing to do with the current situation, just applying your reasoning on a different situation.