Sunday, July 30, 2006

An Exodus of Dreams

Yet another massacre in Qana. 57 dead among them 27 children...and counting.

And if this is the story in the south, then the rest of Lebanon has many shattered dreams to gather and rebuild.

Many bygone and shattered dreams. This is what war does. Israel's war on Lebanon has impacted all of Lebanon and all of the Lebanese.

As there are fighters facing up to the Israeli war machine, there are also youth issuing their passports to head out, head out to the unknown, to save the day.

I'll recount some stories, close to home:

Ahmad was getting ready to enter college. He just finished high school. He helps in his family's business: a fashion retail store. His parents brought in a large shipment this summer; it was forecasted to be a busy summer indeed and their business was doing great. Until the war started and the country was blockaded by Israeli warships and the country isolated.

Ahmad had to do something, to help his parents pay back for the shipment purchased. He's leaving for the first time to the UAE to work at a restaurant. He needs to send the money back to his parents to save them from dire consequences.

Ahmad is leaving, when his parents never wished him to leave and could die if he does. No college for now, the dreams are postponed, put on hold.

Farah is married to someone who works in the cell phone industry. Since the cell phone transmittors were severely hit by Israeli warplanes last week, her husband is almost out of his job. No substantial income for now. Her husband renewed her passport and issued one for his baby son. She's leaving for a month to be with her family in a neighboring country, to reduce the pressure off of her husband and until he figures out a strategy to come back strong.

Abu Hassan, a grandfather, who is staying back in Lebanon, though all of his children live abroad. He's comforted by being close to where he buried his wife whom he loved and loves dearly. Now his children are calling him everyday so he could leave the country. The blockade will lead to medicine shortages and he needs his medicines on a daily basis. He's resisting, saying that it's all fine and things will get better, but his children do not want to lose yet another parent. And despite him carrying an American passport, he still did not agree to taking the ferry boat to Cyprus. But now his son is organizing his exit. I can understand his reluctance to leave; leaving behind memories and the house he raised his children in.

Abdallah lives abroad, has lived abroad for 30 years. After the Cedar Revolution he had hope for his country, a chance to retire in Lebanon, in a country that after the exit of the Syrian influence had hope of flourishing at last. He stopped reading the newspapers when the national dialogue dragged and completely stopped watching TV after the war on Lebanon.

In 1996 when Lebanon was flourishing and rebuilding itself, he returned with his family for a chance of taking part in his country's renewal. He left after 10 months, after Israel's Grapes of Wrath war on Lebanon and the Qana massacre. All the potential investors he was courting took their money out. He returned to where he came from, shattered dreams and a destiny to be always away. Perhaps this hope has been demolished completely now. He has asked his daughter to speed his immigration papers to the U.S.

These are some stories, not the universe of stories, but they are real stories.

The Lebanese are tired of war. My brother told me today that the Lebanese are not willing anymore to pay LL5,000 per a gallon of gas in the name of resistance. The northeners might not be fighting amongst their southern nationals, but they're housing the displaced and paying the electricity and water bills for the southerners. And this is not just something new.

All of Lebanon pays the price for war. Israel will not achieve much through its agression. Military solutions are old and tired solutions. They take away lives, shatter the dreams and make out of civilized people aggressors.

If PM Seniora does not quickly and swiftly move forward with blanketing the country with state sovereignty, then Lebanon will head to civil war and the exodus of dreams will continue.

"Nobody knows how many rebellions, besides political rebellions, ferment in the masses of life which people earth."

171 comments:

nasbined said...

There will be no sympathy or tears after the real holocaust comes.

mikealpha said...

Lebanon was never a real country. Hezb'allh obviously had the military strength to take over the country whenever it wanted to. It already ruled the south and could commit the country to war whenever it chose.

We can hope that Lebanon will be survive as a free country, but that requires that Hezb'allah be squashed.

nasbined said...

"If PM Seniora does not quickly and swiftly move forward with blanketing the country with state sovereignty, then Lebanon will head to civil war and the exodus of dreams will continue."

Internal Lebanese' business are no legitimate excuse for Israeli crimes against humankind. Before this there was national dialogue to disarm HB but the madmen in Israel by rampaging across the middle east, slaughtering civilians because their army is too weak to fight HB and their Jewish soldiers blood worth more than any non-Jewish child has given birth to an entire generation of Nasrallahs that will make Jews pay a heavy price someday.

nasbined said...

Over 85% of Lebanese now support HB thanks to Israel's psycho Jew response. "Israel" did what no Lebanese could do, it united the country. Now only Christian collaboraters and intellectuals like Doha blame Lebanon for the massacre of Lebanese Children.

John said...

OK Nasbind, you made your point, can you please shut up now?

Fighting Sullyvan said...

Nasbined - You essentially are threatening genocide against Israelis.
"There will be no sympathy or tears after the real holocaust comes."

I do not blame them for wanting to wipe you off the face of the earth.

The differece between them and you is that they express remorse when they unintentionally kill civillians. You and your Hezbollah playmate intentionally target their civillians and rejoice when you kill them.
And you wonder why we cheer on the Israelis.

I hope my psycho jew friends kick your hairy little ass.

yojik said...

Hey Guys,

Nasbined is an Israeli who wants people to think all arabs are potential terrorists in order to continue the war (or maybe Lebanon is in bigger troubles than i thought...)

MERKOVA said...

DOHA .....your mumbling again... massacre, aggressions, shattered dreams, blah blah blah.

As I said before to the rest of the lebanese blogs here. The Israelis will NOT STOP bombing until you, the lebanese people, take your country back from the hizbolla. Today in beirut the UN HQ mob by the lebanese population.

C'mon guys. WAKE UP!!!!!!. Your blaming the wrong people. Hizbolla is your enemy within.

Your dream will only be a dream if the lebanese people will not die for their own country and take it back from the hizbolla.

What I dont understand is why are some lebanese come to us, USA, and immigrate. Why arent you guys fighting for your country instead of running away with your tails between your legs.

Theres nobody else to blame for the war except the lebanese government for being a bunch of cowards.

rox_publius said...

lebanon's gov't thanks hezbollah. disinvites rice.

so now, looks like lebanon = hezbollah

and should be treated as such.

and hezbollah has a machine gun on their flag...

freespeechlover said...

I cannot believe you people who are justifying these war crimes against Lebanese civilians. If you think U.S. citizens are just going to let the Israeli government take our tax money to keep killing Arabs, without any resentment among the public about this, you're dreaming.

ibn nagrela said...

zionist cowards launching precision guided weapons at civilians while zionists scream about hizbullah unguided katyushas is not only absurd -- it's depraved.

and even if hizbullah attacked an idf patrol trespassing in lebanese territory -- which israel hides behind to pursue its genocidal aims -- there is nothing more repulsive, racist or revealing about the lie of israeli "moral supremacy" than the structural racism & oppression of jewish "ethnodemocracy", e.g. apartheid, or the zionist "rationale" for civilian annihilation, i.e., that every lebanese = hizbullah.

Pasdutout said...

yojik

For the sake of world Peace, I hope you're right. and Nasbined IS Israeli....

Pasdutout said...

to All Israelis,

Can you tell us how The Press in Israel is explaining today's massacre?

dunes said...

LOL LOL LOL LOL
this is so ironic !!!! really i see the ironi in this
look what doha wrote
"If PM Seniora does not quickly and swiftly move forward with blanketing the country with state sovereignty, then Lebanon will head to civil war and the exodus of dreams will continue."

oh god it took doha 800 civis killed and who knows how many hizballah assholes deaths for him to understand that the power to stop this is in the hands of lebanon all they had to do is dissarm hizballah and take responsibilty for their own actions. and thats it.
well guys after almost a month and all these killings. doha finally got the picutre.
i wonder who will be the next one to wake up ? will it be : nasbined or maybee ibn nagrela or the rest of you fucking retarded arabs !!!!!!
damn you stupid assholes look how much death you borught to your own country , no matter arab countries are in a shabmle its because they are retarded !!!!

oh and let it be peace and yadaa yadda yadda.....

MERKOVA said...

to freespeechlover: What war crimes? mumbling ... mumbling ... massacre ... mumbling ... mumbling .... aggression ... mumbling ... mumbling. Thats what I hear from these blogs, mumbling.

to IBN NAGRELA .... TAKE BACK YOUR COUNTRY FROM THE HIZBOLLA. Thats all I can say to you since you mumble too.

DIE WITH DIGNITY ..... STOP BEING VICTIM

dunes said...

Pasdutout:
its a self defence action thats what all media here writes .
and yes they showed a katyush launcher firing from qana and they stated how many they shot a 150.
and a lawyer also spoke about this and stated that the u.n once recieved a resloution that said that if an armed force is firing from civilian concentration
and their enemy shots back and kills those civilians then that armed force who shot from a civilian location is the one to cary all blame.
and you know who set this as a presidence , thats right it was in lebanon a few years ago and it involved 2 factions from lebanon shooting at each other.
so please check the facts before you start throwing accusations.
Cheers.

Johannjs said...

A solution to end the war in Lebanon

The Lebanese could take their fate into their own hands, and not wait for the US to tell Israel to stop (actually, we know the US has rushed and is rushing more bombs to the Israelis for the continuation of the "war", which is clearly no more than the coldblood onslaugh by the Israelis of Lebanese civilians using US precision laser-guided bombs)

Don't WAIT for a cease-fire!

My solution to immediately end this continuing massacre is this:

All the refugees who had fled must now rise from their shelters and, with their children, march back south, unarmed, and drive the Israelis army out of South Lebanon.

If you agree with me, then please suggest this solution by posting on all forum boards which you know.

Thank You.

Itai said...

Pasdutout said...well the media shows the pictures and raises the questions that rise everywhere I guess.


There were 150 rockets launched from this village in the past 18 days. A UAV filmed such a launch 10 minutes before the strike but no doubt the air force screwed up.

Pictures of parents carrying their dead children makes every normal person sad and angry. My anger is directed at HZA and I hold them responsible for this horror and so does the international law btw.

To fire from within civilians is a war crime. The army that fires back acts within the law.

But though the international law protects such actions this isn't how the IDF operates. If the army knows there are civilians it won't fire back even if fired upon. As a cynic I may add that even if not for moral reasons then for practical reasons. This incident is a pure victory for HZA on all fronts and they regard these innocent children as "Shahids" for their cause anyway.

It's a crazy world we're living in...

Itai said...

Johannjs said..."All the refugees who had fled must now rise from their shelters and, with their children, march back south, unarmed, and drive the Israelis army out of South Lebanon."


Running out of human shields, are you? need more civilians to cover for HZA? So you LIKE today's outcome? Your tactic works? Why don't you march yourself down to south Lebanon?

destroylebanon said...

Those people that died in your "massacre" were warned to evacuate days ago. They did not listen, they paid the price for their ignorance.

The lebanese love to claim that people cannot evacuate because they will be killed as they do, or there are no roads to use. This is bullshit.

The lebanese claim that 700 civilians have been killed and over 700,000 have been displaced. Even if all 700 civilians killed were killed while trying to evacuate, which we know is untrue because many have been killed in buildings, then the odds of being killed while evacuating is 1/10 of 1%.

If you evacuate there is a 99.9% chance you will make it.

If you stay and die you are either stupid or a Hezbollah supporter. The world needs less of both.

Red Domino said...

"
Those people that died in your "massacre" were warned to evacuate days ago. They did not listen, they paid the price for their ignorance.
"

You do not gain any right to target civilians by warning them! Would you justify Hizbullah attacking cities in israel after a "warning"? OF COURSE NOT!

We talking about poor people there. where would they go? can they be rest assured their trucks would not be struck by israeli missles? It was us who refused a 72 hours cease fire to allow people to evacuate their homes as i recall!

People like you are a shame for our country.

Chas said...

To the Lebanese readers of this Blog I extend my heartfelt sympathy for you continueing losses.
To the Israeli readers, please do what you can, without delay and without prevarication, to stop this madness.

yuri said...

My deep sorrow to lebanese side for death of innocent people. Somebody in israeli intelligence sign the building as a target for IAF without any reason.

Zeabees said...

The death of those civilians are exactly what Hizbollah wanted. They are cowards, hiding behind children.

All of you are falling right into their hands blaming Israel. Israel has the right to bomb positions that are shooting rockets into Israel.

Wake UP!!!!!!!

destroylebanon said...

red domino

people you are the shame for our country. Your weakness has emboldened the enemy.

Nobody has any assurances their truck will not be hit, but the numbers show 700,000 HAVE gotten out.

Go red domino fight for the enemy lebanon, that is where your loyalities are. Oh that's right you are fighting for the enemy here online by showing your solidarity with lebanon.

Ayal said...

Either all comments are israelii, or this is absolutely amazing.

Danny Gillermann (Israel UN emb.) said today: If you go to sleep with missiles, you might not wake up.

You can't go half way, there is not half-a-democracy. When this is over, i hope you'll know where and to whom to point your finger.

Wish it wouldn't have happened, however you all know that if it weren't for HA, it really wouldn't have.

P.S-

news reports here ( oh, im israeli by the way :| ) say that army is not yet (if at all) taking resp. for quana killing - missile hitting the building was at 00:00, building collapsing -07:00, air officer finds that hard to explain (maybe some explosives in building). Several movies taken by planes show rockets firing from a truck iside quana, then truck heading str8 into an appartement-building and driver run off! Just know - we dont want this, not a person in israel who wants this.

[so who's coming to pukkelpop?]

dont hate.

Ayal.

Chas said...

Zeabees ... I accept Israel's right to security and self defense, but no-one is responsible ethically or morally for where bombs land more than the people who drop them. Right at the moment it is (regretably) Israel that is hiding behind HB.

Zeabees said...

Chas,
Israel is not targeting civilians.
HB is hiding behind civilians and targeting Israeli citizens. What do you expect Israel to do?? Are they suppose to sit tight and hope the rockets dont kill Israelis? I dont think so. Do you?

Tjex said...

I will say again, violence has and NEVER will resolve anything against a resistance movement (or terrorist movement depending on what side of the fence you are on).

What israel is doing will result in just more hatred towards it.

Open your history books and learn from previous attempts.

Killing of civilians, no matter what the 'excuse' is unexeptable. What if it was your mother or kid that was in that building!

Negotiations is the only solution.

Chas said...

Zeabees
I accept completely Israels repeated assurance that it does not target civilians. It does however kill civilians .. I don't think it matters much to a dying child wether they were the target or not.
Personally I would feel safer being targetted by HB than "not targetted" by Israel.
What should Israel do? Listen to you consience .. take back control of the situation from your military and seek a political way forward.

destroylebanon said...

I did open my history book. It said Islam is Nazism.

You can not negotiate with evil.

Hezbollah is not a resistance movement. It is one front on the global jihad waged by Nasrallah and his ilk. Their stated goal is first the destruction of Israel then the domination of Islam world wide.

If anything Israel is the resistance fighters to this Jihad.

destroylebanon said...

Does it matter to that dying child whether an Israeli bomb is dropped on him or his father wires him up with a "martyr" belt?

Chas said...

Destroylebanon,
-sigh- No, it does not, both are crimes.
I am trying to address rational Israelis in my posts and I guess from the name you have chosen you are not one of them.
However I will still try to answer your legitimate points. It is possible to negotiate with anyone .. perhaps not directly, perhaps not easily, perhaps with only limited results.
Wether you have the tolerance and patience to pursue that path depends a lot on your conscience and your values. It may be easier just to drop a bomb on them .. that is the path Israel has chosen for now. My hope is that will change, because of the high cost being paid by the innocent, but also because I believe it will fail. Like Tjex, I do not believe there is a miliary solution.
My hope is for peace above victory, not victory at any cost for either side.

Tsedek said...

Very sad, heartbreaking stories Doha :(

@ destroylebanon GRRRRRRRRR

Are you for real???

Tse.

destroylebanon said...

chas so my handle means I am irrational? It is rational to want to destroy your enemy.

peace above victory?

Sounds like Chamberlain "Peace in our time." Appeasement. Beacuse it worked so well last time.

There is a word for people like you........Koldar

Itai said...

Chas, your judgement of Israel is unfair.

1. HZA doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist in ANY borders. It doesn't even refer to Israel as a state but as "the zionist entity".

2. HZA isn't a state or a legitimate organization. It's an armed militia operating out of Lebanese territory, funded and equipped by Syria and Iran.

3. The weak Lebanese government doesn't act against this militia and sometimes supports it.

Who should Israel negotiate with?

Is Israel supposed to cave in to extortion demands made by an illegal terrorist organization because they have rockets?

How would any soveriegn country retaliate against such an organization and against the country who hosts it?

Let's say that the Mexican government would host an organization that calls for the destruction of the U.S. and fires rockets at Huston.

hmmm...my guess is that the U.S. won't wait for 3 weeks while its citizens flee and hide in shelters trying to pinpoint each rocket launcher in the villages south of the border.

My guess is that the U.S. will erase any town where rockets are fired from, civilians in it or not. Do you think I'm guessing wrong? How do you think the Americans would react? Do you think they'll agree to a cease fire and negotiations with the terrorists? Give them a part of Texas? Release convicted terrorists for kidnapped U.S. troops?


I don't agree with destroylebanon but I think in such a case you'll find a lot of destroymexico on the web.

Tjex said...

Well it's obivious that destroylebanon is illiterate and can't read or didn't bother to open the history books.

It's sad to see how fundemantalist (on both sides I might add) can have so much hatred in them. They are blinded by that hate.

May you all see the light.

Chas said...

It is not rational to make enemies where you could have had friends. It is not rational to view the killing of innocents as victory.
It is not rational to have contempt for peace.
Even Chuchill said "Jaw jaw is better than war war".
I am not familiar with the term "Koldar" , translate please.
Could we at least agree that innocent people are suffering, and that is not a good thing?

destroymexico said...

itai,

leave us out of it

LOL

MERKOVA said...

MASSACRE???? BLAH BLAH BLAH ... Id say let the Israelis have it their way. We, the US of A, will be glad to supply the Israelis with 5000 pounder laser guided bombs.

MASSACRE my ass. The hizbolla was firing rocktes from where that building was.


By the way, The Christians in the north are resisting the hizbolla's. If this is true why aren't the muslims in the south resisting the hizbolla's?
HMMMMMM .... let me guess .... HMMMMMM
AHAAA!!!!! maybe because they are hizbolla's.

seeker said...

Chas
Opposed to Itai,

I do not believe in retaliation, I do believe in peace.
I do believe in maximise my intrests and that is a clear conscience, safty, happiness (If possible happy neighbours) etc, etc. I have no need for war and increasing the number of people like destroylebanon in my midst.
But and that is a big but, how do you get to that all of Itai points are very valid and you didn't answer any of them. Both sides suffering, I grieve for what happend today (You think most of Israelis fill comfortable about this incident?)

But try to look at our politics the last 20 years we are trying to find a solution, our goverment were changed from left to right to left again and again but the problem remain.
How can you negotiation with people that are actively seeking your destruction?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZuU5P2YtEM&search=Hezbollah


I am not too enthusiatic about this war, But I would like the criticsm to be a bit more constructive.

peace_head said...

Doha,

thank you for a responsible and non-inflammatory post. it's encouraging to read.

lets all hope for peace.

Soltan said...

Pasdutout, Here is some Israeli media:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744295.html

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3283816,00.html

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292036218&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

In general, no one likes it. . . it is a true tragedy. There were some small anti-war demonstrations in Tel-Aviv, but these demonstrations were still quite small.

I’ll speak for my self in saying that, this accident/tragedy is terrible! No doubt about it. But when asked regarding the way we (in Israel) should act – I’d have to keep saying that we should pound the HB till the very last possible moment (Diplomatically) and do the most we can to keep citizens out of the loop. I hope they leave the civilian infrastructure. And try harder not to mess up like today. . .

Problem is that there are citizens all over the area, and the HB is not trying to keep them out of the loop, on the contrary…(like lots of videos can prove).

Wish for some peace and quite…

dougjnn said...

Tjex said...
I will say again, violence has and NEVER will resolve anything against a resistance movement (or terrorist movement depending on what side of the fence you are on).

That is simply untrue. Consider Stalin, the Romans, the Aztecs, the Spanish in Latin America, to some degree the US Army in it’s late 19th century Indian wars, and on and on. What is true is that very tough methods must sometimes be used against supporting populations (though not necessarily IF the guerillas and their supporting population believe you’ll use them).

What is true is that following WWII and all the “never again” sorts of rules and institutions the West set up including the Geneva Conventions and the UN, the West (but only the West) has been unwilling to use those methods to maintain foreign occupations, and hasn’t had to otherwise, on it’s home front. Actually France did use those methods and DID militarily win the battle of Algiers and effectively suppress the guerillas there quite decisively eventually, by using torture and displacing hundreds of thousands of people semi-permanently and being selective about who they gave humanitarian aid to etc., and lying about all this and mostly keeping it out of a fairly co-operative press (at first), but eventually the French home front as it learned more and more about the methods used simultaneously didn’t want to know any more and demanded that the government get out. Stalin was still willing to do whatever it took as was Mao and innumerable Third World dictators.

My point in all this is that the “invincibility” of guerilla forces absent political agreement depends entirely on the degree of concern the opposing conventional forces has for civilian and quasi-civilian life and human rights. (I say quasi civilian because at some point in aiding guerilla combatants you become a combatant under Geneva, though this is all quite vague. Not surprisingly civil society groups take extreme positions or pretend the issue doesn’t exist.)

Israel feels it faces a threat to it’s very existence from Hezbollah. I think that’s a bit paranoid at the moment, the but I see the logic – and see as well how that could become not paranoid at all in the near future.

The real danger and the real reason for this action wasn’t the kidnapping. The real issue is the rockets. And not just the rocket attack back on July 12 injuring 8 civilians that served as a diversion for the prisoner grab. Rather it’s that added to the rocket attacks that have been going on, off and on, for the last six years since Israel withdrew from the UN designated border of Lebanon. That and the alarming and rapidly increasing size of Hezbollah’s arsenal, combined with the existential nature of their war aims against Israel – that is it’s removal entirely from the Middle East.

If Israel’s northern third and then the whole country faces regular barrages of rocket attacks, that could seriously effect its viability. It simply won’t tolerate that, and eventually as many civilians in the country hosting such attacks are going to die as it takes to make it stop. And you know what, I agree. Starting by trying to just get Hezbollah, but eventually whatever it takes.

Why do you suppose that Syria doesn’t allow rocket attacks or any other sort of skirmishing against Israel by radical groups across it’s border – even though it has far more unresolved territorial issues with Israel than Lebanon does (or claims to have). In fact it has made any such incursions from it’s soil a capital offense – and they’re quick about it. Mainly it simply prevents it. Lebanon has to as well.

The truth is, Israel will do all this again if Hezbollah rains rockets down on it again. Maybe not if it’s an isolated incident and not too many or too much damage, but otherwise it will. Lebanon is going to find it very hard to attract investment and achieve economic recovery if Hezbollah isn’t disarmed, the Lebanese Army doesn’t credibly patrol it’s borders both with Israel and with Syria with international help, and as well prevent any resupply of weapons across it’s borders to Hezbollah.

I am neither an Israeli nor a fanatical supporter of them. I’m a secular New Yorker of Christian background, who feels Israel is being way too intransigent on the amount and location of the West Bank land it plans to keep with it’s fence, but understands the difficulties it faces in finding any Palestinian group to negotiate with on some kind of reasonable basis these days.

barroon said...

ayal

from my observiation in last 2 weeks in this page more than 90%-95% of commentors are either isrealies or pro-isrealies . ( Im not) . I dont know where the lebanies commentors are !

with regard to Isreali Media and what u wrote : what u really expect ? u think some one will show up in ur TV and say " yes we knew there are civlians but we simply didnt care cuz we wanted to take down 1 Active HA ..even if 1% chance of actually hit him" ?

stillruleall said...

To All Non Israelis:
What would you do if your country was getting attacked, and you knew the rockets were coming from a certain building. Would you have your own people get killed by the rockets, or take out the building with all the terrorists inside, and hope there are no innocents getting killed?
We did what we did because we had no choice, and we sorry civilians had to die, but when civilians are hanging around rocket launchers, what do they think will happen?

Chas said...

itai
Point taken. I am trying really hard not to be unfair to Israel, but I stand by my earlier points .. those who drop bombs bear the most responsibility for where they land. I said in my first post that I respect Israel's right to security, but surely that right extends to Israel's neighbours?
I think you may be correct that in the scenario you describe the US would react as you suggest. However that would not make it right any more than what Israel is doing is right.
Is there no point at which you would say enough?
I understand that direct negotiations with HB would be both difficult and distasteful .. so you find intermediairies, or you act, directly or indirectly to strengthen the legitimate Lebanese govt. You take unilateral action to address any legitimate grievances thus undermining HB's support. In short you try building some bridges instead of blowing them all up (both literally and figuatively)
Since it got me in trouble before I'll say it again .. right now, peace is more important than victory.

Pasdutout said...

Soltan, Thanks for the LINKS.

I wonder: If this is true, Why Haven't I picked it up in any of the International Networks(BBC, CNN..)

I remember from the first gulf war, Gen. Schwartzkopf(sp?) used to do daily briefings showing footage of exploding targets.

I wonder why Israel is not doing this?

seeker said...

Chad,
Define enough
1. Enough to aggressivness in Lebanon,
2. Enough to violence on all sides.

The first we can proabably achieve the second is a bit tricky.
We are still looking for the solution I guess, we are coming with some horrible ideas sometimes and I do agree with you that bridges are more important and peace is more important than victory.

When Israel left Lebanon in an unorderly manner, It didn't have in mide saving face, showing superiority of winning anything, it aspired for peace.
When Israel left Gaza rooting out thousands of Jewish habitents risking internal conflicts, it did not try to aim at victory. It was done for peace.

Now do not misuderstand me we have probably done many mistakes on the way and we can probably improve but your generic messages (with which I do agree) are empty for me (subjective opinion) and they do not provide me to an insight of solving the current conflict.

John said...

Pasdutout, The IDF has a press confrence every evening, just as you described with the americans in the Gulf war. It's given in Hebrew and English and (at least the hebrew part) is broadcasted in the israeli channels. I have no idea why the international channels don't broadcast it. Perhaps nasrallah is more sexy... :)

Fighting Sullyvan said...

Photos that damn Hezbollah

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

Chas said...

Seeker
I just meant enough suffering, pain, death, despair - and yes enough to violence on both sides. I am not sure I have such an insight .. just a gut-feeling that what is happening right now is not it.
Stillruleall
I am a non-Israeli, but I am from Northern Ireland, where my father was one of very few catholic members of the judiciary and one of even fewer to survive a campaign of assasination by the PIRA.
Would I have wanted at that time the British Military to bomb the appartment block where the assasins met and planned their attacks?
The answer, then and now, unequivocally NO. I say that in full knowledge of what the consequences could have been. Nor would I have wanted the British airforce to bomb Dublin or blow up the roads and bridges that led to the border or take any other such action, no matter how careful they were to limit civilian damage.
And had they taken such action I have no doubt that the conflict in my homeland would be continueing to this day and claiming more lives than ever.

Japheth (SD, CA) said...

BREAKING NEWS:

Fox News is reporting Israel is declaring a 24 hour cease-fire (on airstrikes) for humanitarian purposes, after a request from the UN. (Some others are claiming this is a 48 hour one, but unsure...)

Lirun said...

doha

i think you are a legend.. your relentless support for peace notwithstanding the tragedy that you are enduring is phenominal.. it demonstrates a maturity and depth that many can only aspire to achieve.. you are consistent and dignified no matter what happens..

i think you deserve a nobel peace prize..

what happened today is the epitomy of the tragedy that this war embodies.. it has magnified how divorced acts of aggression and their consequences can be from basic fundamental good.. it demonstrates to you what israel has indured time and time again when kids have been blown up on buses andin night clubs and in weddings etc.. and documents for the world at large that israel hits hard too..

these acts do not forward peace.. they are atrocities.. the shelling of a house full of kids and the HA seeking safe harbour in their midst are equally inexcusable.. reasons and purposes lose context when kids die..

your blog has been plagued by people who dump rhetoric all over it.. they regurgitate highly unorganic news and purge it all over the place.. they mix in bad and foul sentiments and surf their egos..

however your blog has also inspired a generation of people on both sides of our conflict to raise their voices in their own blogs and speak out and be heard and bypass the global supercrap highway..

god bless you doha.. your cobloggers and your true inspirees.. i think you have started more peaceful change and dialog than could ever be imagined..

wishing peace to all.. may no one need to grieve again..

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
let us be inspired by the wise

Chas said...

looking for confirmation .. I hope this is true

Chas said...

Lirun ) .. well said.

dougjnn said...

Chas said...
Point taken. I am trying really hard not to be unfair to Israel, but I stand by my earlier points .. those who drop bombs bear the most responsibility for where they land. I said in my first post that I respect Israel's right to security, but surely that right extends to Israel's neighbours?

There are always lots of civilian deaths in war, generally far more than military ones, except in the unusual circumstance where BOTH sides are willing to just go out into empty fields and confront each other and confine themselves to that sort of battle. There were certainly far more civilian than military deaths in WWII for example. The same or actually worse proportionately was true in ancient times and everywhere in between.

We’ve simply become far more skittish about it, particularly with cable / satellite 24/7 news.

Israel is fighting this to keep Hezbollah from raining or being able to rain rockets upon it from a safe haven in Lebanon. It’s been doing that off and on for six years and it’s arsenal has recently been increasing alarmingly both in number, and in range and size.

It’s simply intolerable to allow Hezbollah to keep raining rockets into Israel or further building it’s arsenal. Lebanon should have disarmed this state within a state militia dedicated to making Israel unviable as it was required to do un UN 1559, and as other normal states do without any such resolution.

Syria sure doesn’t allow similar activity from it’s soil. It knows what would happen.

Sister Sledge said...

Chas, your entries are interesting. To my fellow Israelis, please understand we were brought up with a certain belief system, and sometimes it didn't leave much room for other options or opinions. Try to hear the voices of reason here and see it through the eyes of a Lebanese. Same to you, my Lebanese neighbors.
I agree-Peace over anything. war is terrible even if and when it is neccesary. It always breeds hate, violence and the worst in man. Which reminds me-what about the women? You know we hold the key to the 21st century. Speak out!
As for the questions of how Israelis feel after Kana: Other than the extreme nuts everybody was horrified at the footage. Israe may be aggressive, but we are not taught to rejoice at death. But there is also much discussion about how the HA uses civilian homes as firing bases. So most people feel unomfortable with the criticism that this was pre meditated. I personally don't think it was-why would Israel do that? What would we gain? If we really wanted to kill as many people as possible, we could have found reasons to attack earlier. We were very happy with a quiet border.
There are mnay voices of peace here...may we all have a quiet night.

Chas said...

I cannot find confirmation .. the story comes from AP quoting a US state dept spokesman! There is no confirmation from Jerusalem or IDF.

Chas said...

Dougjnn
I had never considered skittishness as a moral quality before! I guess I do now )
Sister sledge, thank-you .. I add my wishes to yours

dunes said...

sister sledge : are u calling a bus full of childern exploding a belief system ? or a suicide bomber other opnion ?
when violence is used it gets back all i can say is
we didnt start the fire
.

John Smith said...

We all just repeat the same things over and over again. Surely everyone has learned a few things he did not know about the ‘other side’, no?

I think this may be the right format for mutual understanding:



Things I think Israelis should know about Lebanon and Hezbollah:

The non-military part of Hezbollah is helping South Lebanon in many ways where the Lebanese government doesn’t.

Hezbollah is the only organisation that represents (politically) a certain sector of the Lebanese people.

Most of the Lebanese wants to disarm Hezbollah and have already started talking about it internally, but they are afraid this can lead to a civil war. The Lebanese had only 1 year to achieve that (only after Syria left) and not 6 years like it is often been claimed.

Hezbollah is much stronger than the Lebanese army.

As the attacks go on, Nasrallah gains more support.



Things I think Lebanese should know about Israel and IDF:

Israel has no interest in Lebanese soil.

Israel has been continuously attacked by Hezbollah rockets and small fire arms since 2000.

The Israeli public is divided over the Palestinian issues, but united about this war and ending Hezbollah attacks from the north.

The IDF do tries its best not to harm civilians, but rockets are being launched from residential areas.

Israel believes Hammas (and maybe even Iran) are waiting to see if Hezbollah will break the IDF to gain motivation for attacks against Israel. Therefore it will not agree to cease fire for at least a week or two in order to ensure Nasrallah can’t claim victory (he will do that regardless).



Your comments…

dougjnn said...

Chas-

Confirmation from NY Times--

Late today, Israel agreed to suspend its airstrikes for 48 hours while it investigates the bombing of Qana, a State Department spokesman said. The spokesman, Adam Ereli, told reporters in Jerusalem that Israel would coordinate with the United Nations to provide a 24-hour period during which residents of southern Lebanon could leave area safely.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/world/middleeast/30cnd-mideast.html?hp&ex=1154318400&en=59074a966f18b6b3&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Looks like Rice won this in Jerusalem today.

I think this is what Rice had in mind when she said in a brief news conference announcing she wasn't going to Beirut today after all, that "In any even my work is here (Jerusalem) today."

Papa Ray said...

I don't think the world ever understands the death of children or want's our children killed, but besides the want, there must be someone to stop it.

There will always be those who want to war for whatever reason suits them at the time.

But throughout history there has been one religion that has not only believed in conquest, but has encouraged it.

That religion is the world's worse enemy, especially for those who believe in it.

It has to change, to come to the present, instead of the past.

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

Dimitry said...

While universally indeed Peace Is Good and War Is Bad, the world isn't simple enough for this to be the only guiding principle. Munich Treaty in 38 prevented war, only to create much worse one a year later (Czechoslovakia, before it was dismembered in Munich, was the military equal of France and Britain, and the three of them could've squashed Nazi Germany in two fronts relatively quickly). Sometimes, violence does more to promote good than avoiding it.

dougjnn said...

So, I'd guess this translates into a 24 hour halt in all war except where Israeli forces are attacked, and a 48 halt to the air war.

dougjnn said...

Since there's going to be coordination I may mean the 24 hour period isn't going to start immediately. Maybe not until the back end of the 48 hour period.

Chas said...

Dougjnn
Yes - confirmation on bbc world - still nothing from Israeli sources though
Let us pray this is a turning point.

dougjnn said...

Fox reporters are saying they haven't been able to confirm the story yet, but for the last ten minutes or so Israeli artillery has fallen silent where they are. Unlike the rest of the day or the usual pattern.

Chas said...

Dimitry
I am pretty much 100% sure that this is not such a case. Brutal violence here is just what it appears and holds no promise for the future.

John Smith said...

Comments about my previous post?

dougjnn said...

John Smith said...

For the most part a good summary of the situation on each side seems to me.

Israel believes Hammas (and maybe even Iran) are waiting to see if Hezbollah will break the IDF to gain motivation for attacks against Israel. Therefore it will not agree to cease fire for at least a week or two in order to ensure Nasrallah can’t claim victory (he will do that regardless).

I don’t think the US after Qana is going to give Israel that long. The pressure on and damage to the US is just becoming too great.

I also think it’s probably in Israel’s best interests to be stopped real soon now. It’s also in her interest overall, and particularly in Olmert’s personal interest, to be seen to be forced to stop by the US before she supposedly (or actually) wanted to. Leaves open uncertainty as to how much Israel could have done if allowed to, and anyway that argument.

Whereas in actuality I doubt Israel would be able to get much more done at the current pace. If Arabs are sure of that deterrence goes down.

I actually think Israel should have been stopped a week ago for her own good as well as Americas. The US thought Israel would do a lot more on the ground than it’s in fact done.

Lirun said...

im off to bed people..

good night and wishing us all a safer tomorrow

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
tired of today (what a luxury)

Lirun said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
John Smith said...

To dougjnn,

I agree.

Dimitry said...

chas,

This is usually the case when there's a faction involved that does not want to simply peacefully exist, but rather to conquer or destroy. And Hiz fits this description perfectly.


dougjnn,

I asked in the comments to another post, but didn't get an answer - what makes you think Israel achieved sufficient detterance effect, and why are you certain it won't be utterly destroyed by Israel stopping the attack (what would be claimed by Hiz as victory)?

dougjnn said...

Dimitry said...
I asked in the comments to another post, but didn't get an answer - what makes you think Israel achieved sufficient detterance effect
What I think is that Israel has achieved as much deterrent effect as it’s going to get. It goes down not up from here. In fact I think it had more deterrent effect a week ago than today.
The ground campaign hasn’t gone well. It’s been very slow. I also get whiffs that some of the troops who went in were REALLY rattled. Some units met with limited successes and others met with near fiascos looked like to me. As well the Cabinet voted down going in with a full scale invasion. Israel isn’t going to get months. It doesn’t look at all likely to do much more that’s effective in either killing Hez fighters or destroying their rockets in weeks. That being the case the longer this goes on the more of what I see and many see everyone in the Arab world will become utterly sure of.
I also think it’s probably going to be enough deterrent effect to stop the intermittent rocket attacks that went on before this conflict started. Whether it’s enough to get Hezbollah disarmed I’m more skeptical of. Depends on Lebanese political developments and diplomacy though not incremental amounts of hitting Hezbollah further.

Zeabees said...

BEIRUT: Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora thanked Hizbollah on Sunday for its "sacrifices" in its war against Israel.

"We are in a strong position and I thank the Sayyed for his efforts," Siniora said when asked about a Saturday statement by Hizbollah chief Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah calling on the government to take advantage of Hizbollah's steadfastness against Israeli military might.

"I also thank all those who sacrifice their lives for the independence and sovereignty of Lebanon," he added.

Zeabees said...

I'm starting to think your Prime Minister Fouad Siniora is on drugs.

Hizbollah kills and kidnaps Israeli soliders, which starts this war btw, and Siniora thanks them?????

nasbined said...

zeabees Israel occupies Lebanese land and holds Lebanese prisoners, Israel never gives up land without paying a heavy price first. Hezbollah gave Israel a bloody defeat. Europeans voted Israel the #1 threat to world peace, above Iran and North Korea. Yes Siniora thanks them.

Fighting Sullyvan said...

John Smith - Well said earlier.
I think your synposis of Israeli and Lebansese perspectives was accurate, although not comprehensive.

Chas said...

Perhaps we can all join in hoping that this will be a night when no children will die?
I know that HB will try to use this to regroup and will probably not match the 48 hr halt.
It is encumbent on a debilitated, tired and angry Lebanon to use every effort now to try to stop HB, during this brief window. It is a tall order as the popularity of HB has grown and the Lebanese govt's physical and political ability to cope with it has diminished.
Only if it is seen, at the very least, to have made a serious effort in this direction will it have some chance to prevent an Israeli resumption.
To all Lebanese posters : You have a respite, but you cannot rest, you have work to do, use whatever means you can to get you government to make every effort to rein in HB. It is your best chance to save your country.
To all Israeli : your people will be saying that HB will be reinforcing its positions, how about using this time to avoid reinforcing your prejudices? Search your hearts, your minds, your libraries, the web and try to find another way.
There is a tiny opportunity for peace here .. please , all of you, do what you can.

nasbined said...

"To all Lebanese posters : You have a respite, but you cannot rest, you have work to do, use whatever means you can to get you government to make every effort to rein in HB. It is your best chance to save your country."


Chas, it's not up to Lebanon to do Israel's bidding. The Israelis choose to destroy Lebanon, HB didn't kill any Lebanese civilians.

Zeabees said...

Probably during a temporary cease fire would be a good time to return the Israeli soliders...what do you think?

Chas said...

Agreed Zeabees .. shoulda said that, sorry
Nas,
I am not suggesting Leb do Israel's bidding but that they act to defend their own democracy and future. I think at the moment this outweighs other (legitimate) considerations

Fighting Sullyvan said...

I think the Lebanese should do their own bidding and attack Hezbollah themselves.

This may sound harsh, but how much of siding with Hezbollah with Israel is really about avoiding the necessity of fighting Hezbollah and putting your life on the line?

I read about Druze fighting Hezbollah from coming into their town to use it to fire missles into Israel. Hezbollah has cut off their electricity and gas. Hezbollah is attacking other Lebanese.

Why are more Lebanese not standing up for themselves? Show some god damn sack people and toss these jerks out on their ear!

If you need weapons contact the USA. If you know where Hezbollah targets are contact the Israelis. Most importantly, get as far away as possible from any Hezbollah. They are radioactive.

If you decide that you really would prefer to be ruled by Hezbollah, don't expect much sympathy from the US, and more importantly your southern neighbors who are taking some major hits from Hezbollah.

Zeabees said...

Nas
"Europeans voted Israel the #1 threat to world peace, above Iran and North Korea."

Sure would like to know where this poll was taken. Had to be Arabs in Europe, if I had to bet on it. I would like to see a link if you can provide it please. Thanks.

~Zeabees~

3li- said...

All those thinking that they can disarm HA right now are deluding themselves.

Neither Israel, surely not the Lebaense government, nor the international community can do it.

HA will not give up its weapons, especially not now, not with a war raging on, and with the intents and purposes of a US/Israel plan having been exsposed.

Before anything can happen, all of HA's conditions will have to be met which include:

1. Release of Lebanese prisoners (and maybe now some Palestininas after the Qana massacre)

2. Return of Shebaa farms

3. Israel's maps for the remaining few hundered thousand land mines Israel planted and abondoned in Lebanon.

4.Practical guarantees that Israel will not violate Lebanon's sovereign lands/sky/waters anymore.

After that, the make-up of the Lebanese government will have to change and a true Nationalist, independent government will have to replace the bunch of morons whose duplicitous allegience to the west has rendered them unqualified to run the country.

There is no way in hell, and you can mark my words, that HA will give up its arms to a government that looks towards the US for succor and help. They are not stupid. They would have just finished with a war waged on them by the US and its proxy Israel. Giving up their arms to the current government will be in effect back-dooring them to the US/Israel who had announced HA's extermination. Not gonna happen.

The Lebanese have a lot of soul-searching to do, and I mean all sects. Honesty with each other and the ability to capitalize on a true patriotic moment with HA's dignified and historic defense of the Lebanese homeland against a superior enemy will be the building blocks of a new and independent nation. Foremost IMO is the realization that Israel is the premier enemy of Lebanon and all Arabs and that only regional alliances with neighbors across the Mideast is in the best interest of Lebanon and its future.

The US has been exposed as a self-serving, blind super-power who is beholden to its own interests and those of its favorite puppet/client, the vicious and barbaric Israel. It, the US is willing to sacrifice all of its friends and clients (except Israel for reasons will not go into right now) when the right time comes. "Fool me once..." as the saying goes.

This is in actuality a momentous occasion that will see the decline of the influence and prestige of the US. The US pushed its luck too far and depended on a soft and fat ally/client, Israel, who has lost the will to fight and acts more like a bully with a big toy whose favorite past time is smashing things but will cry and run when someone steps on his toes.

If the Lebanese can seize this moment, and show some political spine and national will and true independence, then history will be on their side. If they will keep mincing words and play the lackey game hoping for the US to come rescue them again (the same US that was sending bombs to their enemy while Lebanon burned), then I anticipate lots of hard times ahead. If the first scenario becomes reality, I think HA will be an integral part of the Lebanese defense apparatus, or will be included in the army in some other format. If the second scenario manifests itself, we will be back to square one and Lebanon will suffer instability and possibly internal war for a while to come.

Fighting Sullyvan said...

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/archiv/30.07.2006/2660279.asp

Ich wohnte bis 2002 in einem kleinen Dorf im Süden nahe Mardschajun, das mehrheitlich von Schiiten wie mir bewohnt ist. Nach Israels Verlassen des Libanon dauerte es nicht lange, bis die Hisbollah bei uns und in allen anderen Ortschaften das Sagen hatte. Als erfolgreiche Widerstandskämpfer begrüßt, erschienen sie waffenstarrend und legten auch bei uns Raketenlager in Bunkern an. Die Sozialarbeit der Partei Gottes bestand darin, auf diesen Bunkern eine Schule und ein Wohnhaus zu bauen! Ein lokaler Scheich erklärte mir lachend, dass die Juden in jedem Fall verlieren, entweder weil die Raketen auf sie geschossen werden oder weil sie, wenn sie die Lager angriffen, von der Weltöffentlichkeit verurteilt werden ob der dann zivilen Toten. Die libanesische Bevölkerung interessiert diese Leute überhaupt nicht, sie benutzen sie als Schilder und wenn tot als Propaganda. Solange sie dort existieren, wird es keine Ruhe und Frieden geben.

Dr. Mounir Herzallah,

Berlin-Wedding

I lived until 2002 in a small southern village near Mardshajund that is inhabited by a majority of Shias like me. After Israel left Lebanon, it did not take long for Hezbollah to have its say in other towns. Received as successful resistance fighters and armed to the teeth, they stored rockets in bunkers in our town as well. The social work of the Party of God consisted in building a school and a residence over these bunkers! A local sheikh explained to me laughing that the Jews would lose in any event because the rockets would either be fired at them or if they attacked the rockets depots, they would be condemned by world opinion on account of the dead civilians. These people do not care about the Lebanese population, they use them as shields, and, once dead, as propaganda. As long as they continue existing there, there will be no tranquility and peace.

Dr. Mounir Herzallah
Berlin-Wedding

Zeabees said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3

So it is the USA's fault that Hizbollah killed and kidnapped Israeli soliders??? You and I both know if the soliders were returned the bombing would cease.

And those terms you mentioned...that is just a bunch of crap on paper. Israel should never have to agree to that.

You want Hizbollah to run your country? Then you reap what you sow. Dont complain about Syria or Iran anymore.

3li- said...

Fighting Sullyvan--

The racism inherent in this article does not even dignify a response...But for the sake of those reading I will only mention a couple of things:

1. HA is made up of the sons and daughters of the very people who live in those towns. To insinuate that they are willing to put their own families lives,and the lives of their friends and neighbors, at risk to score political points against the vicious tactics of Israel is moronic and laughable. Only people who are willing to think and do so themselves are able to imagine such despicable and nefarious schemes.

2. Your own Israel forces admitted that HA had dug into the mountainsides bunkers and munition depots as big as 30 meters long. They have also used caves and other means for storing weapons.

Israel's big weapon, besides its military might, has always been its ability to cast its enemies as depraved individuals who have no regard for life, including their own families. This is a lie that US and some Europeans may have foolishly swallowed. But with HA, this tactic does not work. Their bravery, chivalry and pride has elevated them above all attempts to demonize them.

So stop spewing nonsense. If you want to fight those guys, they are only a few hundred meters from the border. They are waiting for you...

3li- said...

Zeabees,

Don't be a fool. You know by now that this is not about the two soldiers. This is about the "new Middle East," as Ms. Condi_Nero Rice told all of us.

Your country is fighting for a new world order. You are using the two soldiers as pretext and have obviously decided to sacrifice them and others for this master plan.

So I would worry more about how your PM and Mr. Bush are playing with your and our lives for the sake of a grand vision that eluded them in Iraq, and leave the HA issue to the Lebanese. They will take care of it.

And please do not tell me about your insecurity about Katyusha rocket threatening your existence. HA has no plans to and cannot, as their SG Nasrallah said, attack and invade Israel. THe whole thing about the prisoners was to instigate a prisoner swap. That was it. Others, as I said above, used it for their own game, and now you're buying their stupid arguement hook, line and sinker...

Zeabees said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3 said...
" THe whole thing about the prisoners was to instigate a prisoner swap. That was it. Others, as I said above, used it for their own game, and now you're buying their stupid arguement hook, line and sinker... "

Oh I really love that comment!! So it was just a way instigate a prisoner swap? By killing soliders and kidnapping?? Is it so hard to use dialogue instead of death??

No what happened is it BACKFIRED on Hizbollah. And these are the people you want to run your country? It is hard for me to believe that you support that.

Sad for the children is all I can say!

Fighting Sullyvan said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3 - I believe that letter was from a Shia Muslim, no? Are you saying this Shia is a racist?

I find it humorous whenever Arabs call Israelis/Jews racist since some of the most vile racism I hear comes out of the mouths of Arabs. Towards Jews, non-Arabs, and Africans.

I'm not saying some Israelis aren't racist. I've me a couple who seem to have some hardcore prejudices against Arabs.

Thankfully I don't live in either Israel or Lebanon, so I am in no position to fight. But I can tell you for a fact that if it was my country and some hillbilly militias were running roughshod over my own government and dictating to me whether the country was going to war with someone who hadn't attacked us, I'd be pulling out my shotgun and organizing a possee to make things right. That you don't choose to do this is your perogative, but don't cry me a river about how your country is getting bombed back into the seventies because your beloved hillbilly militias fired missles into your more powerful neighbors.

toni,FL said...

I think that is sad.Hazballah needs to get out of Lebanon so the masacare can stop.

nasbined said...

toni, Israel needs to get out of Lebanon and the massacre will stop. israel needs to get out of the middle east so there can be peace.
Notice how a Jew free Europe has been relatively peaceful since WW2? A jew free germany hasn't started any wars for the first time in centuries. Yes give the middle east the same chance that the Europeans got.
Move Israel to Alaska or Europe.

Zeabees said...

nasbined said...
There will be no sympathy or tears after the real holocaust comes.


You make no effort for peace with Israel. Your first comment on this blog tells your story.

~Zeabees~

nasbined said...

zeabees only Israel has the power to make ammends and right the wrongs it has committed. Go home to Russia and Brooklyn. Send your leaders to the hague for war crimes trials. Let justice be done.

Zeabees said...

nasbined

Do you not understand peace is a 2 way street? All you speak of is how to get Israel out of the Middle East, not how to make peace.

It will never be with you thinking the way you do. I guess the fighting continues and the innocent suffer. Happy?

The Middle East News Addict said...

It is heartwarming to hear the voice of reason even through these tragic times. Indeed this whole catastrophy will end when Lebanon assumes sovereignty over ALL of Lebanon; thus preventing Hezbollah from dragging Lebanon into this unnecessary war. My heart weaps with Lebanon over this tragedy but it is time for the Lebanse people to stand up and shout out loud: Stop sacrificing Lebanon for Hezbollah; Sacrifice Hezbollah for Lebanon!

nasbined said...

news addict Lebanon is not going to fight Israel's battles. Israel's once strongest army in the middle east was humiliated in Lebanon, you think the Lebanese army can defeat HB?


http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L30832182.htm

Read this, now even the Lebanese army today drove away an Israeli attempt to capture a Lebanese village. The chickenshit Israelis fled and called in airstrikes to kill more civilians.

3li- said...

Zeabees-

You may not know this, but Lebanon has asked for the Lebanese prisoners repeatedly-Israel always scoffed at them, as they do when they ask for the Shebaa farms, and the map of the mines etc...

They even tried taking it to the UN in vain. Nasrallah, in the end said that Israel will only negotiate when Lebanon has something Israel wants, namely a couple of soldiers to effect a trade. This was not a secret. It was announced several times. I don't think anyone took it seriously until it happened.

I agree that a lot can be had by negotiations, but it is Israel, the strong party here, that refuses to negotiate, either with the Lebanese or the Palestinians.
Israel is drunk with power and thinks it is immune to either defeat or international criticism.

I think it bit more than it can chew this time around. I also believe it has unleashed forces in the Mideast, namely a reinvigorated Arab street, whose evolving influence will change the power equations in the Mideast. It is a matter of time right now...

stateroom said...

Whatever else, the event in Qana was a human tragedy. But the photographs do not show it honestly. Rather, they have been staged for effect, exploiting the victims in an unwholesome manner. In so doing, they are no longer news photographs - they are propaganda. And, whoever said the camera cannot lie forgot that photographers can and do. Those lies have spread throughout the world by now and will be in this morning's newspapers, accepted as real by the millions who view them.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/07/milking-it.html

John said...

The ONWE thing I really don't get is why anybody responds to NASBINED when he has proven he just wants to throw propoganda, and not to talk. I propose that we all get a bit more patience and just ignore the IDIOT (and it really doesn't matter if he's a arab or imposing as one. He's still a idiot).

John said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3 - it works both ways - Israel has repeatedly asked the lebanese and syrians for INFORMATION about the fate of our MIAs.

Let's say gently that they are still missing.

I Don't think that the non-negotional attitude Is ONLY Israel's blame. Both side are to blame.Still, I haven't seen Israelis bomb civilian cities in order to pressure for information.

John said...

Oh, and a article by a leftwinged (!) writer in Israel:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744436.html

nasbined said...

"Still, I haven't seen Israelis bomb civilian cities in order to pressure for information."

John you stupid fucking Jew I'm sick of you trolling me. Go sleep with your head in your oven ok.
I'm not Arab, I never claimed to be. You Jews expect the world to ignore your war of genocide against the arabs by just telling non-Arabs to stay out of it but that's not going to work. Your victims are more human than you are.

Israel doesn't bomb civilian cities? WTF was Israel doing by burning Beiruit? But villages like Qana '96 is okay?

There is no way a military operation could have freed your cowardly soldiers that were seized for being on the Lebanese side of the border when they were captured.
http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/07/12/ap2873051.html

Israel was blood drunk on its (illusion) of power now the whole world knows Israel can be defeated by a strong will, something the Israelis lack.

John said...

Nasbined, You are officially IGNORED.

go fuck.

nasbined said...

Ignore me but you cann't ignore being defeated in Lebanon nor can you hide your humiliation. Everything has changed from Israel's huge mistake in demanding blood instead of acting civilized and entering negotiations like normal people do. No more deterrence. You lost. Move to Alaska.

barroon said...

John Smith

all ur notes respectivly noted . i :

"Israel believes Hammas (and maybe even Iran) are waiting to see if Hezbollah will break the IDF to gain motivation for attacks against Israel."

It was better from the first place if isreal had the Goths to lunch attack on a country who can stand for his self instead of attacking 1000+ some millitance and 3 million civinalns and want to prove his power by that act !!
and regardless of what Media sell to every one around the world . Iran has no intrest to start or attack any country ( forget the speeches i mean practically ). and if u look at history iran never attacked any one of his niegbours in last 100 years or more

stateroom said...

IDF: Qana building fell hours after strike



(VIDEO) IDF continuing to check difficult incident at Qana village, and attempting to account for strange gap between time of the strike on the building – midnight – and eight in the morning, when the building collapsed

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3283816,00.html

barroon said...

John Smith

all ur notes respectivly noted . i have comment on last one thou :

"Israel believes Hammas (and maybe even Iran) are waiting to see if Hezbollah will break the IDF to gain motivation for attacks against Israel."

It was better from the first place if isreal had the Goths to lunch attack on a country who can stand for his self instead of attacking 1000+ some millitance and 3 million civinalns and want to prove his power by that act !!
and regardless of what Media sell to every one around the world . Iran has no intrest to start or attack any country ( forget the speeches i mean practically ). and if u look at history iran never attacked any one of his niegbours in last 100 years or more

stateroom said...

`if u look at history iran never attacked any one of his niegbours in last 100 years or more`
______________________________

! million are beleived to have died in the Iran-Iraq war.

stateroom said...

Lebanese Shia Explains Hizballah's Charity Work


I lived until 2002 in a small southern village near Mardshajund that is inhabited by a majority of Shias like me. After Israel left Lebanon, it did not take long for Hezbollah to have its say in other towns. Received as successful resistance fighters and armed to the teeth, they stored rockets in bunkers in our town as well. The social work of the Party of God consisted in building a school and a residence over these bunkers! A local sheikh explained to me laughing that the Jews would lose in any event because the rockets would either be fired at them or if they attacked the rockets depots, they would be condemned by world opinion on account of the dead civilians. These people do not care about the Lebanese population, they use them as shields, and, once dead, as propaganda. As long as they continue existing there, there will be no tranquility and peace.

Dr. Mounir Herzallah
Berlin-Wedding

http://judeoscope.ca/article.php3?id_article=0429

barroon said...

stateroom

I said " if u read history"
so i will not argue " Historical facts" here go and read. that war was not started by iran . Iraq attacked iran . and i said " iran in 100 years didnt start.."

rayzer246 said...

from what i read this is nothing. the last time israel went on a rampage 10,000 were dead. consider yourselves lucky. there are more muslims killing each other everyday in iraq. where's the fucking outrage there.............
yeah that's kinda why some people dont really give a shit anymore.
i voted for george bush and now i know why......osama screwed up and george is mad!!!!!!

shankari said...

I do not believe that killing will solve the problems in the middle east. Israel will not succeed against the Hezbollah, in the same way they did not succeed against the PLO.
I quote from a recent BBC article:
When Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982, the initial pretext - reflected in the codename given to the operation, Peace for Galilee - was to push PLO guns about 40km (25 miles) back from the border, beyond range of northern Israel.
....
Israel hoped to establish a friendly government in Beirut in 1982
The goal sounds familiar today, as Hezbollah rockets hail down on Israel's northern cities.
.....
The Israelis failed to destroy the PLO, but succeeded in squeezing it out. Yasser Arafat and his fighters were obliged to evacuate on ships and be taken off to Tunis.
...
In 1982, Lebanon's majority Shia community - fed up with paying the price for Palestinian guerrilla adventures against Israel - initially welcomed the Israeli intervention.
But its increasing resentment against the continuing Israeli occupation provided fertile ground for Iran and Syria to encourage the formation of a vehicle that was to prove both deadly and effective in driving the Israelis out: Hezbollah, which did not exist before the invasion."

If the Hezbollah is destroyed what more potent force will take its place.

There is no easy solution, but resollution is possible if both sides want it to happen.

dunes said...

John:
if you noticed some of the posters here no longer reply to those inflamtory idiot nas,al-gha
so they can screem and shout but in the end nobody gives a damn

Behemoth101 said...

Mazel tov!

Ca y est: The birth pangs of one hundred million miscarriages of justice.

The unsexed Lady Macbeth of the West looms over the Middle East with a benign smirk, to her right on a gossimer leash strung with glistening tax dollars, the snapping pit bull of Israeli zealots.

Her afterbirth: the pan-Arabian dolchstoss that leaves generations imporverished and hate-filled; the long knife of ersatz diplomacy firmly nestled in the back of the terror-filled, democratic, sovereign nation, among others.

Shhh media... the baby is hemorrhaging...

John said...

Shankari,

The problem, as Israelis see it, is that HZ does not want it to happen. They are (are were before the war started)declaring that their sole goal is the DESTRUCTION of Israel and nothing else.

John said...

Dune,

got it. thanks.

Lirun said...

i will never give up my dream for peace..

i vow to honour the death of the children who yesterday paid the price of their lives (and all other victims) for the stupidity of adults.. by forever seeking peace..

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com

Itai said...

shankari, Like you said in 1982 Araffat and the remains of the armed PLO left Beirut on a boat never to return. But I'm afraid this operation won't be as successful.

stateroom said...

barroon:
I said " if u read history"
so i will not argue " Historical facts" here go and read. that war was not started by iran . Iraq attacked iran . and i said " iran in 100 years didnt start.."
_________________________________

It was the deranged Ayatollah Khomeini, whose followers overthrew the Shah of Iran (a client of the U.S. government in the Cold War), who announced upon his return to Tehran from his exile in Paris, that Saddam Hussein was at the top of his list of enemies... and it was he who called upon his Shi'ite followers in Iraq to change the secular regime in Baghdad, replacing it with a fundamentalist regime that would make him happy.

http://www.antiwar.com/wanniski/?articleid=6065

Red Domino said...

To "destroylebanon":

"
Go red domino fight for the enemy lebanon, that is where your loyalities are. Oh that's right you are fighting for the enemy here online by showing your solidarity with lebanon.
"

Choose your words carfully my friend!

On the same ground, one could claim that any lebanese who will dare to question Hizbullah missle attacks on our cities, and showing solidarity with israelis, is "fighting for the enemy". That argument is probably used Hezbollah.

Clearly, both you and Hezbollah use refuted arguments to justify what is well known to be a war crime.

Beyond it, i strong recommend before making further posts, that you will ask "משרד החוץ", if your behaviour serves the "הסברה", or just serves anti-jewish propaganda.

You'll be surprised...

barroon said...

stateroom :
He " khomeini" done so many revalutionary speechs Like all the revalutionary figures. BUT still iran didnt start the war on Iraq . Saddam attacked iran exactly in same manner he attacked Kuwait. iranian millitary forces were not on even on boarders and thats why iraq was able to take over several cities and KM inside iranian boarders in first day of war !! which took iran 9 month of war to take them back after brutels battels.

Soltan said...

nasbined--

I checked the article you posted earlier and I can’t seem to find how exactly you derive your conclusion regarding the Israeli patrol being across the border. . .

The article says: “The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon , prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them.”

Well, is seems to me that the clashes were across the border and not the patrol, and what this article doesn’t tell you is that these clashes were happening while HBA were bombing all the border side residential area.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70F16FD35540C708DDDAE0894DE404482

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0D17FD35540C708DDDAE0894DE404482

Later on, as the story developed, Israel started hitting Beirut’s residential area after HBA had fired rockets on Haifa.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60A13F734540C748DDDAE0894DE404482

Don’t get me wrong, I do think that Israel has over reacted in some of it’s attacks. In a way that inflicted small tactical achievements, larger international image damage, and very large pain and misery to the residential population.

But there is one thing that we all have to remember – the HBA with all du respect (and I don’t have much – forgive me) is not operating in the same level (Diplomatically) as the state of Israel. It has no representative in the UN, it has no that is officially there to talk to over temporary issues like a 24-48 seas fire. And it is voluntarily, officially aimed at hurting civilian population (in Israel) and not doing the minimal effort to of keeping the civilian population in Lebanon out of the story.

You talk about Huge, I ask – who will I sue in HBA?! Who is my address in Lebanon!?

Exactly – there is non – that is way we expect the Lebanese government to enforce it’s law and power in the south. We expect the same standard from Lebanon as you and the world expect from us.

I’d like to here your response – but please try to keep intellectual.

Wish for some peace and quiet.

Lirun said...

ok thats just great.. lets all start arguing about other wars in history as well.. that's soooo productive..

i am saddened by the attacks on jewish institutions in chicago and sydney.. but i can not say that they are unusual.. french jews - many of which are very intimated with their muslim compatriots can tell us a lot about racial vilification..

this is such a stain on what is generally a peaceful coexistence..

i believe that only few people could deny that outside our native region - we all get along very well..

its important that we learn from our brothers and sisters overseas rather than teach them our stupidity..

wishing us all peace

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
enough is enough

Japheth (SD, CA) said...

Some scary thoughts linked from here:

http://allisonkaplansommer.blogmosis.com/history/032661.html

In particular: this, spoken by a Hezbollah fighter:

"The real battle is after the end of this war. We will have to settle score with the Lebanese politicians. We also have the best security and intelligence apparatus in this country, and we can reach any of those people who are speaking against us now. Let's finish with the Israelis and then we will settle scores later."

Lalith said...

Case of effective lying:

http://www.geocities.com/Capitol...s-iraq- lie.html

Wow ! Israel, USA & UK is telling the whole truth, nothing but the truth.

Hezbullaos bombed the building after 8 hours !

Hezbullos placed the dead underneath the rubble.

White house just announced Condi is pregnent.

These are 100% truth.

John said...

I would like to discuss a different topic and hear your opinions, Israeli and lebanese alike.

Should pictures of bodies be shown to the public (on TV and newspapers) or should such sights be censored?

Lirun said...

you have raised an excellent point john.. i noticed on some on the footage of the horrific suffering of the lebanese.. some women were pushing people aside so that the world could see the carnage..

in israel we dont do that.. we see it as disrespectful.. the problem is however that unless people see your plight they will never understand your reactions and you become indefensible..

its a vile dillema - but one that critically tips the balance in war.. and can turn a justified cause into baseless and a evil mission into blessed..

israel needs to wake up to the true parameters of the conflict - which to my mind are fought at least 50% in the minds of people in some virtual war tv land..

the problem is then further complicated by the ramifications of publicity.. even if you are victimised - does it help you to cry to the world? will they listen? or will they continue eating the crumpets and jam just as they did in rwanda? and if they do care - will they then fear doing business with you? withdraw investment? desert your tourist attractions? alienate you from the lucrative social circles of international politics and think of you as war torn?

so many people can be impacted either way and there are so many arguments for and against..

to my mind.. in the balance of issues.. if you paint th eworld's tv screens with blood - they do in fact turn away from the screens 3 seconds letter and finish their pizza and beer and become desensitised.. they get pissed off at you for disrupting their eutopian views that the world is just dandy.. they dont help you (unless you have oil) and shortly after they forget you all together..

so i vote not to show the dead..

barroon said...

John

they should be shown in a certain extend.its nesseccary for pepole to see horific senes of war and destruction to relize more the need of peace ( every where) .its give the war and ur " Supposed enemy" a FACE

Lirun said...

barroon - i believe in putting faces to victims.. but make them dignified photos so they are remembered as humans and so people can identify with the victims.. very few people can identify with torn flesh and blood..

wishing this was a hypothetical discussion

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
war is disgusting

John said...

Barroon,

Do you honestly belive that seeing mutilated bodies (Israeli or lebanese, it doesn't matter for the discussion)will achieve peace? I think that they will achieve two thing:

1. a desire for revenge
2. desensitisation - after a while such horrers won't affect anybody anymore.

About giving your enemy a face - I agree, but can't it be done by photos and life stories?

Hugh Johnson said...

I'll have to vote in favor of it.

I remember watching the horror of the USs involvement in Viet Nam. One of the crucial events in turning people well and truly against the war was seeing the horror of it, night after night, on TV. Who could forget the naked girl burned with napalm running down the street? A defining photograph that brought home to all of us the tragedy of it all.

I guess we do run the risk of being desensitized this way. But I do believe that the alternative is news that is sanitized, and a population that, literally, does not know what it is doing.

John said...

hugh, Don't you remember 7/7 or 9/11?

In these 2, not a single body was shown on tv...

barroon said...

John
I said ( to some extend)., i agree that repeating it will drive audience to indifference .
Personaly i do changes chanels if the pictures was to graphic .
But in war they don’t show photos of roses and strip dancers ! it will be photos of destruction and dead bodies .
building are not more important that people ,so why not showing the person who lived and died there ?
I hate it when i see a body in ( iraq- africa- lebanon-wherever) Wrapped in a sheet or black plastic on top of eachother with zerro respect but this is how war is ( not respecting the human life ) so it must be shown as the real image of war

Empathy is more needed than sympathy.

CherokeeDreamer said...

How can anyone believe this garbage?

"The Lebanese could take their fate into their own hands, and not wait for the US to tell Israel to stop (actually, we know the US has rushed and is rushing more bombs to the Israelis for the continuation of the "war", which is clearly no more than the coldblood onslaugh by the Israelis of Lebanese civilians using US precision laser-guided bombs)"

And then to go on to suggest that the Lebanese go south to join the HB and fight to drive out the Israeli's? What? ARe you running out of human shield?

The only real solution to this war is to stop the bombs and begin talking. The Lebanese people, caught in the middle of this war, must realize that the HB have done little good for Lebanon and they have commandeered this whole scenario. Do not fall prey to their deceptive ways. Though the Israelis have struck at the core of Lebanese life and living, had the HB gone to war with ANY neighbor, retalliation naturally would cast them as an enemy. This is what HB wants. Are you so much a puppet that you let HB mold you like this?

The Middle East News Addict said...

Nasbind. Your racist remarks are an indications that you are either Arab or worse than that, a Neo-Nazi who supports the Arabs for destroying the Jews. Anyway as per your remark that Lebanon should not fight Israel's wars; You do not understand this is not Israel's war, it is Lebanon's war. Israel is only doing the job Lebanon should have done in the past 6 years. The fact that the government in Lebanon is afraid of a civil war is no excuse for Israel to sit quietly and suffer the blows. It is in the interests of Lebanon to stop that because they were making huge progress till Hezbollah, aware of the fact it is losing power, dragged them into the war. But I know you do not care about Lebanon. For you Arabs are like Jews and should be destroyed. You proved that when you suggested to send the Lebanese people as human shields to the south. And one final note: If you do believe that this is Israel's war, then why are you so against it?

And to Al-Ghadabulasati, the soldiers were kidnapped from the Israeli side of the border as indicated by the UN. Now I know you do not accept Israel as having any border (i.e. no right to exist) but that is your problem and I think you should really work on it. As for the Shebaa farms being Lebanese, the UN has said it is Syrian,; Syria and Lebanon said it is Lebanese. Yet Syria is not willing to officially sign any document that confirms that. Now why is that? could it be that they think they could use the Lebanese people and Hezbollah to fight their wars for them?

sheer said...

I'm so sorry for all the madness happening now in this war.
Dear Lebanese brothers, please tell me what can be the solution to defend ourselves from Hezbollah who declare themselves as the long long hand of the Iranian ideology of destroying Israel and the western world as well in the name of religion?
Should we sit and accept the terror made by Palestinians? Should we sit and get bombed by the Hezbollah? Please give us a clue, a direction what should we do?!?!
I wish I could know the answer to spread it among my people.
I'm really sorry for the tragedy, I believe in peace and that we're all equal human beings who deserve to live with dignity.
I'm against war and fighting of any kind no matter what the reason is. and I pray for Peace among as all.

Omer (israeli) said...

hello everyone. I hadn't had a chance to read the full 138 comments on this post uptill now.

I want to express my deep regret for the killings in Qana. This should never have happened. Yet it happens again and again (Qana 1996).
I think we can all realise that the war is useless. There will be no decive winnings on either side...
The HE will not disarm, and the Israeli army did not get hit "severly". The casualtiy on either side are not enoght to change any kind of "Reality". Perhaps, the only "Reality" that did change is that of the lebanese civilians and to a lesser extent that of the Israeli's in the north of Israel.

The war, i useless and vile. Qana got me rethinking this whole mess. Israel wants peace with lebanon and war with HE, but as it seems it will get only war and hatred from both. Listen Israel, we dont need any more enemy's, we have enoght as it is, thank you.

I dont care how this war ends. Both Israel and HE are holding the lebanese as hostages. As both have the power to cease-fire at any time, give/exchange prisinors and stop the madness before its too late.
Israel has responsibility since its the one with hands on the trigger.
HE has also the hand on the trigger (towards Israel) and also uses civilians as human shield:

From bbc:

"As for Hezbollah, it has been firing rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas and the UN Humanitarian chief Jan Egeland has accused it of using civilians as cover."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5229834.stm

Kofi annan stated:
"There is strong prima facie evidence that both [sides] have committed grave breaches of international humanitarian law"

The Hezbollah claims to represent Lebanons people, yet it brought on only destruction. They are guilty, for continuing this mess.

Israel uses its war planes in civilian areas, what did we expect? Qana II was only a matter of time. You can't bomb civilian areas without killing civilians.

I myself belive it was a mistake. To anyone who thinks wars can be "Clean" only needs to look at 1991 when the americans mistakenly bomb a shelter killing 400 civilians.

As for "Hezbullaos bombed the building after 8 hours" Or "Hezbullos placed the dead underneath the rubble" are all just Bullshit conspiracy theories. They are no better then other conspiracy theories like "The israeli soldiers were captured inside lebanon" or the "zionist conspiracy".

Point is, everyside trys to bring in theories to hide his own SHAME.
Qana is shamefull.

Gameela said...

Ya Lebnan! Sheddi Hellik! My deepest regrets!!!

Lirun said...

omer i agree..

a movement of false rhetoric is developing.. people are lying because now the propaganda war is taking over and the misinformation bombs are exploding loud and clear..

however.. against these bombs there is no need to run or hide.. we can simply apply our common sense.. remember that at the end of the day we are all humans and realise that both sides are going to be fed a whole lot of crap..

the brilliance of this blog is that we can here test the veracity of the claims of our media.. we can compare and contrast and try to decipher where the truth may in fact possibly exist..

we are blessed by this opportunity.. a small blessing in the midst of a deadly storm..

let us not waste it on aimless bickering..

there is much good work to be done..

peace needs to happen.. lets bring it

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
there is no time other than the present

paxusatoo said...

destrylebanon said"red domino

people you are the shame for our country. Your weakness has emboldened the enemy.

Nobody has any assurances their truck will not be hit, but the numbers show 700,000 HAVE gotten out.

Go red domino fight for the enemy lebanon, that is where your loyalities are. Oh that's right you are fighting for the enemy here online by showing your solidarity with lebanon" Please, tell me you are jewish. Americans praise so much the fact that they are the most civilized country on earth, most of them raised Christians, Humanitarian as they try to depict in every possible media and always so politicaly correct!!! The Arabs are not American enemy, we need their oil!!!!!
By the way, remember why all this started???? How do you think those two israelis soldiers are enjoying the ammenities?????LOL

Sister Sledge said...

My previous post has vanished..or does it take time to post? John, your list was a very good idea, as I think the more knowledge we hve about the different societies the better the dialogue is. I am wondering whether footage of destruction in Israel is shown anywhere in Lebanon. Here there is coverage of Lebanon and demonstrations around the world. Not very extensive coverage, but definitely every night on the news there are reports on refugees and casualties. What about journalists/articles?
Lets hope for a quiet evening..peace everybody.

paxusatoo said...

Let's say that the Mexican government would host an organization that calls for the destruction of the U.S. and fires rockets at Huston.

hmmm...my guess is that the U.S. won't wait for 3 weeks while its citizens flee and hide in shelters trying to pinpoint each rocket launcher in the villages south of the border.

My guess is that the U.S. will erase any town where rockets are fired from, civilians in it or not. Do you think I'm guessing wrong? How do you think the Americans would react? Do you think they'll agree to a cease fire and negotiations with the terrorists? Give them a part of Texas? Release convicted terrorists for kidnapped U.S. troops?


I don't agree with destroylebanon but I think in such a case you'll find a lot of destroymexico on the web.

3:51 PM

ITAI: YOU ARE SO FAR THE MOST REASONABLE BLOGGER.

yuval from tlv said...

some of you may agree and some may not..

i think that both sides are loosing on this one..

the Israelis are also suffering from this war, when 2 million people are sitting in their shelters for the 3rd week, while missiles are flying over their heads.
also Lebanese are suffering greatly by the IDF war plains.

the Quanna recent even is unfortunate when 25 civils were killed, the IDF had shown the missile lunchers firing from that village.

both sides are in a risky game of who's getting hurt more.. surely the civils on both sides are the victims.

HB had lunched an attack on Israel, Israel had responded with heavly bombings.

but i do think that this sad story will get a happy ending, when armed UN forces will take over southern Lebanon, and gain back the "peace" we had.
Lebanese democrasy will get stronger as HB will count as an extremers terror group not helping lebanon to acheave what they so wish for.. same thing on the Israeli side.

but i do think that the biggest loosers of the recent conflict are the PL who hoped to see israel with drawing from the west bank..
unfortunately i guess this will no longer be possible as Israel won't take the chance again, after the Gazza strip and lebanon recent events.

someday the dreamers will become the reality makers, while extremers will find them selfs out.

nasbined, that includes you too.
you don't seem to seek justice, you only seek for war and repay.
you're blinded hate.

it's people like Doha who will finally get their dreams come true once a strong soverign democratic nation - Lebanon, will be possible.

El Guh said...

They were warned to leave. It is the responsibility of Hezbollah for firing rockets amid civilians.Terrorists and their supporters have lost the right to complain about civilian casualties, since all they have is one goal: this entire war is to target civilians. Every single one of the more than 2,500 rockets launched into Israel, is launched into populated towns filled with women and children.

Lebnese Liona said...

Some of these responses are sick....

I am not posting my response to the Isreali people because they are the enemy and they would not understand. I cant blame them for their thoughts and opinions. But this is directed to every lebanese.


Here HB is sacrificing their families homes and souls for the protection of lebanon, yet to this moment I am sorry to say some of my fellow lebanese brothers still call Hezbula terrorist extremists.

What a shame,

FACT--- HB fighters were the most well behaved group of armed militia men in lebanon, especially when they could have done anything they wanted after israel was defeated in 2000. Isnt you guys who say that HB is stronger then the goverment itself? So what stoped them from taking over the country and imposing an islamic iranian rule!!

Can any of you christian and deruzz lebanese in Jabel Lebnan and Jounieh and Beirut say that you were ever harrassed by a HB memeber? You know the answer!!

FACT--- Isreal did not differentiate between innocent , resistance and UN in its slaughter in 1996

FACT--- IDF still does not differentiate between innocent, UN,and resistance in 2006.

FACT--- Isreal refuses to allow a neigboring country to grow strong because it will always feel threatened.

FACT--- HB already won this conflict no matter what Isreal acheives in the next days weeks months

FACT--- HB is a lebanese first resistance , is and will be part of the labanon now and forever.

SAD FACT--- Isreal retalaition is a way to revenge what happened in 2000 and make the southern lebanese pay the price for being the heart and sole of the resistance.

VERY SAD FACT --- If EVENTS OF QANA does not prove to you that every isreali has the NAZI symbol, the same symbol that committed the horrifying acts of the holocust stamped on their forehead then I dont know if anything ever will prove to you what they truly are!!!



nough said.

LL

Dimitry said...

FACT--- Isreal refuses to allow a neigboring country to grow strong because it will always feel threatened.

Yes, this is why, thanks for the peace treaties with Israel, Egypt and Jordan have nice, modern, American armies. Egypt at the moment is posing more serious military threat to Israel since, like, 48. But hey, you know, FACTs.


SAD FACT--- Isreal retalaition is a way to revenge what happened in 2000 and make the southern lebanese pay the price for being the heart and sole of the resistance.

In 2000, Ehud Barak decided to sell a myth that Hiz only wants to liberate Lebanon, and if we leave, they would not attack us. He succesfully sold it, and Israel celebrated leaving Lebanon. You don't avenge a cause of celebration. Israel is attacking because Barak's promise was completely false, and Hiz continued to attack Israeland arming himself so he could attack Israel more. But, yeah, right, a FACT.

Lebnese Liona said...

dimitry,

HB WILL FIGHT UNTLL YOU GIVE BACK SHEEBA FARMS, PRISONER EXCHANGE AND LAND MINES MAPS

BY the way, you guys are the most parnoid people in the world. Sometimes I wonder if your army was founded for the people of isreal or the people of isreal were founded to jestify the war criminal machine IDF!!!

HERE IS ANOTHER FACT FOR YOU YOU CAN TAKE TO THE BANK---- USA just like any other power house in history, the day when the USA is not a power house will come not in my life time and yours but when it does , YOU'D BETTER WATCH OUT. BECAUSE SOME ANGRY 2 BILLION PLUS MUSLIMS/ARABS IN THE WORLD ARE GOING TO COME AND EAT YOU UP WITH THEIR BAREHANDS!!!!

TAKE THAT TO THE BANK

LL

Dimitry said...

HB WILL FIGHT UNTLL YOU GIVE BACK SHEEBA FARMS, PRISONER EXCHANGE AND LAND MINES MAPS

And then, they will invent something new, and keep fighting. This is not paranoia. This is having basic familiarity with Hizballah's declared aims. Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, perhaps, or Golan Heights.

Besides, having your country destroyed for a few squares kms of Syrian land that was merely leased to you, and for the freedom of a man who bashed in the head of a 4 years old girl... I dunno, I personally value my country a bit than that. Then again, I walways wanted my country to be a real soveriegn country, something I can't say for you (soveriegn countries don't have militias). As for mine maps, this issue is pretty much completely unfamiliar in Israel, but my guess is that if Lebanon's army was at the border and not a militia run by religious fanatic, Israel would've been much more willing to supply you with the maps.


And just a quick histroy lesson - American support of Israel started at the 70s. It managed fine.

dunes said...

Lebnese Liona:
you are sick want to hear some facts?
Fact --- Hb started this whole mess.
Fact --- All lebanese prisoners in israli jails have blood of inoccent isralis children and women.
Fact --- israel can wipe lebanon in a single day if it wanted so.
Fact --- isral left lebanon in 2006 becuase of the will of the israli citizens.
fact --- every lebanese in the south that carry a gun would have like to use it on a jew.
Fact --- HB is a terroris groupe that aims at civillians.
Fact --- HB is a terrorist group that hides behind civilians.
Fact --- HB there was no massacre at qana not in 1996 and not this week
Fact --- if HB wouldnt have fired then israel wouldbnt have fired back blowing lebanon back to the 1900
Fact --- your eyes are blinded
yes i am your enemy but not because i choose to be but becuase you choose so....
ohhhh one last fact ...
Fact --- every terrorist action in the last 10 years and more was created by muslim's

dunes said...

Dimitry:
as probobly Lebnese Liona is an arab i wouldnt expect to understand that life has more value then land or honor.

Gidi said...

As usual, I take any and all reports made by AP, Lebaese and international news channels such as Al Jazzira, with a pinch of salt.
This is, because over almost sixty years of familiarity with our neighbors, we have grown to realize that our dear neighbors are bold-faced liers. Unfortunally, the international community hasn't caught on yet.

I hereby link you to the official report by the ICRC about the tragic event in Quana: http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/Lebanon-news-300706!OpenDocument

All those whom boldy accuse Israel of propaganda, please read the following link, telling the truth about why the UN outpost was hit. Of course, after outrage on every news channel in the world, no one seems to bother to acknowledge this crutial piece of information that was only made public after the UN Sec. Gen.'s accusations: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=b4923801-9def-4606-af6a-bc5eea30b89b

I do not belittle the suffering of the Lenanese people; I acknowledge it, and I feel deeply sorry for it. Most Israeli's do. Yet even so, I openly question officially published figures of Lebanese civilian death toll. I am deeply skeptical about how we're being told that most of the dead are women and children. I find that curious and suspicious. (I recall a segment from Al Manaar showing a man clearing the rubble of a hourse claiming there were eight dead there -- all women and children. I ask you, if those are civilian houses, where are the men?) I also feel for all those displaced persons, from Southern Lebanon and from Beirut itself (More than 5,000 homes were destroyed in Northern Israel, many more were damaged). But I do not accept the claim that Beirut is destroyed; most airstrikes were made in the Dahia, and all news reports from the city clearly show that a substancial part of the city is still standing.

Thus, I take these two things as seperate: The innocents of Lebanon have my deepest sympathies and wishes for their safty; at the same time the lies that you all "sell" here on the web, and everywhere else are transparent to me. I do not believe you, and thus I retain my moral high-ground.

Hugh Johnson said...

gidi - your comments about the bombing the UN compound and your link to the story just simply do not hold water. Although I am sceptical of their truth (you seem to dismiss the truth of other reporting but, selectively, believe this one? Odd), if, indeed, it is true, it is nonetheless absolutely no justification of the facts on the ground. And that is something that pro-Israeli posters just love to do - justify their horror.

Let's be clear on something: mobile launchers are M O B I L E! Duh! You light off a rocket, and drive like hell. The F16s come in even 10 minutes later and, what a surprise, they're GONE! Because they're M O B I L E. It is nothing less than outrageous that you would attempt to justify a bombing of a UN compound because rockets were allegedly launched from someplace NEAR them.

One of the stated goals of the IDF is to destroy mobile launchers. This does not actually include ALL STRUCTURES NEAR THEM. It is tragic and pathetic that people would condemn to death those who have the misfortune to be near a launcher.

Another point, the US (thanks to the generosity of George "The Worst President in the History of the United States" Bush) supplies Israel with the highest technology smart bombs. The exact location of all the UN compounds in Lebanon is well known to the IDF. There can be no doubt whatsoever that the IDF specifically targeted that compound - to say nothing of the question of why on earth Israel blows up buildings NEXT TO the sites of rocket launchers? I thought they wanted to actually blow up the launchers themselves. Or, as I imagine, they are at least as interested in blowing up as many people as they can. It's the "Gas Up the Tanks and Kill Everybody" school of thought. Shameful and criminal.

Sorry, there is absolutely no excuse. None. Shame on Israel. Shame. You bastards. You murderers.

Fearless said...

Hizbouliwood?




Regardez les photos de 1996 la même personne du Hizboullah:


Hizballah's Body Handler Photographed in 1996

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/07/who-is-this-man.html



EU Referendum has an update on the Hizballah “rescue worker” in the green helmet, the guy who paraded around with children’s bodies for hours at Qana, posing them for photographers.

Turns out that Green Helmet Guy must be the official Hizballah body handler; he has a history of turning up at attack sites and putting on ghoulish shows. EU Referendum found a photo from 1996, apparently showing the same person displaying another dead child to photographers: Who Is This Man? (WARNING: Graphic images.)


Death Cult Family Snapshots

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2006/July/middleeast_July743.xml§ion=middleeast&col=
Here’s a glowing al-Reuters review of the Hizballah death cult instilled in families from infancy as part of their religious training: Zest for martyrdom fuels Hezbollah in battle.

BEIRUT - A sister of Hezbollah fighter Mustafa Zalzali wears mourning black for her brother, but his death in battle with Israel elicits more pride than grief.“We thank God almighty for making us the family of a martyr,” she said. “We received the news of his martyrdom with pride,” she told Hezbollah’s al-Manar television.

Hezbollah guerrillas are well armed and trained. But one of the group’s greatest assets in its war with Israel is the willingness of its fighters to die for their cause.

Hezbollah has killed 33 Israeli soldiers, including some of the army’s best, in the war triggered when the guerrillas captured two soldiers in a raid into Israel on July 12.

“Hezbollah’s strength really lies in its fighters — that they are ready for death,” Hezbollah expert Amal Saad-Ghorayeb said. “The edge they have is their steadfastness and resolve, which is derived from their religious ideology.”

And it’s a suicide game the whole family must play:

The family of Zalzali, killed in a recent battle, say they are ready for more sacrifices.

“His martyrdom has lifted our heads high,” said another of his sisters. “Whatever more we can offer, we will. Our men, our children, our siblings.”



THE UN - UNIFIL


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=X3HGXPKEXXXE5QFIQMGCFGGAVCBQUIV0?view=BLOGDETAIL&grid=P30&blog=yourview&xml=/news/2006/07/31/ublview31.xml

The question is not so much one of the UN's competence but rather one of the impartiality of those representing the UN.

UNIFIL has been operating in Southern Lebanon for 28 years. During that time several of the soldiers serving as UNIFIL observers have married local Lebanese women and settled down there, meanwhile continuing as UNIFIL observers. How can UNIFIL fulfil its role impartially when some of those who are supposed to be doing that job are, literally, in bed with Hezbollah?

To understand the pretext which Hezbollah uses to try and justify its actions you need to know that in the 1967 6-day war one of the areas which Israel captured from Syria is a small area on the border with Syria, Israel and Lebanon called Shebaa Farms. In 2000 when Israel pulled out of Lebanon it pulled out of all Lebanese territory that it had occupied. It did not pull out of any Syrian territory and so did not pull out of Shebaa Farms. At the time the UN and the wider international community recognized that Israel had pulled out of all Lebanese territory. Hezbollah invented the claim that Shebaa Farms was really a part of Lebanon and used that as a pretext for continuing to target Israel.

Now go to the weblog of Garth Turner MP - link. He is an MP in the Canadian parliament and on that page he has put an email from the Canadian, a Major in the Canadian army, who was killed when Israel destroyed the UN observer post at Khiam where he was an observer for the UN. Scroll down to where he describes what happened on the 3rd February 2006 -

"On 03 Feb 06, a limited engagement took place initiated by the Hezbollah on several of the IDF defensive positions located in occupied Lebanon."

Note that Khiam is very near to Shebaa Farms. Note also that in February Israel was not occupying any of Lebanon but was most certainly occupying Shebaa Farms. When the Major says "the IDF defensive positions located in occupied Lebanon" he can only be talking about Shebaa Farms, but the form of words which he uses are those of Hezbollah not of the UN. So, who was he representing when he died, Hezbollah, the UN, or both?

Hugh Johnson said...

fearless - There may be one thing you fear the most - FACTS.

The fact of the matter is that the UN drew out very specific borders for the land of Israel in 1947. The borders of Israel today are much much larger.

The fact of the matter is that the Balfour Declaration stated quite clearly that any creation of a state of Israel should not interfere with the local, indiginous population. Perhaps the member of the Irgun and the Stern Gang (the Middle East's first terror cells) didn't read that part. Oh yes, the members of those groups? Yitzak Rabin, Menachim Begin, Ariel Sharon, Shimon Peres. Terrorists all!

The fact of the matter is that it is pathetic and downright stupid of you to accuse the entire mission of the UN to be useless because some of its soldiers fall in love and marry a local. That, my dear fearless, is none of your fuc*king business and has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Grow up!

The fact of the matter is that it does not matter one wit whether Shebaa Farms is part of Lebanon or Syria. The IMPORTANT part is that it is NOT PART OF ISRAEL.

The fact of the matter is that the Zionists cut a very sweet deal with the scumbag politicians of the day in being able to poach a territory that was inhabited by almost a million Palestinians. They, since that blessing, have terrorized their neighbors, intimidated them, imprisoned them, and murdered them. They have also managed to EXPAND their territory far beyond what it was meant to be.

Please, spare me your pathetic bullsh*t. It is quite obvious to those of us who have brains who the hostile neighbor is.

Fearless said...

" Les gens les plus hypocrites de la terre"

"Les politiques, les journalistes et les intellectuels du Liban ont connu, ces jours, le choc de leur vie. Ils savaient bien que le Hezbollah avait constitué un Etat indépendant dans notre pays, un Etat incluant tous les ministères et les institutions parallèles, en double de ceux du Liban. Ce qu’ils ignoraient, qu’ils découvrent à la faveur de cette guerre, et qui les paralyse de surprise et d’effroi, ce sont les dimensions de cette phagocytose...

...Nous savions que l’Iran, par l’intermédiaire du Hezbollah, construisait une véritable ligne Maginot au Sud mais ce sont les images de Maroun el-Ras et de Bint J’bail qui nous ont révélé l’ampleur de ces travaux. Une dimension qui nous a fait comprendre plusieurs choses d’un seul coup : que nous n’étions plus maîtres de notre sort. Que nous ne possédions pas le commencement des moyens nécessaires à inverser le cours de cet état de fait, et que ceux qui avaient fait de notre pays la base avancée du combat de leur doctrine islamique contre Israël n’avaient pas la moindre intention de renoncer volontairement à leur emprise...

...Toutes les personnes assumant des responsabilités publiques et informationnelles dans ce pays sont responsables de la catastrophe...L’hypocrisie se poursuit : même certains éditorialistes du respectable L’Orient-le-Jour mettent dos à dos la sauvagerie du Hezbollah et celle des Israéliens. Honte ! Veulerie ! Et nous serions qui, dans cette fable ? Les pauvres victimes ad aeternam des ambitions des autres ?

Les hommes politiques soit soutiennent cette thèse insensée, soit se taisent...Chaque fortin irano-syrien que Jérusalem détruit, chaque combattant islamique qu’elle élimine, et c’est le Liban qui se remet proportionnellement à revivre ! Les soldats d’Israël font, une nouvelle fois, notre travail. A nouveau, comme en 82, nous assistons, lâches, terrés, minables et en les insultant, en plus, à leur sacrifice héroïque qui nous permet de conserver l’espoir..."

Fearless said...

Source: L'Orient le Jour - LIBAN

Les habitants organisent des patrouilles pour empêcher les tirs de Katioucha à partir des zones encore peuplées

Ibrahim Andraos pleure sa maison détruite à Aïn Ebel, bourgade chrétienne du Liban-Sud : le Hezbollah avait installé une rampe de missiles sur le toit en pleine nuit, et la riposte d’Israël a éte cinglante, rapporte Béatrice Khadige, de l’AFP.

Pour sauver ce qui peut l’être dans les bourgades proches de Bint Jbeil, le bastion intégriste attaqué sans répit depuis une semaine par l’armée israélienne, les habitants qui n’ont pas fui organisent des patrouilles pour empêcher les combattants intégristes de déployer des armes (à partir des zones peuplées) et attirer sur leurs villages les foudres de Tsahal, souligne l’AFP.

Pour Ibrahim, un sexagénaire, qui a travaillé des années dans le Golfe et en Afrique avant de rentrer chez lui, cette précaution est arrivée trop tard.

Et c’est au plus noir d’une nuit récente que le malheur s’est abattu sur lui. « Il était une heure du matin, mercredi, et nous étions sans électricité. Nous avons entendu des gens parler : c’était les combattants du Hezbollah. Ils ont installé un lance-missiles sur le toit et ils en ont tiré au moins cinq », souligne-t-il.

Il ne lui restait plus qu’à fuir. « Nous sommes tous sortis pour courir nous abriter au bas du village », raconte Hassan devant les ruines noircies de sa maison. La frappe israélienne a détruit quatre autres habitations: celles de ses frères et de ses cousins, dont il ne reste que des pans de mur écroulés.

Pris dans le feu croisé d’une guerre qui n’est pas la sienne, Ibrahim, suivi de sa femme et de ses sept enfants, a rejoint la cohorte des déplacés qui, depuis plus de deux semaines, sont les victimes du face-à-face entre Israël et le Hezbollah.

Et il a gagné Rmeich, un autre village chrétien du secteur où des milliers d’habitants de la région se sont mis à l’abri. Il y a retrouvé bon nombre de ses voisins d’Aïn Ebel, à qui l’armée israélienne avait ordonné de partir en larguant des tracts les sommant de quitter leur village.

À Rmeich aussi, les combattants du Hezbollah sont venus tirer des missiles contre les positions de l’armée israélienne et contre le nord de l’État hébreu. Mais ils ne l’ont fait qu’une fois : « La semaine dernière, ils ont installé leurs lance-missiles entre les habitations », affirme un habitant de cette agglomération, qui se présente sous le seul nom de Tony. « Quand les Israéliens ont frappé, il y a eu quatre civils tués. » « Depuis, toutes les nuits, des jeunes gens patrouillent dans les quartiers pour empêcher que le Hezbollah ne vienne provoquer des morts », ajoute-t-il, cité par l’AFP.

Identifier les combattants n’est pas chose facile, assure l’un de ces jeunes gens : « Ils sont habillés comme nous, en tee-shirt et pantalon, mais d’autres sont en uniforme militaire. »

Selon d’autres témoignages, les combattants du Hezbollah tentent également d’empêcher les civils de quitter leurs villages : « Ils veulent nous empêcher de partir d’ici », affirme une femme de la région, qui ne veut pas dire son nom.

Hugh Johnson said...

'Fraid I don't speak French. Do you have that in English?

C. J. America said...

War is a terrible monster. As a young girl, I never thought WWII would end. When I saw my first terrorist boming, I was in shock. As a young girl, I saw segraga-tion. At age six, I knew it was evil. As a teen in the late 50's and early 60's I decided to take whatever stand I could against bigotry, hatered, killing, and suffering. I looked for ways that I could join the fight without violence to let my voice be heard. When I could vote, I made sure I stood against socialism, or those in government who would not take a stand for justice and truth. I would volunteer to help the poor, sick and children.

I have no intellectual words that I can add that have not been put out on the blogs. I do know as a grandmother, that all people who love life, freedom and truth must not loose faith in times of suffering. We have history books that show the faith of many from every race around the world.

I believe in Lebanon. I believe that the people young and old Christian or Muslim can make peace a way of life. In time of war, distruction and death overcome hope and faith. But as peace loving people from all the world nations who believe in freedom you must speak out against every terrorist group. Vote for those men and women who want a free society and who will not be held hostage by those who want to over come freedom with dictatorship by government or religon.

I never thought I would see the Berlin Wall come down. I never thought I would see Lebanon free of Syria but it happened.

The war will end and I have faith that Lebanon will be rebuilt into the grand nation it once was with many nations by her side. I believe if the people want free-dom and not having to live with terrorists in its midst, it will happen. The voice of many standing for freedom and taking back their government from the influence of terriorists can happen. Fear cripples anyone or any nation. However, action and persistance overcomes fear and brings freedom to those who fight the good fight.

Lebanon is not alone. There are countries working in the back ground to bring a way for enduring peace to Lebanon and Israel. Millions of us pray and send support for the hurt and homeless.

Terrorists will derail a country by ensuring that death and distruction will keep the people prisoners of fear as part of a plan to stop an eduring peace that brings nations together. Strong and working together instead of against one another.

Dimitry said...

hugh,
Ah, where to start, where to start...


The fact of the matter is that the UN drew out very specific borders for the land of Israel in 1947. The borders of Israel today are much much larger.

Well, the Arabs rejected those borders, and started a war, attempting to destroy Israel. I find the "oops, well, we failed to kill you all, let's go back to the original version" attitude offensive. It triviliazes the deaths of those involved and the destruction the war wrought.


Yitzak Rabin, Menachim Begin, Ariel Sharon, Shimon Peres.

Just for the record, because you appears to be living under the illusion you know a squat about history, this is almost complete bull. You were right only about Begin. Rabin and Sharon were in the Palmach, which was the elite force of the Haganna, and as for Peres, if he took part it was also in the lines of the Haganna.


The fact of the matter is that it does not matter one wit whether Shebaa Farms is part of Lebanon or Syria. The IMPORTANT part is that it is NOT PART OF ISRAEL.

Thank you. I've been claiming all along that Hiz isn't fighting for Lebanese interests, and if and when it's current lists of demands would be fullfilled, it'll find new ones.


Please, spare me your pathetic bullsh*t. It is quite obvious to those of us who have brains who the hostile neighbor is.

Yup. As all the Soviet press said in 48, "Israel declared it's indepndence and immideately attacked all its neighbours."

The facts are quite clear and there for all to see. Any border that Israel wasn't attacked on, was quite. Always. Lebanon before Black September. Jordan after. Egypt since the peace treaty. Might as well include Syrian border since 74 or so, since while occasionally there were attacks, they were due to the Syrian-arranged attacks on Israel from Lebanon.

aldara said...

to Israel,
please leave palestian people to leave in peace, leave lebanese leave in peace...leave your neibourgh leave in peace.
you are just destroying everything since israel stated was created.
I think some of your relatives came from the states, from southamerica, from europe looking for your primise land.

ask your parents, your grandparents, your relatives if it is worth leaving like that.. always
afraid of attacks, always with people from the rest of the world saying that you are killers.

tell me do not your families leave better in their countries before moving to israel?

does it make sense to leave in these way just because the religion says that this is your primised land.

does make any sense?

Dimitry said...

aldara,

Israel is trying with all it's strength to leave it's neighbours. Somehow, with those neighbours who don't attack Israel and don't allow attacks on Israel from their territory, it works. With those who don't, it doesn't. Any idea why it could be?

MalcolmX said...

Dear Doha,
this world is full of misery and pain. I appreciate what you wrote to let people know what is going on in Lebanon. Believe me, God is with Justice and he knows where Justice lie.

Sherri said...

The massacre in Qana was horrible and it is shameful that the world sits back and watches, for three weeks now, while innocent women and chidren are bombed and killed in Lebanon. I am an American Christian and I am ashamed of my country's role in this.

In the US, the media report this as part of the "war on terror." And news stations blame the civilian victims for there deaths even, making a big deal out of the leaflets that warned them of the bombings. I actually heard Bush refer to 9/11 today in a speech and say "there will be no ceasefire", as if it were his war. It is unbelievable the deception and lies that this evil Bush administration has deceived people in my country into believing. And he makes a point to often refer to God in his speeches, but I don't know his God. My God does not advocate the murder of babies and innocent people in a conflict. And there is intense and rising hate for all Muslims, that he stirs up. People act as if every Muslim in the world participated in 9/11.

I pray every day for the fighting to stop there. I pray for the Christians there. I pray for a just resolution to the Palestinian Occupation, which seems to be the underlying issue that keeps fueling the cycles of violence between Israel and its neighbors. Everyone deserves justice, the Palestinians, Lebanon, and Israel. Justice can only arise diplomatically, not by killing babies. There was one baby buried not even one day old. God, please intervene and stop this. I went to church Sunday, Sunday School and Bible Study, and I was the only person to even ask for prayers for Lebanon. I am so ashamed of my country.

ARTISTAS DE BUENOS AIRES said...

¿Por qué ?
No entiendo esta guerra.
Podría alguien explicarme.

Why?
I do not understand this war.
Somebody could explain to me.

Pourquoi ?
Je ne comprends pas cette guerre.
Pourrait quelqu'un expliquer je.

¿Por qué?
Eu não compreendo esta guerra.
Alguém poderia explicar-meo.

Damit?
Ich verstehe nicht diesen Krieg.
Jemand könnte mir erklären.

Ma, Per que?
Non capisco questa guerra.
Qualcuno potrebbe spiegare a me.

Så att?
Jag förstår inte att denna kriger.
Någon kunde förklara.

Zodat?
Ik begrijp deze oorlog niet.
Somebody kon verklaren.

因此?
我不瞭解這場戰爭。
某人可能解釋。

Έτσι ώστε;
Δεν καταλαβαίνω αυτόν τον πόλεμο.
Κάποιος θα μπορούσε να εξηγήσει.

Так НОП?
Я не понимаю это войну.
Кто-нибудь смогло объяснить.

Bondservant said...

Lebanon you sleep with the devil (Hizballah) you wake up with destruction. Make the "moderate" Arabs hate Israel "more" ? Please, they ALL want her thrown into the sea.And any stand back Arab nations may do is to cover their own butts because they fear Iran taking them over not for any support or positive feeling they may have for Israel. Lebanon made a choice by their letting Hizballah rise up amongst them, tehy are part of the governement , they are now reaping what they have sown and I have sympathy for them.

abou al jamejem said...

I would like you guys to excuse me just a bit, especially those of you who don't speak arabic. Ayri bi Neseralla, Wayri bi Lahood el mastoul, w ari bi Michel Aon el khayen, dammarou el balad. Now I would like to translate what I just said. Fuck Neseralla, fuck Emil Lahood our Idiot president, and fuck Michel Aoun the former General who became pro Syrian. When the fuck Iran and Syria are going to leave us alone. Iran should be destroyed. All of you guys who support Huzeballa are bunch of idiots. Huseballa dosen't give a fuck about us, they care more about their masters in Iran and Syria. Hasan neseralla Ayri betrayed not only lebanon but his own people. thank you all.