Tuesday, July 18, 2006

Protests and Traitors

The human psyche never seizes to amaze me. After 6 days of following every update religiously, somehow all the news of shelling and counter-shelling, of the number of dead and wounded becomes a detail, a painful detail, but a detail. We cope with pain by skipping on the details and creating notions larger than the details which drive us towards achieving our goals.

Today I went to the rally in front of the White House to call for an end to war on Lebanon. However, it did not end to be a rally just for Lebanon; a lot of demonstrators were also calling for end of attacks on Gaza in the Palestinian territories.

Despite that the common denominator between Gaza and Lebanon for now is Israeli attacks, I believe that Lebanon is a different situation. Lumping the Lebanese dilemma right now within an Arabist context is not correct. But whom am I to decide what is correct?

A Lebanese woman was holding a banner that read, "Nasrallah shut up and listen to Seniora!" Many people passing by her gave her weird looks, until one person had the audacity to snatch the banner from her and rip it up! It's saddening, but it did happen.

I chatted with Lebanese friends on the side of the protest. We were talking about how many of those who support the disarmament of Hizbullah have been put in a difficult situation. If Hizbullah is criticized, then automatically it's assumed that you're supportive of Israeli aggression, which is not true. The death toll in 7 days has reached close to 250, most of whom are civilians. Who can excuse such a painful reality?

However, there is this question on our minds, the big elephant in the middle of the room: How were the Lebanese amongst themselves going to disarm Hizbullah. If we bring the subject now, we'll definitely appear as "traitors". Even if we endorse the government's position of calling for a ceasefire and for the reassertion of the state's sovereignty by sending the Army to the southern borders, we'll still be branded as weak.

More than anything, I'm just thinking about the next step. When the gunshots die, will the national dialogue table resume? I mean is there trust anymore amongst the political leaders of the country? What will happen?...It's our own (the Lebanese) question to answer.

"Nobody knows how many rebellions, besides political rebellions, ferment in the masses of life which people earth."

98 comments:

Stuart said...

There is a meeting in support of the Lebanese in Paris on Wednesday 19 July at Métro Invalides.

RASSEMBLEMENT MERCREDI 19 JUILLET A 18H30 DEVANT LE MINISTERE FRANCAIS DES AFFAIRES ETRANGERES Métro Invalides

Thanks.

Daniel van der Stoep said...

A poem for Lebanon,

God´s country

http://www.danielvanderstoep.nl/2006/07/my-poem-to-god-for-lebanon.html

Protest is the half, praying is the full

Solomon2 said...

Exactly who are the traitors, Doha? It's Nasrallah and his gang who are the business end of a foreign power. And this is what they may have in store for Lebanon if they keep receiving the support of the population and the government.

Anon said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anon said...

CNN is reporting that Israel has sent ground troops in. I think I will go pray now :*(

R said...

We have so many questions to answer, so so so many questions, most of which are elephants in the middle of the room that we have chosen to ignore from the very foundation of the Lebanese state. Unfortunately, every question we ignore comes back to bite us in the ass and causes a disaster. Yet we choose to ignore them...

nuggs said...

Doha,

I thought you were in Lebanon? You are in DC?

Mirvat said...

same thing happened here in new york doha. i'll write about it tomorrow. i'm too depressed to do so now.

poor_khalid said...

I can understand the Lebanese reaction to want to separate themselves from what's going on in Palestine and with other Arabs and Muslims around the world.

Sadly, your enemies do not make the distinction. They are fighting you all together as if you were one group: diplomatically, militarily, intellectually, blogophonically. What will you do?

It seems that surely, alomst imperceptibly, the world is splitting into two. Everyone is a part of it and it seems God is taking down the fence.

Ariya said...

Who cares what others think. Stand up for what you believe in and speak your peace about Hezbullah. When you live in fear for what you may say, you live in misery.

Lazarus said...

doha,

be strong.

have you heard from raja? is he fine?

kachumbali said...

Some important facts are being omitted here:

Hizballah has to give up its weapons asap. This was the main issue of the national dialogue, and it is now the centrepiece of Israeli demands for a cease-fire.

Hizballah attacked Israel repeatedly, so they fought back. I am well aware of the history of the two countries and Israels occupation of southern Lebanon until 2000, the shellings, the minefields, the prisoners having been disappeared. Nevertheless, Israel is fully right in defending itself against attacks. And speaking from a p.o.v. of international law, it is in the right in having started the current offensive.

The proportionality of its means is a different matter, however, and Israel has to be heavily criticised and pressured to stop destroying Lebanese infrastructure on this scale, and also later be compelled to help rebuild what it has wreaked.

But no one should forget that this conflict is an international conflict through the entanglement of Hizballah with Syria and Iran, and also with Hamas, and not to mention the ever-international character of Israel through its support in the West, above all in the US. The world will therefore also judge the events in the light of this international background, and here Hizballah and to a certain degree with that Lebanon is responsible for the outbreak of the CURRENT crisis...or war.

I know of the difficult internal situation in Lebanon, about the sectarian conflicts seeming impossible to solve as the National Dialogue (as the tip of the iceberg) has shown in recent months, but nevertheless there will be no long-term solution for either Lebanon or Israel without adressing these fundamental problems.

Israel is incredibly naive in thinking that it might push Hizballah out of Lebanon, or at least weaken it enough to render it impotent through its current offensive. A true solution can only spring from Lebanon itself.

Maybe this is too naive, maybe no Lebanese society truely exists which can face a foe in its midst, maybe this is but a prelude to another civil war. But last year, after Hariri was assassinated, a lot of Lebanese got together as Lebanese, regardless of their religion or community, and they managed to kick one occupier out after 30 years. Maybe this spirit will finally be reawakened to first face Hizballah, then the Israelis...

And maybe I am just way to naive in wishing this, but I still would like to think that this is possible.

fadibou said...

Nasrallah thinks he has proven to be tougher than Israel, He simply is not counting civilian casualties. He counts only Hizbulla losses.

blogagog said...

Hezbollah should make a vow never to attack Israel again. That way those evil zionist b*st*rds would be forced to live in peace next to Lebanon. Man I bet they'd hate that! Shut it down Nasrallah! Teach the jews a lesson in peace!

Mirvat said...

"I am well aware of the history of the two countries and Israels occupation of southern Lebanon until 2000, the shellings, the minefields, the prisoners having been disappeared."

kachumbali, and how do you get over that let alone the current disaster?

Los Angeles Observer said...

Doha,

Are you in DC, or in Lebanon?

Also, did you witness what you wrote? Why did you not get involved? I personally would have showed that bully a couple of moves...get it? GET INVOLVED! Otherwise, nothing changes. This is exactly why Lebanon is in the position it is, noone is willing to confront the bully.

stateroom said...

THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS IN LEBANON ARE HEZBOLLAH SUPPORTERS.

Most of them are Shi'ite Muslims, many of whom hold dual U.S. and Lebanese citizenship. Many are anchor babies born here to Muslims in the U.S. illegally. Some are illegal aliens who became citizens through rubber-stamping Citizenship and Immigration Services (and its INS predecessor) coupled with political pressure by spineless politicians.

Of the 25,000 American citizens and green-card holders in Lebanon, at least 7,000 are from Dearborn, Michigan, the heart of Islamic America, and especially Shia Islam America. These 7,000 are mostly Shi'ite Muslims who openly and strongly support Hezbollah. Ditto for many of the rest of the 25,000 that are there.
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2006/07/most_americans.html

Josiah said...

Hezbollah should make a vow never to attack Israel again. That way those evil zionist b*st*rds would be forced to live in peace next to Lebanon. Man I bet they'd hate that! Shut it down Nasrallah! Teach the jews a lesson in peace!

what about Israel's great relations with Jordan and Egypt? Those "evil zionists" live at peace with them, why not Lebanon?

stateroom said...

Honest Reporting:

● Israeli Arabs consistently state that they'd prefer to remain in Israel rather than join a future Palestinian state. A May 2001 survey found that just 30 percent of Israel's Arab population would agree to the Galilee Triangle being annexed to a future Palestinian state. By February 2004, according to the Haifa-based Arab Center for Applied Social Research, that figure had reached 90 percent preferring to remain in Israel.

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Distorting_Israeli_Arab_Reality.asp

Josiah said...

stateroom

does that count Israeli Druze as arabs?

stateroom said...

I can`t answer that one.

Josiah said...

i looked, it does.

i figured.

Josiah said...

oh and thanks for the URL...I've never seen that site before, but i like it

stateroom said...

Any one got any more details on this:
`Hizbullah preventing civilians from leaving villages in southern Lebanon`

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3278026,00.html

carine said...

stateroom -- oh, what a relief!!! they're only SHIA... not real americans but TERRORISTS who used underhanded terrorist methods to obtain citizenship. which, undoubtedly, they only wanted to start up their US-based terror cells of course!

no need for americans to lose any sleep over those 25,000+ of their countrymen in lebanon after all!

box said...

If Hizbullah is criticized, then automatically it's assumed that you're supportive of Israeli aggression, which is not true.
i believed this at first, but i have learned a lot in this past week. it did seem everyone was trying to pressure lebanese to think it was necessary to commit civil war on itself to destroy hezbollah. in talking with someone last night, i feel like i got to see a little bit inward to how confusing this must be.

carine said...

ps. just fyi -- bad news: the majority of lebanese-americans are christians.

does that mean you have to emphathize with them again??

and in any case: the 25,000+ to be evacuated include many american holidaymakers, students, and businesspeople trapped in this war.

stateroom said...

Oh probably something like this:

"Train bombers 'funded by British businessmen'"

SOME of the main fundraisers for the terror group suspected of masterminding the Bombay train bombings are operating from Britain, according to Indian intelligence officials. The officials accuse Britain of failing to act against a number of wealthy businessmen, who they claim are using bogus charities to funnel up to £8 million a year to Kashmiri militants groups, such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, which remains the main suspect for orchestrating the synchronised bombings that killed 182 people.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2273287,00.html

stateroom said...

Why worry be happy. Problem solved:

Ahmadinejad: A happy day for the region is near. The world is on the verge of great changes. The Iranian president also warned Israel that by its action in Lebanon it is playing with fire

July 18, 2006
Iran's parliament speaker warned no part of Israel is safe from Hizballah rockets. Sunday, July 16, Iranian leader Ali Khameini gave the Lebanese Shiite Lebanese terrorist group the ultimate guarantee when he said: Hizballah will never be disarmed.

Peaceman said...

We must protect Israelis and Lebanese people by defeating Hizbullah.
A peaceman from Lebanon.

stateroom said...

Because the matter of religious balance is a sensitive political issue, a national census has not been conducted since 1932, before the founding of the modern Lebanese state. Consequently there is an absence of accurate data on the relative percentages of the population of the major religions and groups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Lebanon

I believe that the Christian Lebanese %age has been reduced considerably through migration. And also through importing the Syrians, Iranians, Palestinians etc.
A claim that the christians are in the majority just doesn`t gel.

stateroom said...

Let`s let Debbie the author of the piece answer that:
ALSO PLEASE READ CAREFULLY--I SAID "MANY" OF THE 25,000, NOT "ALL."

Jad J said...

Stateroom,
I'm christian, and i tell u, we;re not a majority its a fact well known, and thats why they dont make a consensus, so that all religions dont know their actual weight in the country.

Sigh!!!! when will Lebanese be talking to each others without: "Chou dinak?" (whats ure religion?)

Josiah said...

it doesn't matter if they're christians or muslims: the issue is their support for hizb.

although i'm not sure how accurate the article is in the first place.

Is it true though that the IDF has agreed to help (not sure what that means) with the american evacuation? I think I read something like that today...trying to find it agian...

stateroom said...

josiah: Help could be in the form of providing cover in the event of an attack or something.

Came across this but am not sure as to its veracity:
IDF: 40-50% of Hizbullah's military capability destroyed
http://www.jpost.com/

Josiah said...

if its true, Kol haKavod L'Tzahal!

if it's not, hopefully will be soon....

although you'd think with so much time in Lebanon they'd have something like that to show for it...I think i believe it, but ill check

fgaled said...

I hope your people will suffer no more, and Lebanon will return being the purl of the middle east. But no one will do this difficult job for you.
You think your situation is bad, so stand up and take your destiny into your own hands! Blaming somebody else (even if it is the arch villain of the galaxy - Israel) won't help you much. Lebanese recent history shows that apart from fighting amongst your selves and letting outside interests be played out through you and on your expanse, you did not do much to alter the state of things. Yasser Arafat made Lebanon his outpost for his attacks on Israel, making Lebanon suffer like it never suffered before and eventually causing Israel to invade Lebanon and drive him out (back then in 82 you've greeted Israeli soldiers with flowers and rice). But not even then did you take your destiny into your own hands. You've allowed Irani Hizbulah to infiltrate your country and shape your future. You've remained passive when the Syrians came and did nothing when they pulled out. You waited while Hizbulah built its power and provoked Israel. You knew the retaliation would come but chose to ignore it. Now when Iran has made its move through Hizbulah to shift public attention away from its nuclear weapon development you suffer yet again.
What did you think, Hisbulah would snatch a couple of soldiers every 6 month, kill several others and shell Israeli cities run and hide behind civilian population, and Israel will do nothing? If you don’t care about your own destiny, why should Israel go out of its way to avoid hurting civilian population if you allow terrorists to hide within your cities? Israel is not your enemy. It would have never revert to military action had it not been attacked first. Israel has not made Lebanon its back yard for growing dope like Syria has, did not flood you with rockets and weapons and place them in your cities amongst civilian population lake Iran has.

Hope to hear your opinion on the matter, and moreover hope for a peaceful resolution.

Josiah said...

fgaled

in Lebanon's defense, their government has lacked the strngth to do much of anyhting about hizb'allah

Unlike King Abdullah of Jordan (may he rest in peace) who declared war on the PLO and thus saved his country from this exact problem

stateroom said...

Talking of Syria looks like they too like fireworks:

Jul. 19, 2006 8:39 | Updated Jul. 19, 2006 9:01
Baghdad bombings leave five dead, 18 wounded
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150886041444&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Makes me wonder if it`s a retaliation of sorts by the Hizb for:
Syrian Human Rights Committee estimates it to be much higher, at somewhere between 30,000 to 40,000 civilians dead or missing.
http://www.2la.org/lebanon/ee/terrorsy.htm

blogagog said...

what about Israel's great relations with Jordan and Egypt? Those "evil zionists" live at peace with them, why not Lebanon?

That was my point :) I was just putting it in the language terrorists understand.

Psychopath said...

Written by a 15 yr old(TAKE UR TIME TO READ THIS)

Everytime anyone from the Islamic World raises a voice against the west or israel, why is it that, that person becomes our National Hero or an Islamic leader? Soon if we dont have a voice in this war, these opposing parties will grow, with no one to tell them to side by these are wrong.
Whats going to happen now is...Since Nasrallah has apparently become the face of ISlam(like how Bin Laden was at one time) and to support Islam and the Gulf COuntries, Iran will plunge in to help Lebanon. This may not benefit us because the US will soon side Israel(not htt they dont, but they will literally in war)and even though the Gulf with all its money splendour and power will be scared to match up to the US( the supposed world power). Thus leaving us no option instead to turn our heads down in shame...if this can be stopped now, there wud be nothing better than it.

Yael said...

This is a very complex situation. Most people here including my self don't see Lebanon as "the enemy". only the armed militias mainly the Hizballah. i hope the fire on both sides will end soon and we can build a future together.

march14yuppi said...

Stateroom,
About your link,
> Any one got any more details on this:
> IDF: Hizbullah preventing civilians from leaving villages in southern Lebanon

Of course the IDF are neutral in this conflic, they gain nothing by blaming the civilians who die under their bombs on hizbollah. Yea sure ....

Luckily one does not even need to listen to Hizballah's side of the story to confirm, deby or figure out a better explanation for why are people staying in the suoth.

It is enough to listen to the IDF STATEMENTS ON THE FIRST DAY.

They themselves said they bombed the bridges leading out of the south to prevent Hizbollah from "smuggling" the prisonner out. And to cut arm supplies coming in.

How in hell do you expect thousands of families to evacuate the Hizballah zone if the roads and bridges were cut specifically to disallow Hizbllah from smuggling anyone out or in!

Some of the people who tried to escape were killed by raids WHILE THEY WERE STUCK next to the destroyed bridges trying to find a way to cross.

The IDF knows you forget facts quickly so it keeps supplying you with new ones.
You guys said you bombed the bridges and roads! The images of civilians dying on the bridges and bombed on blocked roads don't need further explaining, you yuorself explained the whole story on day ONE.

stateroom said...

I`m kinda curious on this `civilian` factor. The Hizb are not members of the regular Lebanese Army.
So wouldn`t the death of any one of them be considered `civilian`?

sub Rosa said...

I Truly hope you dont have another civil war. However, it seems the modorate forces have to unite and push off HA.
This war will end in a few days, Lebanon will be rebuilt and so will HA. As long as HA is so strong, Lebanon wont be able to secure its future, because its just a matter of time before they strike Israel again and vice versa.
My fear is, that the modorate elements in Lebanon will continue to leave the country, and make a Shiite Islamic country more than ever.

stateroom said...

IDF: Hizbullah preventing civilians from leaving villages in southern Lebanon






The IDF has found that Hizbullah is preventing civilians from leaving villages in southern Lebanon. Roadblocks have been set up outside some of the villages to prevent residents from leaving, while in other villages Hizbullah is preventing UN representatives from entering, who are trying to help residents leave. In two villages, exchanges of fire between residents and Hizbullah have broken out. (Hanan Greenberg)
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3278026,00.html

Lady D. said...

D for dialogue

Suha said...

Doha,
I thought you would be interested in the following links. Pics of demonstrations
in Berlin and DC.

Moon River said...

Doha,
be strong!
what your country is going through is very hard, and true, the more it goes the more there is innocent citizens whom are being heart and killed, this is devastating
and this should stop, but how can it stop when there are inside of Lebanon terrorists, who in a cynical way are using civilians and hides in their houses- risking them while bombarding Israel?
Dan Rather, and American journalist, said yesterday, that he sees no solution to this aggression by the terrorists, they only change names and faces, once it was PLO, now it is hamas, Hezbollah, El-Kaida, etc
no matter how much Israel will hit them, once she will withdrawn back to her international border, the terrorists will gather forces again and will hit back, and there this never ending story will continue, while Lebanon in the middle, hopeless, with answer to it all.
maybe, just maybe we will all pay in the end the price of aggression, we all know, that if things go very wrong and very bed, Nuclear weapon would be the un wanted answer, but obligatory
I mean Iran is making it, not just for It's leaders ego, and we all know how cruel and full of hate Iran is not only towards Israel but towords the western world.
so, the clock is ticking against the civilized world
and there is doubt, that if things will turn to a catastrophe -the history of men kind, should we stay upon this planet, the history of men kind will show, who started the horror

Ilan said...

I have just posted the ...well... numbers of the Israeli side on my blog. It saddens me i couldn't find the official "numbers" of the other side.
I really hope it will be over soon, and I send my condolences to the Lebanese people.

Ilan from Israel.

Suha said...

OK, here goes again:
Pics of demonstrations in Berlin and DC.

Doha said...

Thanks, suha, for the pics.

Peter said...

This is no time for Lebanese to point fingers at each. Regardless of you how feel about Hizbollah, Israel has launched its barbaric war on the Lebanese people, not Hizbollah. Are you going to let Israel take advantage of your internal divisions, a.ka. France 1940? Or are you going to stand together, unite and demand the world stop Israel's aggression?

Pasdutout said...

A question: If, After the present madness is over, Israel were to offer Lebanon assistance in reconstruction: will Lebanon accept?

Should Lebanon Accept?

Tamar said...

Dear Lebanese,

First, Doha, I was very very sad to read about civilians being killed or wounded, especially women and children.

Second, I was very moved to read the sincere wishes for peace in Lebanon - free and flourishing.

From a civilian to civilians I wish you the same things I wish my own country, Israel - A life of peace, dignity, freedom and happyness, with no cruel deaths to innocent people.

May both sides know no grief!

Tamar, Jerusalem

Jad J said...

if it comes from NGOs and Israeli citizens, I as lebanese would agree, but not from the government !

AbdulKarim said...

Duha

The exact thing happened here in London yesterday. I went to what was supposed to be a candlelit vigil to save Lebanon and what I found there was much more Palistinian flags than Lebanese. I immediately felt that it was a mistake for me to attend the event, however I decided to stay for hope that maybe in the next hour the Lebanese flags would gain momentum. This is what happened next. They started chanting loudly infront of the parliament "Save Lebanon, save Palestine". Then "Ya Allah ya Allah ihmi lana nasrallah". I immediately withdrew to a safe distance away from them as not to be associated with them. Then the worse was yet to come. " Ya nasrallah ya habib 2ouksof haifa wou tal abib!!!!" Shit, was it a dmostration for peace after all!!!! Then i overheard some people who were withdrwing talking on their mobiles telling those who haven't arrived yet not to come beause "its not our demostration". With thier Lebanese flags they left Parliament square". I sat far away now, and was also making a phone call to my friends telling them not come. I was also overheard by a Lebanese girl sitting there as well. She had the same view as me. This was not a demonstration for Lebanon. It was a demonstration for Palestine and Nasrallah. What a drag!

Doha said...

At least, Abdulkarim, there were no "Allah Yi7mee Nasrallah" slogans here!

sub Rosa said...

You know what really pisses me off Doha and others? That you lleft Lebanon! You, the moderate, modern Bourgeoisie are spreading all over the world, leaving Lebanon with the rubbish. Sadly, it's happening in Israel too, and all I have to say to the "leavers" (I'm avoiding the use of another word), is how dare you complain about the situation, when by your departure it made things worse? DON'T PREACH US, COME BACK HOME AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE! (This goes for Lebanese and Israelis alike)

Doha said...

Peter, I of course went to the rally to call for an end to Israeli aggression on Lebanon, but I don't want to extol the virtues of Nasrallah! He also had a hand in starting all this.

lioriya said...

well, i believe you realize by now that most israelis do have the greatest sympathy towards the lebanese people, we do not like to see you suffer and we ache your losses deeply.
the situation with the palestinians is different yet in both cases it's the civilians who suffers the consequenses the most.

i completly fail to understand how the hizbullah allows lebanon to suffer this much, for israel will diffend itself againt its terror.

the lebanon i have in my mind is a beautiful country full of culture arts and friendly people and it deserves to stand on it's own and show the world it's uniqueness!
there's a huge hope in my heart that a day will come when we will have a prosperous peace even though the times look black right now.
till then i wish for your people safety, well being and the hope and faith of a brighter era.

Peter said...

Doha,

You don't have to extol the virtues of Nasrallah! I'm just saying, don't point the finger at him, not until Israel's aggression ends. When the aggression ends, there will be plenty of time to finger-point. Keep the focus on Israel.

I mean, this may seem outrageous to you, but Hezbollah could have reasons to point the finger at the March 14 Forces. For example, look at the way Israel has invoked Resolution 1559 in support of its aggression. Doesn't that prove Nasrallah may have had a point:

Without accusing anyone of treason or jumping to hasty conclusions, I am simply saying Resolution 1559 serves the Israeli policies in inciting civil war and creating political chaos and turbulence," Nasrallah said. "We should be careful not to take positions that would harm Lebanon or push it again into disarray and instability," he said.

I'm not saying that Nasrallah is right....only that such debates are what is not needed now. What's needed is creative colloboration on how to get the world to stop Israel's aggression. For example,

(1) Explaining to the American public that this is a war on Lebanon, not on Hizbollah. The Israel lobby has mastered the art of public relations ("hasbara"); you need to do no less.

(2) Writing letters and calling the American media. Again, the Israel lobby has mastered this art, and Lebanon's supporters must do the same.

(3) Working with the Arab public to pressure Arab leaders to end their shameful support of Just Reward. There are plenty of Arab bloggers you can work with in this regard.

(4) Ditto for the European public. Again, there are plenty of European bloggers you can work with.

There are just some ideas I have. Let's brainstorm on what we can do.

Peter said...

(5) Work with Israeli peace groups. Are they planning up any upcoming demonstrations against the war in Lebanon? Why not have speakers from Lebanon address the really?

Here are some Israeli peace groups:
http://www.gush-shalom.org/
http://www.alternativenews.org/
http://www.yeshgvul.org/index_e.asp

The point is...the Lebanese blogosphere doesn't needs to wage a jihad on behalf of Lebanon. It just needs to show the same level of creativity in mobilizing the world to end Israel's aggression that it did in supporting the March 14 movement.

Shmulik said...

Peter
Let me tell you as an Israeli that if you think for one second that Israel will end it's aggression while the Hizbalah is allowed to attack inside israel as it pleases you are dreaming.
The only goverments in the world that support that are Iran, Syria, Sudan and Yemen. As the saying goes "tell me who are your friends and i'll tell you who you are."

Shay said...

ithout accusing anyone of treason or jumping to hasty conclusions, I am simply saying Resolution 1559 serves the Israeli policies in inciting civil war and creating political chaos and turbulence," Nasrallah said.

I doubt Nasrallah's rhetoric. It is contradictory to Israel's actual interest, and works upon your fears more than anything else; Israel's interest is in a strong, stable, secular, moderate, economically prosperous, and peacful Lebanon.
One that could help leverage the regional political arena to moderation and nonviolence rather than the Irani-influenced Jihad and hate.

behind-the-scenes said...

god peter, u really are a Hiz supporter and what makes it all the more sickening is that you're probably not even muslim and maybe not even lebanese. All u want is to point the blame away from Hiz at all costs. All u want is for everyone to take their focus away from Hiz and point the finger at Israel. This helps you on 2 fronts. On the one hand, it can keep Hiz going and going like the energiser bunny and on the other hand your rabid and dangerous israel-hatred is furthered as well.

Nothing would piss you off more than for masses of Lebanese to speak out clearly and sharply against Hiz, to denounce Hiz to talk in unison against Hiz's ability to start a war, for Hiz to be incapacitated and for peace to actually reign between Lebanon and that accursed country Israel. You'd rather have Lebanon destroyed with Hiz active than have Lebanon flourish with Hiz paralysed. You'd rather have Lebanon wounded and screwed for eternity while fighting Israel than have a prosperous Lebanon doing nothing against Israel.

Peter said...

It's even worse than that, Behind-the-scenes:

I'm an American Jew.

Peter said...

Another Israeli peace group, Coalition of Women for Peace:

http://coalitionofwomen.org/home/english

Shmulik said...

Peter I am not a racist. The fact that you are a jew doesn't make me agree with you more.
You and Noan Chomsky and I am sure there are others, are more than invited to go to Lebanon and fight for Nasaralah. I can promiss you a jewish burial if you do that.

For the love of Lebanon said...

for all the israelis posting their comments here, and for all the lebanese who think now is the time to condemn hizbulla's "adventurous" actions, check this out www.fromisraeltolebanon.org then tell me if u think israel really needed an excuse to destroy our dear country.
what is more ironic, is that Israelis claim they want the lebanese army to spread all over lebanese territories, then why the hell r they bombing our army soldiers, while they're sleeping, for what crime?!?!
so lebanese, please wake up, our sole enemy is and will always be Israel!!

For the love of Lebanon said...

thank u peter, finally somebody with brains!!
and by the way, i'm a lebanese christian.

Ziad_M said...

Shay,

I doubt Nasrallah's rhetoric. It is contradictory to Israel's actual interest, and works upon your fears more than anything else; Israel's interest is in a strong, stable, secular, moderate, economically prosperous, and peacful Lebanon.

One could easily state the opposite and say that Israel's intentions are to destabilise Lebanon in order to justify further military advances in the country.

What is happening today makes it hard to refute this, and also contributes to the deteriorating Israeli sentiment in the arab world.

I, for one, hope you are right. But sometimes it is hard to see your point of view through the smoke and fire.

John Davies said...

OK the Lebanese Army isn't strong enough to take on Hezbollah so the IDF does the heavy lifting. But why doesn't Lebanon provide army personnel as advisors? They could help the IDF determine targets and also the symbolic significance would be great.

Instead they sit on the sidelines while the trash is being taken out for them.

For the love of Lebanon said...

well, john davies,
i donno how knowledgeable u r about the lebanese society and sectarianism. but if the army gets involved in this, then civil war is unavoidable. so thank u for the suicide advice!
plus, how can u expect the army (who r humans too) to turn its back on its fellow citizens, to support the country that caused so much pain to lebanon and still does, by destroying it and trying to weaken it by dividing its people against each other

Anon said...

I dont know what was at www.fromisraeltolebanon.org but it must have been bad because the account has been suspended.

Ronen said...

Peter - as a jew you can come to Lebanon/Syria/Iran/Iraq/afganistan and declare about it in the middle of the market - you will soon find out what Muslims have been doing to jews throught the centuries (pardon my English).

The fact that you are a Jew doesn't contribute anything to the debate - Jews has always sufferes from self-haters such as you, Such as Zimmerman, Noam adolf homsky and the rest of the gang

Shay said...

Ziad - My only proof can be the relative peace from our side for the past 6 years.

Unlike a lot of other Arab people, we actually know the Lebanese a bit better. We were there for quite a while, afterall. We used to watch METV back in the day, before we had any decent television of our own. In the days before fatahland, some Israelis even ventured up north for vacation in what was considered 'the las vegas of the ME'. We had allies in Lebanon. We still do. Friends, even.
Lebanese people have a face. It's not just pure demonization (though Nassralla's isn't a very popular face as you might imagine)

I can see your POV, and admittedly, right now what I say probably seems counterintuitive. However, when you think about it rationally, what interest have we in further military advances? We left Lebanon, after all. Despite what Nasrallah would have you believe, we didn't have to go. We chose to leave. We also chose to ignore several brutal and blatant violations of our border from HizbAllah during these past few years, in a hope that a stable Lebanon will eventually disband the resistance and take over border control. I even honestly believe that in due time, Lebanese government would have done so. But it is still traumatized from the assasination of it's leader, and too soon after the Syrians left, still too weak to act against HizbAllah. I can see that, and so can we all, but we'll be damned if we let some of you think for a minute longer that HizbAllah can keep taking a toll from Israel without retaliation. I'm sorry this is the way it had to go, but Lebanon really left us with no choice. I'm particularly sorry for the civillian loss of life and property. Not to mention the economy. But I'm also sorry for the same loss on our side.

Hopfully, when the dust settles, HizbAllah will be weaker, rather than stronger, and we'll be able to bury our dead and our conflict behind us, in a path we should all hope will lead to normalization between our governments and people, a solution to the Palestinian refugee problem and prisoners, and maybe even (with Syria's damned grace) Sheba'a Farms.

God have mercy on us all otherwise.

For the love of Lebanon said...

well if www.fromisraeltolebanon.com is blocked and suspended by ur government censorship, this should tell u sth about what kind of fake democracy u claim to have in israel, they blocked it because they don't want their people to see the atrocities they r committing in lebanon and to lebanese innocents, because maybe then u will stand up and say NO to this unexcused violence!!

Shay said...

Works fine here, actually. But I'm on a small ISP. No one in Israel has the power to block sites for the whole line, but that site probably blocked Israeli IP ranges for fear of DDOS attacks or something.

Some horrible pictures though. We don't post the same sort of images, because to us it seems disrespectful to the dead, not because we don't have the equivalent horror happening here.

For the love of Lebanon said...

oh really?!?! u have the same horror going on?!? well if this is true, i'll be the first one to watch it on the news, since i live in the USA and the only thing they show on TV here is ur side of the story and the damages in israel! plus isareilis are the masters of war propaganda, if this was happening on ur soil believe me, the whole world would have seen it!!

fgaled said...

Dear For the love of Lebanon

It seams to me you are trying to shift the blame from Hizbullah and the Lebanies to someone else, Israel being the preferable target. You are trying very hard to forget that Hizbulla has provoked the entire incident.

Peter said...

Thanks for the advice, Ronen and Shmuel. Actually, it's precisely because I don't want to see Lebanon turn into another Iran, Afhganistan, Iraq, or Saudi Arabia that I am working to stop Israel's aggression.

To all Lebanese Bloggers, I hope you realize my comment about pointing the finger at March 14 and Resolution 1559 was meant in a tongue-in-cheek way. However, it does a raise a key point that has been lost in the media coverage. The purpose of Resolution 1559 was to bring security to Lebanon. Never in their right minds did the March 14 movement ever imagine that Israel (which is in violation of too many Security Council resolutions?) would invoke Resolution 1559 as a pretext for Israel's aggression on Lebanon. A UN resolution intended to provide Lebanon with stability has become a legal weapon to justify bombing Lebanon back to the Stone Age.

This is a point that needs to be made.

1earth said...

Lebanese aggression just killed 3 Israeli-Arabs in Nazerath, including 2 children.

Keep rejoicing Arabs, this time it really looks like your illegal wars and terror attacks will drive the Jews into the sea. /sarcasm

Pangloss said...

Imagine if you will that a friend of a friend comes to visit your country and your town, and because of your friendship you agree to let him stay at your house. Imagine that one day you come home to find that your visitor has gone to visit the neighbor's house and killed someone there. It turns out that your visitor is a murderous madman.

Are you responsible for what your visitor has done? What do you do? If the visitor is too scary for you to kill or capture yourself, then what do you do? What are the limits of hospitality? And which is more important, GOOD or FRIENDSHIP?

That is the situation that Lebanon is in. She has a visitor from Iran named Hizballah who has been murdering the neighbors. Now the neighbors are going through Lebanon's house to look for the murderer, who is hidden somewhere in the house and has hidden weapons under the baby's crib, behind the toilet, and under every mattress. It's time for Lebanon to take responsibility for the actions of their guest and STOP HIZBALLAH BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

Achillea said...

You've remained passive when the Syrians came and did nothing when they pulled out.

While I largely agree with the rest of your points, exception must be taken to this one. The Cedar Revolution was far from 'nothing.'

Faiza said...

Je m'adresse à tous les traîtres qui aujourd'hui osent insulter LE HEZBOLLAH grâce a qui aujourd'hui il existe encore un LIBAN ! C'est à cause des gens comme vous que l'on se fera toujours massacrer comme des chiens et je trouve que ce que le HEZBOLLAH fait est MAGNIFIQUE car eux au moins on le cran et le courage de Défendre et protéger leur patrie, leur cause. Ce ne sont pas des vendus !! L'on ne voit pas ces genres d'injustice ailleurs dans le monde parce qu’ils ont compris qu'une patrie C'est une voix, un peuple, une cause ! UN ET INDIVISIBLE !et que notre linge sale on le lave chez nous. Il n'y a que chez les arabes que l'on trouve cela parce que nos dirigeants et de notre peuple sont des vendus ... Un pays en flamme, des gens massacrer et vous trouvez encore le moyen de vous plaindre ? De vous plaindre au lieu de vous unir ?? Vous n'avez donc pas honte ? Honte d'insulter les seules personnes qui se battent aujourd'hui pour LE LIBAN ? Vous n'avez donc pas honte de trouver le temps de blâmer tandis que Des dizaines de personne meurent tous les jours sous les missiles dédicacés des israéliens? N'avez-vous pas comprit que L'UNION FAIT LA FORCE ? Et qu'ensuite vous réglerez vos problèmes internes ... L'histoire ne vous a donc rien n’apprit ? Nous sommes considéré comme de la viande, des animaux... Massacrer parce que nos vies ne valent pas grande chose pour eux... Vous n'avez donc pas compris que C'est tout le LIBAN qui est concerné puisque c’est tout le LIBAN qui est bombardé ! C’est une mascarade parce que pour exterminer le HEZBOLLAH il faudrait aller bien au delà des frontières du LIBAN! Ce n’est pas une organisation c’est un COMBAT ! LE COMBAT DE TOUTE UNE VIE ! VOUS ETIEZ VENDU HIER ! VOUS ETES ENCORE VENDU AUJOURD'HUI ET VOUS RESTEREZ VENDU À JAMAIS ! VOUS APPARTENEZ AU DIABLE !
Hitler disait qu'il exterminait les juifs parce que c'était un peuple expansif et arriviste. A l'époque nous n'avions pas compris et nous avions pitié et nous étions révolté de la même manière que nous sommes révolté aujourd'hui lorsque nous tirons nos enfant écrabouillés de sous les décombres. A notre tour nous sommes exterminé et vous trouvez le temps de vous plaindre et de blâmer au lieu de vous lever et de devenir UN pour en sortir. Comme un troupeau de bête vous êtes la viande d'israel.
VIVE LE HEZBOLLAH ! CES VRAI HOMMES QUI NON PAS PEUR D'ASSUMER LEUR CAUSE ! VIVE HASSAN NASSRALLAH !! CE VRAI PATRIOTE !! ET VIVE LE LIBAN MARTYRISER !! ET HONTE A TOUS LES TRAITRES !!!
Quand au juifs dieu s'en est déjà chargé par le passé il s'en chargera à nouveau.
Peuple maudit depuis la nuit des temps, appuyé et soutenu par les puissances mondiales. Et vous ?!! Vous qui vous, vous plaignez qui vous regarde ? Qui vous soutien ? Qui vous console et vous comprend ?
Saviez vous que chaque bombes qui tombent au Liban est dédicacée par la main d'un enfant israélien? La prochaine qui tombera nous sera dédier de la main de David ...ou de Moshé… Peut être qui sait... ?
En attendant ils restent unis et se jouent de nous et prennent plaisir à nous massacrer, à massacrer nos enfants, nos familles et détruire notre pays, nos maisons. Parce que nos enfants qui meurent non pas de mères pour les pleurer ? Parce que nos parents qui meurent non pas d’enfants pour les pleurer ?
Si je me suis trompé d’histoire dites le moi ! BONNE CONTINUATION !

Mon cœur se déchire dans mes prières vers ceux qui nous ont quitté … Vers nos martyrs.
Paix a leur âmes.

Liad said...

This attitude mentioned, of being accused as a traitor for trying to point out the need for a solution, the elephant in the room, is very much like the one you hear from israelis when questioning the need for this disproportionate, overwhelmingly destructive, non discriminatory force.

From Israeli in NY

Faiza said...

Je suis la premiere a crier haut et fort que les peuples n'on rien fait dans ces guerres. Mais lorsque j'entend à la télé des israeliens interviewer parmis le peuple dire "Je suis pour a 100% de continuer cette guerre et les exterminer" ou une autre dire "Ils faut tous les massacrer, C'est des animaux et une sale race..." ... Je n'ai plus tres envie de jouer la diplomatie ... Merci.

Faiza said...

Tout ca n'est qu'excuses!
Avec ou sans le HEZBOLLAH ils nous auraient attaqué ... Comme ils l'on fait par le passé.Et il y aurait eu un autre motif, une autre excuse, quelqu'un ou quelque chose d'autre à exterminer ou à détruire ...
Vous n'avez donc rien comprit ? Y a qu'a juste regarder les cibles.C'est d'une destruction dont il s'agit...On les voyait venir depuis plusieurs mois deja.

Shmulik said...

Liad you are an Israeli so i guess you know about the IDF. You say "disproportionate, overwhelmingly destructive, non discriminatory force"
please explain what weapons do we have that are discriminatory and non-destructive??
Please don't tell me some fairy tale about commandos because I am sure that if we knew where nasaralah/hostages were we would take care of it.

Faiza said...

i couldn't help overreading your comments. liad;you sure have the tipical guilty respons. correct me if i am wrong but once mercy has speard you and you people; but i guess today; weapons given to you allow you to believe that you are stronger and superior but you very well know that it is all a big fat lie that would come and remind you that one day. too bad i could share a couple pictures with you but i guess you went trough that also because it seems that it became part of your education.the picture i am talking about shows on the right israel toddler drawing on the missiles before going to be drop on lebaneses;qnd the left one shows a dead lebanese toddler laying in the rubbles. you see; you were raised inconsciously to believe that you are superior and better than others. the same way hitler behaved with the jewish. it is hard to talk about hitler today when we have a whole race of him; but will come a day when some israeli will realise that and the us will not be qable to help you against your own self.now instead of having your mad israeli atitude after that ; i would like to tell you to think about it for a second even if it hurts. anyway; you cannot drop a bomb on me because i am in new york like you.i even rather die in lebanon today than to be your neibourg or a bit like you. by the way; you are not destroying hewbollah but your own self in a long term just like hitler.

Shay said...

Not to sound bloatful, but this really isn't as disproportionate or as devastating as Israel can get. Either today or yesterday (all these days are a blur) was the first time Israel used the Menatez MLRS unit. Our airforce is at about ~20% capacity. We have a whole spectrum of devastation at our disposal.
Not that I think anyone should be thanking us for holding back or anything, but honestly, why is it surprising anyone that we assault disproportionatley? We are trying to win, you know. Preferably sooner rather than later, while still trying to keep civilian casualties to a minimum.
Again, not expecting any thanks here, but our counterparts in the Arab world would have, and historically did, things far more devastating with no regards to civilian losses.

Shmulik said...

Faiza
If you compare us to Hitler please explain why in the next sortie we don't use fuel air explosives and kill hundreds of thousnds in lebanon?
Who would stop us?
when you compare us to the nazis you only show that you eighter don't know us, the nazis or both.

Suha said...

1earth said:

Lebanese aggression just killed 3 Israeli-Arabs in Nazerath, including 2 children.

Keep rejoicing Arabs, this time it really looks like your illegal wars and terror attacks will drive the Jews into the sea.


If you haven't noticed, no Lebanese on this forum is rejoicing over civilian casualties in Israel. It is only Israelis who are justifying their own.

fgaled said...

Dear Faiza,

I guess you have your history mixed up a bit, you are citing typical Arab propaganda.

once mercy has speared you and you people…

Whose mercy? Hitlers? His allies (amongst which many were leaders in the Arab world)

The mercy of 5 Arab countries (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iran) who attacked a small Jewish nation in 48? And later on in 63 and 73 raged war with brand new Soviet weapons? Not to mention the numerous terrorist groups they sponsored and harbored through the years.

Throughout the Middle East dark regimes oppress their own people and made war on their brothers in blood and faith. And who's to blame? The dictators? Fundamentalism? Nooooo! Somehow they always end up blaming Israel.

Iran and Iraq slaughtered one another for no reason for years, Saddam murdered thousands of his own people. Iran which used to be one of the most liberal countries of the region has fallen under a dark fundamental regime in which women are stoned to death for alleged infidelity. The bright Iranian genius is exploited to produce nuclear weapons. Egypt has been at war with Sudan. In Syria the small Alawi minority has devastated the country and shattered its economy. Instead of feeding and educating its people, money was pored into Hizbullah and arms. Lebanon, the purl of the Middle East has been plagued by civil wars and used as terrorist and drug barons playground for decades. The riches of the black gold are spread among the privileged few while masses remain poor and illiterate.

Instead of raging wars, the natural riches of the region could have been used to bring prosperity and enlightment. But the local dictators understand that prosperity means democracy and democracy is the end of their regimes. Thus they choose to spread war and instability, and blame Israel for all the evils.

The amazing thing is that in spite of the obvious the local people end up believing this silly propaganda.

Any other region given the natural resources this region has would have been a leading world power long time ago, with free education, democracy, advanced technology, etc. But here, opression, bigotry, poverty and misery.

All because of Israel? – I don't think so. Someone else might, but it won't do him any good.

Ilan said...

More than anything, I'm just thinking about the next step. When the gunshots die, will the national dialogue table resume?

Doha - I just posted IDF's plan for "Enf of Crisis"".
Unfortunately, the solution doesn't seems to be close.


Ilan

Faiza said...

un,fortunatly for you, i know my history very well. but most of all i know how to recognize that we the us have a lot to do in the past wars in the mideast. it is not just about dictator ship and the blabla you where tought. Honestly, you really believe all that stuff you are talking about. who was saddam weapons supplier and best freinds?

Shmulik said...

Faiza
You show your bias very well. Sadam was suppplied by the US, france, germany (a little) and the USSR. Are you so angry with France? I thought not. Were you angry more at Sadam or at Bush? I can bet it's bush. I guess you know Sadam has used mustard gas on the kurds. I don't recall a single arab goverment or organization that did anything (including talking) against it.
BTW you didn't answer my last post to you. Care to try?