Tuesday, July 18, 2006

TODAY: Peaceful Demos Around The World

Peaceful Demonstrations to Stop the Violence TODAY:

Washington, DC - 5-7pm at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., NW - in front of the White House.

New York (Manhattan) - 4-6pm at UN headquarters First Ave between 42nd St. and 48th St.


University of Berkeley campus - 12 - 2 PM at Sproul plaza

Dearborn, MI - 5:00pm on Warren and Oakman

Toronto, Canada - July 18, 2006 (7:00PM) at Dundas and Yonge (across from Easton Centre)

Montreal, Canada - 5:00PM at PMDORCHESTER SQUARE, 1155 METCALFE

Stuttgart, Germany - 6 PM at Schlossplatz in Stuttgart (downtown)

Doha, Qatar - 8:30 PM at Lebanese School of Doha

Abu Dhabi, UAE - 7:00PM in front of the Lebanese embassy Abu Dhabi

Grenoble, France - 6 PM at Place Félix Poullat, Grenoble

Athens, Greece - 7 PM In front of EVAGILISMOS Hospital

Torino, Italy - 5:30PM at Piazza Castello

London, UK - 9PM - 10.30PM on Parliament Sq. London

Abu Dahbi, UAE - 6 PM in front of the Lebanese embassy in Abu Dhabi

TOMORROW:

Boston, MA - 5 pm at Copley Place, in front of Gibran's sculpture.

"Nobody knows how many rebellions, besides political rebellions, ferment in the masses of life which people earth."

89 comments:

laila said...

Please update: Boston, US. Wednesday July 19th, 5 pm. Copley Place. In front of Gibran's sculpture.

God bless you and long live Lebanon.

mara said...

Spain: demostrations at Madrid and Barcelona on 20th July:

MANIFESTACIÓN EN MADRID JUEVES 20 JULIO. 19′30 h. desde la Puerta del SOL a la Plaza de Ópera

CONCENTRACIÓN EN BARCELONA JUEVES 20 DE JULIO. Plaça Sant Jaume, 20 h.

picimperfect said...

Where were all the demonstrations for "peace" during all those years after Israel left Lebanon and Hizbollah continued their attacks?

Jad J said...

the syrians we're not letting us demonstrate... besides, any demonstration under any arab regime IN FAVOR of the israelis is considered as an act of treason and as agents of their twisted version of zionism.

PS: i'm lebanese!

Yaakov Kirschen said...

please list the demonstrations against the hizbullah use of Lebanese territory to set up a terrorist region from which to attack a member state of the UN.
thank you,
Dry Bones
Israel's Political Comic Strip Since 1973

Mr.Zipan said...

demonstrate all over the globe as you like.

lebanon is goin to be pound into dirt for at least another 3 or 4 weeks.

our sons will be back home soon.
or...
;D


and like yaakov said, demonstrate agaisnt hizbula, use the army of lebanon against them. do something!
coz, to be honest, you dont seems to care about what hizbula is doin.

so IDF, rock on.

Scenic View said...

Go, Israel, go!

Moon River said...

i'm willing to take part in a Peaceful Demonstrations to Stop the Violence - if it means to put an end the Hizbulaa

Zeabees said...

So if you protest against Hassan Nasrallah and hizbullah, what happens? The Lebonese government charges you with treason?

Charge you with treason but let hizbullah destroy your country?

HARBOOK said...

Israel is a violent judeofascist death machine. You all are enabling her by hanging onto this hizbollah bullshit. What you people dont realize is that it isnt hizb thats doing this...its arab sentiment and outrage. Every few years theres a new vehicle. Now its under the islamic banner. A few years ago it was under arab nationalism. Its israeli actions that stir up this war by another name, not some group. How simple minded, how long have you been choking on the propaganda.

Zeabees said...

harbook

I believe it was the "hizbollah bullshit." (in your words) that started this whole mess.

HARBOOK said...

how simplistic. and israel is fighting to get its soldiers back. stop feeding on bull. the root of the cause is a marginalized arab population who feel under occupation. you cant deal with this as an action/reaction pair. the israelis are putrid in thinking of it as such.

Zeabees said...

harbook

Why dont you just admit your pure hate for the Israelis? Nothing they do or dont do is going to please you. Pure Hate. You must have a sad life.

Shmulik said...

I want to understand you Harbook:
2000 Israel withdraws from Lebanon
2000-2005 10 Israeli die, 1 abducted + 3 corpses and many wounded b Hizbalah attacks INSIDE the israeli border. And now killing 3 soldiers, abducting 2 and several civilians wounded all INSIDE Israel. You are correct thatgetting the soldiers is just one reason but Please tell me who is to blame here??

1earth said...

Harbocks right, it's Israel's fault the savage, uneducated "marginalized" Arabs in Lebanon believe they are under occupation.


Go these "peace protests" to END THE NONEXISTENT ISRAELI OCCUPATION OF LEBANON

HARBOOK said...

i am saddened when i hear such blather. peace has to be worked for, it can't be argued against. hezbollah has been attacking israel since 1983 in response to an invasion. israel created the conditions for hizb to thrive in the arab psyche. once israel removes that mentality, peace will have won. this is an ideological fight, being waged with artillery.

Stan said...

Its amazing how to Israelis time starts when they are targeted, anything prior to that is non existent. To hell with Lebanese sovereiegnty as long as the jews feel secured.
Israeli jet planes have been invading Lebanese airspace since 2000. They shoot at our sheperds and kill them. They hold our prioners indefinitely. Their mines kill and maim 20 lebanese civilians every year yet they refuse to hand the UN any maps.
Our life and soveriegnty means nothing to them as long as they feel secured, but when Hizbullah decides to do something about it ( since diplomacy rings no bell to the mind of an Israeli), all hell breaks loose. Suddenly the agressor becomes the victim and launches a "self righteous" brutal war on Lebanon.
There is a jewish proverb that says: "Do unto others as you would have them do to you". Until Israelis start doing that, until they start treating us as equal human beings who have fears and concerns, you will never feel secure. This I can safely assure.

beblebrox said...

harbook:

Call it islamism or arab nationalism or whatever the name du jour is, the goal is the same: the destruction of Israel. This will continue until the arab people accept the fact that israel is there and it isn't going away. Until the arab and persian nations and people mentally and emotionally come to grips with the fact of a majority jewish state in their midst, they will continue to be on the receiving end of violence from both israel and their own terrorist groups. It doesn't matter who did what to who and when to create the state of israel; the fact is they are there are are going to be there and no amount of rockets, kidnappings, and suicide bombs is going to change or undo that fact so they can make the best of a less tham desireable situation and find ways to acheive prosperity together, or they can continue to live frustrated, angry lives as second class citizens throughout the region.

dick said...

Doha:

I looked at the "peace demonstration's" graphic, linked to bohdisattva's post, and saw that it referred only to Israel's 'murder' of your people. Nothing about HA, Iran, Syria.

It seems to me that these peace people are just part of the anti-Israel propoganda machine.

Many of us truly want peace for your country. Your site shows this so clearly. Many of them are Israelis; there are also Europeans (like me) and Americans.

But anyone who truly wanted peace for your country would (also) be protesting against Syria and Iran, who are using your country and people as a means to further their own interests. It's really cowardly how those 'foreigners' are doing this: your people suffer, not theirs. Nothing in what HA has been doing has any possibility of benefiting Lebanon and its people but, of course, potentially benefits Iran greatly - projecting Iranian influence further into the region. The same thing America, Russia and China used to do in the Cold War: using other countries as pawns in their bigger game, letting others feel the pain while they remained comfortable.

My biggest fear for your country is that some member of the Lebanese government "officially" asks Iran or Syria for "assistance" so that they can annex Lebanon - like, for example, happened in the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. In the long run, the destruction of bridges, ports, runways and gas depots may turn out to be a good thing - preventing this from happening.

Meanwhile, it's Lebanon and Israel that suffer. This is such a tragedy. Many of the posts on your site suggest that these are two countries that could coexist happily alongside each other. But for now - so much pointless suffering.

For my part: I'm staying away from those demonstrations, and I'd urge anyone who really cares about the Lebanese people (as distinct from wanting the defeat of Israel) to do so too.

Lebanon for the Lebanese.

Peace, not ceasefire.

Ripama said...

One party cannot be peaceful when the other party is not. Therefore, peace demonstrations only serve to prolong animosities because peacniks reject decisive victories.

Decisive victories vanquish the enemies of peace.

Eran Tel-Aviv said...

we have opened a forum called holm-halom for israelis and lebanese who belive in a positive dailogue you are welcome to register and particapte in the discussions. The more people enter the forum the more the cry for peace will be heared out loud

http://z14.invisionfree.com/holmhalom/

Emma Jane Richards said...

i will be going to the candlelit vigil in London tonight because at least it means that there is a visible demonstration that people want things to be different. hopefully i will get the opporunity to engage in discussion with other interested people to think about what needs to change. clearly this is an argument with roots in history that cannot be solved overnight. blame and slander are wasteful and not resolving the issue that people are dying needlessly and Lebanon is being torn to shreds for a war that doesn't belong to them. The petty jibes on this page are simplistic and I urge all to take a good look at as much information as possible, there is plenty out there for people to make up their own minds.
the shame is that despite learning about the situation I feel powerless to change it, so i will go to the vigil tonight to think about that.
there is also an urgent demonstration called for Saturday 22nd July - see http://www.stopwar.org.uk
Israel blasting all hell out of Lebanese citizens regardless of their relationship to Hezbollah is an unfair and unbalanced response to this situation.

Diablo (israeli) said...

We thought , and truly believed that we were out
and never coming back to the green hills, the never ended
valley of the south, the beautiful terrains who's its ground had
absorbed the blood of many of my friends.
We the same as you lebanese want to go to the theater
without wondering when the show going to be interfered by the
discordant sound of the alarms. we want to enjoy picnic without
thinking of any incoming rockets. we just wanna live a usual life
with no war , no bombing , no suicide bombers in Tel-aviv, in Jerusalem and Haifa .
you cant imagine the life we are living, whether in the bus when you look into the face of every passenger and thinking if he is going to take your doom by pressing a simple button, when you walking the mall and examing customers around looking for something suspicious.
I want you to know the atmosphere you live under this moments wondering which building going to be bombed, which neighbour, which person you know will be killed is the atmosphere
prevailed here every day.

I know most of you with no regards to any faith or religion knows that this so called "resistance"claiming for the liberation of the state of Lebanon is no more than a parasite controlled by a dictatorial radical regimes, using your country as a feeding body .
Your government must stand up to fight Hizbollah and disarm it, and you the people of lebanon
the fuel for it. You who amazed the world by your unity when they killed you beloved sainted leader El-Hariri and forced the syrian troops to abandon Lebanon in three weeks.
You must find this spark in your necessity to live free without putting your country destiny, your children future in the hands of others.

YOU MUST FIGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM

Stay safe , May god protect you

(Isrleb-Imm team)

3li- said...

Ripama,

Yep, the same decisive victory you've had against the Palestinians.

3li- said...

Another diablo from Israel; How fitting...

Diablo (israeli) said...

"AL-ghad" another familiar name means "a holy war undertaken by Muslims" so fitting

3li- said...

Diablo,

Al-Ghad is Holy War? Really?

You're a typical Israeli...

As long as you cannot see how your country’s cruel methods, intransigence and greed has over the years only served to radicalize further the very people you have tried to quash for decades, you will never know peace..

This latest onslaught on Lebanon will only beget you more extremism. You can count on it..

Jad J said...

for everyone able to speak arabic.. please put al Jazeera.. there is a very interesting debate happening.

Talking about historical distorted facts by the arab extremism.

Aisah_6 said...

I'd just like to state that taking Israeli soldiers hostage, Hezbollah and the Lebanese Government respectively have brought this assualt upon themselves. Any action that occurs now is a direct result of their behaviour.
It's cause and effect.I guess the "peace protests" will still find a way to blame Israel.Israel has the right to declare war on all those who seek her destruction and wipe them out.

Jad J said...

hmmm.... we leave u guys for 24 hours, u start eating each others head... we better have a HolmHalom member constantly in the blog. :)

Harbook, al ghadab, diablo and all the rest... what ur arguing about is futile... do u really think that this is just about the 2 kidnapped soldiers... we have been posting analysis and facts for the past 7 days that shows what is really happening. go read the preivious posts to enlighten ure minds a little bit.

chen1 said...

well im from israel and im 17 years old.
i just wanna say that i see all the blood and the pain and i really send much peace to all the Lebanese kids, i also hope that u don't hate us couse we suffer too, im scared, im really scared!
i want to see the end of the war
(if i had mistakes im sorry, i dont know english very well)

why do we need all the hatred? :(

just peace,
me.

Diablo (israeli) said...

Well AL-Ghad,Abulsati3 or what so ungrandeur name. My country as every constitutional nation with democratic rudiments has the right to pledge the safety of this fundamentals. something people resembles you will never understand.
nothing is ferocious as bombing buses or snipe a 3 yrs old baby. obviously person like you whatever where you sitting in Lebanon or what so ever will never feel.

MalayKafir said...

All of the bleeding heart left wing apologists can say what they want, but the hard and fast solution to this situation is for the return of the abducted soldiers.I would expect my country to do the same as Israel.

Muxecoid said...

Journalists report lebanese Christian civilians entered firefight against Hizbullah in 2 villages. Can someone confirm this?

moral ground said...

Why is it that the Israelis are offended that us Lebanese want to have peaceful rallies? Is it too much to be given the opportunity to show the world that we don't want our people dead? Can we at least have that right? If you are so upset about your people dying, go and organize a rally yourself. But of course you don't need to, because when you are wronged, you just send in your indiscrimanating war machine to eat in it's way the green and the dry (akhdar wil yebes). Your naivete is astounding, or perhaps you are just being mean and acting dumb in order to insult us and hurt us even more in these horrible times. Our rebuilding effort, our hope, our dreams, all destroyed, and not for the first time on your bloody hands, in a matter of days. Lives shattered by you, your elected government, how can you go to sleep with such a high burden of death on your hands? I'm a humanist, and I have never condoned the killing of any human being for any cause. But my country is dying, and I'm crying to the world, but noone is hearing me. The least I can do is show the world that I stand united with my fellow man, in showing our concern for our beloved, and our disappointment with the world. You see, we have no other means to feel this comfort, because we don't have a big bad mean war machine to help protect our basic need to feel safe. So please, quit patronizing us, not only are we dealing with dead comrades, but also with lost hopes and broken dreams. But we will recover, and rebuild... It's what we're good at.

3li- said...

Israeli Diablo,

I was making a point to you. Maybe you do not eant to hear it.

The more you try to oppress, the more overwhelming force you use, you will only activate more extreme sentiments that will find a way to hit you back.

You started with the PLO, you now have to deal with hamas and the Qassam Brigades.

Today you have Hezbollah, tomorrow you will have even a more extreme version who will only want to exact revenge. That's all...

Suha said...

chen1,

YOU ARE MY HERO! You have more balls and wisdom in you than all those macho arguers put together. Whatever happens, do not change! I hope my children grow up to be like you. And I hope that there are more people like you on both sides of the border. All the old farts should take their arguments and shove them where the sun don't shine.

You sister in peace.

boaz said...

Hi,
I'm an Israeli and am disgusted at some of the comments above by other Israelis.
Regardless of whether you think or not the Israeli action is justified, if
you are a human being, you should be sad at the innocents that are getting hurt
by it, and no matter how you look at it, you can't ignore that the damage
on the Lebanese side is much larger than on the Israeli side (even though sadly a lot
of innocents are getting hurt on our side as well).
I hope the fighting soon stops and wish the best to people on both sides of the border.

Boaz

Alon said...

I'm an Israeli in Tel-Aviv.
I've read the opinions above and wanted to give you a bit of my piece of mind:

Obviously some parties here view the 'Global Problem' and in the process, simply aggregate
everything as the 'problem'.
That covers the "All arabs are evil who wants nothing other than the destruction of Israel" and also
covers the the other end that "All Israelis want is to kill arabs, rule them, take their land and occupy them".

Furtheremore, by 'grouping' all the actions together, All actions that Israel will and has been doing
INSIDE Israel and the occupied territories, and OUTSIDE Israel - i.e. Lebanon, are all single minded
actions and are to be treated in the same conviction.
Going along that line, All actions that Hamas and Hizballa and Lebanese people are doing are of the
same type and are to be treated just the same.


These are very dangerous lines of thoughts. You can argue with my statements above and debate
the validity of premises of each one of those statements and I'm sure you will disagree with at least
one of them.

The occuppied territories are Israel's hall of shame. It is an ongoing problem that has yet to reach any
resolve. There is no concensous between any party enaged in this mess and it is a matter of long and
hard future debates (and I'm sure the struggle will continue).

However, the Lebanese border is a different subject.
It cannot be 'put together' with the Palestiniene situation. Yes, there is probably unjust and painfull situtations
in the Occupied territories, but the situation in Sudan, Nigeria and other African nations engaged in
civil wars are just as painful if not even worse.
Yes, there are strong feelings about what "SHOULD BE RIGHT and what is WRONG".
But still, Hizballa's attack is nothing to do with the Palestinies. Hizballa was fighting to remove Israel from
Lebanon (and it did it very successfully, and can certainly right a triumf for this).
However, once that objective has been attained and Israel withdrew from Lebanese soil (with the official seal
of approval of the UN), there can not be any claims and attacks on this premise.
If Hizballa wanted to stay in Lebanon, it should not have made the incurrsion into Israel. It lacked the premise to
make the abduction of the Israeli soldiers. I understand the feelings of sympathy of Hizballa to the palestiniens,
but I also feel sympathy to women in Iran, yet I don't abduct people out of Iran.

I can't wait till the day will come and I will be able to enjoy the Lebanese Rivierra as a tourist. I read about it in old novels, and I'm sadden that Hizballa took it all away from the Lebanese people with false pretense of 'saviours of the world'.

3li- said...

Suha,

For the first time, an incongruous rant.

I too applaud Chen's sentiments, but your blanket statment condemning all arguments helps how excatly?

I generally like your views, but this last post makes no sense...

3li- said...

So Alon-You destroy a whole country?

Is this the logic by which you wish all states to conduct conflict? You abduct two of my soldiers, I wipe your country off the map and kill hundreds, and maybe yet, thousands of civilians, destroy your enonomy, your infrastructure, set you back decades all in a few days' work?

By any logic, it is jus not right. Even you, as biased as you may be towards your country, should admit at least that much...

box said...

hi, all!

as many of you know - some of us have lately been at this address, in a message board. actually - for a little more than 24 hours. http://z14.invisionfree.com/holmhalom/index.php

this was not a good home for the pro-israeli-action crowd, so they have moved to another address - http://www.cmc.blackcurranthost.co.uk/community.

the board i developed will now be a place to post lebanese-friendly information, as well as a place to safely discuss israel's actions in real terms without harrassment. those who really want peace and don't have to tell people how to think are welcome! the pro-israeli-action mob - is not.

box said...

al-ghad you should come over!
http://z14.invisionfree.com/holmhalom/index.php?act=idx

3li- said...

Thanks Box-I'll check it out...

Tsedek said...

Box - 7:50 -

Could you be more specific on that "pro-israeli-action-mob" thing, please? Like: who do you mean?

I saw no friction on that first message board...

Huh??


Thanx, Tse.

Michel said...

This article, written July 6th, predicted a unilateral Israeli attack!

box said...

wel, tse - they all don't like the fact that i'm doing it, #1. jad bothered me about being a co-administrator it seemed 5 times in less than 24 hours. they accused me of "abusing my powers" for not obeying their demands. jad accused me of being the reason posting was "declining" - that was after 16 hours of the board being up. peace, this isn't.

they didn't like the fact of allowing a place for people being adversely affected to talk anti-israeli-action without their "chiming in" (as they do so pleasantly), so they were incessant about my removing those forums. they accused me of "bias" for recognizing that there are hardly any posters that aren't pro-israeli-action. a few of them were assholes to me in the process; and lo, i saw the blessed announcement that jad had created a new forum at another site. it's all good, as they say.

i'm not interested in dealing with egos or imagined slights or power struggles, or whatever have you. and the people i really want to hear from and be there for - would never post there with all of that.

it's all good. i hope you stay, if you want - up to you. :)

box said...

tse - these are the comments that break my heart:

You see, we have no other means to feel this comfort, because we don't have a big bad mean war machine to help protect our basic need to feel safe. So please, quit patronizing us, not only are we dealing with dead comrades, but also with lost hopes and broken dreams. But we will recover, and rebuild... It's what we're good at.

and to have some jerk tell them how they need to accept their part in allowing israel to (STILL!) fuck up their country shows a kind of callousness i can't comprehend.

Jad J said...

so now all i am is pro-israeli.... Geez, for the first time in 7 days of continuous debate and various point of views and facing different ethnicities my temper and patience is almost exhausted.

Anyway, i will not comment on what was just, coming from people who are not actually IN the country that is being pounded like hell, thank god there is enough pressure on the IDF to avoid un-shiite area or else i wouldnt be writing this coz i'll be reading an old book, underground under candle light.

I cant believe though that in a time like this, people tend to be so narrow minded.

Goodnight

zionrules16 said...

BOX SAID
this was not a good home for the pro-israeli-action crowd, so they have moved to another address - http://www.cmc.blackcurranthost.co.uk/community.

the board i developed will now be a place to post lebanese-friendly information, as well as a place to safely discuss israel's actions in real terms without harrassment. those who really want peace and don't have to tell people how to think are welcome! the pro-israeli-action mob - is not.


Damn I love being right. LOL

posted by zionrules16 yesterday in the Day 6 thread:

box,
Thanks for the invite, but I must respectfully decline. You and I are on complete oppisite ends of the spectrum. In a strange we have alot in common, we both dislike the other side with every fiber of our being, and nobody will ever change our minds. Just as I could not trust myself to run a fair forum, I honestly don't think you can either. I think the Lebanon forum will become a jew bashing forum and the Israeli forum will become a arab bashing forum. And to be honest the come together forum will also become an Israeli bashing forum... my reason:

1. From what I have read here in this forum the only coming together is Israelis "understanding" the harm they have caused and how their treatment of the palestians is the root cause of all ills in the middle east. In other words coming together means moving the Israeli supporters a little further toward the Arab subborters. I have seen no recriprecation. Lebanon's side does not move at all toward the other


All this without one flame or post from me.

zionrules16 said...

posted by zionrules16 yesterday in the Day 6 thread:

box wants a forum with no jews so he can spew his venom.

antisemites are very predictable

Anon said...

God Bless both Arabs and Jews and may they one day come together in Peace all over the world. Wont that be an awful day for the devil?


We all bleed red and what I dont understand is why you all can live side by side in peace in the United States and not in your own countries?

I live in Chicago, Illinois USA and I live in a big building simply FILLED with Arabs and Jews and most of them fresh off the boat from their own countries and yet I never see the hate I see in these blogs.

I dont see ANYONE attacking ANYONE ELSE and every person practices their own Religion and lives side by side in peace.

I have neighbors from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afhghanastan and a whole host of Arab nations living next door IN PEACE with Jewish people from all over the world.

I am lucky enough to have personally met many of these myrid of people over the years and I learned long ago that people are people no matter their race or religion and that every person regardless of religion, race or creed has good and bad in them and that we all must work to overcome the dark sides of ourselves and learn to live in peace. Otherwise we wont be sharing this world much longer because it wont exist.


I just really dont get why you can live in peace here and not there.

maha said...

jad J.
hmmmm!!! you know what, at this point in time why don't you and all the twisted people like you go to that so called un-shiite area(the correct version in non-shiite; go learn english ya akhi before blogging ..), you will do our country a biiiig favor man.... or else even better, give up your passport and move to israel, nobody is stopping you. On the contrary, i promise we will have a statue for you !!! that will be a good joke!! my friend being narrow minded is not a sin, having a twisted mind like yours and being ignorant about it is a disaster

Jay said...

jad j

I feel your frustration also. it is difficult for people not experiencing this to understand (with respect to all not from here that support Leb or peace) I have felt much angery and felt hate these last days. I see that there are some israelis that know the terrible feeling of war and do care and believe in their hearts this is right for peace. maybe there is hope but maybe now there is too much emotion to talk, that is the way it is for me. Hope you are good. to those from other countries, i like to read and that you care but please be respectful to others emotion. I know I have not been always but i will try.
peace

Daniel van der Stoep said...

I have made a poem for Lebanon.

Please except as a token of wishfull thinking

May God forgive all of us

http://www.danielvanderstoep.nl/2006/07/my-poem-to-god-for-lebanon.html

Jay said...

Daniel

i think someday when this life is over for us we are all going to be asking for and needing forgivness. hopefully we will recieve it.

Mirvat said...

DANIEL THANK YOU SO MUCH
it is this kind of support and that of many many of our european, arabic and american friends that gives us hope that the world still cares

Stuart said...

Please update:

There is a meeting in support of the Lebanese in Paris on Wednesday 19 July at Métro Invalides.

RASSEMBLEMENT MERCREDI 19 JUILLET A 18H30 DEVANT LE MINISTERE FRANCAIS DES AFFAIRES ETRANGERES Métro Invalides

Daniel van der Stoep said...

Thx, you all, I will be posting it on the new topic as well.

God bless Lebanon

God bless all of us

Anon said...

Jay,
No disrespect intended. I respect and pray for every person living in Lebanon and Israel and I grieve for the lives lost. May God Bless you and yours and may Peace come quickly for both Nations.

Jad J said...

@ MAha

Well thats the only "nomenclature" i have for the areas being shelled by the IAF. Do u have another one? please share it so i wont sound as a racist.

And if bringing people together is Twisted now, How typical, u remember me of a regime we both know, where longing for coexistence is a work of "zionist traitors",,,, allah ybachir bil kheir fik w bi kil yalli mitlak!

Let me see u go tell my realtives who are being shelled in Ayn Ibil and Wedeh Chahrour becoz Hizbullah are firing from Urban areas, well i would take this as a must in such a war, but the striking fact is the "Media coverup". try to live in the south for instance and see how they work.

Eran Tel-Aviv said...

Hello Jad.

would you mind explaining me how holm-halom manged to reck itself in less than 24 hours? i was sleeping in the time. I'll register later in the new forum. this is so typical of israelis and lebanese..if it wasn't so sad i would be a good laugh.
dream well my friend

Jad J said...

why is the damn lebanese media deniying and covering the shooting from between the villages, which justifies all the rogue missiles. i know the IAF are not doves, i know the one pushing the "fire" button is hoping to kill as much enemies as possible, full of hate and anger, but probably becoz he lost a fellow soldier or thinking of his family back in Haifa being shelled also....

Both sides are full of anger, and that will take us nowhere, didnt take us anywhere in 1975 and in 1988, but accepting each other regardless of religion or political background TOOK us somwhere in 2005. Or u prefer to stay under the syrian regime.

Jad J said...

Dear Eran,

this was originally posted by someone on the Holm Forum,

"By not reacting to our suggestions you would be abusing your own generous act of supplying us with this forum."

what happened is the follwing:

1- A forum administrator who refuses to take suggestions from others who happen to contradict his/her own point of views (given that He/she admits he's at one of the extremes).

2- the newer forum has lots of more features listed at the welcome page. because we intend to establish a permanent forum once and for all (user friendly, customizable, expandable, adaptable) and that is why we also dropped the Googlegroups forum.
In addition, some people have volunteered to suplly us with: a server, a host name for a website dedicated to our group, adn a website.

and nothing is wrecked, humanitarian efforts are underway, we might see soon for the first time in lebanese modern history, Israeli ordinary citizens sending humanitarian aids to the Lebanese on the other side. and we are currently contacting several blog owners to post a link about our ambitious group on their blogs.

Besides, i was told that Israelis and Lebanese are bashing each others on other blogs, at least we are still a bit civilized in our responses despite the anger and differences.

Dream Big, :)

Eran Tel-Aviv said...

Jad, Your'e a great person
if you could be cloned may be our exsitence in the region would be totaly different. I hope more lebanese will join the discussion groups and start making a difference. What doha wrote about the womans banner denouncing Hizb be wripped to pieces makes you wonder....
thanks, keep safe, and cu on the holm-halom forum :D
Eran

Eran Tel-Aviv said...

Jad,
IAF pilots are very professional they don't shoot based on emotions. Just qualifying the IAF school is something which is far from easy. I don't think they fire when in doubt only when based on intell, well at least I hope they don't.

Alon said...

"i know the IAF are not doves, i know the one pushing the "fire" button is hoping to kill as much enemies as possible, full of hate and anger, but probably becoz he lost a fellow soldier or thinking of his family back in Haifa being shelled also...."

I second the observation of eran tel-aviv.
While ground troops may be engaging with fire and are close to the physical part of the fight, and have lost friends/other soldiers, the IAF is 'detached' from this. You probably don't know this, but the IAF pilots are on a league of their own - they befriend only with themselves and a like and the two year course detaches them from the field soldier. As the IAF has not lost pilots (well.. less than 15 in the past 10 years), the emotional side is a non issue.
When they fly the plane, they don't have the "oh.. I hate arabs let me bomb them". The mindset is totally different. It is: "My mission is to hit..such and such co-ordinates and bring the plane and myself safe home".
I don't think any air force (of any nation) has the luxury of even having the time to think about "maximizing the death toll".
That's not the IAF pilots that are doing this. It is rather an intell' combined with some strategic and tactic commanders. The pilot itself is just a 'driver on the bus'.



Al-Ghadabulsaati3 said...
So Alon-You destroy a whole country?

It is all context sensitive.
If you ignore anything prior to a week ago,. then yes.. Israeli is just a brute that is bombing another country.
But, this isn't the case, is it?
Since 2000 withdrawl of Israel outside the boundry of Lebanon, Hizballa has been acting in every possible way to provoke Israel.
Israel doesn't want to be in Lebanon. We have enough on our plate as it is.
You might want to stop and ask why does the Hizballa have over 11,000 long range missles in Lebanon. What is the purpose of building such an arsenal?
Keep in mind the context of things.
"Israel is bombing Lebanon". Why? Just out of the blue?
Do you belive Israel feels threatend by Lebanese people? (I'm making the distinction between Lebanese and Hizballa, Syrian and Iran).
With that said, and with the world understanding that Israel has the full right to protect itself, yes,. Israel is exerting an anormous amount of fire power, and YES, civilians who harbour terorists do get hit and on occation, innocents do get hit, but the difference is: Israel did not and still does not target the innocents. The innocents that Israel hits, are not the primary target. If anything, Israel feels bad for them. But, the flip side of this,. is that Hizballa has the entire population of Israel as targets, Israel has dropped flyers letting the folks they are going to hit, that "please evacuate before we bomb the Specific missle and enemy houses". We don't have that coming with the Katyushas flying in.
What is the law in California?
3 strikes and u'r out?
How many ambushes and attacks has the Hizballa made since 2000?
If you can take a stand here,. take a stand in Lebanon. The Lebanese people are nice people, very generous, but they have to have a landlord that enforces the house rules. The Lebanese gov't needs to be that landlord. It needs to evacuate the bad tenents of Hizballa. Sure they can throw a great party, but they also can't just terrorise the whole neighbourhood and not expect that someday, someone will bring the house down.

Suha said...

Al-Ghadabulsaati3,

I had not read all the posts so it cannot be a blanket statement. If you read back, you would realize I was reacting to what I described as "macho arguers". As in "let's bomb the s*** out of them" arguers.

Suha said...

Alon,

I am afraid you are drawing a line where it suits you and misrepresenting everything that comes before that.

Between 2000 and 2006 it was not only the people on the Israeli side of the border who suffered. Lebanese suffered from IDF fire too. In my immediate vicinity I know someone who was fishing just south of Tyre, he was picked up by a frog, and was framed for a suicide bombing in Tel Aviv. He was not even a member of Hizballah, let alone a militant. Last year a shepherd was shot in the back. I happened to go to the south the same week and talked to members of the family. He was 16. Not a militant.

These are stories that I have come across with personally. And they were unprovoked as so many people here are so fond of saying. If you are interested, I can dig up more stories like that. And let's not forget the constant invasion of air and water space in Lebanon. Sometimes provoked, many times not. First, Israel calls for Lebanon to exercise its sovereignty and then it constantly invades air and water space. What kind of message does that give? It is like now, asking the army to fight Hizballah with it and then bombing them!

I have been keeping an open mind to understand the other side's point of view. The least you can do is get off the self-righteousness horse and do the same. Try to understand the other side. It is not as black and white as you make it out to be. Your IDF is not as innocent as you would like them to be. We have many stories that attest to that. If you do not listen, I am afraid the only peace there ever will be is an imposed and fragile one.

Calling your soul said...

http://calling4love.blogspot.com/2006/07/blog-post.html

Shmulik said...

Suha
I think you miss something. The IDF is made of israeli citizns. I can tell you for a fact that Israel does have it's share of sadists murderes, thieves, rapists and so on (like all other countries in the world). We are human for good or ill. Some of these do get in the army despite the best screenings. As you see No one in Israel can honestly claim we have never commited a war-crime (I can site a few from memory). The point is what is our POLICY towards harming civilians? Is harming civilians our modus operandi?
I can honestly look you in the face and say that we don't target civilans if militants are not hiding among them or use their infrastructure. Can I vouch for every missile, every bullet? no I can't. It still doesn't make me even remotlely in the same moral footing like the hizbollah or the hamas.

Suha said...

The point is what is our POLICY towards harming civilians? Is harming civilians our modus operandi?

Yes, Shmulik. I am sorry to tell you that it is. Your justifications are growing weaker by the day with the rising death toll and no matter how you spin it, nothing will morally justify what the IDF is doing to Lebanon right now.

Shmulik said...

Suha
please explain to me than why the death toll is only 350 (including militants)? I know the word "only" sounds awful to you but for a week of air attacks against defense less civilians this is EXTREMELY low (I can site dozens of historical examples).
Let me be blunt:
-If hizballah fires from a village it becomes a valid target.
-If trucks are being used to move hizballah rockets, and hizballah trucks are not clearly marked than trucks are valid targets.
-If hizballah rocket trucks move over a bridge the bridge is a valid target even if also used by civilians refugees.
This is the price for having a terrois organization hide in your country.
Is this fair to the innocent lebanese?? no. War is never fair.

Suha said...

30-50 civlians a day is no where near low. Even granting that it is, you have not looked closely at what the IDF is targeting. Most of these things are not of strategic importance. The civilian airport? A church? A villa? Grain silos? Pharmaceutical factory? And why is help not allowed to get to the villages? Why are refugees who have been warned to flee fired at when they do? Do you want more? Because there is much, much more.

This is collective punishment. It has nothing to do with Hizballah hiding among civilians.

So, yes: harming civilians is your modus operandi.

Shmulik said...

Suha
I understand your pain but not your conclusions. Civilian airport? Do you honestly think a cargo plane from Iran or Syria won't be used to smuggle weapons? As long as hizballah is hiding behind civilians (as Jad j has said and I myself saw in Al-Jazeera 2 destroyed rocket launcher 3 meters from a civilian house), I am content to believe this and honest mistakes are the cause of civilian deaths be it near a church or a grain silo. I must say honest mistakes can have horrible results, I am tempted to use marwaheen as an example but you wouldn't believe me. I will use another example during the war in Serbia a NATO jet destroyed the chinise embassy killing many diplomats. Do you think this wasn't a mistake and the US wanted a war with china?

Thomas B said...

Shmulik you seem to have a pretty good knowledge and to be open minded. I understand your point but :

Why Isreal did not discuss with Lebanese officials or with western allies before bombing Lebanon, a country which is higlhy considered all around the world as a culturally rich country not as a country governed by fanatics? They should have work harder for a change of regime in Lebanon. They should have show skills of communication and diplomcay. Even if it is hard, it would have shown that they care about their neighbours. I don't beleive war is the solution to every problems. It is not because the US acts like this that it gives Israel the right to start a war involving civilians. Isreal is not the US. It was not clear if Lebanese government was supporting Hizballah. They could have tried to negociate, at least a little bit with Lebanese government. Lebanon really means something for people who like Middle East. It has a great history and diversity. They invoke the UN resolution of Israel retreat from Lebanon but they've never discussed their attacks with the UN. If Isreal wants to kill its ennemies they should look elsewhere than in Lebanon. They are only showing their weaknesses with this war. They must get more allies in the Middle-East.

Thomas
Montreal, Canada

Suha said...

I understand your pain but not your conclusions

How condescending.
It does not seem like you have been following the news closely: the airport terminal was hit after the runways were completely destroyed. I will not go into the rest.

A few mistakes, I understand. I even kept an open mind about it the first few days. But it has exceeded "a few". The IDF is carrying out a systematic attempt at terrorizing the civilian population.

So, again: harming civilians is your modus operandi.

Your sentence, not mine. I am very grateful to you for articulating the situation very clearly.

Shmulik said...

Suha
Get real. If we really wanted to terroize you the next sortie would be armed with cluster-bombs and FAE instead of guided bombs. It's much cheaper and can terroise much more efficiantly. About mistakes i can say that we tried to kill Muhamad Def (top hamas militant) about 5 times from the air and each time eighter we missed, the bomb didn't go off or other shit happened. He is still too much alive. By your logic since many mistakes don't happen you need to assume we don't really want to kill him.
You can blame Israel, the world, US, UN or the pinguins in Antarctica all you want but in the end you can't share a bed with a pschotic killer and than be suprised when the bullets start flying. Maybe the reason every goverment in the world exept Iran, Syria, Yemen and Sudan is not a zionist mega-concpiracy but an indication that you are victims but sure as hell not innocent ones.

Shmulik said...

please insert "supports our action at least implicitly" after the word Sudan.

Suha said...

Shmulik said:
Doha, Do you honestly believe that a religeous organisation like the hizballah that gets 100 million dolars a year from Iran will surrender it's weapons just because Seniora asks nicely?

Shmulik also said:
in the end you can't share a bed with a pschotic killer and than be suprised when the bullets start flying.

Your logic is deteriorating. So, you know that a billion dollar organization better equipped than the Lebanese army cannot be disarmed by the government. But since we are sharing our bed with "these psychotics" we have to pay the price? As what, punishment? Because we cannot disarm them? You are not making sense. Unless it is regarding them as human that we are being punished for?

And no, they would not use cluster bombs when the whole world is watching. Keep treading that thin line between accident and intention. The media will definitely miss it, but not your victims. It is meant to terrorize them and *clap, clap* congratulations, it is definitely working.

Shmulik said...

Suha
we have a break through!!!!
You finaly admit hizballah will not disarm peacefuly so your entire "What do you want, we are free for only a year we will talk to them and integrate them" is just a load of crap you toss to explain why you do nothing to stop them. This only illustrates my point that the sudden respect for civilian life that you gained only applies north of the border. No one said that disarming the Hizballah would be easy. Probably it will involve a civil war (which you can count on the US/Israel/UN to help in, but the fact that you are hizballah's acomplices because you fear them and not because you like them (I guess Lebanon is split 50/50 on this) still makes you their acomplices. If you make a deal with the devil you have to pay. My point still stands. Israel fights hizballah. They hide in your cities, Use your roads and airports, don't wear uniforms and so on. Please don't deny it I have seen with my own eyes two destroyed rocket launchers 3-4 meters from a house. I have seen it in Al-Jazeera, Jad J has seen it inside Lebanon and the IDF ses it all the time (but you wouldn't believe zionist propoganda like Al-Jazera now, wouldn't you? or Jad J the filthy mossad agent) so your feeble attempts to deny it make me suspect your good faith in this argument. We do respect human lives we do make mistakes and we don't have a magic weapons that can hit a rocket launcher and spare the civilians around. I have told you I can't explain every bomb (like the chinese embassy in Serbia or your labane factory) but taking the large view I can say our hands are (largely) clean.

Shmulik said...

Thomas B
Thank you for your candid view but as Suha so "heartily" agreed with me in her last post hizballah will never ever disarm or cease attacks willingly, (I'll explain again if you want) no matter how long negotiations woud drag on. To negotiate you have to have some one to negotiate with. Can you negotiate with Bin-Laden? Hizballah is the same only Shi'te and not sunni which doesn't make them any less crazy (perhaps more). If you will read my posts I have explained why the lebanese government will never force the issue on hizballah and be content to sit down while only israeli die a little (or a lot).
What will discussing with the UN accomplish? Do you honestly believe the UN would get an agreement with the hizballah?? The UN won't order an israeli attack as well. Like the Lebanese government, they will just talk to death (israeli death I mean ;) ). This is like the 6th or 7th (maybe more) fatal incursion inside our border since our withdrawl from Lebanon and we sat down and done nothing. Did some one try to stop hizballah?? not a soul on the planet. How much longer must we wait until you Thomas B and moral people like you (no sarcassm), will be convinced that military action is justified?? another 6 years? 60 years?? How many israelis must sacrifise their lives on the altar of your good conscience??

Lynda said...

Where is Beirut, Lebanon in the list of demonstrations for peace? If this happened to most nations, their people would be out on the streets in protest, bombs or no bombs. Where are the Lebanese? Not standing up publicly for peace gives the erroneous impression that they support the warmaking Hezbollah. Even during the "civil" war in Lebanon, we held peace demonstrations so where are the Lebanese peaceniks now?

MERKOVA said...

Oh great peace loving arabs... I'm in tears laughing. You guys might be here in the US but it doesnt mean your innocent not involve in supporting one of those terrorist cells.

There will be no peace if you arabs does not know what it means.

Max Baumann said...

Over 200 Australians were killed in Bali, Indonesia as a result of terrorism yet Australia didn't bomb the hell out of Jakarta.

Collective punishment of innocent Lebanese people is not accpetable. Israel is breaking international law and is one of the world's biggest breakers of international laws yet the world doesn't act against it because the US simply vetoes any resolutions in the UN Security Council.

Hezbollah is also breaking international law by killing innocent Israelis. This is also unacceptable. The thing is, this "war" is not about Lebanon or Islam. It is about Hezbollah and Israel.

The US is providing Israel with the weapons to kill innocent Lebanese people and destroy their civilian infrastructure.

Israel's actions are only making Hezbollah and Hamas more popular.

I hope that the powers that be see that the Lebanese have a right to live in peace as do the Israelis. Both sides don't deserve to suffer for the actions of Hezbollah.

MERKOVA said...

Max... Max .... Are you so ignorant that you cant recognize the difference between Bali and Lebanon. Are you a peaceniks?

MERKOVA said...

So are we going to have a terrorist fund raising or what?

ttueoop said...

merkova,

grow up. you're suggesting these fine lebanese people are to blame. they aren't. they're caught in the middle primarily because of their weak government, military and those outside influences most of them have no idea about.

hamas, hezbollah, israel, iran, syria and to a lesser degree the united states, russia and china are to blame.

these fine people are certainly not to blame!

they had a taste of freedom, of democracy... teased... pleased and then all hell broke loose!

their lives shattered... again... they grow sick of it.

there are no terrorist fund raiser groups here. they want their country, their lives back!

as would i.

Anna said...

I wish good luck to all participants!

Clenbuterol