Thursday, July 13, 2006

They Did It!

Went to a meeting for two hours and guess what? Hizbullah did follow through on its threat and hit Haifa!

Update 1: Hizbullah is denying that it attacked Haifa. So who did it?

Update 2: More back and forth rockets across the border, with an increasing number of civilian casualties on both sides. Gosh, can't wait to get home to flip through the channels.

Update 3: An Israeli Minister has vowed to civilians in northern Israel to have Beirut burnt!

"Nobody knows how many rebellions, besides political rebellions, ferment in the masses of life which people earth."

77 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wonderful! Here comes the IDF!

Anonymous said...

Bye Bye Beruit

frencheagle said...

as was saying libnanews

2 katioucha hit haifa but the hezbollah denies that they have sent them

well seems tonight we ll have to enjoy fireworks on beirut

i hope they wont hit back the downtown

Anonymous said...

they now deny it

Anonymous said...

Sure, we can depend on a swift and painful response from the IDF. After all, a single threat to a Jewish life is worth 50 dead Lebanese.

Anarchistian said...

There is no proof that Haifa has been hit until pictures come in. This may just be a ploy.

carine said...

as i posted on the previous thread:

hezbollah is denying they fired the rockets on haifa. which probably means they didn't do it-- based on past experience, they'd be the first to boast if they had.

not sure how this will impact the IDF response (if at all). but so far no visual or auditory indications that anything has happened in beirut.

anarchistian-- i saw some pictures on tv. the attacks don't look like they were particularly severe, and apparently there are no casualties.

Anonymous said...

In haifa and Kiryat-Ata
for sure...
I'm sorry for the people in lebanon, unfortunately you gonna suffer because of stupid hizbulla

Eran from Haifa
:-(

Anonymous said...

Not only does the Government not know what Hezbullah is doing, Hezbullah doesn;t know what Hezbullah is doing.

Anarchistian said...

Carine, how can you tell it was Haifa?

Anonymous said...

Wag the dog

carine said...

well i can't, but the frames were from israeli tv, and i think they'd know the difference. unless its just a MASSIVE conspiracy, and the images are from a set in L.A., of course... sigh.

Solomon2 said...

Again, Hizbollah is NOT stupid! They just take their orders from Teheran and Damascus, that's all.

They will try to push the Iran nukes issue of the international agenda and distract world attention with this conflict. No matter what Israel does, they don't want the conflict to end any time soon - which is why Israel must take steps to reduce the terrorists' capabilities immediately.

moriclanuser said...

the news just showed cell phone footage of an officer reporting on the katyusha hitting haifa.

carine said...

anon 2:01 - ha you just beat me to it!

Aaron DeLay said...

Keep on bloggin! As an ex-pat (american) in the Philippines I'm checking your site hourly to keep updated on what is going on. Stay safe...

moriclanuser said...

mabat just said that the katyisha hit the center of haifa. the name of neighborhood is ha meshouva ha germanit(german settlement).

carine said...

Update 3: An Israeli Minister has vowed to civilians in northern Israel to have Beirut burnt!

and who says syria and israel have nothing in common?

some neighbors we've got, hmm? god save us all...

mono said...

stay save in lebanon. on one hand i feel lucky that my original plans of summer holidays in beirut didn't work out, on the other hand the people ther could use all the support they can get.

damn the hezb'allah, damn the IOF ... damn every politician from nasrallah to olmert, from asad to aoun, from peretz to ahmadi nedjad and from peres to lahoud. and damn averyone i didn't mention for lack of space.

Anonymous said...

where did you get that info from Carine? could you give us a link or a source? thanks

CatoRenasci said...

General William Tecumsah Sherman said War is Hell! -- which he proceeded to demonstrate in his march from Atlanta to the Sea.

When you let terrorists like Hizbullah be part of your government, and Hizbullah commits acts of war, unless you excise Hizbullah from the body politic, you cannot complain when those who have been attacked decide to wage real war instead of the 'tit-for-tat' Sitzkrieg (or "Phony War") that has been going on recently.

War is really, really ugly. Don't let Lebanon be a pawn of Iran.

joe said...

Haaretz reporting that the two rockets that hit Haifa were of the Fajar model (iranian made and ? hizbullah owned). They hit the Stella Maris area near French Carmel. There were no reported casualties.
But this is circumstantial evidence and doesn't mean that hizbullah did it...we still can't prove it wasn't the Swedes for example.

Anonymous said...

Adachia is beeing bomb
where is that?

Eran from Haifa

Anonymous said...

2:13 said: nasrallah to olmert, from asad to aoun, from peretz to ahmadi nedjad and from peres to lahoud

Sorry, Moral Relativism does not apply in this case...

Hezbollah = Bad
IDF(I dont know what IOF is) = Good

Lebanese Muslims = Bad
Lebanese Christians = Good

Ahmadinajad = Bad
Olmert = Good

Any Questions?

Anonymous said...

that's the southern suburb of Beirut

carine said...

yeah i'm hearing from friends that dahiyeh is getting hit but can't seem to find news of it on any channel. anyone know anything more?

Anonymous said...

Security officials report Beirut's international airport has been attacked by Israel for a second time today, The Associated Press reports and as seen on Lebanese TV.

mono said...

anonymous, i envy your for your easy black-and-white views of the world ... too bad it doesn't work out for me, it certainly would make me sleep easier at night. and congratulations for blaming a whole community (lebanese muslims) without even thinking twice. and IOF is the acronym for the israeli occupation force .... ok not too unbiased from my part either, but hey.

Joe said...

Catorenasci:
I agree that war is hell and hizbullah's actions are inexcusable. But you must realize that just because they are part of the government does not mean that they are a legitamite group. They certainly do not speak for the mainstream lebanese. Hizbullah would not be armed right now had it not been for Syria and Iran who are backing it. So please do not blame the current government for Hizbulla's actions.
Israel is has been waiting for an excuse to unleash their wrath on Hizbullah.
Anon 2:13- Life is relative, and from your internal politics you should know that nothing about politics is empiric

Anonymous said...

Update 3: An Israeli Minister has vowed to civilians in northern Israel to have Beirut burnt!

Carine, could you please let us know where you got this information? Thank you.

Joe said...

airport was hit again by 2 navy gunboats. my heart is breaking.

carine said...

anon: i copied it from doha's post above.

joe: mine too :(

ok, so apparently both the southern suburbs and the airport are being hit.

no overt indications of this though from jeitaoui. i can't hear anything except crickets and normal traffic (roads are neither empty nor crowded).

Joe said...

Carine:
people in beirut are going around minding their usual daily business? We are one resiliant people!

CatoRenasci said...

Joe said But you must realize that just because they are part of the government does not mean that they are a legitamite group. They certainly do not speak for the mainstream lebanese. Hizbullah would not be armed right now had it not been for Syria and Iran who are backing it. So please do not blame the current government for Hizbulla's actions.

We have a saying: Lie down with dogs, and you're going to get fleas.

The Lebanese have to choose: are they with Hizbullah and Syria (and Iran)? or not? If they're not with them, then they must actively repudiate them by deeds,not just words. If the Lebanese are with Hizbullah and Syria (and Iran), then you cannot complain when the Israelis respond.

Life is not fair, and I wish Lebanon had a lot more time to sort things out, but Iran and Syria and Hizbullah set this timetable, not me or the Israelis. At some point, great powers decide they will no longer let the gnats bite. When great powers strike out at the gnats, lots of people can get hurt. For my part, I think it's long past time that someone put paid to Hizbullah like the Jordanians did to Black September.

Anonymous said...

What does this mean for the shipment of blu-ray DVD players scheduled to hit Beirut shelves this Christmas? Damn Shame...

Anonymous said...

Iran needs this to divert attention of G-8 summit and UN handle. So expect this to not end soon.

mono said...

catorenasci, how do you think the people can react to hezb'allahs actions? do you think demonstrations would deter the israeli army from bombing beirut? i say fuck ahmadi nedjad, and fuck nasrallah, but having the citizens pay the price and consider this legitimate is a cynical joke. and never mind that israel is the superpower in the region, it is like shooting a 12 yr old with a shotgun because he kicked your butt.

Israeli said...

my advise to all Lebanese: stop Hizbullah! Otherwise we will do it ourselves and you will be hurt hard

Joe said...

Catorenasci:
Great power implies great wisdom. Power without wisdom is merely brutality. You yourself said that Iran and Syria set the agenda, and that the Lebanese needed more time to sort this out. We have made great strides over the past 2 years, and needed a bit more time. Isreal should have been wise enough to wait a little bit rather than get suckered into an all out offensive (which is exactly what Iran and Syria want).
Yes, you are striking at the gnats, but you are doing it by slamming a shoe on your own head.
The gnats will ultimately survive (you will never be able to completely eliminate Hizbullah, and whoever survives will have 10 times more hatred toward Israel).
So at the end of the day you end up hurting yourself. Not wise at all, mon ami...in fact very stupid.
Keep hitting our airport and soon you will have moderates like me hating Israel.

CatoRenasci said...

how do you think the people can react to hezb'allahs actions? do you

To begin with: (1) Expel Hizbullah from the government and parliament. (2) Refuse to cooperate in any way with Hizbullah (3) Ask the French Foreign Legion (if you don't want the Americans) to come in and clean Hizbullah out.

That would be enough for starters. But you have to choose whether you're for or against Hizbullah, Syria and Iran. You cannot expect anyone to let you be neutral while Hizbullah is part of your government. Ain't gonna happen.

mono said...

agree on 1 and 2, 3 is a joke i hope :) still, do you believe 1 and 2 would stem the current suffering of lebanese? won't bring the gaza difficulties in at all for now.

and for the records, i detest the hezb'allah, asad and nedjad ... but i detest the israli politics as well, and as for them being the regional superpower, they bear the brunt of responsability on what is going on imo. taking the current israeli reaction over the last week or so, i assume olmert's and peretz' main reason is to show they aren't weak - a tactical, shortsightened action with the domestic public as main recipient.

mono said...

*i won't bring

CatoRenasci said...

Joe: it sucks to be Lebanon right now. No question. It's not fair. And, I really wish Lebanon had more time. But, you're stuck with the situation as it is.

BTW, I'm neither Israeli nor jewish - just an American historian and former army officer who tries to see things realistically.

Sometimes you have no good choices in war, and have to make the least bad decision. That's where Lebanon is now. Seems to me that hating the Israelis - who are responding in accordance with international law to an act of war - is a losing proposition, both short and long term. It's a good way to end up very dead, or at least with a shattered country. On the other hand, putting the blame where it belongs, on the Hizbullah nutjobs, the Syrians and the Iranians, is a winner, at least long term. Syria may be able to bully you, but they can't run with the big dogs, and they know it. So, they get the Iranians in their corner. The Iranians aren't weak, but they're not a great power either. When push comes to shove, if a real war starts, and really powerful bombs start flying, my money is on the Israelis and the US, not Iran and Syria. Hint: we're not a paper tiger. We don't like war, but if someone pops a nuke on the Israelis, there are going to be a lot of radioactive glass parking lots that glow in the dark for the next 1,000 years in the Middle East. Don't be one of them.

CatoRenasci said...

mono: #3 was not a joke. If the Lebanese are not militarily strong enough to disarm Hizbullah, then you have to get someone else to do it for you - you can't just sit back in your weakness and say "we're victims, too". That is a large part of my point. I only suggested the French because (a) the Foreign Legion is good and could do it, (b) the French have a long history of good relations with Lebanon, and (c) they're not we Americans of whom you might be suspicious that we were doing Israel's bidding.

Anonymous said...

At least 9 Israeli soldiers and civilians dead (two captured soldiers as good as dead), the third largest city hit by rockets, hundreds of thousands sleeping in bomb shelters - what again is Israel's appropriate response supposed to be?

mono said...

catorenasci - did you think of the political implications, at all?

french legion policing the southern lebanon ... *shudder*

CatoRenasci said...

french legion policing the southern lebanon ... *shudder*
Shudder, indeed. But, would you rather have Israelis doing it? or American troops? I wasn't suggesting the Frogs stay, just that they clean house for you. Knowing the French, it might be hard to get them out, but still I would think the Lebanese would rather have the French than Hizbullah, Syria, Iran or Israel sitting with 5,000 troops in Southern Lebanon.

joe said...

Catorenasci:
I am not justfying Hizbullah, Syria, or Iran. In fact I condemn them. But I also condemn this israeli reaction at this time. Isreal must defend itself against Hizbullah, but Lebanon is NOT Hizbullah.
Your obvious bias towards Israel and the fact that you can't seem to comprehend that even though Hizbullah is a faction in the government does not imply that it is legitamite is clear.
So, for the last time: The government does NOT represent us and it was on its way down (you acknowledged Syria's weakness) up until now that Israel was suckered into conflict and thereby has re-strengthened Hizbullah.
For such an enlightened historian, you do not seem to even vaguely comprehend the intricacies of the middle east.
I never accused the US of being a paper-tiger. Perhaps that was your own subconscious at seeing the treatment countries with real nukes (i.e. Iran and N Korea) get as opposed to those who have dirst (afghanistan and iraq).
Anyway, that is besides the point and please do not ever threaten me again with your nukes. If you fire nukes, we (i.e. humanity) all lose.
As an educated american historian you must know that T. Roosevelt did not advocate using his big stick at every gnat that came his way.
But then again being educated does not imply that you actually learned anything. There is no way I can unbias you, and this is taking way too much time and energy.
I lived 17 years in war. You served 2 years in the army. Our perspectives could not be more diametrically opposite. One when person dies in war, humanity also dies. Do not ask for who the bell tolls...it tolls for thee.
Have a good day, mon ami (since you see the world in black and white, I would be remiss not to alert you that you actually are not my friend).

Anonymous said...

OK Joe, you are prime minister of Israel for the week: you have 100,000s of your citizens sleeping in shelters, missiles pouring down on your country, funerals to attend - what would you do?

Joe said...

same as was done with several previous hardhips. This is not the first time your people go through hardship, and most of the successful solutions were not obtained by brute force. Once again, I am not justifying Hizbullah's actions. But for the love of God, think before you jump! Brute force is never the right answer.

Anonymous said...

Joe: that was rather unspecific and evasive. Leaders have to make actual decisions, give orders etc. They are responsible for defending their people. Think, try harder to put yourself in Israel's shoes for a moment, then answer again.

Joe said...

Anon:
No it was neither evasive nor vague. Do you not know your own history? Israelis were injured, in shelters, and wearing gas masks when Saddam fired missiles. Depites all the Israeli government threats at the time, I did not see the IAF immediately bomb the shit out of baghdad. They took a deep breath, which is exactly what you did not do this time around.
You DO NOT invade a country because of 2 prisoners without even scratching your head to think about it, just as the US would not invade Mexico. You at least try diplomacy first. Let alone if the prisoners were taken by a militia.
The bottom line, Israel was has been waiting for the right time to do this to Hizbullah and Lebanon.
Your is too premature and out of proportion. It will also hurt you in the long run. You should have taken a breath.

Kal said...

We (those of us there or with families in Lebanon) are the pawns in the middle of all this. I wish someone there had the guts to stand up to Hezbollah once and for all.

Going by the way the day has developed, I imagine Hezbollah planned on striking Haifa after the attack they expected Israel to do in Dahyeh or other areas of South Beirut. They attacked Haifa too early and it seems they are denying it for fear of alienating even more of us from Lebanon.

Anonymous said...

Ok Joe, that was a thought out response - thanks. First off, Iraq War I is a bad example, b/c Israel had an agreement with the US not to respond b/c it would offend the Arab coalition members and the US was, in your words, "bombing the shit out of bagdad." So Prime Minister Joe would do nothing but try to negotiate with the hostage takers. Rational, perphaps, but what message would that send to the Nasrallah? Would he be happy with - in his mind - bringing Israel to its knees that one time and allow everyone to live happily everafter? I don't think you would last long in office.

CatoRenasci said...

Joe: I feel for you, I really do. You're wishing for a world that does not exist, one where we can all wait and do things at the most propitious time and in the most porpitious way. I understand what you're saying that you don't consider Hizbullah legitimate just because they're in the government. In your mind, and in the mind of many (most?) Lebanese, you're right. But, in international law, you're wrong.

I'm actually not biased in favor of Israel, unless you consider not expecting the Israelis to stand pat indefinitely while being attacked to be pro-Israeli bias. I was a big fan of Israel making a peace deal and giving up land, if only the Palestinians and other Arabs would then make real peace with Israel. Since 9/11, I have come to the conclusion that negotiations with terrorists are a deadly mistake. They only way to stop terrorism is to kill enough terrorists that the rest of them slink off into caves where they can do little harm.

I may not be your friend, but I am Lebanon's friend - assuming Lebanon wants to be free of the warfare between Israel and the Arabs. But to be neutral, you can't harbor the fighters of one side. The Jordanians had to run the Palestinians out. You will have to do the same. Get rid of Hizbullah, be a real neutral, and I'd be the first one doing everything I can to make sure Lebanon was not molested by anyone.

BTW, I was not threatening you with nukes. I am very much afraid this war will escalate, and that ultimately the Iranians will get a nuke and use it. I sure hope they don't, but I think they will. When that happens, I'm not threatening nuclear war, I'm just predicting that I think that's what will end up happening, despite everyone's best efforts to avoid it (short of surrender to Iran, which I don't advocate). I think a nuclear exchange, if it happens (a) will be very one-sided and (b) may well engulf those in the ME who have not been clearly on our side.

Joe said...

I never said I would not retaliate against hizbullah. I said I would negotiate and exert pressure first (international pressure, just as Irag war 1 was an international effort and israel diplomatically cooperated), and if that fails I will hit HIZBULLAH. Not the airport, not the highways, not the bases of the Lebanese Army. But actual Hizbullah insititutions (yes, the Mosad knows exactly where they all are).
I would achieve my objectives, but the reason I would not last long in office is because of people like yourself who believe brute force is the only way.
Like I said. I have no problem with a reaction against Hizbullah. But PLEASE spare me the old excuse that Hizbullah is equivalent to the Lebanese government. You, I and every 3 year old kid know that is not true. Stop using it as a justification to bomb my airport and my infrastructure.

Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

Haifa was hit? Damn Swedes. Still trying to make pacific Hezbollah look bad.

Anonymous said...

joe remember how wonderful Arafat and the PLO made Lebanon?

Anonymous said...

joe your airport has been and is being used to support and supply the hizzies.

Joe said...

Vox: Can't trust those Scandinavians. Always causing mischief.

Joe said...

Anon: I hate the palestinians as much as the syrians, iranians, and hizbullah. that makes no sense, and does not mean that i cnnot be angry at israel using excessive and misplaced force. if you have a problem with hizbullah, attack them not the infrastructure. And you can't possibly believe that the reason the airport was hit is because of its strategic importance to Hizbullah. That is just silly. If every 7 year old on the street knows where Hizbullah headquarters are, I am sure the Mosad do as well. I can't believe that I am even dignifying taht silly comment.
Cato: I know about the letter of international law. but there is also an unwritten regional law that the State of Israel is very familiar with. Even the Israelis do not believe your notion that Hizbullah represents the Lebanese government. That may be the letter of the law, but the practical reality is far different.
Anyway, the point is that within a few months Syria was sent packing. Lahoud's days were numbered. This will all be undone because Iran, Syria and Hizbullah finally suckered Israel into a fight. Let's face it either they were smart, or the Israeli's were very stupid. this escalation plays into Iran/Syria/Hizbullah's hands. At best the Israeli's will und up awash (although they will lose in the long run). And the clear loser is the Lebanese people.

Anonymous said...

joe, once again, the hizzies are using the airport, that makes it target. BTW once the hizzies started hitting non-military targets (ie 99% of everything they've hit so far) in Israel, Israel is no longer bound by law, yet they haven't intentionally hit any protected targets.

Joe said...

Whatever!
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
This conversation is over.

mono said...

joe: you hate the palestinians, syrians, iranians? wtf is with you people *hating* an entire population no matter they have nothing to do with hamas, nedjad, hezb'allah, etc? collective punishment for the lose. hatemongering won't bring any solution.

mono said...

sorry but that comment by joe makes me furoius. hate, hah! do you know all of them? and if not, how do can you deny them hating you? it's people like you inflaming this whole shit of a situation.

Joe said...

Hey Mono:
Listen dude (or lady since I obviously have to be so PC and specific around you). Don't try to appear magnanimous by reverting to semantics. If you were stupid enough to think that I actually meant all individual palestinians, syrians, and iranians, then that is your problem. Just spare us the pretentious semi-intellectual overrighteous crap.

mono said...

and the conversation is NOT over, but i'll go for a sleep, and yes far away of bombs and missiles.

mono said...

tsk tsk

as i don't see you in a face-to-face discussion, i have to take what you write as basis for me commenting. if i misunderstood you, fair enough; but no need for flaming - better exlpain what you meant instead.

Anonymous said...

you ask "So who did it? "

Who did it?!!

How about the agents provocateurs of the Mossad?

Would you consider them a real possibility?

carmel, tel aviv said...

i agree with anon about that breath, only that there was no chance to ever get those soldiers back unless troops pursued them within the hour. i think it was the initial intent but than when yuou jump in like this, you can be dragged into deep so easily. we walked into this same trap 24 years ago. it seems that in the nation level non of us is good at learning from our past. oh, and the only reason we took a breath in the iraq case is because the U.S ordered us to. you dunno how hard that was for those generals who're trained to respond. and rumors say we had some special units hanging over sadam's head, just in case.... remember, hizbullah knows that about israel and wants this to happen. it's part of their tactics.

Jad said...

as a lebanese, u have to understand joe's anger, just as mine, we lebanese didnt get a chance to breath after the syrians drove out, and now this, imagine all the economical and political cycle coming suddenly to a halt... its really frustrating after 33 years, isnt it?
as he said, the Mussad knows exactly where those rascals are, and if they dont, call me, i'll light a camp fire on every building they're in, WE could drive them out if we had the strengh (money, guns, political foreign cover... etc ) but we dont, Israel does, so i hope ISP finishes the job quickly, and that the current operation is actually about taking out Hizbollah rather than another Tourism Season Killer syndrome that keeps repeating every year the same time.

Anonymous said...

>>>How about the agents provocateurs of the Mossad?

The Arab mind is addicted to conspiracies. It avoids having to deal with reality. Thus, behold their predicaments.

Anonymous said...

olmert will make sharon (mass murderer) look like a saint.

Anonymous said...

>>>olmert will make sharon (mass murderer) look like a saint.

I don't know about that, but it's not going to be pretty. Olmert feels he is being tested by his enemies, so he's going to show them exactly who they're f*cking with.

Anonymous said...

no one in israel wants to heart civilians in lebanon
the people in israel are wishing for peace.
wish you all well from israel...hold on and hope that better days will bring us peace

Anonymous said...

Tell Hizbulla to stop the shooting and return the soldiers.
That is all that needed.
You want to live in peace? Israelis too want to live in peace.
Why do Lebanees keep giving the Hizbulla power?
Why aren't they kick them out of your country?
Waht are you so afraid of?
If it is so dangerous to keep them around get rid of them- if they win the war and get rid of Israel you will have to be controled by them- they will be your rulers- do you really want it?
look at Iran, Iraq few years ago, Afganistan few years ago, Gza these days- it is not a happy ending- it is the worst ending you can think of.

steelmagnoliashia said...

Israel is action in violation of international law. Case after case there have been successful prisoner exchanges. That's all Lebanon wanted. Israel began kidnapping Lebanese, just swooping in and kidnapping people, to use illegally as bargaining chips for bodies of dead IOF soldiers. How can Isreal then justify this action when Hezbola does the same thing? In the courts of Equity in the United States justice system, they call this the "Clean Hands Doctrine." He who comes to the table for justice must come with clean hands.