Friday, July 21, 2006

Wearing Black And Longing For Blue


My Mediterranean is wearing black. Mourning the lost summer season, mourning the deaths and destruction, mourning its longing for a happy crowd and a tranquil sky, mourning the reflection of the green mountains of Jabal Loubnan.

Experts say that there might be one or the other reason for this: Either it's because of the increased activity of ships coming on the Lebanese coast as of 7 days, or the fuel that might have leaked out when the Israel warship sank last week.



"Nobody knows how many rebellions, besides political rebellions, ferment in the masses of life which people earth."

97 comments:

Ilan said...

I wish those experts could help solve this situation and stop the killing on both sides.


Ilan - No War

eli said...

no israeli ship sank.

erydan said...

This is classic...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006330629,00.html

EXILED preacher of hate Omar Bakri has begged the Royal Navy to rescue him from war-torn Beirut...

...The mad mullah, who hailed terrorists as “magnificent” martyrs, bought a £150,000 bolthole in the exclusive Doha district of Beirut.

In March he boasted: “When I left England I bought a one-way ticket out. I never want to see the place again.”

But cowardly Bakri changed his tune as soon as bombs started dropping.

Moon River said...

I'm sorry, so very sorry for what is happening in Lebannon!
We start to hear more and more people from your country calling for stopping Hizbulla.

For the world sake it is a holy mission. i hope you see that.
i want to add an article written by Noni Darwish, a brave woman:

and here "Brought up to Hate", an article by her:

Noni Darwish, an Arab Muslim whose father is an honored martyr in Egypt, Gaza and the West Bank. Nasser had him set up the Palestinian Fedayeen during the 50's in Gaza. He was responsible for the deaths of 400 Israelis. As a Muslim and an Arab who lived 30 years in Gaza and Egypt, she has an important perspective about her own religion and the poisonous culture of hatred throughout the region.



Brought Up To Hate



By Nonie Darwish
Telegraph.co.uk | February 17, 2006

The controversy regarding the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed completely misses the point. Of course, the cartoons are offensive to Muslims, but newspaper cartoons do not warrant the burning of buildings and the killing of innocent people. The cartoons did not cause the disease of hate that we are seeing in the Muslim world on our television screens at night - they are only a symptom of a far greater disease.

I was born and raised as a Muslim in Cairo, Egypt and in the Gaza Strip. In the 1950s, my father was sent by Egypt's President, Gamal Abdel Nasser, to head the Egyptian military intelligence in Gaza and the Sinai where he founded the Palestinian Fedayeen, or "armed resistance". They made cross-border attacks into Israel, killing 400 Israelis and wounding more than 900 others.

My father was killed as a result of the Fedayeen operations when I was eight years old. He was hailed by Nasser as a national hero and was considered a shaheed, or martyr. In his speech announcing the nationalisation of the Suez Canal, Nasser vowed that all of Egypt would take revenge for my father's death. My siblings and I were asked by Nasser: "Which one of you will avenge your father's death by killing Jews?" We looked at each other speechless, unable to answer.

In school in Gaza, I learned hate, vengeance and retaliation. Peace was never an option, as it was considered a sign of defeat and weakness. At school we sang songs with verses calling Jews "dogs" (in Arab culture, dogs are considered unclean).

Criticism and questioning were forbidden. When I did either of these, I was told: "Muslims cannot love the enemies of God, and those who do will get no mercy in hell." As a young woman, I visited a Christian friend in Cairo during Friday prayers, and we both heard the verbal attacks on Christians and Jews from the loudspeakers outside the mosque. They said: "May God destroy the infidels and the Jews, the enemies of God. We are not to befriend them or make treaties with them." We heard worshippers respond "Amen".

My friend looked scared; I was ashamed. That was when I first realised that something was very wrong in the way my religion was taught and practised. Sadly, the way I was raised was not unique. Hundreds of millions of other Muslims also have been raised with the same hatred of the West and Israel as a way to distract from the failings of their leaders. Things have not changed since I was a little girl in the 1950s.

Palestinian television extols terrorists, and textbooks still deny the existence of Israel. More than 300 Palestinians schools are named after shaheeds, including my father. Roads in both Egypt and Gaza still bear his name - as they do of other "martyrs". What sort of message does that send about the role of terrorists? That they are heroes. Leaders who signed peace treaties, such as President Anwar Sadat, have been assassinated. Today, the Islamo-fascist president of Iran uses nuclear dreams, Holocaust denials and threats to "wipe Israel off the map" as a way to maintain control of his divided country.

Indeed, with Denmark set to assume the rotating presidency of the UN Security Council, the flames of the cartoon controversy have been fanned by Iran and Syria. This is critical since the International Atomic Energy Agency is expected to refer Iran to the Security Council and demand sanctions. At the same time, Syria is under scrutiny for its actions in Lebanon. Both Iran and Syria cynically want to embarrass the Danes to achieve their dangerous goals.

But the rallies and riots come from a public ripe with rage. From my childhood in Gaza until today, blaming Israel and the West has been an industry in the Muslim world. Whenever peace seemed attainable, Palestinian leaders found groups who would do everything to sabotage it. They allowed their people to be used as the front line of Arab jihad. Dictators in countries surrounding the Palestinians were only too happy to exploit the Palestinians as a diversion from problems in their own backyards. The only voice outside of government control in these areas has been the mosques, and these places of worship have been filled with talk of jihad.

Is it any surprise that after decades of indoctrination in a culture of hate, that people actually do hate? Arab society has created a system of relying on fear of a common enemy. It's a system that has brought them much-needed unity, cohesion and compliance in a region ravaged by tribal feuds, instability, violence, and selfish corruption. So Arab leaders blame Jews and Christians rather than provide good schools, roads, hospitals, housing, jobs, or hope to their people.

For 30 years I lived inside this war zone of oppressive dictatorships and police states. Citizens competed to appease and glorify their dictators, but they looked the other way when Muslims tortured and terrorised other Muslims. I witnessed honour killings of girls, oppression of women, female genital mutilation, polygamy and its devastating effect on family relations. All of this is destroying the Muslim faith from within.

It's time for Arabs and Muslims to stand up for their families. We must stop allowing our leaders to use the West and Israel as an excuse to distract from their own failed leadership and their citizens' lack of freedoms. It's time to stop allowing Arab leaders to complain about cartoons while turning a blind eye to people who defame Islam by holding Korans in one hand while murdering innocent people with the other.

Muslims need jobs - not jihad. Apologies about cartoons will not solve the problems. What is needed is hope and not hate. Unless we recognise that the culture of hate is the true root of the riots surrounding this cartoon controversy, this violent overreaction will only be the start of a clash of civilis-ations that the world cannot bear.



Link to article
http://frontpagemag.com/articles/readarticle.asp?ID=21322

Lirun said...

moon river..

nice find..

ok lets bring out the darwish in each of us :)

lirun
telaviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
"peace to the eastern mediterranean"

francois said...

might be the fuel tanks that the israely airforces and navy targetted...


after killing , they are polluting lebanon

Muxecoid said...

Will probably harm the ecology of the whole eastern part of mediterainean.

It is reported that forests on the north suffered a lot from Hizbullah attacks, wildlife activists are trying to save deers there.

Gidi said...

Dear Francois,

Here's to wondering whether people like you would recognize a lowly propogandist if one such would land squarly on their head.

jewfie said...

First I apologize for posting something unrelated to the blog post.

Jad J,
Thanks for your compliment and I have a question for you.

You said that Lebanon needs time in order to dismantle the HA militias. What makes you think that you can ever have that time?

I believe that HA's raison d'etre is 'the resistance'. I am not sure it will sit quietly and let itself slip away.
Worse though is that HA is an important strategic asset for Iran and Syria. Like you mentioned, although HA is Lebanese its agenda is not Lebanese. Iran and Syria care for their own interests more than for the Lebanese people. If the atmosphere will change and the existance of HA is endagered, they can work to change that by using HA to incite another violent conflict with Israel. I think that this is at least part for the reason of the current situation.
What do you think?

H@KIM said...

we support you all

wintermotek said...

A Demo

against a second Lebanon war

Sat. July 22, in Tel Aviv

meet at 18:30 at Kikar Rabin

Stop the killing and the destruction in Lebanon, Gaza and Israel

Amon Ra said...

It may be slightly irrelevant but what about the reaction of UN. Would anybody like to comment on that???

I mean there is a well established idea from previous posts about the role of Israel, Iran, etc... but why UN, which in other cases in the past seemed to support a certain position, now they merely speak about a ceasefire when they know that is not such a simple issue?

Eran Tel-Aviv said...

not the sea, pleae not the sea that thoe only thibg we have left here in the levant. I cherish every moment i have to go to the sea side. I live 5 min walk fromthe foam of the waves. How symbolic of nature.....

moon river.....
Nomi Darwish is a moral woman and true symbol for a new hope - why are there so few of them.....She shuold be posted on every corner not that bearer of hate - Nazralah...

zauber said...

Here, from Argentina, we support Lebanon.

http://www.angorya.com.ar

Martina said...

Hello,

I'm a german woman, 42, and at the moment I'm at work in Munich. I'm very sorry for ALL people who suffer under the war in Lebanon/Israel. Why is it so difficult to let other human beings live as they want to live? If someone is Christ, Muslim,Jew or Non-Religious - WE ARE ALL THE SAME!!! It does'nt matter if you're black, white, yellow or red and it also doesn't matter if you love man, women or both. IT'S ONLY ONE WORLD FOR ALL OF US - but unfortunately so many people are having fun in oppressing the others who are different in colour, religion or sexual preference. That makes me so sad!!!!

I wish you all much power to get over the actual situation and to handle it bravely like all of you do.

My heart is with you and I pray to God (or Allah or something Unnamed) that in the end love and peace will win!!!


Martina

GSH - Observer said...

amon ra;
the US,EU and Sausia Arabia(KSA) have decided how thins will go in the region for the time being, which pretty much sum up the decision of the UN.

Amon Ra said...

gsh;

I absolutely agree but in such a case what is the reason all these discussions take place???

People speak about peace but if public opinion does not have any influence at all then maybe we should re-evaluate what we are saying and for what purpose....

NoWhereMan said...

That article from Nomi Darwish is very thought provoking. This war will probably be another drop in the bucket. Lebanon had been making progress but now the economy is in ruins. How many young Lebanese men will not be able to find employment now? The tourist trade will not pump money into the economy like it did before the war. There will be a call for charity and some rebuilding after the bombs stop dropping. I am sure businessmen will take a hard look before they invest any money in a region where Hezbollay can arbitrarily capture soldiers or fire rockets. The immediate future looks bleak. I suspect the short term charity may be less generous due to the way the Lebanese government tolerated Hezbollah. If the government does not disarm the fanatics, why help the Lebanese people rebuild new targets for the next war?

GSH - Observer said...

amon ra;

true, people can shout and protest till the cow comes home, and nothing will change, not only in the arab world , but in the democratic countries too (i call it false democracy).

as for "The reason":
in my opinion the US and EU are fed up with HA and other extremests movements (wich tehy brand as terrorists also).

AS for KSA:
KSA doens't want to see the Shiia getting too strong in the area (KSA is Sunna as you know)
if you look carefully at the ME you'll find the following:
1. Iran is getting stronger (technology, advanced weapons ...and now nuclear power)
2.the Shia in Iraq gained control.
3.HA is being well trained and posses a advanced weapons and has the power to de-stabilize the region.

by allowing israel to take its time to hit HA (which to be honest with you it seems that only the lebanese Gov is going to pay for it not HA)...so by allowing Israel to hit HA this will server the three parites (US, EU , KSA)....
3 in 1....only if it works.

Yohay Elam said...

This war is already becoming very depressing. It seems like nobody remembers how it started. Now, on the tenth day, it seems like both side are just killing each other. Too many civilians are dead on both sides.

So, how do we stop it?

GSH - Observer said...

yohay elam;

I haven't had the chance to visit or study Israel.
in your opinion what is the percentage of extremists and that of the "sane" moderate Israelies in your country

Amon Ra said...

gsh-observer;

Your arguments are convincing enough... Lebanon has become a theatre of the absurd for all others' interests apart from those of Lebanese people...

The problem is that everybody has its own burdens. Israelis, Lebanese, and above all (in my opinion) people from western countries who express their grief every time but during the last 50 years continue supporting the same kind of governments...

P.S: What about Jordan???

yoni said...

I feel sorry for you but I also feel sorry and mourn for all the people who are stuck in shelters in the north

GSH - Observer said...

amon ra;

Jordan is "under control".
the king is a good and loyal friend to the US, he's keeping extremests under control.

as for Jordan interest in this war, i think it has none.

amon, as you have noticed Lebanon has always been the ground of every Dick and Harry to square their scores.

I think Leb. was starting to get on its feet, as you know they stood up in Syria's face, and that cost them quite a lot (assasinations), and i think the forces of "14 March" were starting to pulling the carpet from under HA, but as you know HA is 25% of teh Leb. population and it takes some time to get rid of it or even "absorb" it, if they have done that quickly (brute force or direct political clash) they would've ended up with a civil war and to be honest with you i don't think the Leb. army can face HA (you saw what kind ot weapons they have, thanks to Syria and Iran) it would be a messy civil war and i don't think it's in Israel's interest to have an unstable country to its north.

if i were an Israeli i will call my Gov. to Help teh Leb. Gov. to get strong...i'll sign peace with them and give them weapons and training to their army...
i think this will creat a strong stable country to your north, protect Leb. from Syria's and Iran's influence. this way Israel will be safe from all sides (i think israel did the right think oulling out of Gaza, which makes you more stable inside your border)

Helpless in Canada said...

Why is it so important right now how it started, if two adults - adults, not teen-agers, not children, got into a fight and one of them is currently injured - dying even, do you stop to ask who started it, or do you take they dying one to the hospital, or call an ambulance at least?

Children are dying!!

Discuss!

Amon Ra said...

gsh;

This is a quite progressive way of thinking regarding what Israel could do...

25% is not a small percentage and it may increase if this ... (i really don't know how to call such an irrational situation) continues.

In such a case, Israel will have achieved a long-term destabilization in the area and i dont want to think what worse can happen in the future

francois said...

gili about propaganda
i m wondering how cant u recognise that your army killed more then 350 people and that your answer was disproportionated

if there is a propaganda, there is as israely propaganda in the western countries.

you loose this propaganda for sure when the images of the devastated south lebanon will be on the air, when the foreigners being evacuated will be making their testimony about israel war crimes.

and it is possible to act israel on this issue for the foreigners that are evacuating

http://www.reseau-damocles.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=218

GSH - Observer said...

amon ra;

I spent some time in Leb. and i studied the situation in south Leb. very closely and i would like to share this with all the readers:

from the day the Leb.Republic was established south Leb. has been deprived from the basic civil requirements, hardly any schools, hardly any hospitals, no infra structure...etc.

when the PLO take refuge in south Leb. they - the PLO members - also abused the southerns, tehy practicaly took the outh for them selves and treated the south Lebanese as second grade citizens.

not to long after that a movement call "AMAL" was established, it was a shiit movement headed by imam Moussay el-Sadr. they protected their poeple in the south and stood by them and fought for their rights, soon after AMAL grew and became corrupt, and the southerns went back to square one...in 1982 HA came to the scene ans a Shiit movement.
They took the Shhit of the south and Bekaa valey under their wing, they clashed with AMAL and dominated the south.
HA gave the southern what no one ever gave them since Leb. was established.
because of HA the southern had a good infrastrucure, HA opened free schools, free Social services, free hospitals and orphenage.

what should we expect from poor deprived people who were neglected by their country and rescued by HA???
i tell you what: SUPPORT TO HA.

do you see how it is?
do you see why it is hard to extract HA from Lebanon.
do you see why so much people support HA inspite their losses???

the southerns had no other shelter or refuge or friend to care for them otehr then HA.
Lebanon itself didn't care for them.

tel avivi said...

Free Lebanon from the snake:
http://www.all4lebanon.org

box said...

francois said: if there is a propaganda, there is as israely propaganda in the western countries."

you are SO right francois...
and if, all of the sudden, wonderful doha's posts are "propaganda," then what are a million pro-israeli action posters doing here?

xor84 said...

the site picked by tel avivi makes it clear that we all have the same goal in mind- stop Hizbullah and end this war.

now the discussion should not be on 'who should be blamed' but rather on 'what can Israel, Lebanon, the UN and everyone else can do inorder to acheive this goal'.

from hearing the declerations by the israeli leaders, which are not planning to suddenly stop fighting, i think the fastest way to end this war will be if the lebanese say out loud- No more Hizbullah, and ask the UN's help in disarming it.
is this scenario realistic?

box- Doha blog was mentioned in the israeli media many times. israeli posters here just want to help the israeli-lebanese dialog, so we could understand each other better (and i must say i have learned a lot since i started reading and commenting in this blog)

BTW- to Doha, as eli said earlier the israeli battle ship did not sink. after getting hit by the iranian missile it sailed back to israel.

zentek said...

hello friends, just testing if this post works.
If so, then greetings to all.
If not, lost in cyberspace.
Peace to you either way!
John

GSH - Observer said...

xor84;

I don't think the Lebanese would or should protest agains HA while war is still going. usually hardship brings people together.

once the war is over the Lebanese are going to politicaly show their disapproval and dismay to HA.
only when the war is over...

Dan Irving said...

"HA gave the southern what no one ever gave them since Leb. was established.
because of HA the southern had a good infrastrucure, HA opened free schools, free Social services, free hospitals and orphenage."

They did that so that they could use the civ population in the event of an Israeli invasion.

From StrategyPage:
"While Hizbollah has made no secret of its goal of destroying Israel (as has Iran), Hizbollah has cleverly set up its defenses in southern Lebanon so as to maximize civilian casualties if Israel ever attacked. For example, when thousands of rockets were brought in from Iran (via Syria) over the last six years, they were stored in special rooms or basements in schools, Mosques and homes. Civilians were given no choice in this matter, and many Shia in the south were proud to help house weapons to be used against Israel. Fewer of these civilians were willing to get killed when Israeli bombs or artillery shells came to destroy these rockets. Israel knew what Hizbollah was doing, and that's why Israel did not go after the rockets until now. To bomb the rocket supplies would have killed civilians, and without a Hizbollah attack on Israel, the PR and diplomatic backlash would have made such attacks too costly. "

This is exactly the same thing Hamas did - and it's probably a whole heck of a lot cheaper than actually having to go and buy body armor. The pay off is a) storage places for weapons. B) defensible areas when fighting a C) Civ casualty fallout to help fight the media war.

The Leb people need to stand up to this group that has the gun to their head. The Leb army needs to communicate with the IDF. Cordon off the North and be the anvil to the IDFs hammer. While it won't get rid of Hizb (you can't eliminate an idea) it will significantly limit their power.

xor84 said...

GSH - Observer,
it's only a matter of who you consider to be your enemy- Israel or Hizbullah.

if protesting against Hizbullah would end this war, why not take this step?

why only when the war is over, if this is the way to end the war?

xor84 said...

Dan Irving-
your observation on the charecharistics of Hizbullah and the way it uses the civilian poplulation in Lebanon as a human shield is very important for understanig the situation.

when the IDF called civilians to evacuate areas targeted for bombing, it were Hizbullah's people who told the civilians to stay where they are (and we know what happend then).

GSH - Observer said...

dan irving;

I am stating the facts that led 25% or so of the Lebanese(mainly southerns) to support HA.

I didn't and wouldn't go to why HA did that or how.

correct, you can not eliminate and idea. keep in mind the not all the supporters of HA support its ideology, NO...they support HA simply because HA supported the....do you see the difference???

if the LEb. Gov. took care of its southern population and protected them from war HA would have no chance in hell to penetrate the south.

the Southerns are not endoctrinated....
they simply clinched to the only rope for survival that they were EVER offered.

I hope you understood this point because i think it holds the solution for the removal of extremism from any society.

as for the Leb Army to comunicate with the IDF, this can't happen.
A political accord and comunication should take place before security forces are able to comunicate right???
don't you think that's how things go betweeen countries???

the big question is:
is their a will for peace from both side ????

3li- said...

"the site picked by tel avivi makes it clear that we all have the same goal in mind- stop Hizbullah and end this war.

now the discussion should not be on 'who should be blamed' but rather on 'what can Israel, Lebanon, the UN and everyone else can do inorder to acheive this goal'."

This is what Israel wants; how it wants to frame the issue and current struggle; there are many people in Lebanon, and definitely in the Arab world, who see the situation very differently.

The Hizb, its creation, ascendancy to power, and the current struggle it finds itself in is, legitimate Lebanese grievances against Israel notwithstanding) is part and parcel of the wider Israeli-Palestinian issue. What is happening in Gaza today, and what may happen tomorrow in the West Bank and elsewhere has a direct effect on what happens in Lebanon, what with ½ million Palestinian refugees stewing in refugee camps who are a time bomb waiting to explode.

I have said from the beginning, and will say it again, especially to those Israelis who are sounding more and more like a broken record (quantity of posts is not quality by the way): unless Israel, the powerful side to this conflict that owns most of the options, owns up to its responsibility and deals fairly and equitably with the Palestinian issue no amount of fire-power, oppression, bunker-busters, massive carpet-bombing, threats, etc…will deter a resistance, whether, the Hizb or possibly a more extreme mutation of it, from continuing the struggle. You only delay the inevitable by this intransigence, and cause more suffering and death on all involved.

To my Lebanese compatriots who do not share this view and would rather completely disengage from the wider elements of this struggle and be left alone to build a paradise that will once again show Lebanese ingenuity, enterprise and progressive thought, you ARE part and parcel of this conflict. Some of you tried to take this issue on head-first, causing the first civil war in Lebanon and consequently destroyed the country. The Palestinians live amongst you, and next door to you, and as long as their life is hell, we will all be touched by it. This is a time to unite, point the finger at the real culprit in this case, in history and now which is Israel (look at what is happening in Gaza), and whether you intend it or not, stop giving the Israelis excuses to continue raping your country.

GSH - Observer said...

xor84;

let me explain my answer in a way less complicated:

suppose your brother commited a crime, naturaly you'll be mad at him and willing to punish him because he caused your family a great pain and discomfort.

but what if those who were attacked by your brother are beating him till death, are you going to punish him because he commited the crime? or your first reaction and duty will be to get him away from those who are beating him, and when things calm down you'll go back and tell him how you feel about him and about his acts ???

as bad as his act was, you are not going to punish him while he is getting beaten by others...you can't....you didn't forgive him his crime, but simply you need things to calm down first, and then you'll deal with him.

box said...

the site picked by tel avivi makes it clear that we all have the same goal in mind- stop Hizbullah and end this war.

sorry, i won't be letting "tel avivi" tell me what the goal is... especially when they advocate "freeing" lebanon from its only source of defense against israeli aggression.

the goal is, to me - stop israeli aggression. now. there is only one way for peace, and that is for israel to stop its aggression.

GSH - Observer said...

Israel delivered its message loud and clear.

prolonging the aggression will gain israel nothing.

Lebanon got the message, and i believe it will act accordingly (if israel doesn't weaken the gov. to a point of collapse)

if the Leb. Gov. collapsed syria will be back in Leb. and i don't think this will server Israel or makeit's border any safer.

Boris the Bullet Dodger said...

gsh,

Do you have evidence that if Israel gambles and leaves Lebanon now (it is a gamble because Israel has not freed the soldiers, it did not destroy all the missiles, it did not even kill Nassralah and it will appear to look weak if it leaves) the Lebanese people will dissarm the Hizballah? Even with the PM saying that he supported Hizballah?

Lirun said...

this is reallygoing around in circles.. this is beginning to resemble the cycle of violence itself and i'm disappointed..

lirun
tel aviv
www.emspeace.blogspot.com
wanting peace in the east med sea

GSH - Observer said...

boris;

i'm not sure the Leb. PM support HA, i believe he is a member of the "14 March" group.
the Leb. President supported HA and as you know he represents no one, he's a syrain puppet.

stopping the war may be a gamble. when you gamble you have a chance to win 50/50.
50% you'll win your bet and the Leb. Gov will take action (now it has a more aggeressive reason to do so)
50% you'll lose and the Leb. Gov. will fail to do so.

Keeping the aggression WILL 100% cause the Gov. to collapse.
i hope i'm mistaken, but if this Gov. goes down their will be chaos in Leb. maybe a civil war (don't forget syria is still in the area and it has it's players in Leb.)

are you willing to take this chance?
keep inmind borris that Israel is not the only one who wnats to get rid of HA, US, EU and other arab countries are after the same goal, it is unlikely that stopping the aggression will be a gamble.

Needinformation said...

Does anyone know if the Lebanese reserves are being called already?
Thanks for your fast responce.

zentek said...

WOW! My test post appeared. I have nothing intelligent to say. I am an old
man living in Arizona USA and my world is heaven compared to your world. I have
food and water and electricity to power my computer. My life is bliss because I
can read your words and they are real beyond news media control.

Since I do not live in your world I do not know who to believe. So, I believe all of
you while reading your words. So much passion based on anger and fear and hope.

I thank all of you who post messages. I have no interest in politics or religion. You
are so far away you do not have any effect on my life. But your words do appear
in my dreams and in that world I often laugh and weep. I am the richest man in
the world and my door is always open to you.

In my early life I knew killing, hate and terror. Now it's your turn and I wish it was not
so. It only produces more horror, suffering and waste. Been there, done that, got a
bloody shirt with bullet holes. Once I was a hero. Now you are my heroes. If you
can't find peace you will continue to suffer. And your pain will affect my dreams.

I will awaken tomorrow and wipe the crust of tears from my eyes and be hungry for
peace. Please ignore chaos for a moment and send food recipes to zentek@cableone.net.
Love and Respect, John Shaw

Boris the Bullet Dodger said...

gsh,

I understand what you are saying. I will need time to think this over, but your words have struck me.

I really do appriciate your input, it helps me tramendously to hear your view point. Every rational person who posts in this blog enlightens me.

Thanks you,
Boris

Gidi said...

To Francois:

You will kindly take not that I have never denied either the killing of civilians nor the exact toll. As a matter of fact -- none of the posting Israelis ever denied it. Any other false claims you'd like to hold on to?

To Box and his likes:

I find your idealism almost as wonderous as your complete and utter denial of the situation the Middle East is in. There is hatred and distrust on boths sides, extremests and populists who wait in the wings and a habit non-compliance of signed agreements. The illusion of possibility is not new; it's quite possible we've been living in it ever since '94.

xor84 said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3-
if you insert the israeli-palestinian issue here you are condemnig the war to continue. this issue is bigger and longer than can be addressed here.
are the lebanese willing to continue suffering just in order to show solidarity with the palestinians?


GSH - Observer-
i see what you are saying and understand the difficulty to stand-up against your fellow lebanese in this time of war.
but you forgot to add one thing to your story- your brother is holding you and the rest of your family and friends as hostages in his fight, and he is getting you killed for his causes. if you won't stop him, you will be the one who will end up getting hurt, not just him.
doesn't that change the picture?

we do not expect you to kill Hizbullah's men, only to disarm them, or at least stand up to him and show openly that you oppose his actions and demand him to stop.

i don't think that "50% you'll win your bet and the Leb. Gov will take action".
even lebanese say they feel they have no power or influence over Hizbullah, and if the rest of the world wanted to help where was it for the past 10 days?
and even if the Leb. Gov. will eventually have influence over Hizbullah, it will take years for that to happen in which Hizbullah will continue firing at israeli cities and go stronger from what it will consider as an israeli defeat. it's unrealistic to expect Israel to stop it's actions at this point.

box- Hizbullah caused the Israeli aggresion, which is aimed at it alone (while others are getting hurt in the process). how can you consider the Hizbullah, who started all of this, as you defender?

"there is only one way for peace, and that is for israel to stop its aggression."

do you really expect Israel to stop it's actions while Hizbullah is still shooting rockets at it's cities???

GSH - Observer said...

xor84;

i didn't forget to add the pain my brother is causingme with his acts
and i didn't say that his act will go unpunished by mysekf and my family (please read my entry carefully).

i don;t think it will take years to disarm HA, no, not after what have happened, but it won't be overnight, let's be realistic.
if Israel stop its war today don't expect HA to be desaremed tomorrow, No....but it will be and soon.
the current war will act as an accelerator for the disarmement of HA, no doubt about that.

the only thing that worrie me is whether Iran or Syria will stand aside while this is happeneing....here's the problem.

Lebanon will have the support of the US and EU and the Arab countries and their help (if needed) to fulfil 1559, and it will.

"and if the rest of the world wanted to help where was it for the past 10 days?"

your question has the answer in it.
(i don't mean to be unimmotional against the leb. readers) but why do you think the US and EU didnt ask for cease fire ???
because they know (so does the Leb Gov) that it is about time to put an end to HA (at least its military wing), lebanon can't do it...well it happens that HA kidnaped the 2 soldiers...what can be a better reason then that to go ahead and finish the job ???

By letting Israel weakening HA, the world has assisted The Leb Gov to move in and fulfil the 1559.

unfortunatly civilian were cought in the middle - as usual.

nip said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3,

Your view of the palastenian-Israeli conflict history is summarized in a sentence you wrote to me. It was something like "60 years ago foreigners came here (Now Israel) and drove the locals out of their homes".
I would suggest you take a good history book (not something written by Hammas or HA) and review the facts as they were.

I'll provide you a short summary.
In 1947 the U.N decided to establish two states for two nations (Jews and the arab inhabitants - They weren't called pallestinians at that time). The Arab leaders of the neighbouring countries declined this idea and on May 1948 declared war on the newly established state of Israel. Before the war started, the Arab leaders called upon the arab inhabitants of Jaffa, Haifa and many other places and told them to leave their homes as to allow the easy bombardment of the jewish community. The arab leaders promised that after few days they could return to their homes and even take for themselves the homes of the jews that should be dead by now. The local arab inhabitants did just that (even though on many occasions the jewish inhabitants asked them to stay), they got out of their homes, locked the doors, kept the keys and went away, thinking they will come back in a few days (you can still see palestinians holding those keys in demonstrations carried in palestinians refugee camps). This was the start of the whole palestinians refugee story.
The problem was that Israel didn't lose. Israel won the war, and many arab people became refugees.

Al-Ghadabulsaati3, your view of this problem as an Israeli issue is somewhat an act of hypocrisy. This is because a summary of history as it appears above from the perspective of a palestinian refugee would be "I left my home because I wanted my Jewish neighbours dead, and more land for me. Unfortunatly my jewish neighbours survived so now I want my land back". After the 1948 war and for the past 60 years the landscape of Israel changed and this can't be undone.

If you want a fair and true resolution for this conflict, it should be something that should involve Israel and all the arab nations as they are part of the problem as well.

If you beleieve that HA is intereted in any of the above than you trully do not grasp this conflict.

Amon Ra said...

"The first signs of trouble are perceived, it is easy to find a solution; but if one lets trouble develop, the medicine will be too late, because the malady will have become incurable. And what physicians say about consumpive diseases is also true of this matter, namely, that at the beginnning of the illness, it is easy to treat but difficult to diagnose but, if it has not been diagnosed and treated at an early stage, as time passes it becomes easy to diagnose but difficult to treat... if one recognises political problems early ... they may be resolved quickly, but if they are not recognised, and left to develop so that everyone recognises them, there is no longer any remedy."

"Macchiavelli: The Prince"

If after 58 years of controversy the best solution is to invade in Lebanon then probably it is too late...

It makes me uncomfortable that all the latest news do not receive considerale attention from European authorities, which probably confirms GSH above comments...

3li- said...

XOR84,

Is Israel willing to release Lebanese prisoners, stop incursions that kill Lebanese,leave Shebaa farms, give Lebanon a map of the 400,000 landmines it planted during 22 years of occupation, stop violating air and sea space and take back the 1/2 million Palestinians who live in refugee camps who would love nothing but to go back to their homes?

I promise you, Hizbollah will lay down its arms tomorrow if that happens.

Short of that, nothing else will change, except the further destruction you will continue to unleash against the Lebanese, their land and property, and the skyrocketing popularity that will make Hezbollah a greater force in Lebanon and the Mideast.

In other words, if you want Hizbollah unarmed, address the political grievances. Addressing real issues with overwhelming power has never been successful. It just breeds more resentment and anger and will come back to bite you. You do not have to look at other nation's historical experiences to understand that, just look at your own record with the Palestinians..

But then again, I am just wasting my time again probably....

Anonymous said...

hello,
first of all i would like to say that i pray for all of you people involved in this conflict.
may god help you all to do the right thing.
i dont care which side started all this hatered.
i just think that killing is the proper solution to solve the problem you got.
i live in a small town in germany as an child educator.
a lot of young german/lebanese boys and girls are visiting our house.
at daily basis i can see how these childeren suffer from this conflict even if it is miles away.
how can we develope a living which grants everyone to prosper and live beside each other.
i try to teach these children to respect other humans, but i question my request.
are we humans unable to live in peace. how long will we incapable to do the right things.
killing cant be the right decision, it will only prolong the suffering.

may be god have mercy with us all.

luke

3li- said...

NIP,

Thanks for the history lesson, one cooked in fantastic Zionist narrative..

I will only refer you to one of your own, a Zionist, right-wing historian, Benny Morris, whose latest book about the subject, proves the fiction of all you just wrote. Apparently, you have not read anything new for a while and live in a manufactured heroic past.

Why don’t you begin a little education here (http://www.merip.org/mer/mer230/230_beinin.html), and open your eyes and heart and stop spewing nonsense.

And if you have so much reverence for UN resolutions, why don’t you then respect the over 50 (http://www.middleeastnews.com/unresolutionslist.html)(no one can count these anymore) resolutions condemning Israel for various human rights and international law violations?

Don’t you see the hypocrisy of your government telling the world that part of its assault on Lebanon is to implement (ONE) resolution 1559?

Haustat1 said...

Israel continued its relentless atrocity campaign against Lebanon and Palestine today. The Zionist state murdered more than 300 Arab civilians and demolished much of the infrastructure in various towns and cities. Only one thing seems louder than the sound of US-made jets and tanks that are unleashing genocide on Arabs: the deafening silence that has blanketed Arab capitals.

The US has voiced full support for Israel’s aggression and has given Israel the green light to continue its massacres in Lebanon and Palestine. This support was confirmed when America blocked recent efforts at the Security Council to push for a cease fire and bring an end to Israeli war crimes. In addition, the New York Times and others have recently reported that the US has given Israel the green light to continue its mass slaughter of Lebanese and Palestinians. And the Zionist US Congress has voted overwhelming to endorse Israel’s aggression against the Arab World.

Rather than voice great outrage against America for endorsing Israel’s genocidal assault in the Middle East, the reaction across Arab capitals has been painfully muted. The meaning and implications of such silence deserves further discussion.

Lebanon:

Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora has appropriately condemned Israel’s barbaric atrocity campaign against his country and people. However, he has said virtually nothing about America’s role in helping to prolong Lebanon’s suffering. Although his government has no official diplomatic relations with Israel, it has maintained a cozy relationship with the current war criminal administration in Washington. It seems irrational and inconceivable for Lebanon, a country whose people are being exterminated left and right and whose infrastructure is being destroyed, to have open diplomatic relations with another government that is openly advocating its destruction and supporting its enemy. By maintaining communication with America, the pro-US government of Siniora appears to be in bed with the enemy.

The current silence vis-à-vis America of Fouad Siniora and others in Beirut - including the pro-US, anti-Syrian voices at the Daily Star of Lebanon – exposes an egregious level of hypocrisy. Over one year ago, this anti-Syrian contingent sang America’s tune loudly by heaping scorn and unprecedented condemnation against Syria before the entire world. Their vociferous display of mean-spiritedness and hostility against the Syrian people was fully coordinated with a demagogic, barbaric and tyrannical US administration that has been destroying Iraq and spilling the blood of tens of thousands of its people. The behavior of the anti-Syrian camp, in retrospect, is disgusting for its streak of blatant opportunism. One needs to ask the anti-Syrian camp several questions. As you helplessly sit back and watch the despicable horror and terror that the criminal state of Israel and its US ally unleash on you, what has Syria ever done by comparison to Lebanon? Why aren’t you displaying even a fraction of the intense anger and rage against America that you’ve proven so capable of displaying toward Syria?

The pro-US, anti-Syrian camp, per America’s calling, apparently decided to convict Syria of a killing for which Syrian involvement has never - even to this day - been proven. The pro-US, anti-Syrian camp in Lebanon decided to seize the ship of opportunism that America fielded its way and, in the process, chose to demolish the consensus of the Al Ta’if Accord intended to end the decades-old Lebanese Civil War. The daily flag-waving protesters who dumped a barrage of anti-Syrian taunts while sailing Washington’s ship of opportunism were more eager to challenge pro-Syrian groups with counter-demonstrations than consider the implications of their actions on Lebanon’s future. They chose to entirely play the amnesia game and forget that Syria was invited into Lebanon by a Christian-dominated Lebanese government and ultimately remained there on the basis of Lebanese consensus for the sake of peace.

Even while Israel was just beginning its atrocity campaign in Gaza several weeks ago, Washington’s anti-Syrian allies in Beirut continued to show that Israel is not alone in its desire to oppress and finish off its Palestinian population. As Israel’s murderous arm descended on Gaza, the Lebanese government continued debating ways to intensify the appalling oppression, misery and marginalization of its own Palestinian community. Such debates have only served to heighten the vulnerability of Lebanon’s Palestinians to the savage, barbaric anti-Muslim forces that exacted unforgivable atrocities on Palestinians in the past. The anti-Syrian camp has even refused to allow a true memorial to be erected in Lebanon for the victims of Sabra and Shatila. As such, they have demonstrated a complete inability and/or unwillingness to look within themselves regarding past and present mistakes. By failing to look within - and by choosing to perpetually scapegoat others for Lebanon’s problems – it is difficult to envision how Lebanon can ever truly be whole. The anti-Syrian camp continues to viciously demonize Palestinians, Syrians, Iran, etc. -- anyone except the United States. Sadly, while the anti-Syrian contingent remains mum, the war criminal US administration and the Zionist US media continue to cheer, gloat and celebrate as Israel relentlessly drops bombs all across Lebanon and mercilessly massacres her people.

Nobody should ask the Lebanese people to suffer for others. That is both wrong and it is unfair. But it is also wrong and unfair for Lebanese to jump on a ship of opportunism built on lies and false accusations and belonging to an enemy that is bent on destroying and slaughtering the Arab people. And it is shameful and painful to watch Lebanon debate ways to make the lives of Palestinians in Lebanon even more unbearable and miserable than ever before while Israel wreaks genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.

Lebanon should not have diplomatic relations with any country that is destroying Lebanon’s Arab neighbors and simultaneously helping Israel annihilate Lebanon. Period.

Elsewhere in the Middle East:

The silence of Arab leaders in capitals such as Riyadh, Amman, Cairo, and the US-occupied Green Zone in Baghdad should come as no surprise to anyone. These capitals appear to represent a fifth column for America’s Zionist-Crusader efforts to exterminate the Arab and Muslim peoples. The leaders in these capitals have uttered virtually no criticism whatsoever against America’s own barbaric actions and its support for Israel’s atrocities. One can envisage several actions that could have be taken to send a clear, decisive and unequivocal message of outrage to America regarding her abhorrent crimes. Such actions might have included cutting off diplomatic relations with America and halting trade and economic relations, including oil sales. Instead, Arab leaders as usual have chosen the option of silence, offering Israel and America a virtual green light to continue slaughtering Arabs with impunity.

The self-proclaimed leader of the world’s Shi’a Muslims in Najaf is also noticeably quit these days. As Israel annihilates the Shi’a population of southern Lebanon, Iranian-born Ayatollah Ali Sistani is nowhere to be found. Isn’t he supposed to be representing these people and speaking out about their suffering? Why is Sistani remaining silent about the joint US-Israeli annihilation campaign against the Shi’a Muslims in southern Lebanon and about the barbaric US invader-occupiers who are committing mass atrocities in Iraq?

The silence that permeates Arab capitals as Israel continues its aggression in Lebanon is both painful and deafening. Over the long term, such silence will contribute more to the ongoing suffering of Arabs than the gargantuan terror of US-Israeli bombs and missiles. Such silence will also undoubtedly have devastating repercussions for Lebanon’s future.

GSH - Observer said...

xor84;

when i tell you that the current Leb. Gov is the only hope to stop thh miltitary acts of HA, and the influence of Syria and Iran in Lebanon you need to believe me, if not read the entry of HAUSTAT1
published @ 5.53pm

nip said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3,

Israel returned all the lands to Lebanon as noted in UN reolution 425.
The current Israeli incursion on Lebanon is a result of six years of incursions and provocation made by HA against Israel. It is not just because of the two kidnapped soldiers (and the 8 dead soldiers -from the same incident- all seems to neglect), it is because HA was/is attacking Israel ever since it left the Lebanon swamp.
Regarding the 1/2 million refugees I already replied to you in a different post.
What is left are maps for 400,00 landminds( A number you claim, but I don't recall this to be true). What you claim is that if Israel will give you the maps, you can guarantee that HA will disarm tomorrow, leave the south, and will let Lebanon leave peacefully with it's naighbouring country from the south, i.e. Israel. Consider this a deal.

I hope you realize how absurd you sound.
The fact to the matter is that HA (Iran and Syria in the background) and Hammas do not want peace with Israel, and are willing to take the whole region with them in their pointless Jihad. They live and prosper on building hate within the arabs and pallestinians toward Israel, mainly because this serve them as means for hiding the corruption and failure of their leaders to bring prosperity to their people.

This is not the first time such methods are used. Just browse 66 years back to Nazi Germany.

Gidi said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3,

Your Post-Modernistic take on historical facts is both pathetic and apalling. Your slanted and fabricated accounts, and unfounded accusations on established academic findings and research are unexcusable in any forum, let alone this. This is not a "your-word-against-mine" situation where you get to say whatever's on your feverish, indoctrinated mind. I call on you, in the name of academic truth to cite your sources! No links to flight-of-fancy psuedo-factual web sites shall be excepted, nor quotes from Wikipedia. If you have any honesty, and an ounce of weight to your claims you will provide these citations. If not, kindly refrain from insulting our (collective -- Lebanese and Israeli) intelligence.

As for UN resolutions, let us not forget who decided not to except the first of many, almost sixty years ago. Moreover, Israel has met all of UNSCR 1559 requests of her six years ago. Pray remind me how many Lebanon has met? Oh...that's right. None.

3li- said...

Nip & Gidi,

This is a pointless excercise...

You will not be dissuaded from your positions, and as you see your pointless arguments rationalizing this brutality do not go very far with many of the Lebanese..

All is left to you is the battlefield; just do me a favor and stop justifying our own murder to us...Have a little respect...

GSH - Observer said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
nip said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3,

At least in Israel we let publicity craving men like Benny Morris speak.

Anyway, below you'll find a short summary on what's wrong with Benny Morris publications.
http://www.meforum.org/article/711

nice said...

Si escribo en castellano me entienden? (Or must I use english speak? If any people ask me english writing for... well I'll do. grrr. Spanish is the 2ª world language, ok?) Me cuesta escribir en inglés y prefiero el castellano. Pienso que en todo el mundo los gobiernos han dejado de representar a sus representados, o sea el pueblo, y por eso mientras nosotros, el pueblo , tratamos de vivir en paz, el afán de poder y dinero de los gobiernos provoca la guerra.

xor84 said...

gsh-
i'm not talking about punishment, i'm talking about stopping the fight which is currently taking place. punishing 'your brother' later will not stop the fight taking place right now, and will not stop the killing of your people.
the lebanese are currently passive in this battle between HA and Israel, and being passive will not end the fight.
i don't know if there's something meaningful that the lebanese can do to stop HA. all i'm saying that IF the lebanese could unite against HA demanding it to stop its actions, this would stop the war and the killing. i know it's a lot to expect, but this is what i believe should be done by the lebanese.

even if it takes only months to disarm HA, Israel can't sit quietly for months while HA is targeting isreali cities and killing israeli civilians (and trying to cross the border almost every night to kill civilians living near the border).
also, we can't live in bomb shelters for months.
i believe you when you say that only the Leb. Gov. can stop HA, but this does not change the fact that Israel can't stop fighting while it is still under attack.

------------

Al-Ghadabulsaati3-
what you ask of Israel is not to address the political issues. you are asking it to give in to each an every demand raised by HA, telling it that by the use of terror it can get everything from Israel. what will stop them from asking for more and more? -nothing.

you have put all the demands together but they should be addressed seperatly. I will give you MY OWN opinion on these issues:
release Lebanese prisoners - those who you refer to as prisoners we call terrorists and murderers who killed israeli citizens in the past, and if released will probably try to kill israelis again (as we learened every time we released palestinian terrorists). the release of prisoners that did not try to kill israelis, if such exist, could be discussed by the sides.
stop incursions that kill Lebanese - Israel has no intention of being inside Lebanon. the only incurtions made are against HA. no HA - no incursions.
leave Shebaa farms - this could be adresses as a part of a long-term peace agreement with the Leb. Gov., not with HA.
give Lebanon a map of the 400,000 landmines it planted during 22 years of occupation - i was unaware of that. if there are such mines as you say (which i do not beleive to be true), and if a map does exist, than i regard this issue the same way as the one before.
stop violating air and sea space - likewise.
take back the 1/2 million Palestinians who live in refugee camps who would love nothing but to go back to their homes - this is out of the question since this would mean the end of Israel (and BTW, you must mean "thier lands" and not "their homes" which do not exists for decades)

and i don't beleive you have answered my question - are the lebanese willing to continue suffering just in order to show solidarity with the palestinians?

nip said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3,

Which positions do you refer to? Our saying that this region has a problem that all parties should work on, and that Hammas and HA (backed by Iran and Syria) only tries to make sure we will never reach a resolution?

At least we try to offer something, the only thing you are doing is stating that Israel is to blame (without real backing to your claims, and with all your slogans proven wrong). When hard pressed to the corner all you can say is we raise "pointless arguments", as an excuse to not dealing with hard facts.

And the battelfield rhetoric? Give me a break. It's like we wanted this to start. Wake up and smell the homus. For six years your country let the HA build an enormous arsenal of rockets that where used many times by Nasralla to threaten Israel. Suddenly when Israel was attacked (and not for the first time) without any provocation on its side, and Israel decided to remove this threat once and for all, you accuse Israel as war hungry?

govi said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
GrayTroup said...

For those of you with aid in mind, please visit
this Lebanese Relief collection;

http://www.theworldisdoingnothing.com/

Gidi said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3,

Far be it from me to disrespect any of you in such a way. I understand these times are greatly stressful, and so I shall overlook the fact you obviously never read my post, since no-where did I justify the killing of civilians.

As for the rest of your delusional rant, I have yet to see one citation offered so one could verify your allegations. Perhaps this is due to the fact you have not a honest bone in your body, or else because all your sources are highly suspect and far from credible. (Indeed, I'd hate to think such sources don't even exist.)

Therefore, as far as I am concerned (and I presume to speak for no-one besides myself), you will recieve my full respect and sympathy until that very point where you cite falsehoods as "truths" in the name of History, and resort to sounding like an indoctrinated broken record. It is that point you have come to, and therefore any respect I show you is hereby withdrawn.

nice said...

I thoug that governments don't represent any more theirs reprensented, that is: people. And so and while we, the people, wished to live peacefully, the governments, eager of power and money, cause wars

nip said...

Govi,

Some answers to your questions.
1. I don't think that Iran and Syria believed that the current crisis is going to happen. They imagined that a much smaller scale incident will occur. Small but enough to divert the world attention from Iran. Currently Iran and Syria are actually quite pleased with the current crisis. They claim that they are not part of the game (even though Iran supplied and is continually supplying arms to HA), and thus consider themselves as bystanders. They also believe that once they'll intervene and control HA, they will be considered as savers of the region and thus could demand something in return from the UN. How convinient.

2. I'm not familiar with terrorists organizations in India so I can't comment on your suggestions, but I don't see any chance of an Arab country accepting Israel military aid.

govi said...

well... i find that most of the "we cant help it" people have bought into general propaganda... anyways thats jus imho...

well.. there are somethings that arent very clear to me at this moment...

1. When the hizbollah kidnapped the israeli soldiers.. did it expect the crisis to turn this big? if it didnt, as most of the people seemed to have opined, then how can this be a ploy of iran to divert attention from their nuclear programme? (im no iranian or supporter... jus curious)

2. Secondly, israelis always had the option of helping the lebanese army drive out the militants from their(lebanese) land, rather than doing it themselves... there is a similar example where the ULFA(United Liberation Front of Asom) and the NDFB (National Democratic Front of Bodoland) and the KLO (Kamtapur Liberation Organisation), which are outlawed and banned terrorist organizations in India, maintain a steady violence both on civilian, para-military and military establishments and personnel, were tried to be eliminated from the southern Bhutan area... the indian army had made some successful pursuit and exterminate operations inside the bhutanese border most of which were later discontinued after the bhutan government raised some sentivity issues. After this, the operations shifted to providing helicopters and training for the personnel of the Royal Bhutan army. Most of the stories of the ULFA or other terrorist organizations are not well known or documented as that of the islamic(for want of a better word) terrorist groups... even in india! But, if you sift through the pages and the websites you can gather that these guys are no lesser in any grade, when compared with other organized militant groups around the world. Though this counter-insurgency operations were far from outright victories, many terrorist camps across the border have been dismantled, and mind you the terrain is always against the army operating in the area, and you are talkin about the himalayas!

well, i am an indian, a passive observer, as passive as anyone can be, still sitting at his office @ 4:30 AM, reading all scraps of information on the current crisis in the middle east and wondering whether the "Armageddon" some of the right wing conservatives are waiting for is looming imminently, what with some of the people in the US terming the current crisis as the world war III.... Anyways with the current mumbai blasts, that killed my country men, and a victim of terror myself, i can remember only a saying that my teacher at my primary school used to teach us... "Violence is the weapon of the incompetent" and hence i detest it in all forms...

as a bonus... http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Colbert-FOX-WWII.mov

GSH - Observer said...

xor84;

time my not be of a luxury, yes...that may be true...but we're not passive.
if you have time please read this

http://beirut2bayside.blogspot.com/
see entry "What Kind of Ceasefire?"

xor84, if the Lebanese don't react firmly against HA they don't deserve their country....let me put it like that.....

while we're at it, fighting and targeting HA is one thing but can you tell me how in god's name destrying a stand alone water treatment facility will help stopping HA ???
or targeting the Red Cross ambulances ???

theses action seems to be targeting all the Lebanese.

What are your thoughts on that

govi said...

well.. video might be a parody... but... well... u can see those above 50s politicians sitting in those chairs and calling the numbers.... as i hav heard one say "the death of a man is a tragedy, death of millions is just statistics"... now this attitude that we have is pretty serious... the situation isnt greatly different in most counrties around the world, extremists coming into power with open or hidden agendas... and most of the people like me are just sitting and watching them... exasperated...

govi said...

nip,

well, as far as the answer to 1 is concerned i think it is a mere speculation, though there is no doubt that the shiite hezbollah is shadow fighter of the shiite iran, that tries to convert the region into a shiite controlled islamic republics. Well, someone (http://beirut2bayside.blogspot.com/) had quoted this article, by Martin Kramer, who i believe is at the Tel Aviv university(im not sure). I think there might be more truth in his article as he believes that the hizbollah and the sectionist forces in the middle east will be more than surprised at israel's reaction to the kidnapping incident. To what end the drama was hosted we may not know, but voices of support to hizbollah has appeared in all the arab countries, though the governments are holding onto a different opinion...

well, as far as the second one, it may be nice if a lebanese answered upon it, but i still feel that violence should always be the last option. You might think that it is okay for me to talk of non-violence and stuff, sitting in nice office suites in one of the corporate houses, but i hav seen violence and deaths, manmade like the current serials bomb blasts during a short stint at mumbai with my uncles and the godhra sectarian riots that left lots of muslims and hindus dead... and natural ones like the tsunami that claimed more than 150000 in asia...

GSH - Observer said...

nip,govi;

if you read my post earlier today, i stated that it would be impossible for Lebanon to accept military aid from israel because countries need to have some kind of political connection before starting to accept aid from each other nevertheless teh aid of an army that was occupying their land 6 years ago....can you imagin how it will look to the citizens....

i'm affraid only Lebanon has and need to deal with this situation.

govi said...

im afraid that truth is turning out to be pretty harsh... but, wouldnt the lebenon hav accepted the israeli aid had it been through a series of dialoges with the lebanese govt., given that most of the polititians were pro-us? But i cant help thinking that this can also be intepreted as a sign of occupation, as southern lebenon was until 2000 or even that the hizb would not have stayed put while such dialogues were happenning.... but now it seems far from reality, as the lebanese can never accept any aid from the israeli(nor the israeli's would be willing to offer any if u think abt it).. and i still cant come to terms that israel might be able to dismantle the hizb's terror bases in south, and annihilate it, given the protracted violence in most other occupied territories, like iraq for example, and even afghanistan... this doesnt spell hope for the lebanese in any syllable.. :(

The only way a militant organization might be destroyed, is by removing the support it gets, and then systematically neutralize and absorb the fighting corps into mainstream society... there is no military solution for militancy, as it just breeds the hatred. the middle east has always been a bed of thorns, with militancy breeding almost everywhere and then permeating into all moderate societies. With afghan terrorist grounds being destroyed thanks to the coalition forces, the militants are now scattered all across the globe, only waiting to strike! The onyl things these escalations and warfare does it to destroy the moderate voices on both sides of the border, and making peace an ever-unreachable goal...

GSH - Observer said...

govi;
true..unfortunate but true....thisis thenature of the beast.
as for your solution...it is the only realistic solution which might survive teh test of time.

thepoetryman said...

That picture is most sad... What a tragedy...
It is a sad day when our oceans are dying from mans recklessness.

The post was very poetic...

I also loved your ending quote:
"Nobody knows how many rebellions, besides political rebellions, ferment in the masses of life which people earth."

Peace. I will return often.

Mariposa said...

My heart goes out to the Lebanese community. Although thousands of miles away, I can only pray for brighter days.

3li- said...

To all the Israeli posters,

I do not have time to defend every accusation and half-truths you keep throwing around. We have a tragedy on our hands and people’s lives, including mine, have been transformed forever..

We can go back and forth…until the end of time. Since we cannot solve our own problem, heck we can’t even agree on what the problem is, naturally someone else will do it for us, which usually means those who are willing to war rather than talk..

I believe the battlefield will change the dimension of the conflict, your and my argument notwithstanding. Taking the power imbalance between the two sides, I am hoping that we at least do not lose, or more accurately, do not allow you to completely crush us, as I believe you’re in the wrong.

I am sure you’re hoping that you do crush us, as you believe we are victimizing you.

I hope and pray of a better way to solve our problems. Until then, I bid you peace.

stateroom said...

`I am sure you’re hoping that you do crush us, as you believe we are victimizing you.`

You are very wrong. Only the Hizbollah.
After that israelis will gladly help you rebuild Lebanon. The problem is Hizb, not the Lebanese.

box said...

After that israelis will gladly help you rebuild Lebanon.
i'm sure that's such a comfort, jerk. and why lie about whom you aim to kill when it's starkly evident.

btw, which corps (so close to "corpse") will be involved? i'd like to get my stock picks in. also, please inform re: real estate purchase - i'm sure all the good property will be labeled "hizbollah-owned, right to seize"

stateroom said...

`i'm sure that's such a comfort, jerk.`

Ha ha being called a jerk by a moron leftist is an honor. Surely I am on the right track.

btw, which corps (so close to "corpse") will be involved? i'd like to get my stock picks in. also, please inform re: real estate purchase - i'm sure all the good property will be labeled "hizbollah-owned, right to seize"

Easy to answer that. Go look in your underwear there`s much real estate there - front n back.

stateroom said...

N i sure ain`t investing in any of your stock picks.
Have a nice day.

Lirun said...

we have a saying "the death of a person is the death of a world"

this war for me is like the death of a universe.. all blame reasons and excuses aside.. i hate it

wishing for peace for all in the east med sea..

lirun
telaviv

francois said...

bunch of lies

israel agreed to leave the lebanese vital infrastructure not bombed

today they destroyed the GSM antenna (as long the tv antenna) in the heart of the christian aera of kesrouan. terbol, sannine , etc... being bombed

my dad is a surgeon , i m wondering now how can he be called for ER to his hospital to save the lifes of civilians that you also bombed

saying it s a war against the hezbollah is a lie, it s a war against lebanon and all its componments and moreover it doesnt have any sense as you israelien are on contrary increasing the support of the shia community to the hezbollah instead of strenghtening the autority of the lebanese state

xor84 said...

gsh-
you said: while we're at it, fighting and targeting HA is one thing but can you tell me how in god's name destrying a stand alone water treatment facility will help stopping HA ???
or targeting the Red Cross ambulances ???


because i don't believe the IDF target civilians on purpose, i can explain it only in two ways:
1. tragic mistakes, which occour in wars.
2. some things are not as they appear to be. i'll explain with a story i heard on british 'sky news', told by one of their reporters. he was saying that he had been to Lebanon in the previous war and saw buildins of civilians being destroyed close to the place where he was staying at. when later on he got to Israel he asked a man serving in the IDF this very question- why did the IDF target civilian buildings. as an answer that IDF officer showed him satellite images of a residential building he had recognized from his time in Lebanon, from which a barrel of a tank was clearly seen peeping out of the building's garage.
what i'm trying to say that the Intel units of the IDF knows a lot more than me and even you, and if they decide that a building should be bombed there is probably a reason unknown to us.

in regard of the ambulances, we've seen through the years that palestinian terrorists sometimes use ambulances to move around weapons and wanted men, and have even tried smuggling suicide bombers into Israel inside amboulances. there is no reason to think that HA is not using the same method to transoprt rockets to thier lounching areas.


box-
Israel wants peace and bonds of friendship with all of it's neighbours. we do not consider Egypt and Jordan as enemies anymore and there is nothing we want more than having Lebanon as a friend. sadly, HA is making sure that does not happen in the near future.

Gidi said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3,

For once, we agree. I hope too Lebanon is not destroyed. It truley hope that the fighting in Southern Lebanon (directly against Hizbulla) will draw the bombings away from Beirut and its surroundings.
At this point, I feel any more airstrikes in Beirut are unjustified (though I have no way of judging; I will definately not take your word for it). This is the very least of what Israel as a nation among nations should do.

Also, reading your last post, I have a feeling that your previous words were filled with outrage and all those other terrible emotions you'd understandibly be feeling. Therefore, I will refrain from passing judgment on your ideas hence.

Peace onto all us.

Beny Shlevich said...

Correction: The Israeli warship wasn't "sank", it was hit. 4 of its sailors were killed, and it returned to the Ashdod port.

Sister Sledge said...

How many women are on this blog? These discussions are deterriorating quickly into mud-throwing contests based on carefully-selected dogmas, designed to keep everyone apart.
Ladies! The 21st century is ours. We have the gift of communication and empathy. Please ladies start voicing your opinions. Perhaps I'm dreaming, but women, even if they hate each other, have the gift of empathy and communication. If we can't find a finger we can shake, not asking for a whole hand, then we are doomed for many years of violence, courtesy of ALL SIDES INVOLVED.
Please ladies, voice some sounds of reason. I'm tired of hearing these victims of fear-stricken and racist education systems. (of all sides! of all sides!)
Peace-what a summer the "people of power" are serving us.

Ruhullah said...

The rules of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS when it comes to the Israeli-Arab conflict:

Rule # 1: In the Middle East, it is always the Arabs that attack
first, and it's always Israel who defends itself. This is called "Retaliation".

Rule # 2: The Arabs, whether Palestinians or Lebanese, are not allowed to kill Israelis. This is called "Terrorism"

Rule # 3: Israel has the right to kill Arab civilians; this is called “Self-Defense", or these days "Collateral Damage".

Rule # 4: When Israel kills too many civilians. The Western world
calls for restraint. This is called the "Reaction of the International Community".

Rule # 5: Palestinians and Lebanese do not have the right to capture Israeli military, not even a limited number, not even 1 or 2. This is called "Kidnapping".

Rule # 6: Israel has the right to capture as many Palestinians as they want (Palestinians: around 10000 to date, 300 of which are children, Lebanese: 1000s to date, being held without trial). There is no limit; there is no need for proof of guilt or trial. This is called "War on Terrorism".

Rule # 7: When you say "Hezbollah", always be sure to add "supported by Syria and Iran". this is called: "Axis of Evil"

Rule # 8: When you say "Israel", never say "supported by the USA, the UK and other European countries", for people (God forbid) might believe this is not an equal conflict. This is called "Helping our Friends".

Rule # 9: When it comes to Israel, don't mention the words "occupied
territories", "UN resolutions",”Geneva conventions". This could distress the audience and is called "Anti-Semitism".

Rule # 10: Israelis speak better English than Arabs. This is why we
let them speak out as much as possible, so that they can explain rules 1 through 9. This is called "Neutral Journalism".

Rule # 11: If you don't agree with these rules or if you favor the
Arab side over the Israeli side, you must be a very dangerous
anti-Semite. You may even have to make a public apology if you express your honest opinion like Mel Gibson. This is called "Democracy".

Ruhullah said...

Uncensored journalistic-videos

(Very very good) The beginning is slow but the end is like amazing)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9071731896689197790&pr=goog-sl


(A critic with proof on the US media one sided version and lies)

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-7828123714384920696


http://brasscheck.com/videos/middleeast/me5.html



Robert Fisk

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/

Haiku Peace and Freedom said...

WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP THIS WAR ON TERRORISM HAS BEEN . ITS PLAIN TO SEE THAT THE REAL TERRORISTS ARE THE ONES WHO ARE KILLING ALL THE PEOPLE-THE USA AND ISRAEL! THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE KILLING AND FRIGHTENING ALL THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN. THEY ARE DEFINITELY THE REAL TERRORISTS THE REAL WARMONGERS. THE US HAS MORE WAR MACHINES AND WMD'S THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY ONE WILL REALIZE THAT THE US-BUSH LED FORCE IS REALLY NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF OIL GANGSTAS- THIS IS NOTHING DIFFERENT THAN TWO STREET GANGS FIGHTING OVER TURF AND PRODUCT SALES. THE BUSH REGIME COULD EASILY BE COMPARED TO THE NAZI REGIME IN EVERY WAY FROM- THE TOTURE AT THEIR CONCENTRATION CAMPS, TO THE LIES AND PROPAGANDA OF BUSHES CORPORATE LED PROPAGANDA MACHINE THE WHOLE WAR IS BOUGHT AND SOLD TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC AS THEY FOOLISHLY RALLY BEHIND THE PRESIDENT AND HIS FLAG. ITS CLEAR THAT THE USA IS THE REAL TERRORISTS.

banshee said...

"Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding a deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. .Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that",
Martin Luther King.

frisky said...

we are with you!!! stay safe out there.

Basheir said...

Israel is the biggest liar; they keep saying they have no problem with the Lebanese people. But they keep killing and targeting civilians this we should call a terrorist.
They drop leaflets in major cities and areas to warn civilian, they use this bullshit excuse to justify their killing for civilians.

How do you want the civilians to evacuate if you bombed all the roads and bridges? And don't forget some people don’t even have money to evacuate.
If you have no problems with the Lebanese people then ask yourself why you bombed all the roads, airports, gas station, power plants, cars, and CHILDRENS.

The Israelis keep saying they took and killed our soldiers. Israel have been taken and killing civilians all of your 18 years occupation in Lebanon and not to mention they kidnapped all the leaders in Palestine recently.

Is it ok for them not for us?
Anyway the Whole World is against Israel (the New Hitler in the Middle East). Because they know they are Criminals and children killers.

ANIMALS HAVE MORE FEELING THEN ISREALIS DO.

bob2008 said...

Lebanese is an adjective referring to matters related to the Republic of Lebanon, which is located on the eastern shores of the Mediterranean.
======================================
Bob
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