Monday, July 17, 2006

Nothing But Words...

Today was a difficult day. On the metro heading to work this morning, I fought with myself: to read the Washington Post or not to read it. I did and I got even more depressed. There is nothing more disheartening than a picture of destruction or suffering frozen in history...more striking than on TV.

More disheartening was an 80-year old Beiruti saying to the Post that Lebanon is doomed never to be. If these are the words of wisdom, then what do I have left?

What do I have left? I was born during the civil war, never saw all of Lebanon until I was 13, and when I did, I fell in love with it. I understood why my father always brought us back despite the destruction. I fought my parents to do my undergraduate studies at the American University of Beirut when I was 18. I wanted to be there, to create roots, my own roots in that vibrant place. And I did.

As I watched today morning on TV Lebanese Red Cross medics putting injured civilians on stretchers after the Beirut Port was shelled, I thought to myself, "What are you doing here?" I should be there, where I used to serve as a Lebanese Red Cross first-aider. I knew that those medics at the Port were the ones who manned the Spears Headquarters...that's where I used to be a volunteer. And now I'm here, going to work like so many are, on the metro, then the escalators, then up the elevator, then the cubicle...

I'm here, facing a computer, trying to do what needs to be done, but never enough.

Our generation had so much hope for Lebanon. Last year there was so much hope for Lebanon, so much hope. Hope that we can BE. That Lebanon can BE, once and for all. But the prospects are bleak. What next? After the attacks are over, what's going to happen? The divisions are growing deeper and deeper.

Hizbullah's forces might be decimated, but never underestimate the effects of all the violence on the people. All those "mended" psyches from the civil war have been hurt once more and this time trust is gone and perhaps the damage will be difficult to undo.

I have nothing except words. Nothing but words...

Update: A Lebanese Army barracks in Jumhour was shelled. And today evening a whole family died under the rubble, 13, among them 9 children in Aitroun. What's the fault of these children? They were probably scared and hiding.

Addendum: Check out Lebanese fellow blogger's post on the 8-member Lebanese Canadian family killed yesterday by Israeli fire.

Update 2: Jbeil (Byblos) was targeted at dawn. Two trucks were destroyed. No information on number of casualties.

"Nobody knows how many rebellions, besides political rebellions, ferment in the masses of life which people earth."


Ron said...

Take heart Doha,

After all, it is through words that we see into the hearts of others – the good, the bad, the confused and hurt, and... that of those who are filled with evil and deceit.

Lebanon IS. It will BE. It has hope – because of its good people, and people of nations everywhere that know they exist and deserve love and protection. That will never be lost - and it will always be true.

We know the evil ones – the murderous hiding behind innocents - seeking to kill ever more innocents. It is they who will not BE – because GOOD demands it.

My prayers are ever with you and yours...

Ron said...


God - may he be found and sent to his reward today... then Bashar Assad, then Ahmadinejad... then Khamanei. Let that BE!

bodhisattva said...


we're holding a PRO PEACE rally in Toronto tomorrow (Across Eaton Center on Younge and Dundas at 7pm, 18th) to advocate peace, accountibility and an end to the violence. It would be great if you would link our effor to your Blog,

khalo l sawt ywadeh :)



Jim_TX said...


how is your rally going to stop hezbollah?

Who's side are you on? Lebanon's or Hezbollah's?

Is it like all these other leftist anti-war rallies that go about calling Israel Nazis and Bush Hitler.. all that jass. Cause if it is, well, sonny time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Lycanthropy said...

if returning two soldiers would end this, then it should be done as soon as possible.
we can not let our pride stand in the way of saving the country from this insanity unleashed by israel.

Maybe we should pettition hizb to realease them...
any ideas how this could be done?

Amon Ra said...

I am a Greek student in Birmingham, UK, and i found accidentally your blog 3 days ago.

I feel disgusted for what is going on but i do not see how things may get better. The powerfull leaders of the world were discussing yesterday the situation in the G8 summit ignoring that the microphones were still open. Bush called "shit" the fact that children die... very sensible... and very eclectic too.

I wish to Lebanese people no matter of religious or other perspectives to become stronger in the end of this unbelievable situation...

And as always, the role of the United Nations is the biggest joke...

HARBOOK said...

ive never seen anyone write the word sonny. its really heartwarming. why dont you and good ol' kinky hook up on a tortilla chowdown and get as happy as a hog in waller. or you could actually believe in something and voice that instead of being a chicken and cautioning others not to voice their opinion. so get a life jackass.

Doha said...


I posted yesterday about the Canada demos in this post:

bodhisattva said...


hi, how are you? I hope better than me (at least at a physical level im virtually all worn out, hehehe) but emotionally im doing fine i think. I just keep myself really busy with all this stuff and it helps me focus on a positive and productive approach to my day where i may make a difference. If i allow myself to indulge talking to my friends and family in lebanon too much, i think i'll break down. It's better like that. more focus, more energy, more productivity for our people, and the innocents.

As for the Toronto demo notification, i did see it and thank you for doing taht. But we spent all this morning running around between the police station, city hall and the mall trying to make sure that its ey-ok and we got the green, but we had to change the location and timing. Hence my update in your thread (sorry for hijacking it btw).

Thank you so much for your efforts and i wish you mental peace and harmony as i wish our families and the innocents everywhere (in lebanon palestine israel EVERYWHERE) safety peace and reconciliation. Be happy :)


p.S: i'll try to update you on our protest tomorrow iwht pictures (mind you we syncronzed sister protests in Montreal Before and Sydney after ours in TO, sort of a protest torch peace marathon) and if i forget, pls shoot me a quick mail/ping and ill do so gladly (i am quite forgetful these days, lol, maybe i should double my sleep to 7 hours hehehe)

Namaste again (

Zeabees said...

Amon Ra said...
"Bush called "shit" the fact that children die... very sensible... and very eclectic too."

That is not a true statement and you know it. He was referring to Hizbullah's forces stopping the s==t and returning the soliders.

Whether you like Bush or not... dont quote him if you cant say exactly what he said. Copy and paste is a wonderful thing!

Take care

Doha said...


i'll post an update on the toronto demo and other demos taking place in DC and NYC. thanks w take care.

Leah said...

In 1984 I tutored a Lebanese student who voiced the same sorrow for his country as you do. Like you, he had loved Lebanon, but for safety had moved to Jordan. He spoke so fondly of Beirut and the roots that he had to cut off. I feel so badly for all of the Lebanese people who are in the middle of this. The news reports that some are actually supportive of the Hezbollah, but I find it hard to believe that any would support their terrorist mechanism.

Lycanthropy, you are na├»ve in your suggestion that the Hezbollah be petitioned to release the two soldiers. Diplomacy works when each party can somehow put themselves into the other’s shoes. In addition there must be a mutual and realistic grasp of reality. The head of the Manar, the Hezbollah’s media, tonight stated that the Israeli’s must end their aggression through diplomacy and that their bombing of Lebanon is based on an alterior agenda, namely to change the political makeup of their northern borders. This was stated with no recognition for Hezbollah’s own role, for having invaded Israel, taking the two soldiers and inciting this round of violence to begin with. When you are dealing with people who won’t even recognize their own role in the scenario, what makes you think a petition even would register on their radar? When you are dealing with a rogue organization such as the Hezbollah, to give into their demands to return the 20 terrorists held prisoner in Israel would set a horrible precedent. Imagine if the American mafia took over one of the American states and started bombing another until their demands were met….that’s about as close as one could get to describing the Hezbollah method. Why should Israel give into this madness? And you call it “insanity unleashed by Israel.” Lebanon is hostage to the insanity of the Hezbollah!

The only solution is to neutralize Hezbollah and to help strengthen Lebanon in the future against such puppeteering.

Jay said...

you do not seem to understand the difference between liberal and conservative in this part of the world. you what conservatives, they ar the hizbollah and Hamas, the liberals are the ones fighting for freedom and democracy in our country, I know that may not fit your countries definitions but this is not the United states.

Oldcrow said...

we can not let our pride stand in the way of saving the country from this insanity unleashed by israel.

Unleashed by Isreal? Really? As I recall hezbollah launched rockets into civilian areas of Isreal and abducted two of their soldiers from Isreal, so tell me again who uleashed the insanity? There is no hope for Lebanon as long as people like you keep revising history and blaming the Isrealies and not the real culprits of this tragedy Hezbollah, syria, iran and hamas and as for the civilians inadvertantly killed by the IDF it is a tragedy but recall hezbollah targets civilians purposely. Bush was exactly right if syria would get their lapdogs hezbollah to return the abducted soldiers and stop firing missiles into Isreal this would all end and the sooner you and those like you come around to that fact the better.

box said...

hey - a lot of us are talking at

a message board created to discuss things at greater length by the people who have started a dialogue here. come join us!

fadibou said...

Lebanon never rises to surface until its pulled back down again.
Like you I love this country and although I am away for the past 10 years, I almost visit once a month and now my vacation for 10 days in August is messed up.
I love old beiruti houses, I love hamra street then take a right and walk past the AUB hospital down to bliss street and eat ice cream near the main gate.
Go inside and watch the sunset on the waves off manara.
walk down to the corniche and watch the people jog.
take a cab to barbir bridge. Eat a shawarma.
walk into tareek jdeedeh and smell the sweets near AL Malaab Al Baladi.
run to the Cola Bridge and face the bridge who witnessed most of the wars since 1975.
talk your way into the Sports City and remember the last time Isreal invaded Beirut and how it destroyed the place and it has risen again.
Slip to Sabra and Shatila and touch the soil which got blood on it.
cross Tayyoneh and forget the green line that seperated one Beirut.
Ain El Roumaneh where it started 31 years ago and the dead who thought they had a reason to die.
Photos of 100 days of siege and how it got rebuilt. Lebanese flags to Achrafieh and the high rise takin over its old nice houses.
you can still live on Sassine square and control the country, from shopping to nightlife to politics and arts. From snobs and french wanabies to shoemakers who still belive in the Lebanese Lira.
Stairs of Jemmayzeh
The port and you find yourself in downtown, where the city is still dusting off the war.
I am in New York today but I sure wish I was in Hamra Street today.
Keep Loving Lebanon, It will rise again.
Actually it never fell to rise again. Its still standing tall.

Los Angeles Observer said...


Don't give up hope. Sometimes that's all we have.

I know many hate the US, but Freedom is not FREE. We have went through civil wars, race riots,and now cultural clashes. In civil wars, it was brother against cousin for the direction of the country. THINGS CHANGED. In the race riots, it was to stop the abuse by police on a minorities. I was there. THINGS CHANGED. Now it's between liberals and conservative for the direction of the country. THINGS WILL CHANGE.

The point is...THINGS WILL CHANGE. Just be involved for them to change for the better.

Keep hope.

Jay said...

Regarding Bush, i think he has done enough damage in Iraq, we don't need US envolvement here. those he tells us he is fighting he has empowered, the islamist are now in iraq when they were not before, Iran is even stronger with now having the Iraqi shia, the Us is commiting war crimes, Abu Ghraib, haditha, Mukaradeeb wedding massarce and the young girl who was rapeed and her family murdered. americans should be careful when lecturing others from their comfortable home thousands of miles away.

Jim_TX said...


that fits the US exactly. Conservatives in America wish to Conserve the liberal ideology that founded this country. Primarily the rights granted by the Constitution and great respect for other founding documents like the "Declaration of Independence". You'll recognize I used the word leftist, these are the Cindy Sheehan, Code Pink, ANSWER, College Professors, Movie Stars, Michael Moore, etc. These types for instance meet at the Crawford Peace House, which I have been to. The map posted on the wall does not recognize "Israel" as a state. These people hate Israel more than any skinhead or neo-nazi.

I hope and pray for the liberals to prevail in Lebanon and Israel and the greater middle east.

Some who are called conservatives in the USA are really evangelical christians and want to eliminate science and other modes of progress in this country, they are a large voting block but are paid little attention too. Luckily evangelical christians are just annoying and don't fashion sucide belts for themselves and blow up a cinema. Even Bush, a devout Christian, is for Civil Contracts (basically gay marriage) without calling it gay marriage.

Again, Conservatives, the real ones, in America are classically Liberal and are liberal when compared to our "friends" in Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.

We want the world to look at our founding documents. Understand the inalienable rights everyone has and those who wish to impede your pursuit of happiness, those who wish to impede your right to speech, those who wish to impede your prayer whatever god you please are not working in YOUR best interests but in THEIR best interest and THEIR best interest very rarely will ally with the way you want to live your life.

Individual Liberties is very important to a US Style democracy. That is why so many people of so many different backgrounds are able to live in this country and become prosperous. Of course the US is not perfect and we have had our blemishes and failures, but living in the spirit of those documents is something we strive for and have done a pretty good job of doing. Something that needs to be planted in the Arab world and given root and time it will prevail and people will thirst and hunger for more and wish to share it with their neighbors.

Look at places like Georgia (ex USSR) and Eastern Europe and Poland. Look at Germany in 1989 and the absolute elation those people had when the wall came down. Later when the Czech republic was re-united. The Orange revolution and the Cedar Revolution. A nother Cedar Revolution against Hezbollah is all Lebanon needs!!! I KNOW YOU ALL CAN DO IT!!! America prays for it. I promise we will be in awe and we will be right beside you!!!

God please let that happen. Kick Hezbollah out and LIVE THE REVOLUTION in your country today, now!!

Jay said...

I studied in the US for two years, and I have read your constitution and in fact presented to my school here in a project, it is a great document worthy of the worllds praise. I know HA must go, I understand that, this is not the way but until all Leb feel as I do and many on this blog change will be painful. Im too tired to go into everyting now, perhaps another time

Jay said...

I meant to add deleration of independence also

Roger Snowden said...

lycanthropy-- "...this insanity unleashed by israel."

Right. Like how they managed to sneak across the border and snatch a couple of soldiers and started this mess.

Oh wait! That would be Hezbollah.

Never mind.

stateroom said...

Assad Sr.'s hatred of Islamic militants was well established. Without hesitation, he ruthlessly crushed the Islamic rebellion in Hama, Northern Syria where, for 27 days, the Syrian army besieged the city, bombarded it with heavy artillery and tank fire, invaded it, and slaughtered between 30,000 and 40,000 men, women and children in the process. After the carnage was completed, Hama was bulldozed out of existence and paved over as a permanent national monument to the futility of rebellion against the Assad regime. Such was Hafez al-Assad's policy in dealing with radical Islamic fundamentalism.

And no one complained when he did it. He knew how to deal with Hizbolah.

lebanese_student said...

Thanks again for your updates and information. Today I received a call from my mother, in tears, because she only has the american cable channels at home and it seems they are focusing SO much on putting their reporters in Israel...even on anderson cooper's show they keep repeating the same damn footage of an apartment building in haifa that has half of one floor blown off. That's BULL. I hate everything about hezbollah and completely support what Israel is doing but simply from the journalistic perspective its so unfair that they are not showing any reality to family members trying to ensure their loved ones aren't dead! The da7yeh is basically destroyed and all they show is some old lady in haifa crying...shoo hayda ya 3ammeh! i've never believed in israeli bias in american media until now, what my mom told me and then what i witnessed with my own eyes.

lebanese_student said...

i forgot to add in my last comment that therefore, i've referred a lot of my family members to your blog, and the whole blog family at and
thanks again

Jim_TX said...


you think it is safe for American media to go in to Lebanon (Hezbollah areas) right about now?

After Daniel Pearl, Nick Berg, Paul Johnson, etc. I don't think reporter want to end up on the internet in a beheading video. JMO.

nasbined said...

Every Israeli with dual citizenship and zionist needs to be banned from Lebanon even as a guest. They have no right to enjoy it. No Jewish sounding names, no Christians for Israel no shit as America says.

Shmulik said...

lebanese.student you can always watch BBC news where lebanese victims are named and their story told (they don't do it for israelis as far as I have seen so media bias works both ways).

stateroom said...

DEBKAfile: An Israeli F15 fighter bomber intercepted a Hizballah Zelzal ground-ground missile of 160km range east of Beirut Monday, July 17

July 18, 2006, 12:15 AM (GMT+02:00)

According to the rough estimate of Israeli military intelligence, this loss leaves Hizballah with another 11 of these heavy weapons, although its stockpile may prove to be somewhat larger. The descent of the Zelzal shown on Lebanese TV gave rise to the false report that an Israeli warplane had been shot down.

And meanhile the cowards hide while Lebanon is destroyed:

DEBKAfile Exclusive reveals: Hizballah leader Hassan Nassrallah and top command are holed up in Hermel, the northern Lebanese panhandle bordering Syria

July 17, 2006, 11:02 AM (GMT+02:00)

Among them, according to DEBKAfile’s military and Iranian sources, are Hizballah’s “chief of staff” Ibrahim Akil, its head of intelligence and terror Imad Mughniyeh and commander of special operations Halil Harab.

Like Osama bin Laden, they have set up a command center in customized bunkers hewn in a remote mountain hideout.

Jay said...

No christians? do you know your history? my family is christian we have been there for centuries, yes even before muslums. i have many muslums friends and do not wish them harm and am happy to share this land

Jay said...

before i go back to bed, i predict nassrallah will flee or be killed within two weeks, israel will not stop until he is gone, i now believe it will happen

good night all

Lazarus said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
nasbined said...

Jay ya Christians for Israel see them running America.

Lazarus said...

I need some help.
I Would like you to see if you can reach a web site. There's nothing there right now but a starter page. I need to find out if it is propagated around the world this fast as I have it here.

Please post back to tell me if you can reach it or not. It is the holm-halom web site

Jay said...

they do not represent christianity, no religion should run a country,

Grace said...


stateroom said...

lazarus - yes

J.Fred said...

What is happening to Lebanon is terribly painful to watch and there is no comparing this little pain with Lebanon's pain.

I'm an American and I'm grateful to know and to have known Lebanese from various communities within her. Unfortunately most Americans are oblivious to the deep kinship between Lebanon's typical entrepeurial vitality and her historical intercommunal tolerance on the one hand, and Americans' similar traits on the other.

Hizballah, a devious snake, has insinuated Iranian military adventurists over a popular political organization. Hizbollah doesn't manage to control itself; how dare it usurp control over Lebanon?

Comments by Lebanese bloggers regarding past American perfidy in signing away Lebanon to Syria (and thereby Iran) are too true. The arrogance of 'diplomacy realists' who deal away freedom loving people to appease fascists is appalling. It was evil. I pray it stops for all time.

It is appalling arrogance when certain Americans--who are otherwise close to my own opinions--think that Lebanon ought to come running gratefully after 'we' remove Hizballah 'for you'.

Arrogance, and ignorance.

Somehow, somehow, somehow it must be possible for:
a) Hizballah's military wing to be destroyed,
b) Syria's devious corruptions neutralized, and
c) the thugs of Qom replaced by wiser counsel from Najaf among the suffering Shiites.

I pray that Hizballah, Syria, and Iran will be removed from life in Lebanon. I pray you will revive, in your own right and by divine mercy, and then create the beautiful, democratic, free Lebanon that has so nearly already come into being.

You will teach us courage and wisdom. You will teach us what it means to love liberty.

So, that's it, my little commentary, for whatever it is worth. For slightly more practical support, now I will go find Lebanese dolmas [they are the best, you know] at a 'middle-eastern' grocery store. If I am very lucky I will find Lebanese labneh in olive oil... so good!

Long live Lebanon. Long live the Cedar Revolution. May God pour mercy and blessings upon you, and give you life with peace.

lebanese_student said...

no, jim from texas, i don't think its safe. but then again, i don't think you can call something "free and fair reporting" without giving each side of the story equal time. i mean, i hate hezbullah with a passion, and i put them to blame for whatever is happening in my country right now. but it wouldn't hurt to have a couple reporters in lebanon (maybe not hezbollah areas but at least somewhere different from Nick Robertson from CNN in front of the same building in Beirut) the same way that each station has a couple reporters in nahariya and haifa and tel aviv. for sure i have never realized the bias until today...and i am saying this with my heart. thank goodness for the internet so my family and friends can be more assured. god bless to all in this mess.

box said...

"free and fair" to some means hammering hezbollah from every side possible; hammering lebanon by association. "seeing all sides" is going on to hammer iran and syria, and anyone or any other entity that dares to state israel's actions are wrong.

they're wrong - sue me.

GatesResFor40Years said...

Peace and blessings to all, but esp. to the innocents and noncombatants. It sure does seem like Iran and Syria are using Lebanon like a pawn where the goal is Iranian influence over the entire region. Do they or Hizbolla really have the interests of Lebanon in mind?
Can't human being disagree and negotiate and even get p**sed without resorting to murdering one another? Isn't it possible to see things from the perspective of the enemy?
In general most of us in America have huge empathy for the underdog. The Palistinans have an argument that deserves to be heard but almost is never heard over the explosions in pizza restaurants and discotheques. If the Palistinians in fact have the better argument, might that not be heard better over time through nonviolent passive resistence? Or do they really believe that it's better that everyone die if they don't get justice right now on their exclusive terms?
From my point of view counterarguments are welcome. It's the only way forward and the only path fit for humans.

stateroom said...

Of course those dirty, blood drinking jews are wrong for not allowing themselves to be wiped out. That would be free and fair.
In fact even the liberal Gandhi`s advice to the Jews during WW2 was to allow the Nazis to xtermininate them.

reminiscor said...

"Of course those dirty, blood drinking jews are wrong for not allowing themselves to be wiped out."

Wiped out? By Hezbollah? Oh right, I forgot Israel is fighting on two fronts. I am almost under the impression that this Nasrallah bowo is so dangerous that Israel is in imminent danger of destruction. Be serious please.

Shmulik said...

If Staterom would have written
"Of course those dirty, blood drinking jews are wrong for not allowing themselves to be MURDERED SLOWLY" it will strike you as more reasonable?

stateroom said...

Do not be flippant. I was being very serious. Isn`t Hiz helping the manifestation of the 12th imam as called for by the holy leader of Iran who `exuded` an aura in the UN (Useless Nations).

You can run out and do your bit you know.

Hope said...

I'm an Israeli, so I'm not objective, but I do hope the Lebanese will finally understand that they can't have an independent, armed, cruel terrorist organiztion like Hezbolla in their peaceful, developing and beautiful country and expect safety. You can't expect Israel to do nothing when its army is attacked inside its international borders for no reason at all by that terrorist organization, soldiers are killed and 2 of them are taken as captives. Was Israel supposed to ask for Hezbolla's forgiveness and free all the Hezbolla prisoners from Israeli prisons?

I do hope the Lebanese army will finally stand up to those murderous people who destroy all hope for peace and rid Lebanon of them. I believe Israel can easily have a peace agreement with Lebanon after the Hezbolla are deported to Iran, where they belong. The sooner the better.

emental76 said...

> americans should be careful when lecturing others from their comfortable home thousands of miles away

Exactly Jay!
Americans are talking about their democracy and constitution and how they live in peace - many nationalities side by side. Fine. BUT. There's one big BUT. They have whole continent for themselves. They killed indians and took whole country. They have NO equal neighbours. What? Mexico? Canada?

They just CAN NOT understand. Here in Europe / Asia many nations of very different opinions live close to each other and they all have their land which they love and don't want to go somewhere else. All countries have strong historical roots.

In USA many nationalities live together. Yes. But they live in "neutral" land. Maybe many of them feel it's their home and their land. But all these people are not strong patriots, who would never leave their country and go to USA. So people in USA just can't understand. They want to "make democracy" everywhere in the world but it's not as easy as install OS Windows...

And these people rule the world....... (or they try to)

Ilan said...

Hope it will be over soon. It makes me sick that due to madness of one (Nasrallah) two countries are suffering. Innocents are being killed...
Stay strong!
Sending salut from the Israeli side,

Yuvi said...

To Doha

My name is Yuvi and i am Isreali . i haven't read all of your posts and i don't know what you are a Shiite Muslem or a Christian . But i want to tell you that the Israelis do not !!!!!! want the destruction of Lebanon infact we want the opposite . we in Israel have a hope for peace with our neighbors. Look at Egypt and Jordan , although we don't have a "warm" least we live peacfully with one another . why can't Lebanon join to this kind of peace? The blame is Nassrala . he invaded Israel with no provocation at all , he kidnapped 2 soldiers. and killed 4 others. Even now when the IDF attack south Lebanon , the Christian villages do not get hurt only Shiite villages .I know that there are tragedies in the form of little children get hurt or other innocent ppl. but you have to remember that this is a war . a war who had been forced on us by the Hezbollah. we try very hard not to attack civilians ,they are not our target but they do get hurt . because they live next to Hizbullah. But Hizbullah his main target are Israeli civilians.
we are offering a peaceful hand to Lebanon. and i hope you will able someday to visit Tel Aviv , and we could visit Beirut . Inshallah.

Shmulik said...

i am an israeli and believe me that not only sh'ite areas are attacked. i fully support these attacks because the hizballah human-shields policy but your info is a bit off.

Omer (israeli) said...

where is jad j?
i haven't maneged to join his google group.

Dreamer of peace.
Lets face it, its only a dream.

Eran Tel-Aviv said...

there is a forum not in google but here.
unfortunately i can't access the server.

stephenbrash said...

The State of Israel can only handle "peace" treaties with tin pot dictators like that unelected king of Jordan and military dictator in Egypt.

The two societies where they have free elections, Palestine and Lebanon, are not acceptable and in the case of tolerant, diverse and liberal Lebanon it is a threat to everything that Israel, a State established for the benefit of one group at the expense of another group with equal claims to the land.

The State of Israel, like the former apartheid state in southern africa, will keep this destructive effort up until the dictatorships in Egypt, Jordan fall away and then eventually it will after exhuasting all of us come to its sense and embrace diversity and democracy instead of arresting it without charges.

Omer (israeli) said...


We can only accept peace with countries and organizations that don't call for the destruction of Israel.
The PL's should have their own land, but as long as it is just another front for the Iranian overlords, Israel won't be able to live in peace.

Omer (israeli) said...

Think about it:

Olmert promised withdrawl from the west bank, and elected based on that. Sharon already withdrew from Gaza.
So how politicily smart are the Hamas and HA to attack israel specificily now?
They will keep there arms anyway. but they aren't very smart.

Eran Tel-Aviv said...

no point in arguing with blockheads....
i miss jad and suha...where are they today...

Viper1 said...

Americans DO understand, I'm an american I was born in america. The land I live on is mine I have never known any other land, And I do understand.

We do not try to run the world that is your misconception, we try to do what we can to help peoples from all over. Sometimes it works sometimes it does not. If we did nothing you would say we sit and watch while people die or whatever.
I have heard your argument before, it hold little or no water like a vase with a hole in it.

Israel needs to destroy the Hezbollah and Hamas. Only then can the free minded people of Lebanon and Palestine come forward to negotiate for a peaceful resolution to all of these issues, for now there will be war until these Terrorist groups have been vanquished.

Be safe if you are in the region, please and god watch over you.

Shmulik said...

please explain to me this:
What has Israel done wrong in Lebanon after 2000 that justifies any attack across our border??

Jad J said...

Omer, ERan,
we are in the forum:

we faced some trouble with googlegroups, now i think its working fine, lets wait and see since its more user friendly than the invisionfree

go there, register, validate ure registration via the link sent to ure email, then welcome to HolmHalom :D

Dream Big

Yuvi said...

To Stephenbrash.

You are talking without looking for the fact . the palestinians do not , and i repeat do not !!! recognise Israel with who you think we should have peace ? oh , and the elected government that you mention is Hamas , a militant organisation who have a target to eliminate Israel . We have no choice but to defend ourselves . the treaties that was signed with them during Yasser Arafat regime, is warth as a toilet paper . they never kept them .
And about Lebanon , it is not the elected government of Lebanon , it is the Hizbullah. the lebanese elected government don't apply there . it is the contrary we demand the elected government to deploy their soldiers in South Lebanon . and to take responsibility over their land .

Eran Tel-Aviv said...

Jad how are u?
since ths morning i can't access the server. can u tell me if you can reach it?

Omer (israeli) said...

jad, I'm not able either

Omer (israeli) said...

i still understand stephenbrash and hir anger. We did some stupid stuff as well.
Hopefuly well have the chance to make them right.

Shmulik said...

I can't get into the forum!!

John said...

Doha: Don't lose heart, this too shall pass. Damn. That sounded like a bad cliche, though from where I cannot recall. Even so, this will end and Lebanon will be rebuilt. I only pray that freedom and democracy flourishes there.

Doha, Jad, Omer, Subrosa, Suha, and the rest of you: take care of yourselves today. I can't access the board from work so I'll check it out when I get home. God bless.

Jad J said...

ok guys, it seems we are facing troubles with the forum... on various levels... we will still give it some try, if that fails, we'll find something else. Ive been working on an advanced blog system... have faith,

Dream Big

emental76 said...

do you really think, you can destroy terrorism with rockets and bombs?
Typically "easy solution" for US :-/

Terrorism is not an army. It's not physical. It's a hate in people's heads.

You need to understand and destroy REASONS, why do people hate. Otherwise you will shoot terrorists and every day there will be more of them, because you will "blow into the fire".

In my opinion, this is not the way...

yair said...

Here is something I posted elsewhere in hope of starting a discussion:

What the f@ck is going around here?

All the Israeli commentators I heard at the first day of the war were sure about this: Olmert wants to "act crazy" to deter future attacks, and cement his standing in internal politics. Within 48 hrs there will be huge international pressure for an immediate cease fire. HA apparently had the same idea when it started it all... I too confess to have believed that. Indeed, in that first day France, Russia and other countries called for an immediate cease fire and an end to the totally disproportional Israeli response. You all remember that, don't you?

Then they had a talk in the G8 summit and gave their statement. The channel 10 and channel 22 commentators were astounded: No talk of proportionality and no mention of cease fire or any kind of time-line. They are all signed on it. Including Russia and France etc. Lebanese bloggers raised hell.

Here is my theory: Iran broke a sacred international taboo. It's not about respecting the sovereignty of Israel or Lebanon, kidnapping or destabilizing. What is the Worst nightmare of world leaders? It is well defined: Nukes in the hand of "terrorists" i.e. of small non-state players. I think Iran got too close to that with HA. They took a guerrilla group and gave it top-of-the-line nation-state-level weapons. Silkworm ground to sea missiles. Long range ground to ground missiles (like the Zilzal) etc. And now they are developing nukes...

your thoughts?

emental76 said...

I didn't say you don't understand what it means to love your country.

I said you don't understand complicated situation in battlegrounds which are thousands of miles from you. In absolutely different world than yours.

Omer (israeli) said...


I'm with you on that

Eran Tel-Aviv said...

100% with you on that (:

Viper1 said...

I was mistaken when I thought you viewed the situation clearly. You have an obvious position which you wish to share?
In the bigger scheme Yes you are right its not guns and bombs its a mindset and way of thinking, However in the immediate situation there is NO other solution but to destroy thier means of waging war/terror and then fixing the problems that led to these twisted ideas that drove them to terrorize people.

IMO. Israel should march its troops across the border and occupy southern Lebanon and in doing so they should destroy all of Hezbollah and its supporters. They should then use thier abilities to assist the good people of Lebanon to rebuild thier country and thier society into the free and beautiful world that it can be.

As long as there is Hezbollah there will be no peace in Lebanon. [/MO

I wish for all of you in the region to be safe. V1

Shmulik said...

Interesting analysis Yair but i think you know israeli objectives in this war are much motre complex.

Jad J said...

i'll post something soon as to WHY NOW ! cant wait to hear ure comments!

emental76 said...

Omer thanks for support.

USA is OK, but what I really don't like is their limited, black-and-white point of view -
"These are good and these are bad, we will destroy bad ones and everything's gonna be all right".
And there you go - even more violence in the world.
But this is not the way it is in real world.

Again Viper1 - how is it possible to "occupy southern Lebanon and destroy all of Hezbollah and its supporters" ?
Don't you still understand you can't see inside people's heads?
How do you know WHO is supporter? It's not written on people's foreheads.

( but it sounds good - american easy solution. right ? )

Rockets and bombs are now doing the same thing you propose - kill everybody in their way. Because everybode could be Hezbollah supporter. You never know. Do you like it? WELL I DON'T.

You say "in the immediate situation there is NO other solution"
No? I'm not sure. But I think this is a radical solution.

And if killing so many people is the solution,
I think there MUST be some other solution.

Shmulik said...

Tell me he truth emental76, Hizballah has killed and injured many people in Israel this last 6 years with out provocation. Did you care? Did you demonstrate? Did you even know?

box said...

shmulik - how does it all add up? since israel left in 2000 -

how many israelis have been killed by hezbollah? how many have been imprisoned?

at the same time -

how many lebanese/palestinians (at the northern border) have been killed by israel? how many have been imprisoned?

this would be very interesting to know - we in the states only hear about israel's losses, and never much about hezbollah/lebanese/northern palestinians losses.

Omer (israeli) said...

The main problem is not what HA thinks, but what it does.
It has military cabaility witch is able to seriously threaten Israel ( i.e: thousands of rockets).

As long as people just think something there is no problem, but when a third party starts to arm them and they become aggressive in the name of Allah they are an immediate threat (how sad, that god is smeard into this).

But in my mind Israel helped create the HA indeed, and now us and all of the world are stuck with them. We did in the same way americans did what they did in Afganistan and Iraq. They dont have the experiance Israel has today, it was a grave mistake.

But then its a tricky situation, what do you do? how do you fight terrorism without creating more? or should we just accept it?

Any solution? i ask seriously

Shmulik said...

BOX as far as I know know no Lebanese has been killed in Lebanon by the IDF since we withdrew. Some Hizbalah fighters were killed inside Israeli borders n attacks against us. In fact Israeli soldiers in the last few years have been orderd to do nothing that might provoke the Hizballah.The worst Israli violation that I am aware off is israeli recon flights over the border (there might also be a chance very very very few lebanese died inside Lebanon during fire exchnges following hizbllah attacks, I am not sure). more than 10 (I think) Israeli were killed and 3 captured. The death toll may be small to you but you must understand that it's both a matter of principal and our belief (proved true) that the hizballah will get more powerful weapons and get "bolder"

emental76 said...

No Shmulik.
I didn't know. Like most people in the world didn't know.
Because they (and I) don't live in that region.
Do you feel I'm on the Hizballah's side? Believe me - absolutely not.

What I'm demonstrating here against, is the black-and-white point of view on conflicts like this one.
I'm trying to say that terrorism is not a traditional kind of enemy.
It's not like destroy the army of Hitler and the war is over.
So I think traditional way of fighting will not succeed.

I wish I had a simple solution...... :((

Omer (israeli) said...

You know the answer, Israel is the stronger side in this conflict.
But is it okay to self-detonate on buses? or to kidnap, fire rockets? hide behind civilians while shooting at Isreali troops?

Let me tell you all a story that makes it clear to everyone that BOTH sides have basiclly gone out of control:

1. I have a friend, an Ex-commander in the IDF. He told me how his soldiars vandelised a home, while searching for a "wanted", they did it on purpose.
2. The same friend, told me how during fighting a militant grabed a child, maybe six years old, inoredr to protect himself, since he knew that if my friend will hit the child, Him and indeed Israel will be in a tight spot.

He also said: "I understand the Pl's, if i was in their position i would fight too, I have respect to the fighter who fights for what he belives, but hiding behind children?"

Look everyone, this whole situation put us all in a crazy spot. When guns talk, the minds numbs. The unthinkable becomes thinkable, the ugly becomes cruel.

Shmulik said...

I can only answer you this:
Do you remmber the terror inside Israeli cities before and after "defensive shield"?
You can't destroy terroism with weapons (unless you go nazi-style agains the civilians harboring them), but you can weaken it considerably. BTW here were some insurgency/terroists that have been quashed, it usually demands military force AND a political change.

Shmulik said...

Just curious were are you from?
what you say is indeed what irks us. When israelis gets blown up in busses it's usually buisness as usual but when we fight back and in many cases risking our soldiers so we will not cause horrible civilian casulties we are branded war criminals (I can give you many examples if you wish). We are not saints by the way, but I hope you have seen from the blogs that we are not blood-thirsty children-eaters the world makes us to be. Indeed there is no pure military way to deal with terroism, but it can be reduced dramaticly (i will elaborate if you want).

emental76 said...

Guess! ;)

I really don't think you are "blood-thirsty children-eaters" :)
and I'm angry that this world is ruled by media.
And - media are owned by people.
Result - we will never know the whole truth, we know only what media (owners) want to tell us.

Like BOX have said:
"we in the states only hear about israel's losses,
and never much about hezbollah/lebanese/northern palestinians losses."

Oh sh*t. Why bad people have the biggest power here?.......

Shmulik said...

The real tragedy is that We all believe we are doing the right thing. i am sure that even Nasarallah thinks he is serving lebanon some how.

emental76 said...

But I think many people are able convince themselves they are doing the right thing (even if their heart is telling them something else) when it comes to paying the bills...

Viper1 said...

I would give you my "Solution" to the problem. However it would not be well accepted by you or the owner of this Blog, It is not a widely held POV in my country but does have a lot of support.

Lets suffice to say that RADICAL situations require RADICAL solutions. As unpalettable as they may be.

My views are my own, not my countries, they are mine and I stand by them. Im sorry if we disagree.

I look at this like this;
If Cuba were lobbing missiles into south florida, would America not destroy the entire Island of Cuba, yes we would, the people would settle for no less. If you were in the others shoes what would your view be? how would say to deal with the problem.
The are all greedy men who only wish for power, Hezbollah wants power, Hamas wants power Lebanese poeple wants power Israeli people wants powere US wants power.. where does it stop?? It is the cause of all of this..

Omer (israeli) said...

Hey eveyone,
Jad did a great job and opened a new forum where both Israeli and Lebanese (and others) can talk:

Thanx Jad

Erick said...

Why was a family living in a Lebanese army barracks?

Aisah_6 said...

It's high time that Lebanon pays for its refuse to disarm Hezbollah, an armed militia in competition with the official army and which belongs to a political party with a sectarian origin and an extreme political vision. Hezbollah is Lebanon's responsibility.

Jad J said...

Aisah_6 and everyone,
If u dont have time to read other comments, then dont screw up this blog... anyway, we;re working on a new forum, once its done, everyone will be invited and all these infos and analysis will be shown to you, then you can start judging each other from both sides of the border!

Jad J said...

ok.. its official... the HolamHalom group has have moved to a newer more advanced forum that can be found at:

Please register and sorry for all the inconvenience!

joenuzz said...

I hope that Israel destroys the leaders of these Islamist fascists at they hide in Hermel. Then maybe Lebanon can be at peace.

fabucat said...

I'm not Jewish, nor Lebanese. I'm an American. My great-grandfather might have been German Jewish, who converted to Christianity under duress. I was raised nominally Protestant and if I'm sympathetic to any religion, I'd say that I am a Buddhist. I wrote the previous sentences to let you know where I'm coming from.

I'm apalled, appalled by Israel's outrageous overreaction to the kidnapping of 2 soldiers. I'm outraged by the fact that no one in my government represents my point of view. Democrats and Republicans are in unison -- Israel can do no wrong.

Here's my point of view. Israel now has become a terrorist state. It is now crystal clear that Israel was looking for an excuse to attack Lebanon. She has been planning this offensive for years. From what I understand, most of the terrorist attacks upon Israel have been done by Palestinians or other terror organizations, such as Zarkawi's. Hezbollah attacked Israel's military not her civilians.

Ostensibly 2 soldiers are the excuse for murdering 300 civilians and destroying Lebanon. I recall that Lebanon was making a miraculous recovery from that terrible civil war. Now Beirut's new airport is destroyed, as well as much of her infrastructure. 1/2 million Lebanese are homeless. Israel is urging S. Lebanese to flee, but not to use vans or motorcycles to do it. So if a Lebanese wants to evacuate, and only has a van or motorcycle, I guess he can flee on foot (or non-motorized bike).

What about the 25,000 Americans who were in Lebanon at the time this conflict began? By supporting Israel, the US government had put Americans in Lebanon at risk. To date, most Americans in Lebanon have not evacuated. Consequently, 1000s of Americans are still at risk in a war zone. Thank you US government for caring more about Israel than about Americans and about Lebanese, not to mention tourists of dozens of other nationalities who found themselves in Lebanon when the hostilities began.

In addition, The Guardian is reporting that Israel sought the Bush Administration's consent before going forward with its retaliation. That's just swell.

Shmulik said...

I don't know if you are jewish or Buddahist but you ARE very poorly informed. Hizballah (apart from military operations) has conducted numerous terroist acts before and after isaeli withdrawl from Lebanon. Let us continue the fairy-tale that hizbalag attacks only soldiers. Using your point of view That military attacks inside Israel are justified if only soldiers are killed, Israel was justified in staying in Lebanon since it was fighting hizballah militants and not civilians.
You are right it wasn't just about 2 soldiers kidnapped, it was about 2 kidnapped, 3 dead, several civilians wounded and a long string of murderous attacks across the border in the last 6 years. The fact we had a contingency plan in case the hizbollah attacks again, makes us criminal? BTW why do you think 13,000 iranian missiles are in hizballah's hands??