Wednesday, August 30, 2006

The "Divine Victory" becomes ever more apparent...

As the dust begins to settle in Lebanon, Hassan Nasrallah's "Divine Victory" becomes clearer for everyone to see. The Associated Press reports that thousands of Lebanese "are unable to return to their homes two weeks after the cease-fire took hold because they feel too insecure or their houses are destroyed, the U.N. refugee agency said Tuesday."

Jack Redden, spokesman for the UNHCR, said, "in the area of Byblos, 2,600 people were still homeless, adding that there were 3,400 in Kesrouan and 6,000 in the Metn." Redden then said that "the charity group Caritas estimated that there were still 35,000 homeless people in Beirut."

These figures do not take into account families who have returned to the South or Harek Hreyk, yet reside with family or friends (this category obviously constitutes the majority of Lebanon's new internally displaced population).

I couldn't be angrier. The Israelis definitely dropped the bombs, but Hizballah provided them with exactly what they needed to go through with the bombing campaign. Moreover, the organization created such a false sense of security (their now infamous and imaginary "deterrence capabilities") that had the results not been so cataclysmic, I'd be on the floor laughing my eyes out.

The primary purpose of responsible combatants (i.e. Armies) around the world is to protect the population that provides it with the manpower and resources it needs to exist. Hizballah, on the other hand, appears to exist at the expense of the population that, at the very least, provides it with the manpower it needs.

How does Nasrallah get away with it? Well, much smarter people could probably give you the answer to that question. Maybe this book will help. If it does, come back and tell me - I'd like to know!

Update: Here are some more facts & figures to celebrate (remember, every single one of those numbers has a life and story attached to it):
  • Economist Kamal Hamdan forecast that unemployment could more than double from the official level of nine percent before the fighting to as high as 20 percent in the coming months.
  • Fellow economist Marwan Iskandar said: "In the short term, over the next six months, 50,000-55,000 people are going to lose their jobs."
  • Iskander estimated the number of lost jobs in the industrial sector could climb to 10,000. Another 2,000 retail workers are expected to be laid off as consumption plummets.
  • Analysts agree that tourism and services will probably suffer the most... . In high season, 110,000 people are employed in those sectors, and they were looking forward to a record year as the country continued to rebound from its 1975-90 civil war.
  • About 1,000 more cafes and restaurants could still close, while around 100 in central Beirut that cater to rich Gulf tourists now operate with reduced shifts, Ariss said.


Dimitry said...

How does HA get away with it? By blaming it all on Israel ("who thought they'd react in such an insane way? And besides, we know they were planning to do exactly this two months hence") and labelling anyone who disagrees a traitor and Israeli collaborator. Propaganda ahoy. Many people buy it. The future of Lebanon depends pretty much on the answer to one question: how many.

John Smith said...

A few of my own thoughts:

My personal experience from this war:
I served as a combat soldier in the IDF artillery forces. Although our unit didn’t cross the border into Lebanon in this war, we had our share of fighting. The intense heat, the sun burns, the bad food, the lack of sleep, the physical pain caused by lifting, moving and firing thousands of artillery shells, the constant explosions all day and all night, Katyusha rockets falling 300 feet from us, the fear of death, not seeing the wife and kids for weeks… It was better than what I’ve expected from war (mainly because the guys in my unit are great), but still… war looks much better with a bucket of popcorn in your hands…

Regarding the start of the war:
I guess a large operation against HA was planned a long time ago. The kidnapping was just the excuse needed by the IDF. Israel saw HA getting stronger on the other side of the border without being restrained by the Lebanese government. Over the last 6 years, from time to time, HA shot with small fire arms like AK-47 at border patrols and fired Katyusha rockets at Israeli towns, but it was always ‘small enough’ not to justify a serious military operation. At some point everybody here felt like ‘enough is enough’. You can pinch a giant for some time, but eventually he will step on your head. Sure, crushing your scull seems like a very inappropriate response to the last pinch…

Regarding the goals of the war:
If I remember correctly the first press meeting generated 3 goals set by Israel. Return the kidnapped soldiers home, stop rocket launches at Israeli cities and disarm HA. The first goal, I hope, will be achieved in a few weeks. The second one was of course achieved. The third goal… well… I guess it’s now up to the Lebanese people. The whole idea was that the military operation will leverage the diplomatic effort.

Regarding the Litani river goal:
I think this was just some bullshit goal set for the IDF (and Israeli public) so it would appear like some military goal has been achieved and a ceasefire can be declared. Everyone with a map can see that a Katyusha rocket with a range of 30-40 kilometres and beyond can be launched north of the river and still hit Israeli cities.

Regarding Lebanese civilian casualties:
When you are hitting civilians, all you do is score more negative points in the public eyes. We all saw the pictures. We were all shocked. We all felt sorry. No one in Israel went to the street celebrating like it’s done on Palestinian cities. I have been serving as a combat soldier in the IDF since 1993 and have fought in the current war, Lebanon, the west bank, the Gaza strip, and almost every Palestinian city in Israel. From my personal experience, the IDF never, I repeat, NEVER aims at innocent civilians and does its best to avoid hitting them. I can even say that many times it increases the risk to its own soldiers. Of course there can always be mistakes, but that’s all they are. Mistakes.

Regarding Israeli civilian casualties:
I’m sure that if you saw pictures of Israeli civilians and children hit by Katyusha rockets (or Palestinians suicide bombing) you would be shocked as all of us were from the Qana pictures. Although this could be used as a great propaganda, in Israel (as in other western countries) it is not done. It is called respect for the dead, and it is considered here more important than scoring points in the UN.

Regarding the future:
In the near future Israel will have to solve some issues with the Palestinians, Syria and Iran. Please handle HA. Thanks in advance.

BOB said...

hi Raja

I m reading the book, and it is very very intresting.
It depict the inner working of Hezballah and its organization. and explains the theolgical basics that governs it, shedding some light on the special relationship linking Hezbollah to Iran.


MERKOVA said...

Nasrallah gets away with it because the lebanese people does not have the guts to kick his terrorist ass out of lebanon. His not even lebanese.

Lirun said...

a weakened economy sux badly..

but a bogus economy built on a time-bomb can be even worse is the ticker isnt difused..

wishing you economic recovery and stability.. ultimately both are required for a sustainable future..


francois said...


you should have a look to this link

i just have one remark, when we see the trend of the events, there was 1 million of displaced people before.

PanEcclesiastes said...

Umm, lebanese guys? Don't look now, but the Hezb'Allah represenatives don't look satisfied with the destruction.

They are refusing to return the two Israel soldiers...

Sure would be bad if the war was suddenly back ON again.

Fearless said...

Arab majority may not stay silent

By Youssef M. Ibrahim
The New York Sun
Published July 19, 2006

That women do not have to look like walking black tents. That men do not have to wear beards and robes, act like lunatics and run around blowing themselves up in order to enjoy 72 virgins in paradise. And that secular laws, not Islamic Shariah, should rule our day-to-day lives.

And yes, we, the silent Arab majority, do not believe that writers, secular or otherwise, should be killed or banned for expressing their views. Or that the rest of our creative elite--from movie makers to playwrights, actors, painters, sculptors and fashion models--should be vetted by Neanderthal Muslim imams who have never read a book in their dim, miserable lives.

Nor do we believe that little men with head wraps and disheveled beards can run amok in Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq, making decisions on our behalf, dragging us to WAR whenever they please, confiscating our rights to be adults, and flogging us for not praying five times a day or even for not believing in God.

More important, we are not silent any longer.

Rarely have I seen such an uprising, indeed an intifada, against those little turbaned, bearded men across the Muslim landscape as the one that took place last week. The leader of Hezbollah, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, received a resounding "no" to pulling 350 million Arabs into a war with Israel on his clerical coattails.

The collective "nyet" was spoken by presidents, emirs and kings at the highest level of government in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bahrain, Qatar, Jordan, Morocco and at the Arab League's meeting of 22 foreign ministers in Cairo on Saturday. But it was even louder from pundits and ordinary people.

Perhaps the most remarkable and unexpected reaction came from Saudi Arabia, whose foreign minister, Prince Saud bin al-Faisal, said bluntly and publicly that Hezbollah's decision to cross the Lebanese border, attack Israel and kidnap its soldiers has left the Shiite group on its own to face Israel. The unspoken message here was, "We hope they blow you away."

The Arab League put it succinctly in its final communique in Cairo, declaring that "behavior undertaken by some groups [read: Hezbollah and Hamas] in apparent safeguarding of Arab interests does in fact harm those interests, allowing Israel and other parties from outside the Arab world [read: Iran] to wreck havoc with the security and safety of all Arab countries."

As for Hezbollah and its few supporters, who have pushed for an emergency Arab summit meeting, the response could not have been a bigger slap in the face.

Take a listen:

Abdul Rahman al-Rashed, the general manager of Al-Arabiya television, possibly the most influential Arab opinionmaker today, was categorical: "We have lost most of our causes and the largest portions of our lands following fiery speeches and empty promises of struggle coupled with hallucinating, drug-induced political fantasies."

As for joining Hezbollah in its quest, his answer was basically, "you broke it, you own it."

Tariq Alhomayed, editor in chief of the Arab daily Asharq al-Awsat, stuck the dagger in deeper: "Mr. Nasrallah bombastically announced he consulted no one when he decided to attack Israel, nor did he measure Lebanon's need for security, prosperity and the safety of its people. He said he needs no one's help but God's to fight the fight."

Mr. Alhomayed's punch line was, in so many words: Go with God, Sheik Nasrallah, but count the rest of us out.

Several other Arab pundits, not necessarily coordinating their commentary, noted that today Sheik Nasrallah has been reduced to Osama bin Laden status, a fugitive from Israeli justice, sending out his tapes from unknown locations to, invariably, Al-Jazeera, the prime purveyor of bin Laden's communications.

All in all, it seems that when Israel decided to go to war against the priestly Mafia of Hamas and Hezbollah, it opened a whole new chapter in the Greater Middle East discourse. And Israel is finding, to its surprise, that a vast, not-so-silent majority of Arabs agrees that enough is enough.

To be sure, beneath the hostility toward Sheik Nasrallah in Sunni Muslim states lies the deep and bitter heritage of a 14 Century Sunni-Shiite divide, propelled to greater heights now by fears of an ascendant Shiite "arc of menace" rising out of Iran and peddled in the Sunni world by Syria.

The sooner this is settled the better.

nisa said...

John Smith said "I guess a large operation against HA was planned a long time ago. The kidnapping was just the excuse needed by the IDF."

God Knows Best. still, i'm a bit confused why the Raja is against Hezbollah. i think the history itself should be looked into, & not just this particular month of war.

anyway, "women walking like black tents" can also describes not just some ME muslims. nuns wear black robes as well. beards also exist in other faiths. why do you hold against it? & Islamic Shariah is not anything as describe, just calling it as the veil & the beard etc is only your shallow perception. the Shariah is a just law for all. it is the best law.

lebanese confuses me.

John Smith said...


Please don't use things I said out of context. HA is still the one to blame for this war.

Raja said...


I am happy we confuse you. I am proud we confuse you. I am exctatic we confuse you.

Achillea said...

nuns wear black robes as well.

nisa, you might be unaware -- nuns are volunteers, and nobody beats or murders them for 'immodesty' or 'family honor' if they don't dress that way.

Al said...

Raja, JS,

You take praise in being differnet and that is far fetched. JS here sounds real, his story at least is. What affected me he is right about the israelis my feel sorry for the pictures. Its sad that PL may not share the same reaction.

Raja, I would like to ask you one question. How do you identify. As a phenecian, or europian-lebanese settler from the 1400s. I am serious, this is not a commont to spite you. I simply want to understand how do you identify your self.

Because its not so easy to talk on this blog, i will tell you my thoughts.

-Its any reasonable politicians goal to work with his own people, and his neighbouring countries. In your blog and posting you dont accept the other. You let people rant on your site no problem, but the real acceptance comes from accepting other lebanese. Also you need to accept the syrians in their own land and rights, (as long as they dont interfere)

- You are with the US/French/Western forces, do you think that christians are far better civilized than arab muslims? and if so, who do you think is more civilized Jews or christians.

- You hate syria, do you believe that an independent lebanon can survive without friendly relations with syria or are relations with israel as a neighbour are enough.

John Smith,
HA is a reaction to your occupation, when you came (armY) in 83 you were probably 12, i was 6, people threw rice on you to rid us from palestinians.

If you want to show us peace, pressure your people to withdraw from Shib3a farms, give back the prisoners. We will give you back your baby killers.

You unjustly say that the HA contineous shooting as israel was unwarranted. Wasnt it israel that killed several people, a farmer, they raided at a water source, and they contineously violated the air space.

Rid Israel from its tirany to us, and we promise you peace. Otherwise we are coming back to this blog in a few years. We are going to be simply older and more tired.

Dimitry said...


Cut the self victimization. Shab'a farm became Lebanese after Israeli withrdrew and HA suddenly lacked a territorial issue (note Syria isn't signing anything that could mean its claim on Shab'a). I'm afraid Kuntar is in for life; if you need a 4-year-old girl's face crushed in, you'll have to do so yourself; and if you merely want to worship him for that, you can do it from afar. Israeli actions after the retreat were the direct result of HA (whose stated aim is the destruction of Israel) taking over South Lebanon, starting amassing strength and attacking Israel.

Now, where's that Mossad paycheck...?

nisa said...

kindly excuse me. but nobody beats or murders muslim women singing & dancing on stage for 'immodesty' or 'family honor' like we're seeing now. i don't support the muslim singers showing cleavage i think they're doing sin. but nobody beats them -- they're even awarded as if role models.

the beating comes from where? it's not islamic. it's only misguided, shallow perceptions. & that is my point. the shariah is the best law, it's only people who misguide themselves about it. may God help me be understood.

anyway, if HA is at fault just because they capture 2 Israeli soldiers -- Israel had captured Palestinian government officials. theyr'e not even soldiers. they're democratically elected officials. & Israel are holding Arab prisoners. will anyone mention that.

or you just care for Israel.

well if Lebanese love Israel, then go welcome then in your state. if you cry being bombed to smitherenes, tell me why i should support you, since you think Israel is the good guys. i should've supported israel is it?

Shmulik said...


In Iran or Taliban's Afghanistan women are beaten/murdered for imodesty. Even here in Israel there were some cases of murder because of "family honor".
No one is saying the problem is islam per se. The problem is islamic fundamentalism. BTW every religeon has this problem to some extent.
Israel has captured Hamas leaders, sure they were elected but they support terroism and have the destruction of Israel as their charter (you can read their charter, it's not secret). Hitler (not that I am comparing him to Hamas leaders, I am just making a point), was elected but it didn't make his actions any more justified or made him immune to retaliation.
Another point, the Hamas leaders were captured after corporal Shalit (the IDF soldier) was captured/abducted from inside the Israeli side of the green line. Off course you can call it a legitemate military operation but than you can't cry about Israel fight with Hamas.
Can it be that some lebanese complain more about hizballah than Israel because... hizballah is actually responsible for the current crisis?

nisa said...
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nisa said...
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chuck said...


is the shabaa farm realy the issue ? if u believe so then u only fool urself.
when Israel will withdraw from the shabaa farms then it will be something else. it never ends.
why doesn't hisballa attack syria ? they hold many lebanese prisoners ? why doesn't hisballa kidnap their soldiers and terrorise the syrian border ?

Israel doesn't control u'r country. invasions occure only when hisballa attacks.
air space is violated because Israel needs to gather information about the deployment of hisballa on the border and inside lebanon.
no hisballa=no invasions by
Israel, no
Israeli violation
of air space,
no war.

so simple yet so complicated.


about the prisoners, palestinian and lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails r visited and being shown to the world.
where r the Israeli prisoners ? r they alive ? r they well ?
nobody knows and no one is allowed to see them.

again, the soldiers were kidnaped not because they did antything, they simply represent Israel.
the people that sit in Israeli jail were picked verry carfully and captured for their actions.
murderers of men weman and children, civilians.

if we will follow the logic of hisballa then Israel must kidnapp as many people as possible every few years, so it can be prepered to negotiate with hisballa for prisoners whenever they decide to kidnap soldiers.

Ron Arad is in prison for such a long time and nobody knows anything about him.
and the 3 soldiers that were kidnapped recently by hisballa and palestinians, nobody knows what is going on with them.
do u care about that ?

nisa said...
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nisa said...
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nisa said...


i hope people can kindly check the history of the land. how was the land before zionism. Also, I'm pondering this video & Naturei Karta.

maybe you can go to or google jews against zionism.

nisa said...


the problem is NOT islamic fundamentalism. say an apple an apple, it's not a pear. people who doesn't go with islamic rules, are not anything islamic.

i hope people will kindly not make passages to link brutalities with islam. don't misguide people. do no evil. when women are beaten/murdered by men in the US, do you call it male fundemantalism?

or do you think i don't make sense, what is male fundamentalism. & so that is what i think of the word you used too. :)

Shmulik said...

you have to excuse me but what makes you believe you know the history of Israel/palestine/the land better than me? Neturi-Karta don't oppose Israel because they love palestinians, respect islam or accept the Shariah but because of a intra-jewish religeous split (They believe Israel should be created by the messiah and not before his coming).
The fact that they are jewish doesn't make me accept their opinion in the slightest.

Shmulik said...


I understand very well that you don't consider 9/11 or the murder of the children in Beslan for example as islamic. The point is that those who commit these acts do consider islam as a moral guide for their actions. I am just pointing out their belief not mine.

chuck said...


but people who go and murder in the name of allha, people who say that "the world has lost it's values and i'll be the one to bring the values of allha by force", what do u call them ?

people who kill their sisters and daughters because they have comited a sin, by going with a man that is not their husband (even when they r not married) and bringing shame on their families,
they do believe they follow the rules of islam. what do u call them ?

i hear some talks in the arab world about wemen sercemcision, if it's necceccery. what do u think about it ?

nisa said...

hi shmulik & chuck,

excuse me too, thanks. still i never mentioned i believe i know the history of Israel/palestine/the land better than anybody. but God made me eyes, hearings & thinking. i read the history of Palestine since it's founded by the Philistines, then came the canaanites. from Abraham down to Jesus. from the many empires (yes, i read the jewish exiles), to muslim rule, to british occupation. then the immigration of jews to Palestine, the war & transplantation of the jewish state. & occupation of it's neighbours.

& yes I read about Naturei Karta. i'm sorry you discount their testament on your own basis. still i don't know how you judge, is only Israeli statement matters? as far as I think, even the UN consider Israeli occupation illegal.

it is illegal.

so i'm going with the most coherent, consistent side of teh story. God wills, i hope He Guides me to the truth. may Allah, the All Knower save the true people.

anyway, all i know is -- i don't call those who commit any vile acts as respresenting the whole muslim religion.

may Allah help us find truth, amen.

Dimitry said...


The people who kill in the name of Allah concider themselves Muslim. I find myself in no position to dispute this definition. You may have ground for that, but since they'll likely say the same about you, one finds himself in an impasse. Religious texts, frankly, usually say exactly what you want them to say, so condradicting interpretations are far from impossible.

Shmulik said...


The UN/most of the world (and many inside Israel)consider only israeli settelments in the occupied/disputed territories as illegal. Neturi karta (and hisballah, for example) consider ALL of Israel as illegal/illegitmate. Thats a hugh difference.
About the biblical philistines: they were "sea people" from greece who in the 12th century BC had crossed the Aegean and the Mediterranian seas to conquer a very small swath of sea-side territrory between Gaza and Ashdod. Despite the similiar sounding name (because judea was named palestine by the romans after the 2nd jewish exile), The philistines have virtualy no connection to the palestinians.

chuck said...


in whole history there was never a palestinian state.

the land in Israel was legali bought by jews untill 1948.
in 1947 the UN made a resolution which devided the land into 2 states, but the palestinian leadership (which was founded in 1920) didn't approve of it and launched an attack on the jewish comunity in Israel, what is called the Israeli war of independence.
in this war ejypt and jordan ocupied the areas which were in the UN control, the gaza strip and the west banq. many palestinians fled out of fear of the Israeli army, although most of them were called by the Israeli army not to leave their home. the people that remaind in their homes were unharmed, as u can see in many villages.
in the end of the war the cease fire lines between Israel ejypt and jordan were determind, and in these lines the palestinian refuges settled.
in 1967 the 6 days war canceled those cease fire lines (because there was no longer cease fire) and the west banq and the gaza strip were taken as part of Israel.

now, even if these territories r occupied by Israel, the palestinians were never willing to compromise with Israel.
like i wrote in another post, Aba Even, an Israeli philosopher (known also around the world) said a few years ago that "the palestinians never miss a chance to miss a chance".
everytime there was a settelment offered during negotiations between an Israeli government and the palestinian authority the negotiations exploded.
Israel even gave thousands of guns in the starting of negotiations in order to establish a palestinian army, and eventually those guns turned against Israeli civilians.

so u have to look on both sides. Israel is not the ultimate "bad guy" here, Israel makes mistakes but the palestinians r not so innocent either.

at least Israel is willing to give away territory for peace. the palestinians refuse even to recognise an Israeli state's existance.

chuck said...

one thing i can't understand,
why is sharia concidered the best thing for u?
i ask not being cinical, i just want to understand a bit more about it.
in jewish tradition u only have to cover u'r hair (for wemen) when u get married, and even cut it off (extremist jews do that)and wear wigs.

Beau Peep said...

Only John Smith's [I am sure this is his pseudonym] comment here resembles some form of sanity.

Rest are emotive.

nisa said...

hi everyone,

as I said before, i read, listen & watch. there are many side of the story, & i take in views most coherent & consistent. Israelis can say what their view. still UN, scholars, Human Right org, NK etc, made theirs too. for me, you know the way i take in the views. all & all, God Wills if you are right may God help you. if others are right, may God help them. you can pray that too if you want.

& to be honest, your respond is not surprising. some has been noted & scholars has replied. others have replied.

in my own thinking, saying there are no palestine brings the whole issue like a house of cards. if anyone would care to remember, the longest & strongest rule of the land in history is, Muslim rule. for centuries. if you are true, that the land is always been Israel, then it makes the people of the land since the very beginning -- Israelis. so if they are Israelis, then, let them live with you. they're your brothers. :)

& historically, maybe even religiously, Israelis had been noted to went to live in Egypt. so who lived & rule the land, Philistine & Canaanites are times prior to Moses. not Israelis. you did live in the land, but it's not more special than any other local residents. in recent times, Jane Stillwater's blog mentioned her Israeli friend, "For hundreds of years, Muslims and Christians had lived - mostly - in peace in this village.. The Israeli army wanted to hide any evidence of destroying the village.. Other villages took us in but then they too were destroyed."

i can build many case against you. but sorry, the time is limited. :)

anyway, even if one says no village, no state. the people are there, the graves are there. anyone can try erasing history, but i'm taking views, as well rounded & wisely as i can. also, about UN. there could be more resolutions, if not vetoed by the US. Multiple times. UN peacekeepers have been striked, & you know what happened in UN.

still thanks if you say the occupation it's illegal. i hope Israel will respect it & move out from West Bank, Gaza & neighbouring parts. if you say the land was bought etc, still others have denied. i'm concluding based on views that are consistent, in this case with what happened next.

Israel is willing to give away territory for peace? The video I shared explains that. click it to see why.

& thanks chuck. :) alhamdulillah, i believe in shariah. i see no reason to deny. for the scarf, personally i think being modest is purer & benefits the whole society. if it's good for married woman, why not single girls?

God Knows Best. i'm sorry if i hurt anybody, or don't adress anyone personally. May God guide us to truth. thanks.

Shmulik said...


I think you didn't understand me. I havn't said that there are no palestinians (although this was a POV in Israel many years ago that no one believes in any more). I only said that the biblical philistins are not the same as today palestinians. I don't think that anybody claims that there is a connection.
You say "if you say the land was bought etc, still others have denied"
Please explain to me, how could the jews conquer arab land if the zionists came to the land in the 19th century while the Haganah (the proto-IDF) only came into being in the 1920s. I also remind you that the presence of british troops that had ruled the land in that time made "conquest impossible (you couldn't just go and "conquer", you would run into british troops). As you see, buying land was the zionist only option, an option that was used under both ottoman and british rule. Please name one arab village that was conqured before 1948.

Jewish Lady in US said...


I am very glad you are posting to this blog. I admire your willingness to argue your points even though everyone seems to disagree with you. This is a good exercise in learning and sharing other people's points of view.

I looked at your blog and I see you were born in 1980 in Kuala Lumpur. I was living in your country when you were born. I was 23 years old then, a U.S. Peace Corps volunteer. I was a teacher. I taught English and Mathematics in a Malaysian secondary school near Alor Setar. Half my students were Malayu and half were Chinese. I spoke Melayu fluently then, but I have forgotten, so please forgive me for not using your language.

When I lived in your country, there was a revolution in Iran that surprised many people. One result was that Sharia law started coming to Malaysia. The Malaysia government opposed it. They said in the newspapers that it was not the true Islam. But many of my students - my best students - accepted it and loved it like you do.

I did understand why they loved this law, because the Sharia that went to Pakistan was very brutal. The Sharia authorities beat women for adultary. They cut off hands of children for stealing bread.

I read this in magazines and newspapers that I was allowed to receive, but you - the people of Malaysia - were not allowed to receive them. Your government did not let you read things because it was afraid the people might start a civil war. I was very surprised to learn that there were things we were not allowed to talk about.

I learned your language and lived with your people for more than two years. I learned about your religion, I lived with three very religious Muslim women and a child, and I lived close to a mosque. But nobody in Malaysia knew anything about me or my religion except what they saw on television. What they saw on television was for entertainment and to sell things. It was not for information.

At the time, your country was not anti-Israel like it is today. Why should it be? There were no Jews there, you knew nothing about them, and most of the problems were between the Malays and Chinese. Because your country was not anti-Israel, there was no reason for me to tell people that I was Jewish. I am sorry now that I did not take the chance then to describe all of who I was, so that people could see with their own eyes what a real Jewish person is.

You are angry because there are many Muslim prisoners in Israel jails. You know that because you read it or heard it somewhere. Who writes the things you read, who says them? What do they want you to think by reading them? Think of that. Those prisoners that are in Israel jails are there because they murdered innocent people, many many innocent people. They murdered people simply because they were Jewish and living in Israel. Do you think differently about the prisoners in Israeli jails if you know that? I am not asking you to believe it, because you may not. I am asking you to think about it.

Again, it is very good that you are reading and posting here. This is what the free exchange of information is about.

Isha Allah.

Sherri said...

chuck and nisa,

United Nations Resolution 242 was enacted in November 1967 and requires Israel to withdraw from territories they occupied in the 1967 war. It is this land that organizations have proposed become a Palestinian State. Israel refuses to follow this United Nations Resolution. Therefore, the oppression of the Palstinian people in Gaza and the West Bank continue and terror acts against Israel continue (from elements within the Palestinian population).

Here are comments of Ralph Nader in a recent interview with Amy Goodman of Democracy Now:

"But getting back to the terrible situation in Gaza and the West Bank, I think the framework of analysis here for Americans in trying to persuade their government to pursue peace instead of mayhem and war in the Middle East and in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is the following. Just ask four simple questions:
Who is the occupier, invader, and who is seizing more land and water? It's Israel. Who has the most military power and domination, by a thousand to one, the most modern, probably, army in the world, after the United States? Who has slain more civilians and destroyed more civilian homes and infrastructure? Again, Israel. And who has the full backing of the US government? Israel.

Now, doesn't it seem logical that the parties who should take the initiative in what they declare should be a two-state solution should be Israel and the United States? That's the essential point here, that the US has an awesome responsibility for that suffering, the deaths and injuries and disease and incarceration of the people of Gaza and the gulag that's called the West Bank, where more land is being seized, more water is being taken, colonies are expanding, Israeli-only highways are built. I mean, we're talking here about the biggest prison in the world, and it's financed in significant part by the US taxpayers and a supine congress. And so, it is very important, because all this is going to lead to more instability in the area, which will boomerang against our own security in the United States.

And all this requires people to speak up, like Rabbi Lerner of Tikkun and the Jewish Americans who were speaking up, like the 300 British Jews who spoke up condemning the devastating attack by Israel against defenseless people in Gaza. And, of course, all over the world the protests that are going on. There are 66 UN Resolutions that are still on the books, critical of Israel, that Israel has not complied with. 66, not just the one resolution about disarming Hezbollah."

Thre will not be peace in the Middle East until the Israeli Palestinian issue is resolved.

chuck said...


look, the fact is that Israel does recognise the need of the palestinians in having a country.
but Iserael has been giving a lot more to palestinians then palestinians has been giving.

we gave them trust.
we trusted them for wanting peace.
we gave them weapons,which turned eventually against Israeli civilians in daily attacks on Israeli roads and Israeli cities.
we gave them money, to build their economy, their infrastructure and their schools. this money was taken for the personal use of arafat and his wife, and for other personal use of members of the palestinian authority.
it was used in buying more guns and making bomb belts for suiciders.

in the peace talks between Rabin and arafat arafat was allowed free pass from and out of the palestinian territories. rabin gave him trust.
arafat was using this trust he was given and tranffered more arms into gaza using the diplomatic imunity he was given by the Israelies. he was taking guns by his helicopter and his armored car, and the diplomatic imunity did'nt allow to perfporm any kind of searc on his car and hellicopter.

when Israel understood, after the second intifada had started, that the palestinian leadership was going towards violance in order to "drive the Israelies into the sea", only then people started talking about a fence that will seporate us from them. nobody liked such an idea. people called it the berlin wall rising up again. but it was necceccery, in a time when palestinian suicide bombers started blowing themselves inside cities, in busses, in shoping markets, and even in weddings and in hotels.
the fact is that the wall stopped the suicide bombers.
maybe one day, when the palestinian will decide to sit down an talk to Israel, and recognise we exist, instead of ignoring, maybe that will be the day that the wall will be broken.
but again, the fact is that it is effective in preventing suicide bombers from exploding in Israel and killing israeli civilians.

ayear ago mahmud a zahar said to an italian paper that "Israel's withdrawl to the '67 line would be only a temporary solution. it could be a solution for 5 maybe 10 years, but eventually all palestine must go back to being muslim, and Israel must be earased off the map."

2 or 3 days ago, the second hand of the palestinian prime minister said something that gave me a bit of hope.
he said in a long letter addressed to the palestinians, that since the ocupation in gaza was stoped (when Israel left the gaza strip) the palestinians didn't really try to help themselves. he said that (and this is the amasing part) it's time that the palestinians stop blaming the Israeli ocupation for all of their trubble and try to look inside for the real problems.

so maybe there is still hope afterall.

and today, the hamas leadership doesn't even want to recognise Israeli state, and calls for more kidnapping and killing of Israelis.

chuck said...


i didn't say that the land was always Israeli. jewsih law was the first to inhabit the land as a recognised country. before the Israeli state that is mentioned in the bible the land was ocupied by tribes. it was never a state. and there were no palestinians as we know them today. there is absolutly no conection between the palestinians then and now.

the Israeli state and jewsih religion r mentioned long before there was ever a mulim rule, or muhamad. sorry if that offends u, i don't want to offend u, just quating history, knwon to scholars.

but Israeli law wasn't always in the region, u'r right in that. this region was conqured by many armies, and many laws have passed this land.
the fact is that Israeli people have allways lived here. allways throught history. there were many exiles of the jewish people, trying to dissconecct them from this land, and allways jewish people came back to this land. because we have no other land. this is our home land and always will be. because god wills it.
god connected us to this land. and u know what, it seems that wether u r a religious jew or a non religious, all jews have some kind of unexplaind attraction to this land. i guess it's god's way of pointing us back to our origins, back to our home.

and we consider palestinians as our uncle's sons. not exactly brothers.

we always understood that there will be 2 states here, Israeli and palestinian.
the thing is, when will palestinians acknoledge that as well ?

chuck said...


ignor the last 2 lines i wrote in my post to u.

nisa said...

Hi all,

i'm sorry i didn't read all yet. time is flying. special for jewish lady, hi! :) do you have a great time in Malaysia? i don't know why people said what they say, but honestly, i'm not anywhere being angry. i've been more hurt in my sister's blog. in fact if it doesn't sound so bad, maybe to people under siege (i'm sorry), i actually feelt pretty good right now. all Glory to Allah, life is great. :D

anyway, i know jews. the Quran documents the Children of Israel. plus the encyclopedia, internet, tv, search engine, programmers, blogs, etc. there's no base at all to not to know. although, if you ask, i must admit i never knowingly met a Jew. but i never met an Eskimo either. but encyclopedias teach about Jewish traditions etc. although the same encyclopedia states muslims do nothing in Ramadhan. :P so i understand the need to sift information.

so for me i simply state the side of the story i believe is most consistent & coherent. i hope i don't want to iterate that many times. you can say have your say, still others have theirs too.

may God guides us to truth. :)

Sherri said...


Why can't Hamas recognition of Israel be negotiated and a part of any peace deal? I keep hearing there cannot be negotiations or dialogue with someone that does not recognize Israel.

Also, I really think that international organizations (such as the United Nations) and other countries (like the United States and Arab countries) have an obligation to come forward and push a resolution to this conflict forward. I think there has to be involvement of third parties, who can be neutral, and bring both sides together here.

The United Nations has a moral responsibility to do something about this. Just think about how Israel became a state to begin with, with the involvement of the United Nations. I do not think the present situation is fair to the Palestinians or Israel. And it is not all Israel's fault at all. What we need is a solution here.

chuck said...

why in the hell should a country negotiate to have recognition when it is already being recognised by the world ??
do u think that the netherlands should negotiate with anyone about the recognition of the netherlands as for being a country ? why should Israel negotiate about that ??

if soone would come to u on the street and tell u that he doesn't recognise u for being a human being, would u start giving him u'r money and u'r jewlery just so he will start acknoledging that u r, when everybody clearly sees u as one ?

"Just think about how Israel became a state to begin with, with the involvement of the United Nations."

yea, but the Israeli leaders did accept the UN's proposel and the deccision of the international community, even if it wasn't up to what they were hoping for.
the palestinians were against any solotion that was offered by the international community, since 1947, and before.

chuck said...


look, neghotiations is a fine and noble ideal, but u can't negotiate about everything without limits.
asking for negotiation sabout u'r existance merely shows wickness and drives the other side to push ferther to violence, not to negotiations as u, sherri, might expect. sometimes trying to negotiate actually brings the oposite reaction then what u hoped it would bring.
u can believe that Israel has a lot of experiance on that subject with the palestinians.

Sherri said...


You say Israel should not have to negotiate about recognition of their right to exist. I just addressesd this issue in a comment to a more recent posted article on this site.

But briefly, the answer to this is Israel does not recognize Arab and Muslim rights, including the right of Palestinians to exist as a nation. Further, Israel does not follow and abide by international law, I am referring to 66 United Nations Resolutions that address Israerl's legal borders and laws concerning the treatment of civilians in conflicts (referring to actions of Israel in killing innocent civilians in the Occupied Territories and Lebanon).

It is not reasonable for Israel to refuse to negotiate over a recognition of their rights, when they do not recognize others rights.

chuck said...


i do not understand what u r saying...Israel has already recognised the need for a palestinian state. the only issue that is unsolved is the borders, which r negotiable.
this was all ready and prepered to be signed in oslo. and now hamas has taken back all that has been signed and agred upon in any setelment betwen Israel and the palestinians.

so u'r claim that Israel refuses to recognise the rights of palestinians to have a state r just not true.

as for Israeli arabs which live inside Israel, they r reffered to as being Israelis, and get the citizens benefits and obligations as the rest of the ISraeli citizens, without the obligation of serving the army (except for the druze, that declare loyalty to Israel and serve as any other Israeli jews or non jews that serves the army).

if Israel declared it does not recognise britain as for being a state, because it occupied irland, and if Israel would start sending suicide bombers to get blown up in busses in london, would u suggest britain to negotiate with Israel for getting the Israeli approval of britain as a for being state ??

Israel doesn't have to prove it's right to excist to the palestinians.

if hamas will continue to stick to such a claim and refuse to aknoledge Israel then they will find themselves in worse conditions then their conditions now.

hamas wishes to continue their fight against Israel untill Israel is gone, and they r willing to let their own people suffer for this goal. it is stupid to say that this is Israels fault when Israel is willing to continue negotiations, while hamas is denying Israel's existance.

the fact is that hamas's agenda is a continuation of the fight against Israel and doesn't have any wish to negotiate with Israel. they cry about the occupation but they let their people starve on the streets, while this is happening on streets that the Israeli army has already left for them to control. even they understand that, well, some of them.

sherri, u'r claim that Israel needs to negotiate for it's existance is stupid.

do u even ask urself why is it that hamas would't let go of such a sensless demand when this demand keeps any negotiations from happening ?

if Israel is willing to negotiate and the only thing, that may bring such negotiations that might end the palestinian suffering, is stuck becuase of one stupid sensless demand, then why stick to such a demand that eventually u will have to let go in order to progress ?

the bottom line is that sticking to this refusel of recognition will get the situation to a dead end.
hamas must either accept this or leave the government sit for a better, different government, more willing and more commited for peace.

Sherri said...


I don't think Hamas is saying they will never recognize Israel as a state. Why does Israel insist that Hamas concede this issue now, before they will even allow the elected Palestinian government to exist and meet to discuss issues further? Agreeing on who the governing body is for the Palestinians is not the same as regognizing a Palestinian State.
And recognizing their right to have a state is not the same as agreeing to the existence of a state. Presently, the Palestinians live in areas Israel occupies from the 1967 war (previously a part of Arab countries), which Israel was ordered to return by Resolution 242.

It is Israel that is making the demands here and holding up peace talks, not the Palestinians. It is Israel that is withholding money from the Palestinian government and causing needless suffering among the Palestinian population.