Saturday, July 15, 2006

North Attacked Again This Night

Air attacks on the city of Tripoli, Dinnieh and Akkar in the north. Why?

Update: Israeli fliers thrown down Batroun warning civilians from being close to the Batroun bridge and the tunnel on the highway.

Update 2: It turns out that the flyer news was not correct; just a rumor. Thank God.

"Nobody knows how many rebellions, besides political rebellions, ferment in the masses of life which people earth."

140 comments:

Mustapha said...

Doha, are you sure? I can't hear anything..

Mojoski said...

I pray that innocent peace-loving Lebanese will be spared as much pain as possible.

I hope they all recognise that Israel doesn't have to drop these flyers. The flyers also warn the Hezballah terrorists to evacuate as well. But obviously Israel doesn't mind militarily disadvantaging itself in this way if it can save innocent Lebanese people.

A curse on Hezballah for bringing this destruction on the people of Lebanon!

box said...

"DON'T DO THIS. Don't obstruct the Israeli military or the leadership at this time."

yes - don't dare utilize your right to free speech when it counts.

box said...

"I hope they all recognise that Israel doesn't have to drop these flyers. The flyers also warn the Hezballah terrorists to evacuate as well. But obviously Israel doesn't mind militarily disadvantaging itself in this way if it can save innocent Lebanese people."

actually, according to CNN, the benevolent israelis dropped leaflets in a southern village stating (pretty much what you said - coincidence?)...

“is hezbollah helping the situation of lebanon?
hezbollah is damaging lebanon!” sporting a graphic of the head of hezbollah as a serpent.

as people came out to read the leaflets, they were bombed.

Robohobo53 said...

Hizballah makes a raid into Israel and captures two IDF soldiers. That is called an act of war. The same for the Hamas action from Gaza in the south. And then you wonder why retribution is rained upon your heads?

Boot the terrorists out. Send them running back to their masters in Damacus and Tehran. If you do not comtrol your own country then either you are complicit in their actions or too weak to be allowed to remain on this planet.

The Jihadists have openly stated their intentions. Soom the West will (hopefully) state theirs. We DO NOT plan an bending our necks in submission. Be warned.

The Hobo

nuggs said...

The Irano-Syrian strategy, especially since Ahmadinejad's decision to make the destruction of the Jewish state a priority of his administration, would encourage those in Israel who insist that it should seize the current opportunity for breaking the Hezbollah's war machine even in the face of a broader war. In doing so Israel could claim that it was simply helping Lebanon implement Resolution 1559.

The stakes have been raised beyond anyone's expectation.

If Israel backs down now and ends its campaign without disarming the Hezbollah it would, in effect, hand Iran and Syria an unexpected victory. This would also spell the end of Lebanon's new democratic government and the return in force of Syrian and Iranian influence in Lebanon. At the other end of the spectrum in Palestine, such an Israeli retreat would give a badly hurt Hamas a second lease of life and greater vigour to pursue its radical strategy. If, on the other hand, Israel removes the Hezbollah from the Lebanese scene it would be the turn of the leaderships in Tehran and Damascus to come to terms with a major strategic setback that could encourage their internal enemies. What is certain is that this conflict will not end until one side wins and another side loses. The G-8 may try to postpone decision-time for a bit longer. But it is hard not to see that there are two visions of the Middle East, one backed by the United States and its allies, including Israel, the other promoted by Iran and Syria and their surrogates.

Since a synthesis of the two is not possible, even the G-8 may realise that they cannot prevent a broader regional war.

Amir Taheri in asharq alawsat

naomba.com said...

phew -- thanks admin's -- i hope this will keep the discussion a bit more civil and productive...

Jad J said...

yeah,, ,goood work... ! keep up the good work, i have to sleep now, hope ure all still there hanging on to your hopes when i wake up :D

nuggs said...

I really do hope you wake up Jad J

box said...

robert fisk's perspective... http://deficientbrain.blogspot.com/2006/07/robert-fisk-what-i-see-in-lebanon-each.html

yeah, doha. it is much nicer! i'm still disappointed to see israelis expound on what lebanon should do - as if lebanon, not israel, is the instigator. i hope you limit the propaganda with regard to that. i don't think lebanese people can communicate here, sadly... so we rely on news and our thoughts, and people who try to speak for them.

me, i'm just an american that hates what i'm seeing right now - and know that my government has an evil part to play. i probably don't belong here - but i am frustrated without a place to talk. my government, media, is lying to my country, again. you're here; i think you know.

thanks again!

bouchra7703 said...

Hey guys, I hope that you are safe & doing good. I am originally from Tripoli. I work for a news agency & I am wondering if I can contact you directly & ask you some questions. Can you please sms me or email me your number? Do you have a copy of the leaflet? Thanks

Suha said...

To all Israelis on this blog:

Please, please, please: I urge you to demonstrate against the war in Lebanon. It does not serve any purpose but prolonging the violence and the hatred that has existed between our countries for too long.

I hesitate to post this, but...
These are the victims of this war. These are villagers warned to leave their homes by the IDF. They were killed today while trying to flee north by a direct hit.

100+ dead so far. I do not want anymore of this. I do not want it for me and I do not want it for you. And I do not want it for our children.

Details of the demo from a fellow blogger:
We'll meet at 19:00 on the corner of Frishmann and Chen Blvd.
Those who can help making signs should come as of 16:00 to "haGada haSmalit", 70 Ahad Ha'am St.
For more information: 050-7425484 / 050-6230249.
Details concerning transportation from other cities will appear later on.

Suha said...

Doha,

could you paste details of the demo on the main page? Israeli public opinion is the only thing that can influence the Israeli government.

box said...

i couldn't find a pic of one - CNN reported it. i did find this, though... from november 2005...

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41049000/jpg/_41049716_leaflet_203afp.jpg&imgrefurl=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4463096.stm&h=152&w=203&sz=12&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=TwRoowOQKEMPdM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhezbollah%2Bleaflet%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

bouchra7703 said...

How can I call you guys? please use this email, nano31320@ureach.com
Thanks

Jay said...

I hesitate to post this, but...
These are the victims of this war. These are villagers warned to leave their homes by the IDF. They were killed today while trying to flee north by a direct hit.

What emotion should we have when we see our children slaughtered? same as you. Israelis profess to hate killing civilian yet they recklessly slaughter. this will help bring peace? it is very difficult not to hate, i pray for the strength not to despise all of israel.

Mouse said...

Hey guys,

you can sign the "Save the Lebanese civilians petition" if you want.
http://julywar.epetitions.net

I know, it isn't mucht but it is something

crosspatch said...

"Air attacks on the city of Tripoli, Dinnieh and Akkar in the north. Why?"

Reports I am reading today say that Israel is eliminating all radar stations along the coast and throughout Lebanon.

Jay said...

you can sign the "Save the Lebanese civilians petition" if you want.
http://julywar.epetitions.net
I know, it isn't mucht but it is something

Its a nice gesture. what group are you? what country?

box said...

youssef - signed!

Jay said...

youssef - signed

i see, thanks

carine said...

does anyone know the source of these suuuuper loud explosions in bey? shit another. this can't be from dahieh.

Ariya said...

Why no "Save The Israeli Civilians" petition?

Jos said...

yeah, excatly, it's not much but it's something.I signed, and forwarded it.

dunno said...

Sorry to bother you all. This is my first ever blog. I need to get to Beirut ... to see someone important, and because it is a city I love. My MEA ticket is waste-paper. But can I get down from the north, from Latikia to Beirut? Are there still buses running .. or at least the odd service? Not leaving for a week or so, so things may change, but it would be useful to know how things stand now.

Oh and btw .. thanks to you all for being here. I need to know what is going on.

Jay said...

Why no "Save The Israeli Civilians" petition?

Because they dont have one of the worlds most powerful armies attacking it from the land air and sea.

1earth said...

This is an worthy read from an American writer living in Beirut. He has not left despite the American government's warnings.
It's a breath of fresh air and reality.

http://www.slate.com/id/2145714/nav/tap1/

Stop arguing over save a Lebanese civilian petition and a save the Israeli civilians petition. What's needed is a "Save the Civilians" petition.

erydan said...

Aparently thet just hit the bridge by Monoprix near/on? Babda Hazmieh road.

Too bad about Monoprix, good to hitting the roads leading from HAland to Hazmieh

1earth said...

"Because they dont have one of the worlds most powerful armies attacking it from the land air and sea"

Jay, that was just obnoxious. When your child's flesh is torn apart you won't care if his pain came from a f16 or a rocket.

1earth said...

"Because they dont have one of the worlds most powerful armies attacking it from the land air and sea"

Jay, that was just obnoxious. When your child's flesh is torn apart you won't care if his pain came from a f16 or a rocket.

donj said...

Myself like most Irish people are outraged at Israel’s behaviour. Ireland is in the EU and let me assure you that the majority of EU citizens feel angry about Israel bombardment of Lebanon!!! I hope all you guys and gals in Lebanon and your families keep safe - you're all in my thoughts and prayers!

Shmulik said...

Israel has targetted Lebanon's army coastal radars because it believes they were used to guide the missile attack on the warship. The IDF also attacked a Lebanese unit trying to shoot down a fighter jet. Other than that the IDF claims it did not attack the Lebanese army.

Jay said...

Jay, that was just obnoxious. When your child's flesh is torn apart you won't care if his pain came from a f16 or a rocket.

you missed the point, and that was a stupid comment. I'v live through the horrors of war and seen my country torn apart. I don't need any childish enlightenment from you,

1earth said...

You think you are the only person who has seen war and conflict? So what? That entitles you to be blind and ignorant?

Jay said...

How was i blind and ignorant? I am not playing the martor just responding to your post. perhaps its best we discontinue this dialogue as it serves no purpose.

I pray for peace.....

box said...

jay, tell it like it is. well, with signing in, this is so much more manageable.

why do israelis feel they even have the right to come here and tell lebanese how to perceive the self-same aggression created by - the israelis!? and i don't mean all israelis, as there are some for peace. but the others - they have some real cajones to even show up here. can you even imagine doing this yourself? what kind of hate and superiority does this take? this behavior parallels the inherent flaw in their larger acts of aggression.

1earth said...

Your original ad hominem response was so typical of your kind. The noble savage... You are right, this debate is over.

I pray for mutual peace on both sides of the Lebanon and Israel border.

Suha said...

AP says Dahiyah being bombed again.

Jeffrey said...

I have little to add right now about the ongoing tragedy, but I will say two things about the public reasons for Hizbullah’s actions on Wed.

I don’t think that the scale of Israel’s assault is justified, but I can’t stand HA either.

Re: Lebanese Prisoners in Israeli Jails

Nasrallah wants Samir Kuntar to be released. While there might be some Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails who ought to be freed, Samir Kuntar is not one of them. In 1979 he murdered, point blank, three members of an Israeli family (plus a policeman). He invaded their apartment, looked them in the faces, and killed them. He killed the little girl by forcing a rifle butt into her skull.

Re: Getting Lebanese Released

Nasrallah rhetorically asked “if anyone knows a better way to [get Lebanese released], I’d like to hear it.”

Actually there is. In mid-2005 Israel released over 20 Jordanian prisoners, some of whom had committed deeds similar to Kuntar’s.

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=7640
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3054470,00.html

(note: the person making this post is an American Zionist)

naomba.com said...

in response to the slate article:

Lee Smith (the author of the article) has always framed his arguments in this way:

"Maybe she will go home with him, assuming he has his own place, and give herself to him for the first time. Or maybe she already has. Regardless, I bet that come morning, she, like every other unmarried Lebanese woman, will rise early to hurry home before her parents wake, lest she scandalize them, their family, and neighbors. ... [makes a grand metaphor about lebanon]"

and I have always objected to it -- it's a sort of create-grand-situation-from-clever-insight tactic that only 1) consistently reinforces incorrect ideas of the region and 2) always forms his arguement on a precarious (but stable-seeming) balance point of "An Observation." He wrote an article about the townhouse gallery in cairo once (i think he might have even been staying at our house) where "all egyptian artists" were abstracted from a scene of three guys sitting around making bad art from cigarette boxes... so condescending.

1earth said...

"Box" is appropriate name for you, you live in a box and see no further than how your actions affect you personally.

Jay said...

Box
It seems the jews on this site always retreat to the personal attacks. If ever you dont agree with them its fu-- you. no room for civil debate i guess. are you and your family okay?

box said...

israel's actions stand alone, and are the responsibility of israel alone - regardless of whoever it feels like blaming. i don't understand why israelis and israeli apologists feel comfortable coming here, after the havoc israel's wreaked on the sovereign nation of lebanon, to insist lebanese - still very much being injured by you - to acknowledge the significance of your own citizens' pain. have some respect - and if you don't - why not go somewhere where people support your aggression?

naomba.com said...

1earth:
i don't mean to be rude but could you perhaps take your invective somewhere else? plus, if anyone is using "ad hominem" debate -- i think that your use of "blind and ignorant" and "your kind" pretty much qualify. please go away; perhaps you can find a forum where people enjoy spitting up venom and then re-digesting it.

i will not be responding to any further comments of yours (maybe if everyone just ignores all these hostile, thoughtless israeli posters ('oh wait,' they say 'i'm not an israeli, i'm an american atheist!' -- ok and them too) all these people who would predicate their discussion on insensitivity and propoganda -- if we can ignore them and just carry on our own discussion they will go away.?)

Jay said...

I've got to go, perhaps tomorrow will bring better news. stay strong and know that we will servive despite the israeli aggression.
Peace

sub Rosa said...

suha, I'm an Israeli and I'm very sorry for the terrible tragedy in the south as I am about this war - it's terrible. I saw the pictures and wanted to cry. I also want my government to give answers about what happened there. However! I will not demonstrate against this war, for I support it. I know we have no other choice but to eradicate Hizballah, or at least hurt it very badly, until the good people of Lebanon throw them out!

I pray innocent Lebanese people wont get hurt, I don't hate you guys. But I hope the IDF will finnish the job, and help Lebanon get rid of Nasrallah, so we can all live in peace.

Jay said...

sub rosa,
one last post for me - its not just in the south as you wrote. you seem like a good person - please understand that what your government is doing is wrong.

box said...

how is yours, jay?

my family is ok, but i am not lebanese... although i have been talked to as "my kind" and called a "snake" and a "pig" and a "donkey" and an "islamofascist" because of hateful peoples' assumptions. what hate there is.

in addition for my heart bleeding for lebanon, i am against the policy of preemption. i am also against US aggression in the world - and i see this as a definite upscale of it. we in the US are taught that jews=persecuted people - tread lightly and ask no questions. what a shock it was to increasingly learn of israel's systematic, long-term domination and oppression of palestinians. but this action against lebanon tipped the scale - and now i'm learning of their long-term harrassment of lebanese; its disrespect of lebanon's borders (it seems israel disrespects any arab border); and its propaganda-backed villianization campaign re: hezbollah.

i feel we can't afford to allow the israeli/us-backed propaganda machine to work here - people in the US have been drawn to this site to learn about new events in lebanon, and it seems important to me to fight the hype.

thanks for your comment! :)

donj said...

The israelis think they have right to break international law and ignore international human rights. Any nation or person that opposes their actions are quickly tagged as a Nazi Sympathiser - which is pure bullshit. It's disgusting to watch Israel oppressing and crushing their neighbours decade after decade... and lets face it the only reason they doing this is to enlarge the jewish state. They can do what they want because the US has given them a licence to bully and kill they neighbours at will. The so called western 'War On Terror' has been embraced by Israel to terrorize it's own neighbours. It's disgusting and people in the EU are sick and tired of Israel making the Middle East into the unstable enviromnent it has become.

Alien Pundit said...

May God protect the people of Lebanon against the evildoers from Israel!

nuggs said...

I pray for victory over Hezbollah. If Israel doesn't destroy Hezbollah, nobody will, you obviously can't or won't. It is a shame Lebanon may have to be destroyed in the process. Hezbollah has declared war on Isreal. Israel has declared war on Hezbollah, and unfortunately the country that harbors them will be harmed. There will be civilian casulities on both sides but it can not stop until somebody is victorious. I honestly believe that if Israel pulls out now Hezbollah will gain strength. Iran will send more troops into Lebanon and Islamic law will tighten on Lebanon like a noose. I think if Hezbollah wins, Iran will rebuild your country and sieze more power in your government. If Israel wins we should help rebuild your country and we don't want to run your government. To me, an Israeli victory seem the better. Do you honestly think that if Israel stopped now Hezbollah would not scream victory and get even more support for beating back the Israeli invasion?

But of course this is not a valid point on this blog right? It is not even worthy of discussion. It is just propaganda right?

box said...

donj - this american is with you. in fact - plenty of americans stand with an international collective of human beings against this aggression. our government has been out of our control for quite some time, unfortunately.

donj said...

hey nuggs... an old irish saying.... you are speaking through your arsehole

Jeffrey said...

"it seems israel disrespects any arab border"

This is not true. The borders with Egypt and Jordan aren't warzones. The border w/ Lebanon is a warzone because HA makes it so.

Suha said...

Sub rose,

There is no way the IDF can extricate Hizbllah from Lebanon in a short time. If this is the goal, then this is going to end up to be a bloody and protracted conflict. If the conflict goes on for too long, then the seething tensions inside Lebanon will most probably explode into a civil war (again).

Please understand that Hezbollah will grow stronger in a civil war. They have an excuse to keep their weapons and solidify themselves as the real authority when the central government collapses, as it normally does in a civil war. It is only peace that will disarm them.
Having said that, what on earth does bombing a van loaded with refugees have to do with extricating Hezbollah? Violence breeds more violence. Why is this so difficult to understand?

box said...

"It is a shame Lebanon may have to be destroyed in the process."

yes, you are right. this is not a valid point on this blog, asshole. this is not a valid attitude in a civilized society. your statement seems so - flippant, and yet, loaded in it, is the destruction of a country that doesn't even affect you. i don't know if you recognized the title - it's "lebanese bloggers." if you don't support the lebanese, maybe you should go somewhere else to talk about how lebanon might need to be destroyed, and what-not.

that you don't know this is in bad taste is mind-boggling.

donj said...

hi box - ya it saddens me bush is still in power but hey he only has 2 years left! hopefully the next us government with end the close relationship with israel. but until such time lebanon and the palestines my prayers are with you.

nuggs said...

donj,

Thanks for the personal attack there. Why address any of my points, when you can just insult me.

box said...

jeffrey - seems israel has trouble with several of their borders.

check this out:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41049000/jpg/_41049716_leaflet_203afp.jpg&imgrefurl=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4463096.stm&h=152&w=203&sz=12&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=TwRoowOQKEMPdM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3Disrael%2Bleaflet%2Blebanon%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

or let me just tell you about the angel israel. halo and all, around november 25, 2005, an israeli found themselves over the border in lebanon. "a civilian" - yeah, right. this AFTER israeli planes had decided lebanon was their place to drop leaflets of propaganda re: hezbollah. not for nothing, hezbollah are lebanese... but tough shit, b/c israel doesn't like 'em, so they harrass them at the lebanese border. the story continues.

israel - you don't have a leg to stand on, and nothing you say will change my mind - so save your breath.

sub Rosa said...

Suha, I guess you're right :(
Antuan Lahed was interviewed in a newspaper here yesterday, and he said: "don't attack Lebanon, attack Syria. It's not the fault of the Lebanese people". I partly agree, but I think more could have been done to restrict Hizballah. The last thing I want is another civil war in Liban, because I know the Shiite zealots will be stronger (with the help of Iran and Syria). But at the moment I don't see what other choice we have than attack Lebanon.

I just hope our army will do all it can to NOT hurt the parts that are not identified with Hizballah.

Stay safe, with hope for better times soon.

nuggs said...

Box I said it was a shame. It was not flippant. I think it can be done without destroying Lebanon. I hope it can be done. But it is a war and shit is going to get blown up. Shit is being blown up on the Israeli side, people are dying there too. Calling me an asshole is understandable, I am sure you hate all jews right now. I missed the sign on the front of the blog saying that only anti-israelis can post.

Honestly quit reading hate into my posts. Do you think Hezbollah will gain strentgh if Israel stops now?

lubnan3amtibki said...

the only analogy i can think of that resembles what is going on is the following:
Trying to save a woman from an abusive relationship by killing most of her family and his while he is lying in bed somewhere with his mistress iran :(

sub Rosa said...

Jay, Lebanon should not pay the price for intervention of other countries. But unfortunatly it has been doing that for half a century. That's what really pisses me off. Why should the most modern, progressed and beautiful country in the middle east pay? where is the intl community? you can talk about Israel, but what about Syria? and Iran?

My friends, regardless of what you think, Israel is democracy, not a perfect one, but a democracy in which Arabs have rights more than anywhere else in the Mid-East. Unlike in the Arab countries, where people are educated to hate us and be affraid of us (because the regimes need an excuse to remain dictatorial), we in Israel are not educated to hate or fear you guys.

I know Israel could have been a close alley to Lebanon because these are two countries that are rather alike, and also share some interests. unfortunatly that is not the reality. maybe one day :(

donj said...

hey nuggs next you'll be be calling me a nazi.... nuggs all you israelis sound the same - the same rhetoric and 'oh we're so oppressed' attitude. You want a taste of what its like to be oppressed or under siege... go to the gaza strip, or you go sleep in beriut tonight. I'm not claiming to be an expert on middle eastern politics but i'm so sick and tried of israeli aggrogance and disregard for other nations borders and people. As I citizen of the EU I'm well pissed off that EU funded projects in the Lebanon like bridges etc are casually blown up by F16's given to your government as gifts from the US to 'defend' yourselves from terrorists. It's bullshit - hasn't Lebanon suffered enough yet???

When will Israel feel they have got justice / revenge... when Beruit is levelled... and then you guys would probably start on Syria... then hey why not have a go off Egpyt again for old times sake! Somebody has to say enough is enough... and I just hope the EU will put pressure on Israel to stop this endless futile violence on innocent Lebanese civilians!

crosspatch said...

The attacks against the ships were apparently Iranian supplied radar guided anti-ship missiles. If you desire to reduce that threat, you eliminate the radars that guide them. Lebanese resources have been apparently hijacked by Iran and Hezbollah and so those resources are being eliminated.

What I believe is more important is for people to get a clear understanding of what is happening. This is not like the old days. If the problem is approached as similar incidents have been in this past, this will drag out even longer. If the people of Lebanon desire long term peace, it would be in their interest to eliminate armed elements of political parties, eject the foreigners assisting those elements, and eject those parties from the government until such time that they disarm. A country can have only one military and one policy. When you accept several military forces with different policies, you accept mayhem. This notion that somehow the people of Lebanon are powerless in all of this is what bothers me most. No, they are not. They simply lack the will at this point to exercise their power. When their fear the loss of their country more than the loss of their own life, nothing will stop them.

box said...

"I just hope our army will do all it can to NOT hurt the parts that are not identified with Hizballah."

subrosa, you can save your hopes - already violated.

nuggs - what are you even doing here, trying to convince those you support killing that it's for their own good? you don't think that deserve a hearty "fuck off"?

as for the loaded phrase: i don't hate "all jews" - or any jews. don't mix your terrorist nation's actions with others' racist persecution of the past. that is profane to history.

i am done with israel.

nuggs said...

I think a better analogy would be neighbors. One has a vicious dog that is constantly running into the neighbors yard and biting the family. The neighbor asks the other neighbor to control the dog, to get rid of the dog. The neighbor is afraid to kick the dog out some of the family likes the dog. The police tell the neighbors they have to get rid of the dog and still they do nothing or can't do anything. Finally the bitten neighbor comes over to kill the dog and the dog runs and hides in the house. The house gets tore up while the neighbor tries to kill the dog. Meanwhile the dogs puppies still attack the neighbors children.

Jeffrey said...

Re: Israeli borders.

Jordan = calm
Egypt = calm
Syria = respected

The Lebanese border before 1970 = calm and respected. A bee didn't even cross.

crosspatch said...

One additional point. Someone on one of the blogs mentioned that there are a million Lebanese who support Hezbollah. I say that means Hezbollah is doomed, then, because that would leave some 3 million who don't support it, and those people have an army. As soon as they get the will to use it, the problem will be solved and life can get back to normal. Israel is apparently doing the job of the Lebanese army for Lebanon.

crosspatch said...

"I just hope our army will do all it can to NOT hurt the parts that are not identified with Hizballah"

That is an important part that people are not understanding. As long as Hezbollah is part of the government, there is no such thing as parts that are only identified with Hezbollah. You would be wise, in my personal opinion, to eject Hezbollah from the government and charge their members of parliament and cabinet with treason.

kato said...

@crosspatch: i guess the lebanese government didnt have the right measures to disarm all the armed parties. but they cant admit it, coz it would mean that they dont have fully control over the country, and thus strengthen these parties again.

and there is no proper leb army.

Shmulik said...

Donj I must say you simply don't know what you are talking about. It's so easy to sit in Europe and criticize Israel. Your civilians are not being murdered and your nation wasn't attacked so many times. By the way Should I list the number of atrocities and human right violations that EU members have committed?? You accuse us of the suffering in the Gaza strip for example, but do you know we have withdrawn from there (and gotten a Qassam rocket barrage to thank for it)?? Do you know why was the Gaza strip occupied?? If you don't know what you are talking about please shut-up. If on the other hand you wish to learn the Israeli POV to you. I will gladly explain (not that our POV is the absolute truth).

nuggs said...

donj,
I don't think you are a nazi. We may all seem to sound the same because that is our point of view. Just as the Irish all sounded the same when they were oppressed by the british.

box I don't support killing you. I support killing Hezbollah, but I know some of you will be killed in the process. Some of our civilians will be killed too. I hate the killing of civilians on both sides, but I understand it is going to happen. I know many Israeli children will die and many Lebanese children will die. It is not possible to fight a war and not get civilians killed. If the casulities figures were reversed and Israel had lost over 100 civilians and Lebanon only 15, I would still think we should try to destroy Hezbollah. Do you support Hezbollah? I hate them, and from what I get the owners of this blog hate them.

box said...

yeah - except hezbollah was in the neighbor's yard.

let me improve on your scenario, nuggs. you are israel. the dog is hezbollah. the neighbor is lebanon.

you are a total jerk to your neighbor. you hang out at the fence and shout at them. you move the fence over into their yard, closer to their house, and continue shouting. you go inside their fence, and keep bitching, telling them how they need to treat you.

they get a guard dog. that keeps you out of their side, but the fence is in the wrong place. you go to court. the city decides where the fence will be, and moves it back to its rightful line.

you decide you don't like the guard dog - because then you can't harrass your neighbor... so you push the city to have the dog put to sleep, saying it's dangerous after provoking it continually. the city says ... "ok" ... but doesn't really care that much, because they know you by name, you're such a problem person. they hate seeing you walk in the door.

now, after a time of provoking the neighbor and provoking the dog - the dog gets in your yard. doesn't do much - but takes something back with them. you want it back. so - you do the only thing you CAN do! with the neighbors inside, you set fire to their house.

israel can go to.

sub Rosa said...

crosspatch, it's not that easy. Hizballah represents the shiites, who are the strongest group today in Lubnan. The Maronites are weakening, and so are the other more advanced and moderate ethnic groups. It's part of the tragedy of Lebanon.
I was refering to quarters of Beirut where Hizballah supporters reside and where weapons are being hid. They should be hit. the same goes for parts of Baalbeck and to places where the Syrians still have a strong hold. I know the Israeli army and leadership is trying to avoid hurting other groups in Lebanon, although some infrastructures are common - like the airport, and others are paying the price. I trust no further damage to other grous will be made, because most Israelis understand that most Lebanese are not to blame and certainly should not suffer because of Iran's Hizballah.

box said...

can the pro-israelis please leave this site?
this isn't the place for israelis, or israeli sympathisers, to casually strategize from their sofas as lebanese get killed by israelis. what assholes.

really - go away.

nuggs said...

box,
I actually like your analogy, it is better than mine. I disagree, but it is good. It does show your sides view perfectly. It seems to support Hezbollahs presence in Lebanon. I don't feel Israel stood at the fence and provoked the dog. I think the dog did the provoking, and I think Iran and Syria feed the dog and train the dog and give the dog its commands.

sub Rosa said...

Box, i think you belong in a hate site. try www.blutundboden.com/forum/ or www.skadi.net

I'm assuming you're just a kid, so I will just ignore you. debil.

Shmulik said...

Box you have made a nice analogy but there is something I simply don't understand- do you honestly claim the Hizbollah has NOT attacked and killed inside the Israeli border in the last 6 years (civilians and soldiers)??

sub Rosa said...

Shmulik, he's not interested in talking to you. You're a murderer, don't you know? he's a hater like Nasrallah, don't dignify him with a response.

donj said...

shmulik... i'm irish... we may have had peace in ireland for over 10 years, but the scars of the '40 years of the troubles' are still very raw in the south of ireland. is israel looking for a medal or gold star from a partial withdrawal from a tiny area of palestine? so shmulik please don't patronise me about sitting snugly in europe. Can you name the last time in the last 60 years an EU state has blanket bombed a neighbouring country because a rogue political party kidnapped a few soldiers? I didn't think you could. So shmulik until israel can look the world in the eye and say we've given up the bully/rogue state tactics.. please don't come on here accusing anyother state atrocities and human right issues!

Robohobo53 said...

Sure box. I will refrain from commenting. Seems you cannot take civil discourse. I have read your posts and you appear to be a Leftist.

I pray the US retires from world affairs for a year and withdraws all money from foreign aid. All.

And quit calling us to help you do the things you cannot accomplish as functioning adults in the world community.

Color this conservative......gone!

nuggs said...

"can the pro-israelis please leave this site?"

Box,
Fine I will leave for a while. Give you some time to rant about how blood thirsty Israel is. I am sure that will lead to much more understanding between the two sides. I thought the common enemy was Hezbollah, but I can see that you seem to support Hezbollah. To you, I am sure they share none of the blame for this war. By all means continue supporting them, it has worked so well so far.

sub Rosa said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Shmulik said...

Donj you simply don't know very much about history don't you??
here is a partial list for you:
1)France in Algiers - check the stories about routine torture and ask the Algiriens if all their villages are still there.
2) Great britain in Malaya and Yemen - they didn't allow reporters to the war-zones, I wonder why.
3) When you admit Turkey to the EU please ask the Kurds what they think (or the Armenian for that matter.
If you want me to talk about the Balkans, China or Russia just say so.
Please tell me when was the last time a European nation has fought a major war with "clean" tactics and proportionate force?? (Falklands perhaps)

lubnan3amtibki said...

@box- good analogy, def better than mine! and right on!

box said...

"I thought the common enemy was Hezbollah"

why think that? have you been brainwashed? drinking the koolaid?

ISRAEL has INVADED A SOVEREIGN NATION and HAS BEEN PUMMELING IT FOR 4 DAYS STRAIGHT.

i don't allow grown adults to claim "they made me do it." that's the language of children.

sub Rosa said...

Israeli Air force attacking Al Manar TV station. This is the third attack so far on the Hizbullah station.

donj said...

typical of the israeli mindset... come onto a lebanese blogger webpage and spread your propaganda... do i need to say any more??? surely there's an israeli website you can go to log onto and you guys can all sing your own praises and compliment yourselves on your knowledge of middle eastern politics... nobody will disagree with you there... you guys might even be happy! come to think of it... you could always try pulling all you troops back behind your borders, close the borders and do what civilised nations do... make money, go to church, play sports, enjoy the finer things in life... maybe the jews will be finally happy? i didn't think so.. it's much more fun to bomb and oppress and bulldoze your neighbours isn't it?

box said...

HAHA ... "color this conservative - gone!"

don't let the door hit ya.

and - subrosa - why are you sending me to, what i assume, are german-based jewish hate sites? what hypocrisy. this is your "human shield?" israel thinks it's going to slide by for fear of the appearance of jewish persecution.

never mind that it's PROFANE to use jewish people persecuted by germans as an excuse to obliterate a nation.

disgusting.

box said...

"come to think of it... you could always try pulling all your troops back behind your borders, close the borders and do what civilised nations do... make money, go to church, play sports, enjoy the finer things in life..."

donj - fat chance, sadly.

lens said...

To anyone in london, or who knows people in london, please circulate that there is a demonstration to protest the war on lebanon. sunday july 16, 12 pm, st margaret st, parliament square. thank you.

Shmulik said...

Donj why won't you answer our questions. You have challanged us to behave like a "normal" nation and we show you that
1)"normal" nations commit horrible acts in war
2)We did exactly as you have asked and since 2000 even the UN has admutted that we are on our side of the border. Since than we have ben repeatedly attacke from Lebanese soil.
Instead of condeming ne for being Israeli (guilty as charged) try to explain why I am wrong, try refute the examples we have given you.I am logged on this forum exactly because I can hear the "other-side". Will you demonize me or hear me out (even though we might disagree)?

Shmulik said...

Sorry for the spelling I am dead tired.

crosspatch said...

"Hezbollah must redeploy north of the Litani River. It must surrender its rocket arsenal to the Lebanese army, which must take up positions along the border with Israel," Justice Minister Haim Ramon told Israeli television.

"If these conditions are met, Israel will agree to a ceasefire," the minister said.


Sounds reasonable to me.

sub Rosa said...

know what donj, you've just proven to me what I wrote before and erased. so here, again, is the post:

donj, believe me - shmuel is not patronizing. you want patronizing? here goes: it seems to me you have very little understanding of our history and situation. reading about it in newsweek or watching the news is not enough. reading about it int E. Said books or even Benny Moris, is not enough either (i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt you've heard of them).


It's as if I would tell you: you're winning Northern Ireland by terrorizing the Protestants... it's more complex than that, isn't it? (although I must admit, I prefer the Protestants over you guys)

I think like many other Europeans, you have a dubble standard when it comes to Israel. I don't see you guys attacking Russia (chechnia), China (Tibet), France (Ivory coast) and others. I wonder why...

I think the leftist Europeans support the Arabs because they simply hate Israel. whyu not admit it? It's not a rational hatered, but what hatered is rational? I think if you squeeze a Euro-leftist hard enough, you'll just find the common antisemite. sure, you guys like to cover yourselves with the liberal facade and peace loving statements, you like to appear as protectores of the poor Palestinians or Lebanese, but you don't really care about them. you just use them to hate, and in that respect you're worse than the extreme right (at least with them what you see is what you get).

Let me just finnish off with these words: mind your own damn bussiness, and stop sticking your nose into our affairs. I think you (Europeans) have caused enough damage here in the Midlle East, in Africa and in Asia. Leave us alone!

programmer craig said...

Air attacks on the city of Tripoli

Tripoli is the main recruiting center for Jihadi fucks bound for Iraq. I know this to be true because I saw it on CNN! Interviews with loud-talking unemployed badasses who want to be martyrs. Soon, God willing, they will be.

Hey, I made this comment in an old post that nobody will ever read now, so I'll make it again here.

Deliver Nasrallah's head in a sack, along with the two Israeli soldiers, and I bet this can all end today. What do you think? Is that too much to ask? If you are going to do it, though, I suggest you do it soon. It seems Israel's military will be fully mobilized and ready to go by sometime tomorrow or monday.

sub Rosa said...

nu really shmulik, the only response you'll get from donj is what he heard in the leftist textbook he got in his collage. I prefer banging my head into the wall, it'll be more productive.

As if the Lebanese don't have enough problems, they get the "support" from those bozos, that just make them appear worse. tragic.

programmer craig said...

box,

ISRAEL has INVADED A SOVEREIGN NATION and HAS BEEN PUMMELING IT FOR 4 DAYS STRAIGHT.

Yeah. That shit tends to happen, when you invade your neighbors and kidnap their and kill their soldiers, and when you launch high explosive missiles into their residential neighborhoods. Did you have a question? You say "sovereign nation" as if that's supposed to confer some kind of immunity or something? Israel is a sovereign nation too.

Sned Hezbollah up to kidnap and kill Syrian soldiers, and lob missiles by the dozen into Syrian towns. See what happens. Go ahead. I dare ya. There wouldn't be a peep out of anybody when Syria invaded. The only reason there's a fuss about the current situation is it's ISRAEL who is daring to fight back when they are attacked! Damn Jews.

sub Rosa said...

Craig -
sad, but true...

Shmulik said...

Sub Rosa I really want to get through to donj wuth our truth and open his mind a little. I understand that the Lebanese here are under our bombs (however justified our incursion) and probably won't listen, but I really want to hear a "neutral" European explain himself. Who knows, maybe he will convince me?

sub Rosa said...

I have experience with people like dunj, trust me - you're wasting your time. I don't care about them, they don't interest me and I know they will hate me no matter what.
The Lebanese are our neighbors, we have much more in common with them, and I refuse to believe they are all zealots. I also don;t expect them to understand why we're bombing them, but I need them to know that it's not out of hatered or that we don't care about their lives. It's because we feel we don't have a choice, and we're sorry it had to come this way.

Anyway, I'm tired (almost 4:00 a.m in Israel). Laila Tov - Masaa al-khair (or more like Sabach al-khair already)...

donj said...

no worries for the wrong spelling... i'm sleepy myself! I just can't get into the israeli mindset where it's considered normal behaviour to bulldoze a palestian farmers house to make a new jewish settlement, or to send tanks into the jenin(spelling!) refugee camp and massacre hundreds of civilians - the same civilians who the week before may have been given an hour to leave their ancestral home before it was bulldozed. People in the EU cannot understand how normal everyday israelis like yourself allow you government act in such a babaric way. As I side before, I'm Irish, and my parents and grandparents have some horrific stories of british brutality during ' The Troubles' but compared to what Israel does to Palestines and the Lebanese they were very minor incidents. Surely the Israeli government must realise that these bullyboy tactics don't work... and when rogue political parties such as Hamas and Hizbullah kidnap soldiers, bombing innocent civilians in a neighbour nation isn't going to solve anything. Why not just have a measured military response attacking Hizbulla offices etc. Bombing up bridges, airports and other civilian targets isn't going to get Israel support in the world.. well apart from the US surprise surprise. If Israel was a bit more diplomatic the world might like you guys a bit more. This dual approach of the peace process in one hand and heavy-handed tactics in the other hand just doesn't work. Peaceful means of finding common ground is the only way to solve your problems with all your neighbouring nations.

sub Rosa said...

shmulik, did you see his response? once again he proved me right. :P

"the israeli mindset where it's considered normal behaviour to bulldoze a palestian farmers house to make a new jewish settlement" - ROFLMAO. you know what? actualy it's sad, but Iv'e heard that dogma B4, and there is very little you can do about it (except invite him to Israel and show him how it really is, and how its a little more complex than what he thought it is). I, personaly, don't think it's worth the effort. We have so many haters in Ire and Europe, we'll have another one...

donj said...

must be very frustrating for you to be the only nation in the world to see what really happens in the middle east sub rosa.. gosh plenty of other nations are lining up to give a different slant on middle eastern politics since your country was plopped down on top of a couple of other countries. we'll never agree which is ok by me... so as you said yourself : actualy it's sad, but Iv'e heard that dogma B4

1earth said...

donj, 70 people died in Jenin, 23 Israeli soldiers, the rest militants. Go to wikipedia, search for jenin massacre the sources are all there. Why perpetuate propaganda myths like that unless you have a blind anti-Israel agenda no matter what Israel does.


As for the Israel caring about world opinion? That isn't going to happen. 2000 years of persecution culminating in the holocaust... Israel can't afford to care about that guilty world's opinion. Israel exists so Jews no longer live and die at the whim of the global opinion. Global opinon that as you demonstrated, is gullible to propaganda.

trueleb said...

Thanks donj for truthful words. The Israelis think that they are entitled to everything in the world. The world calls it Zionism and it is the most despicable form of racism on the face of the earth.With an attitude like that, Israel will never rest until the end of time. I just love that " poor little Israel card" they play. You might be able to fool some hick in red state America, but you can't fool the rest of the world. Everybody knows America is in Iraq because of Israel. May God bless all Lebanese, Muslims, Christians, Druze etc....

Shmulik said...

Donj I am sorry but I have to say that I think you simply don't know the truth.
Let me give you some examples:
-In jenin (where militants were planing terror attacks against Israel) 53 Palestinians have died, half of them militants and 13 israeli soldiers. Although it is regrettable you must understand this is a record low for urban warfare (check Fallujah or Grozny for example where indeed thousnds were killed). you under stand we could indeed kill thousnds with artillery and fighter-jets without losing soldiers at all??
- We can argue for hours about our settelments but they were built were no Palestinians civilians lived. Indeed It's true we have bulldozed many houses but almost all of these cases were eighter for a security reason (tunnels for smuggling explosives in the basement or places where Israeli soldiers were sniped from) or as a punishment for Palestinian terroists (BTW our supreme-court ruled this illegal and it is not being done.
I can go on and on and if you will ask I will gladly do so. I am not claiming we are angels but we are not the devils you think we are.

crash said...

I'm referring to one of your older posts about arabs not helping lebanon:

I'm not a lebanese, and I'm devasted to what's happening right now. Nevertheless, lets face it. All the arab countries CAN'T help themselves! It's not that we don't want to, it's simply a matter of capabilities. A second thing is that Hizbulla do not represent Lebanon. Even the Lebanese gov. would like them to be out of the picture, but since the hizb is stronger, they can't.

Question is: Howcome whenever the Hizbulla leader is on their channel it's a still picture and not live?! He preaches for everyone to be strong and FIGHT for lebanon.... why doesnt he fight?! I'm sorry, but all I'm thinking right now is: that cowardly bastard!

He acts childishly, rebeliously and the lebanese are suffering while he's hiding somewhere safe! He doesnt care about Lebanon as much as he cares about playing "hero" - or getting labeled by that name at least. If he did care about lebanon he would have handed those 2 soldiers in as soon as he realized the POWs aren't going to be traded in. He allowed this to happen, and HE declared open war! The fuckin' fagot has the nerve to speak up for the country when he doesn't represnt it. It sickens me! And what sickens me even more is Syria's support to these bunch of hoodlems and the shitty way they're treating escapee's at the borders - no wonder the world hates them!

May God be with Lebanon, and to hellw ith Hizballah! I just hope this whole thing ends SOON!

Shmulik said...

Maybe my numbers on Jenin are not accurate, but are not terribly off.

1earth said...

shmulik or mine, I don't know. The fact is the hundreds dead claim is a myth. The Palestinians staged fake funerals. In one funeral the "corpse" fell off the board he was being carried on, then stood back up and climbed back up to complete the funeral procession.

donj said...

yes i agree to hell with hizballah, but israel has to calm down before this escalates and gets out of control. shmulik I respect your views and appreciate the fact you admit you're not angels... no state is an angel. the whole middle eastern regions sadden me... all the middle eastern states are been used a pawns by the US - it all boils down to oil.

lubnan3amtibki said...

1earth- you watch too many movies. Loved the movie wag the dog.it was so accurate. I'm sure israel and US have better special effetcs than any arab country does. But nice try.

lubnan3amtibki said...

donj- good point but let me add, oil and water!

Shmulik said...

Donj has it occured to you that your own nation uses oil?? Has it occured to you that the fact our image in Europe is so distorted is part of the price you pay for arab oil (just an idea)?? It's very easy to say damn Hizbollah but who will protect our borders from them, the EU? UN? US? even the Lebanese goverment has repeatedly refused to do so (after several cross border raids and a UN resolution 1559). Who should we talk to?
For 6 years we have talked and only recieved terror from Lebanon. Should we continue to suffer so the Lebanese will have the peace they deny us (by Hizballah)?

RAA said...

It is amazing how many Israelis bloggers feel the need to post on this site. We can see what you are doing your action is speaking much louder that your words now. This level of utter ruthlessness and callousness displayed by Israel is the likes what the world haven't seen since 1940. Can you explain the point of bombing a grain silo at a sea port anything other than being a wicked vicious deed. Just remember that Israel is the only country on earth that still holds an entire population in virtual prison. Killing and murdering unarmed women and children with impunity has become the MO of the IDF.
No one is arguing that HA is at fault here, but this campaign of destruction will not realize it’s goals. Unfortunately, this Israeli action will further strengthen HA and weaken the democratic system of Lebanon which is not in the best interest of Israel long term security. In time, Lebanon would have politically resolved the HA disarmament issue without risking another civil war. One cannot figure out the wisdom or the rational of this misguided policy, Just as Israel destroyed the PA for not controlling HAMAS, they are now trying to destroy Lebanon for not being able to control HA to their liking. Is Israel behavior is one is of pure ignorance caused by a blinding hatred or Israel feeds on terror and turmoil around it to survive. True peace is Israel number one enemy, it is much scarier to them than war. Israel knows very well that HA is an instrument of Syria and IRAN, so why not attack SYRIA and IRAN? Apparently, It is much gratifying to attack bridges, hospitals and power and water stations just as they do in the WB and GAZA.

donj said...

yes ireland probably uses .00001% of the worlds oil... there's only 4 million people in ireland. even the US government has stopped saying it attacked iraq due to the 'war on terror'.. the US obiviously invaded irag to control the oil in iraq. good night shmulik.. i hope you and your loved ones keep safe til me chat again.

lubnan3amtibki said...

raa very well said...thank you!

Shmulik said...

Raa you accuse Israel of ignorance but it is clear you don't know the first thing about Israeli society.
Let me try to answer some of your points
1) You say actions are stronger than words, If so, where is your action against the Hizbollah?? For 6 years they have built an entire terroist army (even by European defenitions) inside your house despite our an the UN warning you. How many years would it take for you you talk Hizballah into disbanding? 5? 10? never??
how many Israeli should we suffer to die in Hizballah's hands before you act?? BTW after only few days of our counter-attack already Seniora has started talking about deploying your army in the south.
2) Are we afraid of true peace?? Ask Jordan and Egypt (We have lost a lot of territory for peace, not in war which we tend to win, but on the negotiating table)
I can refute more of your points if you just listen, I can also shamfully say where we have made mistkes and comitted crimes, if you will just listen.

Shmulik said...

Thanks Donj I will gladly debate with you here or by any other venue. BTW I wasn't referring to Ierland but to Europe in my oil remark

lubnan3amtibki said...

well has "peace" with jordan and egypt really brought security and safety to the region? look at the bombings! So how will destroying lebanon get rid of "terrorist" organizations. The actions of israel are creating more groups and more nasrallahs. So i really don't see what positive benefits these massacres in lebanon are bringing to the region.

LebanseStudent said...

I never thought I would live to see this happening AGAIN to Lebanon. Mish 7aram ?

Shmulik said...

the "peace" with Jordan and Egypt has brought a hugh advantage to... Egypt and Jordan. Egypt for example has gaind the Sinai back, and while It's economy is still crap it's better than when they had to grovel to the soviets for every tank and bullet they could spare. Do you think the Egyptian did this because they love us so much? off course not, it was good for them. About the attack on lebanon after 6 years of talk you have done nothing about the Hizballah, tell me the truth did you even care about their attacks on Israel? but suddenly after 4 days Seniora has already began talking about deploying the Lebanese army in the border. Can you blame us for using force when you havn't listened to our words?

Shmulik said...

well, good night.

lubnan3amtibki said...

yes i can blame you for using force, do you expect me to thank you. "peace" makes headlines, but look deep into these countries and you'll see that their puppet governments are going to explode and what is going to replace them is scarier than anything you have seen. I'm objectively trying to see how such massacres can be good for the region. if you truely want the best interest of the entire reagion, not simply israel's best interest then you should think a lot further than your precious northern border. You should work from the indide out and not from the outside in.

lubnan3amtibki said...

indide=inside typo

stateroom said...

Here are two authoritative examples, quoted from statements by high-ranking PLO and Arab League officials:

(1) It is only for tactical reasons that we carefully stress our Palestinian identity, for it is in the national interest of the Arabs to encourage a separate Palestinian identity to counter Zionism: The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the ongoing battle against Israel. After we will have attained all our rights in the whole of Palestine, we must not postpone, even for a single moment, the reunification of Jordan and Palestine.
(Zohair Mohsin, then head of PLO Military Operations Dept. and member of PLO Executive Council, in interview for Dutch newspaper Trouw, 31 March 1977)

(2) Speaking in an interview on Radio Monte Carlo on 26 November 1979, the secretary-general of the Arab League, Shazli al-Klibi, said, quote: -:

The Arab leaders, despite the differences in their approaches, are united in their view that the confrontation with Zionism will not end with the establishment of an independent Palestinian state in a few years' time. On the contrary, the confrontation will continue, with the marshaling of the military, economic and political resources of the Arab states, in order to defeat Zionism. Unquote

http://mideasttruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4920

programmer craig said...

This level of utter ruthlessness and callousness displayed by Israel is the likes what the world haven't seen since 1940.

WTF, over?

Did you just fall off the turnip truck, or what? Ask some of the Sudanese refugees in the camps about ruthlessness and callousness, why don't you?

Do you think your blatantly dishonest commentary is helpful?

How many Iraqis died in falluja the first 3 days of the assult in November 2004? You see, I give you a chance to talk about the other people you hate, now, the Americans. Because I'm a kind and considerate guy.

lubnan3amtibki said...

"The Arab leaders, despite the differences in their approaches, are united in their view that the confrontation with Zionism will not end with the establishment of an independent Palestinian state in a few years' time. On the contrary, the confrontation will continue, with the marshaling of the military, economic and political resources of the Arab states, in order to defeat Zionism."
uhhmm arab leaders and united is an oxymoron. if that was true then the world would be a different place as we speak.

stateroom said...

No oxymoron at all. Historical precedence exists. Even muslims in places like Indonesia and Malaysia are united on that - Israel must be eliminated

naomba.com said...

anyone had luck getting through on landlines to brummana region from outside of leb?
chris

lubnan3amtibki said...

stateroom, the people maybe but not the leaders. Each one has his own agenda!

stateroom said...

lubnan3amtibki said...
stateroom, the people maybe but not the leaders. Each one has his own agenda!

Agenda or not, there is a common desire to eliminate Israel. I don`t blame the politicians for making use of the people`s agenda.
It`s just that what is harvested is what will be sown.

stateroom said...

Nah. That wshould have been:
It`s just that what is harvested is what was sown.

RAA said...

Programmer Craig,
I think we can find couple of examples of ruthlessness to match, albeit, they won't be at the same grand scale. Regardless of the find, this it does not provide any absolution form the crime.
May I remind you that the American in Iraq did not destroy roads, bridges, power and water and pure civilian infrastructures, on the contrary. And the Sudanese are in brutal civil war as all civil wars in Africa and somewhere else. And let me give another shining example, Hafez Assad in mid 80 totally razzing HAMMA to teach the decedent a lesson- You ought to be proud you are in a good company.
My comment is brutally honest rather than dishonest. Tell me one reason why the Israeli are compelled to destroy a power and water station and please do not insult any one’s intelligence by saying to hamper HA form moving the prisoners. There have been lots of carnage in this world and can point to one bad thing after another, it is in not way makes it moral and right no matter how many times it happens.
I do understand justify a measured action against HA. But cannot comprehend this scales of wickedness.

stateroom said...

`Tell me one reason why the Israeli are compelled to destroy a power and water station`

In WW2 and many other conflicts, resources such as water, power etc are considered legitimate targets. It demoralizes the `other side` and can bring a quicker end to hostilities.

There`s a little bit of history here:
The Dams Raid
http://www.dambusters.org.uk/about.htm

programmer craig said...

raa,

May I remind you that the American in Iraq did not destroy roads, bridges, power and water and pure civilian infrastructures, on the contrary.

Yes we did. We knocked out power in Baghdad during the invasion, blew all the bridges except the ones we needed to advance, etc, etc, etc. That's SOP during an invasion. Speaking of which, expect to be invaded, based on what Israel is doing. Just for your info. That's what it looks lkike the Israelis are prepping for, to me.

I do understand justify a measured action against HA.

Good. I am glad you see that. Since you were honest, I will also be honest. If my country (the US) was willing to invade Lebanon to destroy Hezbollah, I would support that. In fact, I would re-enlist in order to particpate in the destruction of Hezbollah, even if it cost me my life. For what they did to my friends in 1983. I've said as much on this blog, in fact, a year or so ago. My opinion has not changed. Hezbollah must be destroyed. Utterly. SOmebody is going to get that job done. If it's not Lebanese, it will be Israelis. If teh Israelis cannot do it, we Americans will be there to do it sooner or later. We've got higher priorities at the moment, but Hezbollah is on the list. It's always been on the list.

I ask you though (in reagrads to Israel) - how do you propose Israel can destroy an organization as large, as well organized, and as well supported by a large portion of the population of Lebanon, with a "measured" attack? Do you really believe they could bomb a few Hezbollah buildings and kill a few militants, decalre victory, and withdraw? That would be a victory for Hezbollah, and you know it. And a victory for Syria and Iran. And it would be the END of Lebanon's new-found sovereignity. Hezbollah would have more power and influence than ever. Which is, I'm sure, the exact result they planned on having when they embarked on this episode.

In closing, I would like to apologize to all Lebanese (except Hezbollah and it's supporters) for my country not having the will to destroy Hezbollah when it was small and weak, in 1983.

SandHeeb said...

@Crash
Question is: Howcome whenever the Hizbulla leader is on their channel it's a still picture and not live?! He preaches for everyone to be strong and FIGHT for lebanon.... why doesnt he fight?! I'm sorry, but all I'm thinking right now is: that cowardly bastard!

Simple, if he goes on air it makes it easier for a Leb. Rifle or Israeli F16 to send him to "heaven" (a place where 70 real large men are waiting.. and he's the "virgin").. Which then instantly ends the war.. causes a peace agreement between Lebanon and Israel, opens both countries for tourism.. which then leads to the creation of Phoenician/Hebrew babies in mass quantities again for the first time in two millenia.. and thus causes a lasting peace..

Make love.. not war!

RAA said...

Programmer Craig,
Let's be clear here. No one is advocating for HA. HA represent a huge problem for Lebanon and is nothing but an instrument of IRAN and SYRIA and a serious impediment to Lebanon progress. If you are saying the only way to do is by destroying the entire country, I believe I would opt for another approach. The destruction in not limited to HA, our fear it will destroy the fragile government and deliver Lebanon back into Syria's hands. The whole sale destruction of the country is what we are talking about
You said: "You see, I give you a chance to talk about the other people you hate, now, the Americans. Because I'm a kind and considerate guy"
I say: Utter rubbish, my friend! you just don't understand that resenting death and destruction and looking for peaceful ways to resolve conflicts is not at all Anti-American. Again, thank for your consideration but you way off mark hare and too presumptuous
Also, you assumed that I am HA supporter – Again, you are utterly mistaken. I wish that the Lebanese army could decommission them tomorrow and rid the country form their BS.

programmer craig said...

raa, I never accused you of being a supporter of Hezbollah. If I believed that, I wouldn't even bother talking to you :)

The context of my comment about about hating Americans was my response to this:

This level of utter ruthlessness and callousness displayed by Israel is the likes what the world haven't seen since 1940.

I could not (and still can not) figure out a reason you would say something as historically inacurrate as that unless you hate Israel. And if you hate Israel that much, you by extension also hate America. Dunno. Something like that. It made sense to me at the time :)

Anyway... a request has been made that non-Lebanese stop commenting on this blog. I intend to honor that request. I don't have much to say anyway. Best wishes to you (all of you) - and I really mean that.