Friday, August 11, 2006

Agreement Reached on UN Resolution

Wohoow!!! A UN draft resolution has been agreed upon, and will be discussed at a Ministerial Meeting in a matter of three hours.

Thus far, I know that it calls for the existing UNIFIL contingent to be beefed up to 15,000 troops from its current 2,000 (I wonder which nations will contribute to this force, and whether it will be deployed along the Lebanese-Syrian border).

The resolution calls for a cessation of violence "at the earliest possible time." (what the hell does that mean? And how will it translate on the ground?)

It also calls for Israeli troops to withdraw from Lebanese soil, and tasks the UNIFIL contingent to monitor the withdrawal.

This development comes about just as Olmert decided to ramp up operations inside of Lebanon.

For a few hours today, disgust at the over-all situation was really starting to set in. It really appeared that all diplomatic efforts had failed, and that Hizballah and Israel were gonna go after each other for the rest of the foreseeable future.

I hope this glimmer of hope doesn't fade away.

Update: British Foreign Secretary (4:20 PM EST interviewed on CNN's Situation Room)
  • We're not sure that all Perm. Mem. of Security Council are on board.
  • We know that we, the French and the Americans are on board.
  • We hope that the resolution will be passed tonight.
  • The resolution is not a chapter seven, but it is 'very, very strongly worded' and clearly mandated
  • The two forces (UN and Lebanese) will work together to 'assert Lebanese sovereignty' and to 'prevent arms reaching any third party within Lebanon.'
  • There is a very clear statement concerning prisoners held by Hizballah and Israel
Update 2: Reports suggest that if the Israelis accept the UN resolution, it will be during their cabinet meeting on Sunday, giving us two more days of hell. A hell in which UN escorted civilian convoys are annihalated for some ephemeral reason that I simply fail to grasp!

Update 3: Condi Rice Speaks To Wolf Blitzer

  • Gov of Lebanon has let me know that Resolution will serve its interests
  • The obligation to disarm Hizballah is not a job for the UN force. It is up to the Lebanese authorities to implement the Taif Accords and disarm all militias in Lebanon
  • Force will not allow a return to the status quo ante
  • It will secure Borders and prevent arms from entering Lebanon illegally
  • It will help the Lebanese Army secure South
  • The force has a very firm mandate to defend itself and to defend its mandate
  • No US troops will participate

125 comments:

Omer (israeli) said...

Lets hope hight.
But dont get hopes to high

GSH - Observer said...

The IDF will star their attack in few hours (according to the IDF speakers)...

omer;

I was reading more news (old and new) today.
Do I see this or Israel is really being pushed / forced by the USA into this war ?

it seems your cabinet members were pushed by Rise and the IDF to widen the attack on Lebanon agains their convinction.

raf* said...

ya raja,

it seems that the extra u.n. troops will be mostly french (who do have a history of not fucking around). israeli troops will withdraw from lebanon at the rate of u.n./leb army movement south so there will be no "empty room" for HA to fill.

with this resolution, HA will not be required to disarm. a ceasefire is called for, but its implementation will depend on HA and the IDF.

a month later there is supposed to be a 2nd resolution dealing with the actual long-term solution of the conflict.

now ... let's just hope that both warring parties will actually play along the u.n. resolution.

i personally predict a massive "last-minute move" by the IDF on the ground and in the air - followed/accompanied by equally massive "retaliation" on the side of HA.

how we all keep our flames of optimism burning is a mystery to me ...

--raf*

levantese.blogspot.com
www.aqoul.com

Andrey said...

gsh -observer, to me it looks like the US pushing was after the first few days, now they are pushed by Israelis and IDF, or maybe just making muscles in front of the diplomats in UN

Andrey said...

The 2nd resolution dealing with the actual long-term solution of the conflict in a month, is actually realy good, because Israel doesn't care about Sheeba, but can't give them away now as a prize to HA

Omer (israeli) said...

gsh,
This is what i think. Olmert want's an Exit fast. He doesn't want israel to be on the same place they were before the war, thou. The voters will never forgive him. So hes trying to at least get an agreement where HEZ is away from the border fances.

In the meanwhile the north of israel is being bombed. a Million people living in bomb shelters. The public is mad that nothing had been done. The Katyushas is NS main levrege, a pressure tool on israel.

Olmert needs to get the pressure off until he can get an agreement. Already many ppl here are angry with Olmert.

The objective of the planned mass invasion is to minimize the katyusha attack, trying to get them down from 160-200 a day to 30-50. Thats the whole deal, thats what the generals said, and olmert has no militiry experiance belive.

At the end of the day it will end with deplomacy. But the gains of each side are also decided on the battle field. Getting the number of Katyusha down, will be a great victory for Olmert. Don't expect him to stand throught this thou, most people in israel are disappointed with him (both left and right).

Loli said...

Nothing surprising about Olmert losing in terms of popularity. This war should never have started. Worse yet, it dragged for too long. No winners, of course. Let's just hope both camps keep it down for a while, until a true cease-fire is reached. A cessation of hostilities is a preamble to a cease-fire, so there is hope. Let's not give up.

loli
http://www.emspeace.blogspot.com/

ronen said...

There won't be any ceasfire on those conditions made by UN.
It seems that no one wants to deal
with the actual problem of Lebanon
which is Hezbollah.
The only way to get rid of this terrorist group is to continue defeat them by the Isareli army.
Israel will continue to push Hezbollah to the north of Lebanon
and to demolish them.
Lebanon should understand that Israel is not their anamy.
The anay of Lebanon is Hezbollah who act on behalf of Iran&Syria.
Unless the entire nations will understand it and make the effort to demolish Hezbollah the tragedy in Lebanon will continue.
Israel loves the lebanese people and have nothing against them, but it should defend against this evil
terrorist orgenosation whom his goal is simply to destroy Israel.
I call to lebanese people to have the courage and to lead steps which will push forward to peace with Israel by supporting the demolishen of Hezbollah.

Love you all lebanese,
Ronen

ronen said...

For realistic point of view regard to the current situation in Lebanon, you are most welcome to visit my blog at:

http://against-hizbollah.blogspot.com/

Raja said...

ronen,

spare us the "love" man. If what Israel is doing to Lebanon now is love, I wonder what you all would do if you hated us!

You can't just bomb people back to the stone age and say you love them!

Get this through your head man, continued military operations will convert all of Lebanon into "Hizballahis." There's only so much people can take before they crack!

The only way out of this mess is diplomacy. The military option has failed!

Omer (israeli) said...

"You can't just bomb people back to the stone age and say you love them! "

Ronnen, you had it comeing.
What did you think, that they will kiss your a*s as well?

Andrey said...

We are rough mucho lovers ;)
sorry no more jokes
+ Olmert urging govt. to accept the resolution

Chas said...

AP is saying Israeli govt has accepted the resolution

Fingers tightly crossed

Chas

Loli said...

Raja,
Thanks for insisting on diplomacy and emphasizing how wrong war is. Diplomacy should have been tried much earlier, not after the military option had failed. The world is backwards.

Solomon2 said...

hell in which UN escorted civilian convoys are annihalated for some ephemeral reason that I simply fail to grasp!

That's the fog of war billowing. The same fog that kept us from knowing you were O.K. for a few days last month.

Ariya said...

Will UNIFIL monitor the withdrawl of Hezbullah terrorists from Lebanon?

ronen said...

Dear raja,
Do you really think we enjoy fighting at Lebanon.
We always tried solve problems by diplomacy first, but what other can we do against evil terrorist organosation that doesn't stop attacking our nation without any reason of self defence and kidnnaping soldiers from their own country.
You know that diplomacy didn't solve things in the past, and you know that the tragedy is that the whole nation community ommited to do something against Hezbollah.
What other options we have.
Even the UN soldiers cooperated with Hezbollah 4 years ago by kidnnaping and killing 3 of our soldiers!
We can't trust no one but us.
I don't know when this operation will be ended and it's really depends on the developments in the fighting area more than it depends on diplomacy.
However, I wish (same as you wish) that this war will end as soon as possible, and that it will end with the result that we will withdraw completely from Lebanon and that Hezbollah finally would be disarmed from their weapon.
As to the victims of this war- nobody is happy to see such pictures of dead children. I also has 2 children and as a father it's difficult for me to see such sights.
But also remember to things:
1. We have also victims from the rockets attacks of Hizbollah. We have the city of Kiryat Shmona which almost totally distroyed by them. We have the whole people at the north which doesn't go to work because of hezbollah agrression, and we as a nation fed up as to those games of Hezbollah.

2. Hezbollah make the most evil thing which can be done by terrorist organisation where he use children, mother and old people as humen shields by preventing then to go out from buildings and houses where it is clear that they use those buildings in order to hide weapons, rockets etc.
We have no choice but attacking places where Hezbollah is located or their weapons.
Don't you understand that leaving Hezbollah now at his status in Lebanon would lead to total tragedy for Lebanon in the next 1 or 2 years?
I want peace at least as much as you want. I want to sit with you one day and eat at a resteurant in Lebanon abd you would be my guest in Israel. It is possible and I really believe on it.
Believe me raja, without a solution for the Hezbolla problem we will find ourselves in a much severe conditions compare to the current days.
I'll emphasise again, those scence of dead children makes me horrify. For the future of the children on both sides let's fight Hezbollah and kick him away from Lebanon.

regards,
ronen

ronen said...

Omer, I know they won't kiss my ass, and it's not the purpose.
But if we will mannage to convience them that Hezbollah is their enemy same as our, than we have a start.

Omer (israeli) said...

ronen,
Sure, but most lebanese have a brain. They can still oppose both Isreal and HEZ at the same time.
We want peace right? so how does bombing civilian help the casue.
You know very well how much anger and hatred are common when buses explode or missile flying.
It goes two ways.

Loli said...

Thank you, Omer, for being able to see both sides.

loli
http://www.emspeace.blogspot.com/

ronen said...

Omer, I totally agree with your analysis but one thing that you must remember is that the fighting of terror not just in our region but at the entire world come also in order to make stabillity between nations. In our case if you look at the present it looks catastrofy, but if we succeed in our goal by disarming hezbollah there would be a better future for both nations even though there is an anger from both sides.
The Yom Kipur war was much terrible and humiliate for the eigiptions. However, we made peace with them.
However, to be realistic, I think that if Hezbolah won't be disarmed there would be a major tragedy for Lebanon compare to what we face now.

Robohobo53 said...

raja - for the last 6 years, hezbollah has been gathering strength at the northern border if israel, adding to their arsenal of rockets, digging bunkers and generally acting like little warlords. there have been unifil (UN) "observers" stationed along the borders for a portion of that time. those un observers have done nothing, nothing but watch as hizbollah gathered strength. when hizbollah started firing rockets from right next to the un posts, what did the un do? nothing! they "observed". when israel finally got tired of it and shot back, then the israelis are called disportionate in their response?

the rockets that hizbollah uses are unguided munitions. their sole purpose is causing terror in civilian populations. when israel strikes back, they use precision weapons. they hit what they aim at. sometimes they hit something they should not, but that is the nature of war.

go to http://www.blackfive.net/main/2006/08/on_the_virtues_.html#comments

israel is acting now to reduce the level of casualties later, on both sides.

lebanon sat on their hands for 6 years while the hizbollah warlords built their little empire backed by syria and iran. if the lebanese want to be free of war then they must have the guts to stand up and take control of their own country from those who would have all of us in chains.

you can call me an islamophobe if you want but it is not correct. phobias are unreasoning fears. my fear and reactions are not unreasoned. i know exactly the fascist face of radical islam that i wish to protect the world against.

the hobo

Chas said...

This is a time for hope.
I share with all of you the hope that this is the begining of the end of suffering for civilian populations on both sides of the blue line.

The lesson, that there is is not now and never was an entirely military solution to this, has cost - is still costing - a lot of innocent lives. I hope it has been well learnt.

Hoping the light at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train

Chas

ronen said...

Dear robohobo,
Let me just correct one fact you missed.
Our Israeli air force havn't missed even one target at this war.
The problem is that after we notified the civilians to leave the places where Hezbollah is hidden, people were enforced by Hezbollah to stay or there were families of Hezbollah who stayed there anyway. Even in Kfar Kana we have evidence that this bulding was full of terrorists.
We know to where we aim our missiles and it's not our fault that Hezbollah use people as humen shields. However, it is still horrifying to see dead children and you must not forget it.
As to the other facts you mentioned I totally agree with you and it leads to the final conclusion that we can trust just on ourselves and not rely upon any resolution or national force from outside.
Well done robohobo, I couldn't express it better than you.

Chas said...

Ronen and Robohobo
Juat to repeat something I have said before in this blog.
NO-ONE IS MORE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHERE BOMBS LAND THAN THOSE WHO DROP THEM.
In the circumstances, hiding behind Hezbollah goes beyond hypocrisy.

still hoping

Chas

thepunditblogger said...

I'm honestly trying to understand something here, so please help. All I hear is how Hezbollah is not supported by the Lebanese people, yada yada. I get that. Here's my question. If Hezboah has no support from Lebanon, then who the heck is fighting in its army and launching the rockets? The head of Hezbollah himself?

My second question is, I think we can all agree on one fact, no matter how you feel it led up to or anything else. At some point Hezbollah attacked an outpost of Israel and kidnapped 2 soldiers. That's not a debatable fact, as Hezbollah itself admits to it. It appears to be of the opinion of most of you that war is not the answer. My question is honest and sincere. What were your expectations of what would happen after the kidnapping? Did you believe that Israel would say something like "That isn't nice. Please give us our troops back, or we'll have to try to negotiate with you?".

thepunditblogger said...

Oh, another question if I may. Another non-debatable fact is that warning pamphlets were dropped in Lebanon by Israel, warning people of the airstrikes. In the US we have some VERY liberal media stations, which present the news not in support of Israel. Even these news stations had video of some Lebanese people laughing at the warning pamphlets and not leaving. A while later, people in these areas were killed. Why didn't people evacuate from the area?

ronen said...

Chas,
If you want peace and hope for Lebanon you must get rid of Hezbollah.
Lebanon at this stage becomes Iran.
If you think that diplomacy will save your country from iranien extremists then you are totally wrong.
If you think that Israel bomb innocent areas then you are wrong again. Hezbollah on behalf of Iran build their own country in Lebanon and it's center is in south beirut.
We totally destroyed this area on south beirut and you should appriciate it. Tell me the truth- did you mennage going into the south area of beirut- I bet not. They'll kill you if you go in. It's not part of your nation but a different self entity named Iran.
I want real peace. Israel wants real peace. Lebanon as nation wants real peace - Hezbollah aimed to destroy Lebanon and Israel as well.

ronen said...

thepunditblogger,
You are great!
It's all true but add to your point one mre thing- Iran& syria support Hezbollah with weapon.
The lebanese are missreble.
Lebanon becomes second Iranian nation.

thepunditblogger said...

ronen, could you email me? I'd like to hear your thoughts on the conflict if I may.

Chas said...

Ronen,
sorry if I was a little short with you guys but I have heard this arguement so many times. (the civilian casualties are Hezbollah's fault arguement).
It is not just wrong, it is old and tired.
When Hez blames Israel for its continueing rocket attacks on N. Israel how do you react? Probably with anger, because the arguement is patently absurd.
Or, to use a neutral example, suppose a bank robbery turns into a hostage situation. The police come up with a brilliant way to end the stand off .. they shoot the hostages! and, of course blame the bank robbers for the fact they were "forced " to do so. What do you think?

Your point about Hezbollah is well taken. But just saying "get rid of Hezbollah" does not achieve much. It is a bit like saying to Israel get rid of Hassidic Jews, or saying to Ireland, get rid of red-haired people.
The political solution is to seperate the armed wing of Hez from the social/political wing and to reduce their support by addressing the legitimate grievances of the Shia minority.
The tragic thing is that this is exactly what Lebanon was trying to do before this whole mess started.

still hoping

Chas

Andrey said...

chas, you must be confusing hasidic jes with someone else, there are braslav hasidic jews, that belive that the most important thing in life is to be happy, they are bringing speakers and stereo systems in front of the malls and they are just dancing to the sounds of trance, there is no hate in them

Itai said...

The important thing is that once the cease fire is reached the Lebanese know that Hezbollah is THEIR internal problem.
From now on if they want to export the problem across the border to Israel then the price tag was set. It's also important to remember that there is an inflation in the region so next time this sort of thing happens it's going to cost them more.

Chas said...

Andrey ..
Sorry, I was not suggesting anything other than that they are an integral part of Israeli society - like red-haired people in Ireland, not that they are in any way morally comparable to Hez. Truly sorry if I gave that impression.

Chas

Chas said...

Resolution has passed unanimously in security council.

If this peace takes, let us all agree to do whatever we can, no matter what we believe, to build it into a lasting peace

still hoping
Chas

Loli said...

Chas,
Yes, let's make sure this doesn't happen again.

thepunditblogger said...

itai has the best solution. If Lebanon wants to keep Hezbollah in its country, fine. As long as it stays ONLY in its country. It leaves the country to ttack Israel, and this happens. Its like "Doctor everytime I hit my head on the wall, It Hurts". If Lebanon wants to keep Hezbollah IN its country, fine. If Hezbollah leaves Lebanon to attack Israel, this will happen again.

Andrey said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Sarah said...

One month LATEr, UN Resolution 1701, but will it be respected?
The bookkeepers will say no. In Israel's short history, it has never respected one of 70 resolutions passed against its aggression. It has violated the UN resolutions each and every time, that is not to mention the UDHR and the Geneva Conventions.

thepunditblogger said...

sarah, geez sounds a whole lot like Resolution 1559, in which Lebanon failed to get Hezbollah out. As a matter of fact, they're in more now than before. By the way, the Geneva Convention doesn't apply to terrorists, nor does it ban war.

FGA said...

Itai, you must be as smart as your miscalculating fool of a prime minister. In the final analysis, Israel will have paid a much greater price, politically speaking, than anyone else. It's utter failure to beat 3000 HA fighters is a disgrace, which clearly will haunt Israeli politicians for a long time...
The world is disgusted with Israel's aggressiveness against civilian targets, and the United States is shocked and dissappointed by how ineffective the IDF has been this time along. I guess from now on it will make more sense to befriend the Saudis than you guys...

-FGA

Chas said...

Hi Loli )
Itai and Punditblogger,
Remember , that when (hopefully soon) the guns fall silent, Lebanon will have to cope with a lot more than Hez. Infrastructure has to be rebuilt, 700,000 (that number still boggles my mind) displaced people have to be returned home. And homes have to be rebuilt - hospitals have to be re-supplied, schools have to be restarted .. and all this with a ruined economy and a fragile political system.
So my question to you is, what will you do to help? Many bridges have been destroyed, not just physical - bridges of trust need to be rebuilt.
Itai, I know you from previous posts to be a reasoning person, not filled with hatred .. is it enough just to wave a big stick and threaten "And don't you dare let it happen again!"?

Peace starts in the heart.

Chas

Andrey said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
3li- said...

I just read the full text of the resolution, and it would be a disgrace if the Lebanese Government accepts as it is.

The resolution puts all the blame for the war and its consequences on HA, and nowhere does it mention or condemn the criminal behavior of Israel and the barbaric destruction it dealt Lebanon.

More inportantly, it does not deal fairly with the Lebanese prisoners held in Israeli jails (it only alludes to settling the issue at a non-determined time), nor does it ask Israel to leave the Shebba farms, nor does it give a real date for Israel to hand over the maps for the land mines.

So what does Lebanon get out of this? A reprieve from the killing and destruction? Ridiculous!!

This is an international body that is supposed to mediate and settle real disputes fairly and justly; not whitewash the barbaric crimes of a party, Israel, and hand it a victory after its mangling of a weaker opponent.

What's next: give Olmert a Nobel Peace Prize?

Having the blood-stained hands of John Bolton and the US on this deal should raise the red alert to its bias and injustice to the Arabs and the Lebanese.

This deal stinks. Lebanon may yet accept it with some reservations. This however is just another indication that the UN is a feeble and irrelvant body that gets played by its most aggressive and powerful members who have a veto on the lives and futures of the rest fot he world. It is also a day of shame for the Arabs as they demonstrate again that they are an incompetent and irrelevant bunch whose historical contribution and role is as dead as the torn bodies of the countless victims of Israel's barbarity and viciouness.

Andrey said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3 : if you realy want Seba Farms, you will get it, we don't need it, we want to give it to Lebanon so that HA won't have Legitimaton, but we can not give it as a prise for HA. As for the prissoners, they may be released to strenghten the lebanese goverment but not Samir Kuntar

Raja said...

Al Ghadab,

you said...

So what does Lebanon get out of this? A reprieve from the killing and destruction? Ridiculous!!

I say...

Shit!!!! Man.... How much more death do you want? Your whole country is on the verge of complete disintigration!

Loli said...

al ghadab,

What do you want? Have all Lebanon destroyed for the stupid Shebaa Farma and a few murderers imprisoned in Israel? Let go of who is right or wrong. In the bigger scheme of precious life and survival, this is a good resolution. YOu won't get anything better. It took them a month to get there. I am not willing to wait another month for relatively pointless demands. Nothing will be left by then.

Raja,

Tawwel belak. Take a deep breath :)

Pasdutout said...

Al ghadabulsaati3,

It seems that Lebanon has a choice (assuming Israel accepts it...)

1. Accept the Cease-fire and start re-building?

OR
2. Continue the fight, and hope for a better deal later?

Do you think the second option is better?

Bad Vilbel said...

Loli said: "Let go of who is right or wrong. In the bigger scheme of precious life and survival, this is a good resolution. YOu won't get anything better. It took them a month to get there. I am not willing to wait another month for relatively pointless demands."

This is pure gold. Exactly correct.
Some people (like Ghadab) need to get their heads out of the sand and let go of what is starting to look more and like childish rethoric.
This is the real world. Pragmatism is the modus operandi here. Shebaa Farms and the 3 prisoners are not an existential issue for Lebanon, contrary to what someone like Nasrallah would have you believe.

Chas said...

Good night all
I am so tired, but I am going to bed for the first time since the 48 hr halt with real hope in my heart.
I leave you with one thought for my Leabanese friends .. one day, I believe you will look back at this with real pride for what you government has achieved in the last week.
Your opponents thought they were on your knees and they would settle for woefully one sided agreement. They did not .. they forced the US and Israel to retreat diplomatically and wrestled from them a much better resolution. It may not seem so now, but this is no small thing.
Your steadfastness and integrity in the face of aggression will have earned the respect of many.
Not all wars are won on the battlefield.

Goodnight all, and peace.

Chas

stateroom said...

The range of sexual abuse includes reported rapes of young Congolese girls by U.N. troops; an Internet pedophile ring run from Congo by Didier Bourguet, a senior U.N. official from France; a colonel from South Africa accused of molesting his teenage male translators; and estimates of hundreds of underage girls having babies fathered by U.N. soldiers who have been able to simply leave their children and their crimes behind.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/UnitedNations/story?id=489306&page=1

Boris the Bullet Dodger said...

I am hopeful that this madness can end.

Peace,
Boris

The Middle East News Addict said...

This agreement unfortunately will not last longer than Olmert's term valued at about 3-4 months. If the resolution does not call for the immediate unconditional release of the Israeli soldiers; anyone who knows anything about Israeli politics knows that the Israelis will boot him out and bring someone who to them "will finish the job". That is the way it was after the Oslo accords when Netanyahu came to power. That is the way Sharon came to power after Barak. Whoever will be next will be ruthless because this will seem as a Hezbollah victory; something Israelis won't have and no matter what the costs are for both Israel and Lebanon.

FGA said...

News Addict,

The difference this time is that Israel severly miscalculated its risk and mismanaged the war. They failed to score a win, and have appeared vulnerable for the first time ever. Poltically they are very weak and they somehow managed to loose the PR war against a "terrorist" organization! Go figure!

-FGA

3li- said...

Raja-

Relax man. Don't misunderstand me. I am from the South, and I have family, relatives and property (without going into specifics) that have all been affected. I am the last person who wishes for anymore of this nonsense.

I am only pointing to the fact that this is a one-sided resolution that distorts or simply ignores the real issues, and pretty much hands Israel a diplomatic victory where, in essence, she should have been reprimanded and sanctioned for its criminal action against Lebanon and its civilians.

What? I can't even bemoan this absurdity without you guys jumping on me?

Loli-

I just want plain simple fairness. Criticize HA, but also criticize Israel. Is that too much? How can the weak and powerless have any faith in the UN after such a joke of a resolution?

Anyhow. It is for the Lebanese government to accept. I just hope we have all learned from this lesson, if it really is over.

Ultimately, the whole region will not know real peace so long as the Israeli-Palestinian issue is still not resolved. Judging from the way Israel got treated at the UN and the way the US shields and safeguards it, Israel will have learned nothing. This bodes ominously for the Palestinians.

Pasdutout said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Pasdutout said...

Assuming Israel is interested in nothing more than a stable, quiet border, The agreement entirely depends on the ability of the LAF and the U.N. to keep the Peace in southern Lebanon.

Israel's failure to disarm Hizbullah, however, bodes ill for the future: The UN's record as peacekeepers is a dismal one: They have consistently failed in cases where one side was interested in continuing the struggle The classic examples are somalia, Bosnia and, closer to Lebanon, Sinai).

Ultimately, therefore, I believe it will fall to the Lebanese people to decide if they want to confront Hizbullah politically, or go through this again in a few years.

Ros said...

“The resolution is not a chapter seven, but it is 'very, very strongly worded' and clearly mandated”

Team America, Hans to Kim

“Or else we will be very, very angry with you, and we will write you a letter telling you how angry wie are.” And then Kim dropped him in with the sharks.

And then Iran’s shark will eat everyone.

Kofi reporting to UN April 2006-08-12

64. I was concerned when I was informed in February 2006 of an incident, in which arms destined for Hizbollah had been transferred from the Syrian Arab Republic into Lebanon. Twelve trucks carrying ammunitions and weapons of various kinds, including Katyusha rockets, crossed the border from the Syrian Arab Republic. Discovered a few days later at a checkpoint inside Lebanon, the trucks were allowed to continue their journey towards their destination in south Lebanon. A statement released by the Lebanese Armed Forces following the incident on 6 February 2006 indicated that transportation and storage of ammunition belonging to the "resistance", once inside Lebanon, were subject to the ministerial policy statement of the current Lebanese Government, which considered the "resistance" to be legitimate. As the Government of Lebanon has confirmed, the Lebanese Armed Forces has thus not been authorized to prevent further movement of the ammunitions, which had been a common practice for more than 15 years. Hizbollah publicly confirmed that the arms were destined for the group. The Government of Lebanon and the Lebanese Army Command have informed my Special Envoy that further cases of arms transfers would be subject to the direct decision of Prime Minister Seniora and that no further transfers of ammunitions and weapons have occurred since this incident. “

He was concerned, he presumably wrote a stern letter, and the Government said we won’t do it again. Hysterical. But when he eventually did manage to get angry, he got angry with Israel.

And when Mr Seniora says they will disarm Hizbollah, the policy on the “legitimate “ “resistance” will be.

Meanwhile big believers in peace like the ex Arab League Ambassador to the UK is triumphantly declaring Israel done in and now the Arab states know they can destroy it they will. And if the USA intervenes, well they will be destroyed to.

Excuse me, but it is bloody madness to think that the Lebanese Government or Hizbollah will take any notice of another mob of UN boys without a chapter 7

Loli said...

al ghadab,

You are right. Both should be criticized, for different reasons, but who said life was fair? Unfortunately this is the story of the world. We have to pick the least painful solution.

Even if Israel was not criticized for the destruction and displacement it inflicted on us, I am convinced they have learned a good lesson. HA too. Next time Israel feels like solving a problem, if any, it will definitely think twice and hopefully resort to diplomacy. HA should no longer have a military wing.

We should start thinking of the future, and mainly educate these children that are fed thoughts of hatred. Iran should not donate millions for schools and hospitals in Lebanon, in order to win the Shia's loyalty. This is our government's job. If the Arab world and the West care about a more stable region, and I am convinced they do, except for Assad, they will have to empower our gov to do the following:

1- train and arm the LAF properly to ensure stability, safety and sovereignty on the Lebanese soil, and prevent any weapon smuggling at the Lebanese/Syrian border.

2- Rebuild the South so that the displaced population can find a new home, and not some kind of camp or temporary collective solution. We don't want them to feel like refugees.

3- Offer good social services to the people, and in particular the Shiaa who have for the longest time suffered from economical and social hardships. This will ensure less vulnerability of the people to foreign schemes (like Iran's).

4- Solve the Palestinian problem on our soil. I think they should be given the nationality, and helped to find jobs. Their children should be integrated in our schools and society, without any discrimination.

5- Start negotiation process with Israel for some sort of peace treaty that will secure our country against future aggressions.

As for the Isreali/Palestinian problem, it should be solved too, by all means. But this is up to Isreal, not Lebanon.

Ros said...

“Next time Israel feels like solving a problem, if any, it will definitely think twice and hopefully resort to diplomacy.’

Such steadfast head in the sand attitudes deserve to have the item reported. A url obviously wouldn’t do it as the Lebanese have displayed a remarkable aptitude for self deception.

Letter dated 2 April 2002 from the Permanent Representative of Israel to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General


I wish to draw your attention to the most recent dangerous incidents that have occurred along Israel's northern border.
This afternoon, Hizbullah terrorists launched mortar, anti-tank and anti-aircraft fire from southern Lebanon at three Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) positions in the Mount Dov region. There were no casualties. This attack represents the fourth attack launched against Israel from Lebanon in as many days…April 2002.
Last night, Hizbullah terrorists fired at least one 107 mm Katyusha rocket at a civilian target in the Galilee region of northern Israel. The rocket landed just north of the Israeli city of Kiryat Shmona, a city that has often been a favoured target of Hizbullah rockets. Residents reported hearing two powerful explosions that spread terror throughout the area. No casualties were reported.
This attack follows an attempted infiltration into the Western Galilee from Lebanon late Sunday evening, 31 March 2002. Under cover of darkness, four terrorists approached the security fence from the Lebanese side of the border and opened fire with rocket propelled grenades and automatic rifles at Israeli soldiers near Moshav Zar'it. This attack took place not far from where terrorists crossed the Lebanese border and killed six Israeli civilians on 12 March, in an incident referred to in my letter dated 21 March 2002 (A/56/884-S/2002/301).

On Saturday, 30 March 2002, in an unprovoked attack, Hizbullah terrorists opened fire on Israeli positions in the Mount Dov region. In the afternoon hours, dozens of mortar rounds and anti-tank missiles were fired from Lebanon at six IDF outposts on the Israeli side of the Blue Line. Although no casualties were reported, hundreds of visitors had to be evacuated from the area as the IDF responded to Hizbullah's aggression. In a statement broadcast on Hizbullah's Al-Manar television station, the organization announced that the attack was part of its support of the Palestinians….

These worrisome developments come on the heels of several other recent attacks perpetrated by Hizbullah that were referred to in my letter dated 21 March 2002 (A/56/884-S/2002/301). Earlier Hizbullah attacks were detailed in my letters dated 24 January 2002 (A/56/793-S/2002/115) and 17 January 2002 (A/56/778-S/2002/79), and a spate of other attacks that were detailed in my letters dated 24 October 2001 (A/56/507-S/2001/1012), 5 October 2001 (A/56/443-S/2001/942), 6 July 2001 (A/56/161-S/2001/673), 16 April 2001 (S/2001/367), 16 February 2001 (A/55/792-S/2001/142), 6 February 2001 (A/55/767-S/2001/111), 26 November 2000 (S/2000/1121), 23 October 2000 (S/2000/1011), 19 October 2000 (S/2000/1002) and 7 October 2000 (S/2000/969)….

And

It should be emphasized that Hizbullah's continuing illegal operations against Israel are possible not only because of Lebanon's support and complicity, but also due to the financial, political and logistical assistance provided by the Governments of Syria and Iran, both of which are countries with lengthy and well-known records of support for terrorist activities.
So what do you reckon Loli?

And what would be the best guess as to what the UN did.


Well this is reported by Israel in its diplomatic attempt to get the UN to do something about Israel being attacked on a regular basis.

In his statement to the Security Council yesterday, the Secretary-General made the following comments in reference to recent attacks emanating from Lebanese territory:

"There have also been worrying developments along the Blue Line. On two occasions there have been attacks from the Lebanese side of the Blue Line. First, there was a serious violation of the Blue Line by Hezbollah, which launched mortars and rockets against the Sha'ba farms area.

And I have every confidence that was the end of it for that incompetent git.

So, when your people are being killed, use diplomacy and the UN to stop it.

Ha Ha Ha

Ergotelina said...

Israel responded to an unprovoked attack by Hizbullah, right? Wrong

The assault on Lebanon was premeditated - the soldiers' capture simply provided the excuse. It was also unnecessary

George Monbiot
Tuesday August 8, 2006
The Guardian

mazdoc said...

hi! I m from greece and the only thing I can say, the only thing that comes out of my mouth is "sorry"... I' m sorry for all these that happens in Lebanon. (by the way I'm trying to call a friend and his family that lives there and is imposible. I don't know if they re ok , how they re doing...) I don't know.... I think all the greeqs are feeling sorry for what happens in Lebanon but I think that our goverment even if they like lebanese people they are traped in europian eunion's desisions... But here in greece we all watch the news everyday with sympathy for Lebanon and anger for Israel... -we never liked Israel!...

I hope that this tragedy will end soon and you ll get back your life...

Omer (israeli) said...

Al ghad,
You are wrong, this resolution is a win for HA:
1. The peace force is not a chapter 7 and cannot fight HA if they decide to arm or attack.
2. There will be no body that will be incharge of stop weapon smuggle from syria border.
3. There will be no body to inforce 1559
4. The 2 soldier "should" be realsed, but who and how are not metion.
5. Kofi anan is in charge of offring a solution for shebba farms within a month of withdrawl.
6. "stop of aggression": protects HA as much as Israel. But leaves everyside, including HA to self defend (Like killing and capturing soldiers, will next time be called "self defence").

Do you really belive that HA would agree with any resolution. If HA doesn't like the resolution, it can blow it all a way with one katyusha

Lirun said...

when olmert was voted in i was very hopeful that israel had matured one step further and that "an ordinary citizen" was now able to refresh our ranks and run our affairs..

however - as history now has it.. olmert gave as an omlette in the face..

he scrambled in every front.. whether against the settlers when he removed outposts or in fighting the HA..

i am vastly disappointed and hurt by the pain his failed tactics have caused my entire region..

a ceasefire has indeed been declared a requirement of the UN but i hope the implementation doesnt get cocked up..

we have a chance here guys..

lets not waste it..

wishing us all peace soon..

lirun
barcelona
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
nice plan loli..

Omer (israeli) said...

ergo te lina,
To a certain extent the artical is right, thou not balanced. The details on Oct 2000 might be true. But the attacks after that were HEZ intiated. If israel wanted war, it would have done so in 2003. The diffrence is that Israel got fed up with HEZ provocations this time around.

There deeds were cosidered pure black mail by 100% of israeli. Think about the message you give if you make a prisinors trade. And this is the message: Everytime you want something, justly or not, you just have to attack us. And "poof" you get everything you want. You want prisinors = kidnap. You want land = kidnap. you want haifa? = kidnap. And i thought you are for negotiaton?

The diffrence between israels prisinors and HA prisioners, that Israel caught all of them during war time (we added 18 HA prisioners since jul 12 attacks), while HA capture was a planned provocation, and had no other reason then black mail. Some of the prisioners on israel side were even caught inside israel after murdering civilians.

The drones, are indeed violation of air space (BTW 1701 says nothing about them- and i guess they will continue). But on the other hand their only work is to spy on an organiztion witch is bent on the destruction of israel (therefore will probely consider "self defence" by resolution 1701). Non of you really grasped 1701, it solves nothing, just postpond the next clash.

While its true that HA can't defeat Israel on its own territory, but is a stragicial menace. If iran or syria attacks, The HA will join and bomb north of israel. That is one of the consqances of 1701.
About the prisionrs, they are trialed as much as i know. And there is no-peace, only cease-fire, Why should isreal realese them? For peace both prisioners and Sheeba farms will be delt. But how can you make peace with the goverment of lebanon if they can't control HA, and they act independetly. I think israel want's to strengthen the goverment and not HA, that why these issues are postpond, so it doesnt strengthen HA.

Lirun said...

omer

i think it is naive to expect that a katyusha will never land again in the immediate future..

however i hope we have learned that a measured response whereby we engage the international community better is a good way to go..

we have soo much to learn from these events that it is unbelievable..

i have to add that while i am ashamed of my leaders i am enamoured by my soldiers that had no hesitation to endanger themselves for my safety..

wishing this never recurs

lirun
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
may our soldiers become as active as those at buckingham ;)

Ergotelina said...

Mazdoc said we never liked Israel

Ahura Mazda...does Zaratustra have
the same opinion to you?...


i am a Greek..
i like Israel,i like Lebanon
Palestine...and i wish all the world
to get peace..

Blogging and talking
with other people
brings the peace more close..

Shalom..

ronen said...

Hi all,
From my 36 years of living in Israel I can tell you one thing.
This cease-fire won't lead to any solution. The interest of Iran&Syriya is to keep Hezbollah armed and fighting against Israel. From my experience the history would repeat itself and Lebanon could not rehabilitate itself on the coming years because we would need again to go and attack hezbollah- if not in the coming months then on one two or three years from now.
I want peace as much as you all want. However, this cease-fire will lead in the future to beager tragedy for Lebanon.
You must understand that we should get rid of hezbollah at the region and I don't care whether they'll remain a political party in Lebanon, what I do care is that they should be venished as a military organisation. This would not be achieved without fighting them and strike them in their villeges, bases and offices.
You can be happy by the passing of the current UN resolution, but this is a present happines which will lead to a further tragedy for Lebanon which will step forward into becoming an Iranian nation lead by Hezbollah.
I can become very popular by stating at this blogg that this resolution put hope and will end the war, but as a realistic person I'm telling you that this is not a solution nor to the Israelies neither to the Lebanese people.
Let IDF finish the job otherwise we all be sorry for that.
If you think that 15,000 soldiers from other nations has the care to keep Hezbollah from attaking Israel- you are mistaken. Israel can just relly upon itself on this metter. Syriya & Iran won't give up the option of destroy Israel and would lead the whole area to much greater conflict.
You think the destruction in Lebanon at present is the worth thing you've ever seen- wait for the next round when all Lebanon would become a military base of the Iranians and not just the south of Lebanon.
We missed so many opportunities at the past to fight affactivelly against Hezbollah just because of hipocritic diplomatic solutions.
You can put here a different views and I respect that, but you would see on the coming years who is wright and who is wrong.
I wish from the bottom of my hart that I'm the one who will wrong.

Muxecoid said...

It's right resolution, indeed, but noone really cares about UNSC resolutions. Most of the resolutions were not implemented in real. UNO is bullshit.

Ergotelina said...

Omer...is that an israeli name?..

Are you Arab from Isreal?...

Thank you for responding to me...

i d like to hear a lebanese opinion
too

:)

Lirun said...

you´re all correct.. UN resolutions mean nothing.. the question is what to we - the people of the middle east - want.. what are we seeking and how do we want our future to be..

so you can sit at your computer all you like and tell me how this is all meaningless or you can go out and truly express your desire for peace to work..

if you feel that it is politically antisocial you can send an email or write a letter or start yet another blog.. but dont just sit there and complain and say it wont work even though you want it.. dont tell me how wrong you hope you are.. instead go out and support what you think is right!!

we are facin a historical moment.. ok ok.. we are facing our computer screens at the time of a historical moment (that is more accurate) but we all are just as much to blame if it doesnt unfold as we want it to..

speak up people.. today is only here once..

wishing us all peace and a bit more proactivity

lirun
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
we can reach it if we try

mazdoc said...

ergo you can ask zaratustra for his opinion but anyway I think he has the same opinion!
What ahura mazda means?
I also want peace but I can't close my eyes...

Omer (israeli) said...

ergo te lina,

Omer is an israeli name, its from the (hebrew) bible = "pile of wheat". Thou it may sound strange to you, jews were an agriculture reliigon in biblical times.
We even have a hoilday called: "Lag baomer" which histroically was the time to crop the wheat.

The Arabs have a similar name: "Omar", there is no "e" in arabic,

Lirun said...

my name is israeli also

it has two parts

li - my and run (pronounced like running) which is a hebrew word for a particular kind of happiness that involves song..

in hebrew we have many many words that describe happiness and different kinds that are inspired in different ways.. most of these words are considered a bit biblical and the equivalent of our "shakespaerean".. i bet we have as many words for happiness as the eskimos have for snow.. if not more.. its a very important part of our culture..

they are used mostly in names - i hope one day their colloquial use is revived.. and their meanings become well known as we convert from having the reputation of a warrior nation and the world begins to know how much happiness we foster inside..

Yohay Elam said...

Lets hope that the ceasefire will be implemented soon. I had enough from this war.

In Israel, a harsh argument begins now between the right wing politicians who oppose the UN resolution and the others who support it.

Ergotelina said...

lirun,omer

1.Are there modernized
Rabbines and Mulahs
to make a common
demonstration-prayer for peace?
....

Or there is no dialog
between the two religions
that share the same heritage
of Old Testament?...




@mazdoc the name you have
derives of

Ahura Mazda is the Avestan language name for an exalted divinity of ancient proto-Indo-Iranian religion that was subsequently declared by Zarathustra (Zoroaster) to be the one uncreated creator of all (God).

Omer (israeli) said...

ergo te lina,
There was a soliderity betwwen jews, christian and muslim religious figures just a month ago.
For the first time in history all three religions agreed:
To stop the "Homo-lesbaian" parade from happening in jerusalem. They tried to pressure the goverment to stop it.

Thou, it was sone out of love, as for mutual intrests. But on the way aolt of understanding was produced, ill try find you the artical.

Omer (israeli) said...

fix last sentance

"Thou, it was not out of love..."

mazdoc said...

Ouaou ergo i'm impressed!!! I always thought it was just a nick name! Anyway thanks a lot for giving me these informations! (I will really surprise zaratustra -the guy I share my blog ergo!)

Itai said...

Nasrallah will probably crawl out of his hole in a week or two and declare victory over the rubble of Tyre or Bint Jbeil. He will explain that the Jihad is worth it. That destroying a few tanks, killing a few soldiers and firing rockets at Haifa was worth the catastrophy he brought on Lebanon and as long as the Lebanese applaud such people they'll keep watching their country destroyed every decade or so, I can't change that, it's up to the Lebanese. Obviously Lebanon has an educated middle class, I saw interviews on CNN with Lebanese who talk and think like New Yorkers so I can't really comprehend how you let your country be lead by a lunatic. Maybe you should give the Shiaites an autonomy in the south or something, i don't know.

FGA Read the resolution again, the security council voted unanimously on it and placed the blame on Hezbollah. In the media bubble you see all those heart breaking images and hear reporters blame Israel but that doesn't really matter, the world found Hezbollah guilty. Maybe Israel could have handled Hezbollah better in the military perspective, if this thing will happen again we're all going to find out how.

Chas Won't the Lebanese condemn anyone who accepts Israeli help as a traitor? The best thing Israel can do is stay out of Lebanon's affairs until there's a peace agreement.
It's sad but I think waving the big stick is the only thing everyone understands. People can try to interpret 1701 in many ways and I'm not sure whether the new UNIFIL is going to be effective, whether the weapons ambargo will be imposed or if the LAF will do its job.
So the memory of the big stick is the one thing that remains and we all have to hope that it would prevent future conflicts.

Omer (israeli) said...

Lahoud just said, that HA will not stop fighting until: mine maps, shebba farms and prisioner issue is settled.
If thats true its a bad sign for both israel and lebanon.
While i do belive these issues should be settled, i don't belive israel needs to settle them with HA, but with the Lebanese goverment.

ronen said...

Dear Liona,
I really respect your point of view but I disagree with you as to the option of trusting Hezbollah.
You should fight terrorist organisation and history prove us that Hezbollah repeat his violence against Israel.
As I said before, it's not just Israel interest of demolish Hezbollah but also the interest of Lebanon which doesn't want to become an Iranian nation.
You people in Lebanon doesn't have the power and energy to get rid of those terrorists and this is the tragic thing.
If we withdraw now from Lebanon without complete the job you will be sorry for that in the future.
You know, there was a time when I was a child that my father took me to see Lebanese vileges inside south Lebanon across the burder.
There were good times when Iran didn't have the interest of destroy Israel.
Those days I can't go inside lebanon but I do feel sympathy for the lebanese people. It's not your fault. It's not actually in your hands to prevail Hezbollah. This organisation is wise and smart enough in building his army but is not smart enough to disarm itself and to stop aggression against Israel. We don't care about sheeba farms. It is said that it actually belongs to syria- we really don't care. However, bear in mind that those frams are just an excuse to the the Hezbollah agression. So in the future there would be another excuse.
We want peace and I wish you all the best.
By the way, where do you live in Lebanon?

Lirun said...

its amazing how quickly a small cloud can cover the vast blue of the skies

wishing us all peace soon

lirun
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
needing it more than ever

Ergotelina said...

@Lirun ...News for you!...

i took it from http://hellenic-reporter.blogspot.com/


Wednesday, August 9th, 2006
Fmr. Israeli Air Force Captain Reports Israeli Pilots Deliberately Missing Targets Over Concerns of Civilian Casualties

FGA said...

Omer, no need to worry. The only thing Lahoud needs to be concerned with is keeping his ass out of jail. Our leader has been and will remain PM Siniora...

FGA

Lirun said...

shalom ergo te lina

i read the article..

it is impossible for me to tell if they are right or wrong but i am proud of them for being true to their morals..

this is for me the essence of the true israeli soldier - someone who is self questionning and compassionate..

i have added their organisation to www.emspeace.blogspot.com

wishing us all peace soon..

cheers ergo

lirun
from telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
even in the darkest places one can find light

Ergotelina said...

@Lirun

i wonder if there is a Hezbullah

Katyusha-shooter that has refused

to bomb
because he concerns

on human casualties..............
..................................

Lirun said...

hahahahahhahahahahahahah

that is hilarious!!!

that would make a great comedy show - i dont think they would be in the HA if they were against the idea ;)

but it would be fascinated to hear otherwise..

in any event you have made me laugh from the depths of my stomach - god bless you

lirun
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
laughing is good for peace

sam of chayyah said...

Hey Omer,

Iknow this is late but I was reading your comments to me. Something else, why aint all Israelis peaceful like you?. We need people with your attitude in ME. LEt me tell you something, I live in Chayyah,the place were the massacre happened. the two buildings that were destroyed along with the area that was hit are purely civilians. There were no HA or targets. To my humble knowledge of Military warefare, the two bombs that were dropped are JDAM class, GBU 28 or higher calibre which means that they are 99.99% accurate. This means that the 100 + civilians were targeted. It is common sense in Lebanon that Chayyah is not a HA area.In fact it is the only shi'a area that is anti HA. Anyhow,you are inIsrael are hostages of a non competitive government. The IDF sold this war to the government, Peretz and Olmert bought and we,both, Israelis and Lebanese lost. Omer, you have the right to defend Israel and the IDF, but I assure you that a lot of the news you read in Israel is misleading too. I read Haaretz, Yediouth, Maariv, and Debka. I find a lot of unreal stories. For on instance, the operation in Tyre, you stated it wrong and most of arabic media stated it wrong too. Let me tell you the real story of the operation. The commandos were thirteen not eight. They came to Lebanon by sea. Those guys were usinf lebanses army outfit so when they are moving around the fields to get to the targeted building they don't look suspicious. At the time theyentered the street were the targetted building was located, there was a lebanese army oficer and one of his soldiers walking. the army officer saw the commandos who were moving in patrol formation. One of the commandos has an outfit of Lebanese Army first leutanant and the real Lebanese officer knows all the leutants in Tyre( Tyre is not a huge city and the Lebanese Army there are not more than 200 Soldiers so lieutenants are minority). At this Point, the Officer and the other soldier started firning. SInce the operation was compromised IAF and appchi helicopters interfered. The Fighter in the targeted appartment interfered too. The IDF had the injuries omer stated, and the commandos were rescued. After the Commandos were extracted, Appache destroyed the appartment were the fighters were. omer, all I wanna tell you is that you as well as all other arabs are misguided by this war. The only thing that resulted out of this war is that you lost a real partner in peace,ie, Lebanon. we are the closest to your culture, yet we suffered enouhg of you military agression so that we wish there ahigh wall that would seperate us from you forever, so we can live in peace. Still it seems that you are a good person. Please next elections you have don't vote for the righ or middle, choose left, your life would be better.

Lirun said...

sam

omer is not the only peaceful israeli..

there are many..

i dont wish for a wall between us.. i think a psychological wall has existed for too long.. this very wall has allowed both sides to ignore suffering on the other and act as if we were not neighbours but rather far away lands that existed in some other dimensions..

if this wall was removed and we finally acknowledged how significant the other is to our very existence perhaps then we could in fact live in peace instead of constantly sacrificing eachother´s security for are own tactical interests..

wishing you and us peace soon

lirun
from telaviv israel
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
tunnels of friendship

Lirun said...

by the way thank you for providing your take on the operation

i must agree with you that the misinformation is rampant.. the military effort by both sides has three tiers: combat.. propaganda and the drafting of some crazy version of history that sits somewhere in the imagination of officers

Omer (israeli) said...

Sam,
About what happened in Tyre,
I didn't say it before, But i actually know someone who participated in this operation (actually someone who knows someone). There were a couple of forces as well, each with diffrent missions.

So i personaly know that HA are Lying about what REALLY happened there. Everything will clear up, after the "fog of war" disappears.

Omer (israeli) said...

Sam,
But tyre is not the only place. We have 2 diffrent versions of everything, from each side.
So hard to tell sh*t from propoganda.

Omer (israeli) said...

About propoganda,
For instance, IDF claimed victory in Bint jabel, while from prespective its clear we in Israel were "Sold out".

But dear Hassan is not clean either. The most note worty pice of propoganda was the sinking of 3 wars ships. The first did get hit. The names of the four dead were published in isreal the same night.
But the 2 others? I said before Israel is not capable of hiding its dead for long. And indeed doesn't, this everyone in Israel knows for sure.

sam of chayyah said...

To lirun, maybe you are right. The problem is that in this part in the world Israel is represented through its military. I do understand that there's are security problems and all the realted issues that we read and hear from the media.Maybe the Israelis who want peace are majority,maybe they represent 100 % of I sraeli population. Still, the only sound that comes to Lebanon from Israel is the sound of F-16 fighters. I don't wanna tell you about the after math of this sound, I am sure that you served in IDF or IAF and you know what J Dams, M-26, or other ammuniton can do. I also understand that Katyosha rockets have their own voice and their own after math. but the scale of destructiont that we face here is multiples of what you have in Israel. Don't blame for wishing the wall, at least, for the time being. After all, I am a human who has feeling, and believe some times anger is dominant over all other forms of feelings. I don't know if you are watching non-Israeli news,but if you do you will understand my anger as much as I understand yours.Two days ago, we had a funeral of 49 civilians mostly kids in our town so you know how intensified these feelings get. We are both humans and we both have the right to have feelings right?!

The Middle East News Addict said...

To fgh

If this is the way you think, I think we should all keep track of this blog because we will meet here again in a few months time discussing "the situation". Of course by then Israel will probably be less trusting of the UN as Nasrallah will portray this as victory (victory - the utter devastation of one's own country. Source: Hezbollah twisted dictionary). I hope to god that Lebanon will take this opportunity to reign in its sovereignty or we'll be here again with much more devastating reactions. As for the so called diplomatic victory for Hezbollah, let's examine that:

The resolution calls for the unconditional release of the Israeli soldiers with no connection to the Lebanese prisoners problem.

The resolution puts the blame squarely in Hezbollah's hands.

The resolution calls on Israel to halt all OFFENSIVE operations. This means that if Hezbollah fires again, Israel may retaliate with a DEFENCIEVE reaction. Now this is where everything gets tricky and it is an Israeli diplomatic achievment - For the Israelis, this whole war was DEFENCIEVE!

so I hope you do not get your views from Hezbollah for then we are all doomed.

sam of chayyah said...

To omer,
It is not the propaganda that I care for. In my point of view, this war didn't achieve its declared target. In other words it achieved nothing but killing peopple on both sides, maybe different scale but death is the result. Omer, this is the only war that I believe who ever wins would be very ashamed of declaring victory. You can't declare victory that is achieved by killing and destroying civilians and their property. I am not trying to point fingers here. but if you re-read the resolution. No body won but death. You can count hundrads of winning battles Israel had in this war, Ha,Maybe can do the same, but at the end what was achieved?. simply nothings... More hatred towards I srael.. more hatred towards shii's in Lebanon... Really I can't think of anything that was achieved other than destructuion, blood and hatred. I am really haunted by images and sounds of explosions and i always wonder what would result from these sounds other than hatred, fear and anger. Of courese, you have these feelings if you survive the strike. I know it is the same on the other side right?!!!. I don't know man, every time I hear that Israel is striking or even when you get your share of Katyosha, I look at my 9 months daughter's face and wonder how would those who are being shelled feel when they look at their sons or daughters faces. I had this feeling when chayyah was bombed and I hope nobody gets it.....

Be safe and breach for peace. This is, what this area needs.I belive that the F-16 and the Katyosha are not gonna solve the issue

Omer (israeli) said...

Sam,
Your pain is understandble. I wish it never happened the way it did. I hope cease fire will come soon. And turn one day into peace. We in Israel, like you, are all effected from this war.

BTW did you catch Nasrallah latest speach?
The most noteable thing for me was: "Its not over" (after the cease fire, that is). Why can't he let us leave in peace?

No suprise, thou.

sam of chayyah said...

To Omer,
I wish you can ask him this for me

Omer (israeli) said...

SAM,

"No body won but death"

I agree with you. And i wish you didn't have to go throght this. Goes the same for families in the north of Israel. There is alot of pain and anger.
Israel is in the situation for 60 years. I grew up on it, we are a whole nation of war traumitized.

As for propoganda, well that mainly a hobby. I read AL-jazeera, Daily satr (lebanon), Lebanon times, Israeli and foreign press. DEBKA is quite an intresting source thou, What you think of it?

sam of chayyah said...

Debka is good because it is fast in posting the news.

Good night everybody hope we wake up with better news

tears for lebanon said...

Middle East News Addict

In response to this resolution, I am glad that it is has passed in the UN, but only for the reason to prevent further deaths immediately.

If there is going to be a lasting peace as a result of this resolution then the issues of prisoner exchange must be addressed,it is not fair, in my opinion, that only the Israeli prisoners were outlined. There must be concise timetables for the handing over of the shebaa farms and for the seven points of the Seniora plan.

What I find confusing, and maybe someone can explain this to me...I just heard on my US news that Israel has stated that Monday at 7:00 am would be an appropriate time to implement this 1701 resolution, however my news also reports that Israel states intention of increasing ground forces 'inside' Lebanon three fold.
Is this true? Why would Israel send more forces into Lebanon now when they indicated that they would vote to accept this resolution tommorrow? This would certainly indicate to me that this first step in the peace process, is not going to be taken seriously by Israel if really they are going to attempt to increase their presence in numbers rather than exit as the Lebanese army and the UN deploys south. It doesn't make sense to expand the Israeli force at this time.

Please offer insight if you have some, simply stating to me that it will be done to keep Hezbollah in check until the Leb army actually gets there is a weak argument. I don't believe Israel needs to triple their presence to do this, this will only cause more 'resistance' and will also cause increased skepticism by the Lebanese for the true intentions of Israel.

Omer (israeli) said...

Why would Israel send more forces into Lebanon

As you may noticed, Israel doesn't trust the HA. If you listen to NA speech, you can tell its mutual.
Part of the deal is that HA move to the other side of the Litani. But i don't think they have the intesion to do that.

The deals says thou, that Intl. forces need to arrive before Israel retreat. That gives Israel a chance to get HA infrastructure out (since no one else will ever do it). This is what i think is happening.

But, hey, I rather have a complete cease-fire, plus it leaves the cease-fire with a sour taste.

Sadly to say, NS will continue his attacks on israel, when he sees it fit. And again another cycle...

Dam ME.

root cause said...

tears,

right or wrong, i think the reason the IDF is ramping up is because olmert is trying to save a little face by trying to take out as many HA as possible before the cease fire. afterall their goal all along was to disarm HA, which was shown to pretty much be impossible, without absolutely destoying ALL of lebanon.

just my take on this issue

praying for peace NOW

Lirun said...

Sam

i understand your anger..i however am not angry so there is no anger for you to understand..

i am sad that we havent made different choices and by we i mean everyone..

at the same nevertheless i am hopeful that we shall all learn from this and i believe that we shall work harder for peace.. at least i know that i shall

wishing us all safer times soon

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
enough already

3li- said...

Loli-

I do not have much time to blog these days, so I am sorry about the late reply.

There is a dichotomy between you and I that defines who we are and it represents itself in the way we see the conflict, Lebanon's reality and our solutions for the future.

This blog is not the format to go into such an expansive discussion, but for the sake of your last comments I will say the following:

You decry Iran’s help and see it as a sinister plot to exploit the Shia into perpetrating acts that run contrary to the Shia’s and Lebanon’s interest….but you invite the West and the Arabs to “empower” Lebanon to take care of its responsibility.

First-Recent history shows the opposite of what you say above. From whence the first bullets were fired in the Lebanese civil war, it has been the Arabs and the West who have armed, exploited, and destroyed Lebanon for their own selfish interests. The West, particularly the US, “empowers” unconditionally the country that just devastated your country. It expedited shipments of 5000 pound bombs while Lebanese civilians in the hundreds were being slaughtered in this latest conflict. It has always protected and shielded Israel from any criticism at our expense. What reasons do you have for thinking they are on your side, and for you to inviting them back in?

Without Iran’s help, militarily and economically the last three decades, Israel might still be in South Lebanon, and we may now have been battling unruly Jewish settlers who day-dream of establishing Eretz Israel on much of the Levant.

I think you sell the Shia short when you associate their economic hardships with an inability to think and understand what is in their best interest. In a sense you are saying that they are being bought, bribed or fooled into doing Iran’s bidding. The Shia, in general, maybe not be as economically prosperous as the other communities, but they have an emerging middle class that has made great strides in the last decade or so. Regardless, economic prosperity does not guarantee common sense and rational analysis. An argument can me made that a very wealthy Israel was exploited to do the US’s bidding in a war that ran contrary to its interests. The same argument can certainly be made of many factions in Lebanon, and there is ample evidence to that effect.

Any how, there is much to discuss..

Chris from lebanon said...

true and lasting peace will only become a reality for lebanon and lebanese once Hezb is completely disarmed just like all other militia did prior to this war.

As for prisoners exchange and the so called shebaa farms issues: these could've been solved thru peaceful negotiations between 2 legitimate states not thru violence coming from an unauthorized group like Hezb.

Those of you who question the UN resolution as to its bias stand in favour of Israel: we lebanese don't give a damn as long as the message gets thru Hezb that this be its last stand of violence on behalf of the lebanese people. NO MORE and ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

So if some of you still have a tase of bitterness as to this peace process...I invite you to question your real motive for peace.

The Middle East News Addict said...

To Tears for Lebanon

Just like the Israeli prisoners, the Lebanese ones have also been mentioned in the preemble but not as immediate release; but as an issue to be resolved. Perosnally I see a huge difference between the two cases. You cannot compare 2 soldiers who were abducted from the Israeli side of the border to a Lebanese like Samir Kuntar who VOLUNTARILY infiltrated Israel in Naharyia via the sea, killed a police officer, a father and his two daughters and then got caught. There is a price to pay and that is the base of a legal system as I am sure you would also agree.

However both cases of the prisoners appear in the preamble of the resolution and not in the operational part.

Finally with regards to the Sheba farms they are not Israeli but Israel will probably negotiate with whoever the UN decides is the owner of the land (Labanon\Syria). At the moment this is Syrian land according to the UN and Israel until Syria SIGNS otherwise as oppose to saying otherwise.

tears for lebanon said...

omer

You said that you don't believe that Hez will cross the river...
But don't you think that it would be best to give them the opportunity to do so and let the Lebanese army and the UN implement the resolution. The world is watching, the world is helping (by way of sending the UN with the Leb south). The Lebanese is attempting to govern their own land...all of it, it does not need the Israeli army undermining their attempts by sending increased forces at this time. It sends a very wrong message. It sends the message that 'although we say we want you, the Legitimate Lebanese Government, to govern your land...and although we say we want peace with you...we do not want to leave your land and we want to continue to do as we please...no matter what resolutuon we agree to.' It is an incredibly stupid decision by Israel to send more forces into Lebanon at this time.
No one is wearing rose colored glasses, no one is trusting anyone at this time, nor do they (either side) have reason to do so. The actions of Israel of increasing forces at this time is just cause for increased mistrust.

Root Cause

I agree with your assessment...I was just hoping that there was a better reason that I have not thought of.

tears for lebanon said...

Midle east News Addict

Thanks for your response. What about the 18 soldiers caught during the last month? What about those? You dont think that there should be negiotiations for their release as well? Should they not be handed over to the Lebanese government to decide their fate?

What is your opinion for the reason as to why Israel is increasing their forces inside Lebanon at this time? I really want to hear your viewpoint.

Chris from lebanon said...

al-ghada

We don't want Iran's help nor Syria's. They sell hatred, frustration and fanatism.

We want peace with all our neighbors. Arab and palestenian cause are the result of the arabs own culture which is very tribal and dominated by treasion (coming from leaders) all accross history.

Arabs leaders are known to be for sale. Thats why we are still stuck with this problem and we all take out on Israel.

Lirun said...

in relation to the prisoner exchange i would like for it to happen as follows.

Excuse me for any perception of bias.. but i think this is workable..

all prisoners be exchanged immediately into the custody of their country of origin on the basis that kuntar be judged under lebanese law as if his offences were committed on lebanese soil..

i think the morality and law of his own country should apply.. let us give the lebanese justice system a chance to demonstrate its principles..

wishing peace

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
everything can be negotiated

Chris from lebanon said...

Lirun

I agree with your opinion.

We shld call this criminals (coming from Israel) against prisoners exchange. I think that is a more faithful portrait of the situation.

Omer (israeli) said...

Al-ghad,
"Without Iran’s help, militarily and economically the last three decades, Israel might still be in South Lebanon,"

And why did enter south lebanon in the first place? It was used as a base to attack Israel. BTW, do you agree with ahminjad plan for the ME?

Tears fo lebanon,
After years of war, Israel lost all dilussion. It won't be over till HA says it over. After the cease-fire, Israel wont be the one to attack posts or kidnapp soldiers.
I understand it easy to talk. I also know you have no idea, how it is like living with constent genocidel threats from verious leaders. What did you think? We take it as a peace jesture?
Israel retreated from Lebanon, there some minor issues to settle (Really, compared to israel other problems, Lebanon Govt. is minor). Its only 38SQKM, for heaven sake?!?

But these morons have to attack, why? Why dont they attack syria which holds dozens of lebanese in jails? Why us? you all know the answer, i belive.

The same you dont want your life to be threatend, we dont want it either.
Nasrallah said himself, that it is not over. Can you understand at least why no-one in israel likes HA?

As for cease fire, it should have been with better taste, Thats another one of Olmert f*ck ups.

Omer (israeli) said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Omer (israeli) said...

Dani Yetom, an Israeli parlimen member from the "Avoda" party (Its the same party as Amir Peretz). He was also head of the Israeli Mossad for many years.
He told the press today that the expansion of the militiry campain is a waste of life. And that Israel should have stoped its campgain when the Cease fire was accepected by Lebanon.

At least someone has some sense.

Omer (israeli) said...

About the cease-fire:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/92BF797F-68AA-4EEA-AD4E-E621389FB813.htm

The Middle East News Addict said...

Your sources appear to be better than mine. I do not understand what 18 soldiers are you talking of? So far no Israeli kidnapees have been reported in the fighting. If you are refering ot the Hezbollah fighters caught by Israel (such as the one in the video they released) then I think they can be released. There is no need for Israel to hold them to prove its point that HZ started it all. They are POWs, not like Kuntar.

As for the Israeli offenisve before the ceasefire, it is a well knnown fact that the Israelis do not trust the UN and have probably came up with this plan about two weeks ago when no end was in sight. The ceasefire enters its validity on Monday at 7 am... I hope it will last

Chas said...

Peace looks possible

Good luck and best wishes to you all

Chas

Ergotelina said...

For an agreement with Nasrallah
one should know his secrets
and his profile.

"Arab World Finds Icon
in Leader of Hezbollah"

Neil MacFarquhar
The New York Times
Monday, August 7, 2006

he also — very unusually — cracks jokes.

Prof. Nizar Hamzeh, who teaches international relations at the American University of Kuwait and has written a book on Hezbollah, recalled a Nasrallah speech from last year, given while Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was in the region. A helicopter happened to clatter overhead at some point while he was criticizing United States meddling, and the sheik quipped, “You might be able to catch a glimpse of her now; I hope she sees us as well.” The crowd roared.

He has never pushed hard-line Islamic rules like veils for women in the neighborhoods that Hezbollah controls, which analysts attribute to his exposure to many of Lebanon’s 17 sects.

Born in 1960 in Beirut, Sheik Nasrallah grew up in the Karanteena district of eastern Beirut, a mixed neighborhood of impoverished Christian Armenians, Druse, Palestinians and Shiites.

His father had a small vegetable stand, but the 1975 eruption of the civil war forced the family to flee to their native southern village.

Ergotelina said...

Is that true what i heard...

cease-fire!

from 8 am today morning?...

Everything under peace?....

Both sides say that have won!....

Omer (israeli) said...

ergo,

And its true. Everyone "Won"...

tony.2.tone said...

When HA emerge from this with their weapons in tact they have every right to take power in Lebanon as they are the one that sacrificed life and limb to protect this great country of ours.

While you Christians just sat on your asses and watched as your country was invaded and then come our of the shadows to snipe and complain about the increased power of HA, you Christians are pathetic.

Damn you all to eternal hell, as you do not even have the backbone to pick up a gun and face down your invader, instead you get down on your knees ready to polish the shoes of the Iraeli murderers after they have just massacred entire villages if innocent women and children, you pathetic cowards, and now you are extremely worried that HA may use their increased power from resisting for the homeland by showing you Christians as what you trully are which is cowardly lap dogs of the Iraelis.

Already in the past you did the dirty work of the Jews to protect them by forming a SLA army and torturing your onw country men at the behest of your jewish master.

Ah but thats right you were defeated by the very organization that you know are snipping it, talk about sour grapes, just dont forget that the day you were defeated is now regarded as one of the most important in the history oF lebanon which just goes to show that all Lebanon was against you and celebrated when you lost, haha.

Lastly you dare threaten a civil war if HA takes advantage of its increased power after the sacrifices for their homeland, you dare threaten a civil war when in the last civil war you were all but demolished but it was the syrians (you know the people you despise the most), that came in and fought us to spare you, this time it will be different, you will have noone to save your sorry asses when you are going to lose, and finally Lebanon can be a united country without you traiterous Christians always trying to tear it apart at the behest of your masters in Israel and the West.

So bring it on people, bring on the civil war and we can finally do waht needed to be done 20 years ago. HA

PeaceMan said...

Submission

A short fim by Theo Van Gogh. He was brutally murdered for making it by a Muslim. Van Gogh was shot several times and his throat was slashed.

As well as being stabbed twice, a knife was used to pin Death Threats to Other Non-Dhimmis to his chest.

All This...For making a Movie.

Fanatics

(some comments from youtube)
-- 3sailingdogs: islamofascism is the problem, the whole world over. they kill hindus in india, blow up buddhist statues in afghanistan, kill jews in israel, kill christians in spain. the problems are getting worse, and until your religion cleans itself up, lots more innocent muslims are going to die i'm afraid.
-- Cattttt: Notice how the most seriously hateful posts on vids like this are Muslim on Muslim? Sunni versus Shi'ite? Imagine if, say Baptists posted "you're not Christian" posts on a vid of a Methodist preacher. I am Christian, and I can post a positive comment on this. The Muslim comments are "anyone who is not the exact kind of Muslim I am, is not a Muslim."

The outcome, of course, is to kill the "non-Muslims," which include other Muslims.

Finally, a muslim with common sense

PeaceMan said...

Someone else post this. I save it but forget save site.

Anonymous said...
Here is a quick quiz on Islam.

Question: What did the Prophet Mohammed (founder of the "religion of peace") do to the poets and artists listed below on the approximate dates written by each of the names?

1. March, 624: Al-Nadr bin al-Harith
2. March, 624: Uqba bin Abu Muayt
3. March, 624: Asma bint Marwan
4. April, 624: Abu Afak
5. September, 624: Kab bin al-Ashraf
6. September(?), 624: Ibn Sunayna
7. July or August, 625: A One-eyed Bedouin
8. January 630: One of Abdullah bin Katal’s two singing-girls

Answer: He had them killed for writing poems or singing songs that displeased him.

Now please tell me how any sane or reasonable person can have one iota of respect for this "Messenger of God" and the hideous death-cult he has inflicted upon humanity?