Just woke up. The airport's terminal has been hit this time around. The latest hits on Dahyeh led many to flee their homes and seek shelter in other parts of Beirut. More intensified hits in south Lebanon.
I am just angry because the airport is being hit beyond just its runways, which will take more than a week to repair. The airport, as noted by Jihad el-Khazen, the editor of al-Hayat daily, is Lebanon's "Achile's heel."
Many Lebanese have so much faith in the international community. My father, whose forever optimistic view of Lebanon is always contagious, keeps on saying that this offensive will not take long and that someone will intervene to stop all this.
But what if, just like 30 years ago, everyone turned their backs on Lebanon? We were left alone to fend for ourselves and ended up killing each other and destroying the innocense and beauty of a land...
Extreme fear mixed with streaks of optimism, but every time I go to sleep thinking that things will calm down, I only wake up to more tragic stories.
"Nobody knows how many rebellions, besides political rebellions, ferment in the masses of life which people earth."
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I don't know what to say except be safe!
I live in Canada and don't understand violence in this amount.
Why does this happen? In the name of religion? Why are so many people in danger for so few to be happy?
Canada takes the world stage!
(The dangers of government controled media, I suppose)
My thoughts are with the Lebanese people. Stay safe.
"Many Lebanese have so much faith in the international community. My father, who's forever optimistic view of Lebanon made me fall in love with it, keeps on saying that this offensive will not take long and that someone will intervene to stop all this."
This is the problem. Lebanon needs to solve its own problems, harboring (and incorporating into government) terrorist organizations among them.
I can only believe 10% of what the media has to say.. the rest, I figure, is Bull plop!
Let the truth be told!
I read some of Lazarus' posts and I'm left confused. Of course it is right to look at the injustice of death of innocents, but this knee-jerk blaming of Olmert for unintentional civilian deaths, rather than blaming Hesbollah who hides among them, smacks of a lack of moral discernment.
Perhaps it is time for Lebanon to live up to its ideals and remove Hesbollah from its midst.
Welcome back, Doha! We missed you.
Future TV: Olmert has informed Anan that the operation will not end before Hizballah is disarmed.
(15:23 Beirut time)
Wag the dog indeed!
In Defence of MarxismHomeAbout usContact usJoin UsOur HistoryLinksSitemapThe Middle East - The Explosion Has Come
By Alon Lessel in Israel
Thursday, 13 July 2006
This morning, Hezbollah militants attacked Israeli forces in the Lebanese border. The militants attacked two Israeli Hummer jeeps, wounded several soldiers, killed seven, and kidnapped two. Several Katyusha missiles were fired at several villages in the Upper Galilee.
We Marxists have been saying for a long time that the Middle East is a powder keg ready to explode. The contradictions are widespread, with the Israeli imperialist ruling class constantly provoking Iran, Syria, and the Palestinians in order to get an excuse to wage war against the people of the Middle East, so as to silence domestic opposition to its policies. A little over two weeks ago, Israel began a campaign of terror in the Gaza Strip, destroying bridges, knocking out power stations, and murdering civilians. There have been several clashes between Israeli forces and Palestinian fighters in which tens of Palestinians and Israeli soldiers have been killed.
The attack by Hezbollah was, despite preposterous claims by pro-imperialist commentators, in response to Israeli aggression in Gaza. No rational person could doubt this. As explained in past articles, the recent so-called "terrorist" attacks against Israel - in reality legitimate, if ineffective, guerrilla operations - were entirely provoked by Israeli aggression. Israeli forces have been targeting civilians while the Palestinian guerrillas had only attacked military targets. Hezbollah hasn't attacked Israel once since the pullout from South Lebanon by the Barak government in May 2000 up until this recent attack. To try and claim that these two things are completely unrelated is truly worthy of these reactionary propagandists.
In spite of all this, Israel took the opportunity to launch a massive assault against Lebanon, blaming the collaborationist, pro-American government for this attack. It is using the excuse that the Lebanese government is responsible for any attacks that are launched from its territory. Israel has divided Lebanon into several fire zones. Israeli naval and air forces, as well as ground forces, are "scanning" for Hezbollah agents - in reality attacking Lebanon and terrorizing the population.
It is becoming clear that much like in the case of Gilad Shalit, this kidnapping too could have been avoided. Again, the Israeli Defence Forces decided to sacrifice common soldiers in order to get an excuse to attack. Many are asking how did a small group of Hezbollah fighters manage to cross the border and ambush Israeli soldiers? Labour MK Yuli Tamir has already mentioned that there was prior knowledge that something like this could happen in an interview to Channel 2 News. Some left-wing commentators have mentioned that the generals might have allowed this attack not only to attack Lebanon but also to avert any further cuts to the defence budget (Several weeks ago, the defence budget was cut by half a million shekels - a tiny amount, although still opposed by Defense Minister Amir Peretz, who had previously promised to cut this budget in order to raise the welfare budget). Also, another question that has been raised is, why did Israeli forces only begin attacking hours after the kidnapping?
Hezbollah and Nasrallah's Speech
Hezbollah is an organization born out of popular resistance to the Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon in 1982. It is a reactionary organization, basing itself on an Islamic fundamentalist doctrine similar to that of the Iranian regime. It has been responsible for many acts of guerrilla warfare against the Israeli army in Southern Lebanon. Despite its reactionary ideology it has focused on guerrilla warfare (as opposed to terrorism) and has even condemned several terrorist attacks, including 9/11.
Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah leader, made a speech a short while ago [this is being written in the afternoon of the 12th of July]. He said that the attack's purpose was to force Israel to free several Lebanese prisoners held in Israel. He said that although Hezbollah is willing to make an exchange and to accept a cease-fire, it is also prepared to defend itself should Israel attack. He is not bluffing - Hezbollah is a powerful organization, rooted in the Southern Lebanese population, and can certainly fight the Israeli army.
Nasrallah is not a revolutionary and therefore did not appeal to the Israeli masses or to the masses in the rest of the world. He appealed to the Israeli government, to the European parliament, and to the Lebanese ruling class to form a "national government". His perspective is that of a nationalist and the sort of struggle that he wages is that of a petit bourgeois guerrilla and not of a proletarian movement. However, Hezbollah expresses the genuine anger of the Lebanese masses at the reactionary Israeli government and its repression of Palestinians. It did not attack civilians but soldiers. The moralistic indignation is out of place and is truly the work of hypocritical bourgeois reactionaries.
Nasrallah is quite willing to release the prisoners. Had the Israeli government actually cared for these common soldiers, it would be negotiating the release of prisoners with him as we speak. However, the Israeli government represents not the Israeli people but the Israeli bourgeois and its imperialist aspirations. It will attack, and Hezbollah will counter-attack, and the bloodbath will continue. Had Nasrallah appealed to the Israeli masses, he could have prevented this attack and even brought them to his side. As he represents not the Lebanese proletarian masses but petit bourgeois Islamic reactionaries, he will not do this either.
An 'Emergency Government': Bringing the Extreme Right In through the Backdoor
The conservative Likud party and the extreme right nationalist Israel Beiteinu took the initiative of proposing the formation of an "emergency government", a broad national government of sorts, which was warmly greeted by Kadima and right-wing Labour MKs. Likud Chairman Binyamin Netanyahu said that he prefers to support the government from the outside, however most Likud leaders said that they are willing to join the government. The semi-fascist NRP/National Union stated that it is willing to join the government unconditionally in return for massive action in Gaza and Lebanon.
The right wing is certainly scheming to corner the government or at least try and take it over in order to topple it and regain its lost power. There have been talks of firing Labour chairman Amir Peretz from his position as Defence Minister and replacing him with an ex-General, something that has caused many Labour right-wingers to favour this initiative as well, not to mention the Kadima leaders. If this succeeds then the Israeli ruling class will force an unpopular government on the Israeli masses. Although we Marxists acknowledge that the presence of social-democratic leaders in bourgeois governments is not beneficial, but harmful to the interests of the workers, we have no doubt that a government of the right wing and the extreme, semi-fascistic right, can only make matters worse.
Such a government would combine an aggressive foreign policy with an aggressive social policy, i.e. it would attack beyond the borders of Israel while continuing the onslaught on the social rights of workers in Israel. In the short term this could have a demoralising effect, but eventually it would clarify where the classes stand and would force the workers in Israel to come out fighting against their own class oppressors.
The most telling statement regarding this was from Israel Beiteinu chairman Avigdor Liberman. Liberman said that he is willing to enter the government and that he thinks that a government in the style of the one that was set up in 1967, prior to the Six Day War, should be formed. The subtext is clear: the Israeli ruling class is preparing an all out war of conquest.
A Way Out
While this article is being written, we are constantly receiving news regarding the situation. In every respect, recent events completely confirm our perspectives regarding the Middle East. The Israeli ruling class has gone to war in order to further repress both the Israeli workers and the Palestinian masses. The reactionary Arab regimes can only help it by issuing more provocative statements. They are incapable of making any class appeal to the Israeli workers because they fear the workers of whatever nation, starting with their own that they are oppressing. The degeneration of capitalism on a world scale has brought on this disaster. Only by replacing it with socialism can we hope for a better future.
Israeli society is not one bloc. There is the Israeli imperialist ruling class, but there are also the workers and the poor, who suffer from the government's policies. They were fooled by bourgeois politicians into believing that this government represents them. They are angry, and they do not trust their government. We believe that at the moment, the majority of Israelis do not support the actions of their government.
In this context it would be worth mentioning an incident from today. When two reporters from Channel 10 News discussed Olmert's refusal to free Palestinian prisoners in exchange for the Israeli soldiers, they said that this policy only leads to more destruction and in fact polemicised against Olmert's reactionary policy, though of course in a half-hearted manner. The Israeli media has always been extremely reactionary - which means that if they are forced to say these things this definitely reflects popular opinion regarding this subject.
We are going to go through a very hard period. It is possible that the government for a period will be able to whip up reactionary sentiments within Israeli society. Though this war will very likely be very brutal, in the end we are certain that our analysis is correct and that the Israeli working class will, sooner or later, rise against this bourgeois regime. In Russia, just before the 1905 revolution, most Russian workers had succumbed to the chauvinist position of the regime. The same was true for most European countries during World War I, but within just a few years by the end of the war there was a revolutionary wave everywhere, with its high point being the Russian revolution. We Marxists will do all we can to alert the Israeli and Palestinian masses to the dangers of war and to the need for class unity, internationalism and socialist revolution.
No to imperialist war!
No to nationalist massacres!
For a socialist revolution and the setting up of a Socialist Federation in the Middle East!
July 12, 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See also:
Gaza: a turning point in Israel's post-1967 history by Yossi Schwartz (July 10, 2006)
Israeli ruling class - two weights and two measures by Fred Weston (July 10, 2006)
Editorial Statement: Pull troops out of Gaza now! (June 28, 2006)
Crisis over kidnapped Israeli soldier brings Israel-Palestine to the brink of war by Yossi Schwartz (June 27, 2006)
Gaza beach killings highlight need for revolutionary change by Yossi Schwartz (June 12, 2006)
Bush and Olmert endanger life on this was sent by Yossi Schwartz (May 29, 2006)
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No to mindless cutting-and-pasting!
Don’t worry Doha this time it will end for good.
Nassralla did a favor to Ulmert. Ulmert needs to prove he is a strong leader before he gives back territories.
It’s very sad that the Lebanese pay the price for Nassralla’s need for Jewish blood, but as long as Lebanon harbors that psycho they will keep on paying the price….
Alayne--
it's not really about religion. and no one is really going to be happy, in the end.
"pour se haïr, on trouve tous les prétextes."
"Many Lebanese have so much faith in the international community. My father, who's forever optimistic view of Lebanon made me fall in love with it, keeps on saying that this offensive will not take long and that someone will intervene to stop all this."
The international community will do jack, like they've been doing to Palestinians for years. You'll get used to it.
Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization, and the Lebanese government is too weak to do anything about it. Live with it. About time somoene stood up to those Israelis...thought at what cost? I'm not sure if the tradeoff is worth it.
I feel sorry for you people if you can't see through all these higher "hidden" politics.
"Live with it."
Or die with it, as is currently the case.
tell hizbala to stop attacking us we left lebanon for peace and they came to our own country !!! and toke a solider whats up with that?
they r the one who want's this war if u r realy a free contry make sure that only lebanon rules lebanon and no body else please for everybody sake you and us
feel good and i realy hope that we will get our solider back and u will have peace and good economy
Hi Lebanese neighbours,
My name is Nir, I'm Israeli. I just wanted to say I wish you well and hope you safely pass this violent period. My parents and other family live in the north of Israel, in areas being hit by Hezbollah rockets. I guess we're all in the same boat here, more or less.
I don't know much about politics and what should or shouldn't be done. I just wish for peace, for all of us.
First, I would like to say as an American, I'm very impressed by most of the posts I'm reading in the various Lebanese blogs. Your Country sounded like it could have been on a good path to a great future.
Sadly your Government made the mistake of letting a known terrorist organization run a major portion of your border security. WTF were they thinking?
At this point I think that most of the world is sick and tired of having to deal with these militant islamic fringe groups especially when they are allowed safe harbor by the local Government. The cancer isn't going to go away by itself. Israel knows that and the rest of the word is starting to wake up to that fact.
Don't expect help from the World body to stop Israel from forcibly removing Hizbullah. Rather ask for help from the World body to help remove Hizbullah from your Country. That is a common goal with Israel. If the good people of Lebanon miss this opportunity to rid their Country of this scourge then the future will indeed be bleak in the coming years.
It is indeed a shame that your Country has been once again been setback. Take this as an opportunity to do the right thing for the future of your Country and the future of your children. Get rid of the militants!
Kirk
PS. I hope you all remain safe. Peace!
"tell hizbala to stop attacking us we left lebanon for peace and they came to our own country !!! and toke a solider whats up with that?
they r the one who want's this war if u r realy a free contry make sure that only lebanon rules lebanon and no body else please for everybody sake you and us
feel good and i realy hope that we will get our solider back and u will have peace and good economy "
You are in no position to speak. I'm going to assume that you are Israeli. There is a huge double-standard going on when Israel does something and when a "terrorist organization" does something.
All of Israel's "retaliation" can be considered successful if the purpose was to kill civilians, which they have been very successful at doing.
They've been targeting civilian infrastructure...way to go! I'm sure you all feel big and proud.
So you're punishing innocent civilians...why?
Furthermore, when these "terrorists" target civilians, you piss and moan about it. When they target IDF, they piss and moan about it. Then the IDF goes on and assassinates political targets with their high-tech missiles, killing scores of civilians bystanders.
With such sophisticated equipment, I would imagine that they would be more precise with where they attack. They have a complete disregard for civilian lives.
What is Israel other than a "legal" terrorist organization? More civilinas were killed as a result of IDF attacks, then Israeli civilians getting killed as a result of "terrorist" attacks. This is the double-standard I'm talking about. When they do something, it's okay, but when others do something, they're animals.
It's like these organizations are buried to their necks in the soil...with Israelis kicking them in the head. When these organizations bite back, the Israelis tell them to Fight fair".
Good effort trying to make it seem more peaceful. The fact of the matter is that the IDF has been at it for so long, and nobody does anything about it, because the Israeli government has full support of the almighty US.
the cable tv suddenly cut in my office. same thing happened at home last night when the electricity plant was hit... anyone know if something just happened??
Yossi return to the G-d of your fathers, and HaShem will take those voices from your head.
"They've been targeting civilian infrastructure...way to go! I'm sure you all feel big and proud.
So you're punishing innocent civilians...why?
Furthermore, when these "terrorists" target civilians, you piss and moan about it."
target Infrastructure vs. tagret civilians. Therein lies the difference. You own words make clear the distinction between civilization and depravtiy.
"First, I would like to say as an American, I'm very impressed by most of the posts I'm reading in the various Lebanese blogs. Your Country sounded like it could have been on a good path to a great future.
Sadly your Government made the mistake of letting a known terrorist organization run a major portion of your border security. WTF were they thinking?
At this point I think that most of the world is sick and tired of having to deal with these militant islamic fringe groups especially when they are allowed safe harbor by the local Government. The cancer isn't going to go away by itself. Israel knows that and the rest of the word is starting to wake up to that fact.
Don't expect help from the World body to stop Israel from forcibly removing Hizbullah. Rather ask for help from the World body to help remove Hizbullah from your Country. That is a common goal with Israel. If the good people of Lebanon miss this opportunity to rid their Country of this scourge then the future will indeed be bleak in the coming years.
It is indeed a shame that your Country has been once again been setback. Take this as an opportunity to do the right thing for the future of your Country and the future of your children. Get rid of the militants!
Kirk
PS. I hope you all remain safe. Peace! "
Sadly, your view of the perfect solution is very skewed. You'd be very gullible if you think that the Lebanese government can get rid of Hizbullah.
Since we're on the topic if Israel and international intervention, where is all the talk about Palestine? Everybody seems to avoid that topic.
Like I said earlier. There is a lot more going on in the higher "hidden" politics which most people don't see, unfortunately.
"target Infrastructure vs. tagret civilians. Therein lies the difference. You own words make clear the distinction between civilization and depravtiy. "
Civilian infrastructure may be considered life support to the civilians. Also, how many "militants" have been killed VS civilians?
To anonymous above here- how can you justify blowing up a country- an airport- destroying infrastructure and making innocent people- none of which did a damn thing to Israel or your freaking soldier- if you really cared about the lives of your troops then you would not be blindly waving the flag for this latest attack- diplomacy- talk and peaceful resolutions release captured soldiers...Using overwhelming force only creates more dead soldiers...you remind me of the blinded and stupid here in the US that still support Bush even though he has murdered thousands upon thousands in Iraq for absolutely no reason at all.
"Many Lebanese have so much faith in the international community. My father, whose forever optimistic view of Lebanon is always contagious, keeps on saying that this offensive will not take long and that someone will intervene to stop all this.
But what if, just like 30 years ago, everyone turned their backs on Lebanon? We were left alone to fend for ourselves and ended up killing each other and destroying the innocense and beauty of a land...
Extreme fear mixed with streaks of optimism, but every time I go to sleep thinking that things will calm down, I only wake up to more tragic stories.
I can certainly relate to this- for years I have been waiting for the international community to remove the Bush administration and say ENOUGH here in the United States. Just look at what we have done to all the poor Iraqis.
Now Israel has invaded Lebanon- all because two soldiers were taken hostage. Why would they wage such a big offensive if they truly cared about the captured soldiers?
They don't care at all- just like Bush doesn't care about American troops. Here in the US there is speculation that this was an effort between Israel and Bush to stir up more violence in the Middle East so Bush can pre-emptively bomb Syria and Iran...we have sick people leading our world.
I hope the people of Lebanon will not make the mistake of Americans who became dumbed down and complacent. Keep fighting back and know that many here believe that this is totally criminal and wrong.
My heart breaks for all the displaced people- people in Lebanon fleeing their homes- INNOCENTS THAT NEVER HARMED ISRAEL- especially the children.
"Civilian infrastructure may be considered life support to the civilians."
If you are a fool. Airport runways - "life support", please.
"Also, how many "militants" have been killed VS civilians?"
Factors more I am sure, as in all wars. This is why they are to be avoided. This is why the Lebanese should not allow terrorists sanction within their borders.
"sanctuary" within their borders.
we'l never give u lend, we'l never give you back thos murdurers you want, we want peac but you'l have to pay the price too and say no!!! to hizbullah, no more wars. then we'l be able to seet on the same table and talk insted of killing each other, look what we'v do with the jordenians and the eagiptians, the israelis have money and they can spent it in lebanon and the oposit, u just have to be strong and say no to terror against israel other wise you wont be safe!
Just out of interest: what would our Israeli posters consider a success in this military campaign and what do they expect the long-term ramifications will be?
"what would our Israeli posters consider a success in this military campaign"
Isn't it obvoius? Return of the soldiers, stop firing rockets into Israel, and destruction of terrorist's ability to attack or invade Israel again.
It's as if a theif is in your bedroom at night and you ask and the police are called and you ask "what would you consider to be success".
"If you are a fool. Airport runways - "life support", please."
Considering that there are THOUSANDS of tourists and other people that are now trapped and caught in the middle of it, yes, the airport was one very important way out.
"Factors more I am sure, as in all wars. This is why they are to be avoided. This is why the Lebanese should not allow terrorists sanction within their borders. "
Lebanese government cannot get rid of Hizbullah. They are too weak and unstable.
"Lebanese government cannot get rid of Hizbullah. They are too weak and unstable."
and? The Israelis should then "forgive" incursions, kidnappings, and rockets.
You must fight for your own country and expel the terrorists or, sadly, reap the whirlwind.
"we'l never give u lend, we'l never give you back thos murdurers you want, we want peac but you'l have to pay the price too and say no!!! to hizbullah, no more wars. then we'l be able to seet on the same table and talk insted of killing each other, look what we'v do with the jordenians and the eagiptians, the israelis have money and they can spent it in lebanon and the oposit, u just have to be strong and say no to terror against israel other wise you wont be safe! "
You're trying to make yourself look like the nice guys, yet you start with "We'll never give you land"...how noble!
Are you forgetting where that land came from?
"and? The Israelis should then "forgive" incursions, kidnappings, and rockets.
You must fight for your own country and expel the terrorists or, sadly, reap the whirlwind. "
If they do try to expel Hizbullah, they will "reap the whirlwind" themselves and possibly end up eliminating themselves. Do they have much choice?
Don't be too upset about the runaways in the airport. So far the Hezbulah fired its 10kg warheads Katyushas at Israel and killed 2 civilians so the response was moderate.
The Hezbulah has longer range rockets with 120kg warheads in its arsenal. Such a rocket can take out a building in Haifa for instance and I'm afraid that in such a case Israel is not going to take you 20 years backwards but a 100 years backwards. Destroying all your power stations, gas storage, water facilities, communication network, industry, roads, seaports, airport etc'
I'm really sorry the bombs are hurting innocent civilians but as a country we can't deal with individuals. We are dealing with the state of Lebanon which as far as I'm concerned is responsible for killing and abducting the soldiers and firing rockets on our cities. In case you forgot what a state is due to your long civil war let me remind you: other than collecting taxes and providing services your government should have control of all the armed forces in your country and have them follow its orders.
I understand that your society is split around this question but its time to take it to the streets and demand the disarmament of Hezbulah.
My real concern is that now that Hezbulah is with it's back to the wall it will try to drag Lebanon down with it and your promising democracy is going to end much to Syria's delight. It's really your business but if you can't disarm it yourselves I believe that if your leaders will ask they will get help from the west.
So good luck and I hope you'll do the right thing and we can end this stupid war.
"They don't care at all- just like Bush doesn't care about American troops. Here in the US there is speculation that this was an effort between Israel and Bush to stir up more violence in the Middle East so Bush can pre-emptively bomb Syria and Iran...we have sick people leading our world."
You are an uneducated idiot. I'd continue, but continuing with you would only waste my time.
amazing, what an idiot...
"If they do try to expel Hizbullah, they will "reap the whirlwind" themselves and possibly end up eliminating themselves. Do they have much choice?"
I believe the "choices" are now becoming more clear. Eliminate the terrorists or someone else will do it for you.
i can't understand u lebanies. what would u think, that we will wait untill the fire wich come from your soil will end and than we will look after Nasrallah's guys.
u need to look on yourselves and to think: "how silly were we by letting the Iranians get control on our country". Haven't u suffered enough?
I hope that it will be the end of Hizballah and that both the Iranians and syrians will understand that it isn't good idea to mess with us.
I also hope that u poeple in lebanon will start to take care on your own businesses and not let your problems infiltrate to other places
First i want to say i'm sorry for civilians getting killed, on both sides.
unfortunatelly both nations were caught to a conflict because of Nasrallah.
Israel is not seeking to destroy Lebanon or to occupie Lebanon again that's for sure, we want peace in our region, but peace can take place only if we wont be attacked time and time again by the Lebanonian side, because of Nasrallah, so if we could all put our efforts together we might get the evil people out, and finnally live together.
I'm sure israel has to offer Lebanon alot more than peace, we can also bring you stability, strong economy, and freedome, on the other side Lebanonians can offer us Israelies a view to a normal democratic Arab nation, peace, and cooperation.
fortunatelly while the guns are firing, we can have a decent public opinion and show our selfs that we all just human beings seeking to live our lifes freely & peacefuly.
Dont loose your Hope!
"destruction of terrorist's ability to attack or invade Israel again."
What does that mean?
I'm really sorry for what my army is putting you through. Your beautiful country is once again paying the price of foreign intervention (Iran and Syria). I support the opperation because I feel there is no other choice - Nasrallah and his gang has to evaporate. I just hope it will end as soon as possible and that the good people of Lebanon wont have to suffer much.
Let's hope for better times, your neighbor from Tel Aviv (who wants to be a good neighbor!).
scias76@yahoo.com
I think that people in Israel could master much more sympathy for the civilian sufferings in Lebanon, if just once they heard a lebanese politician (christian, druze, sunni, whatever) say that Hizbullah is an agressor and its attack against Israel is unjustifiable. So far the strongest criticism of Hizbullah sounds like "We support your glorious fight against the israeli monsters, but please kill them outside the tourist season".
As an ignorant American, I have a question. What has Lebanon done to stop Hizbullah? Other than opposing them in the democratic process?
I realize it would be a tough thing to kick them out. I see a similar thing here in USA. Middle class and rich neighborhoods do not tolerate crime and blantant drug dealing in their neighborhoods. But it is tolerated in poor neighborhoods. Mostly because the criminal element already has a foothold and any action to get rid of it will be met with violence and bloodshed.
I'm not saying the Lebanon = poor, but the analogy works because Hizbollah does have some support in Lebanon in any action to kick them out by the majority will be met with violent resistance.
But with that said, what has been done in the past to kick them out or decrease their level of influence?
My cousin was in Lebanon for almost a year and loved it. Beautiful place with caring and loving people.
What is going on over there is more than a shame, but sometimes pain and destruction is needed before healing can occur.
I would love to see Israel and the world help rebuild Lebanon when this is over, assuming Hizbollah is greatly weakened if not removed.
Another question - for those wishing Hizbollah gone - in practical terms, what would that look like?
As an American I just want to tell both the Israeli and Lebanese people the American people have you in our prayers, and I hope the innocents caught up in this stay safe.
It is time to destroy these terrorists who create violence for their own agenda. Violence doesn't solve the problems in the region, it just makes it worse for the people the violence is claiming to help.
Once Hezbollah is destroyed, I truly hope my government provides massive monitary assistance to rebuild the infrastructure bigger and better than ever beside the Lebanese people, and help provides a lasting period of peace and prosperity between Israel and Lebanon.
funny thing
you call israel a sort of terrorist organization.
but israel never made a target of simple civilians.
its not our fault that lebanon and its people embrace terror and let the terrorist live right next door.
when isrel retaliated it was against the hesbolah but because they are such a normal part of soceity, whenever a hesbolah building was bombd civilians got hurt.
im sorry for thier deaths but if lebanon would have delt with them before, none of these actions were needed.
the double standart belongs to you lebanease civilians. how can you let terrorists live and prosper right next to your door? how can you blame hesbolah for everything? blame yourselves for shutting your eyes while your neighbors were shouting and calling for the death of innocent people just because they live in a different country and have a different nationality.
there isnt one incident in history that towns and cities in lebanon were bombd by individual organizitions inside israel.
because we wont let that happen. israel is a democracy and respects the rights of everyone to live.it would destroy any attempt or punish severely anyone who would act on his own against neighboring countries.
if lebanon is so pure and rightous why doesnt it do anything against hesbolah attacks? why wont it stop the violance that happns inside its own territory?
first blame your nation for the violance and terror it harbors, then start looking across the border for someone else to blame for this mess
Sadly, your view of the perfect solution is very skewed. You'd be very gullible if you think that the Lebanese government can get rid of Hizbullah.
I'm well aware that the Lebanese Governement is powerless to do anything by themselves. They could however take the initiative to say they need help and ask the UN to help remove Hizbullah. That act alone would show the World that Lebanon wants to join the 21st century and live in peace.
Frankly I'm not so sure that is even possible. It appears your Government is already infiltrated to the point where they are powerless to even speak out. Is that the case? If so, I worry that this situation is going to escalate and I feel sorry for all involved.
From reading the posts here, it appears that most of the civilians on both sides want the same thing: They want to go to work safely, and after work they want to have a cocktail at a local pub or see a concert without worry that some asshat is going to blow it up.
By all means though, please correct me if I'm wrong. I am genuinely interested and concerned in what is going on over there.
>>>Just out of interest: what would our Israeli posters consider a success in this military campaign and what do they expect the long-term ramifications will be?
A disarmed Hesbollah. Lebanon's southern border is an intolerable joke. It's like Somalia there.
You see, Israel is doing you people a favor by going after Hisbollah. It's doing your job for you. You should welcome the IDF with kisses and flowers for solving your internal problems for you. Yes, civilians get killed. But far more civilians would die in a civil war against Hesbollah. The IDF are your liberators. Show some appreciation.
Colman,
Judging by the cheering going on for this operation, it seems for them an all out success would be the destruction of Lebanon with around a million civilian collateral (all in self defence, of course).
The only long-term ramifications that can be expected of the current action is further weakening of the Lebanese government and a further strengthening of Hizballah. Soon, they will establish an Islamic state on the northern border of Israel and the Israelis will be wishing back the days when Lebanon was weak and divided (as a historical note, Hizballah started as a response to the Israeli invasion in 1982).
Wooohooo! Way to go, geniuses! That's where bloodthirsty disregard for others will get you.
what do you expect?
we want peace with Lebanon. we don't want your land, we want to come with VISA to Lebanon.
and you? why should you fight against us? what are the targets of Hizbulla? to destroy Israel.
Sent this Crap from your land and peace will arrive the day thereafter.
till then, you will have to suffer.
"The IDF are your liberators. Show some appreciation. "
Typical propaganda. Do you really think that one of the IDF's goals is to "liberate the Lebanese"?
I guarantee that they'll be out as soon as they get what they want, and will not do anything to help fix what they messd up.
As an Japanese/American Muslim I pray for everyones safety for both Israeli and Lebanese citizens. We are all humans and no innocent beings deserve such trauma. We were not created to fight against eachother rather to serve God and respect one another. Let God decide who is wrong or right - Let him do the punishing. Peace to all - You are all in my prayers.
The IDF are your liberators.
Hey, wait a minute! I have heard that before. The year was 1982.
As long as Israeli words and actions are in stark contradiction with each other, there will be no peace.
Israel will help lebanon to constract it self again only after we will know that No Hezbollah is threating our borders..
if israel would like to destroy lebanon it would long time ago destroy the government there and Beirut, but no.
israel is trying to force the Lebanonian government to take responsibility to it's own land, deploy it's army in the southern border and prevent Hezbollah attacks on Israel ( for no reason ) from the Lebanonian land.
you should understand it.
no one is fighting you just for fun.
believe me after almost 200 rockets hit the israeli side, we don't enjoy it.
As I write, a "rain" of Lebanese rockets hit the city of Safed - and Israel, in reply, attacked south Lebanon.
Do we, Israelis and Lebanese, have any reason for hostility? No. All the wars between Israel and Lebanon were an outcome of foreign forces, i.e. PLO, Hizbullah, Syria, provocation. And only we, Israelis, and you, Lebanese, suffer.
Only the Lebanese can turn off the fire. You have the power.
Maybe you are not, Yuval. But Olmert is as it is providing him with the excuse to prove that he is a real man, just like his boss.
We know the truth about Hizballah. You, on the other hand, have to recognize your government for what it is.
Eli,
Tell me one thing: Why doesn't your government take the fight to where the problem really is? Is it not the strongest country in the Middle East? If it cannot take on the Syrians, how do you expect the Lebanese to do it?
Since we're on the topic if Israel and international intervention, where is all the talk about Palestine? Everybody seems to avoid that topic.
Well from my point of view half way around the world, the Palestinians do not want peace. When a Palestinian shoots a rocket that kills innocent civilians, the people on the street celebrate. The murderer is a hero. In a civilized Country, the people would call the police who would then hunt down, arrest, and put on trial the murderer. (Or at least try their hardest) It is not in the Palestinian mentality to do this. Until that mentality changes, they will get very little real sympathy from the civilized world.
Lebanon on the other hand seems very different from my perspective. The general population seems to want peace but are being played by Syria and Iran.
At least that's how I see it from half way around the world.
The problem with the people of Lebanon, that we didnt see anyone who heat your goverment, you have 50 anti-Israeli terror organization but didnt have even one anti-Syria organization. Soo Israel understand from it, that you support your govermant and love it,
And I just can say that you should keep loving here, because very soon, you will have no one to love.
Olmert is not trying to prove someone that he's that he's the man..
one thing you don't understand, we're democratic nation.
and everything that is being decided and done is critisied and asked at what aim, and if the reason is not good enough, then we abort what Olmert decided!
It's a balanced system of SUpreme court with international decisions, with right and left parties opinions, with army astimations, and public opinion.
he cannot do what he want, no boddy can in democracy.
one thing you don't understand, we're democratic nation.
and everything that is being decided and done is critisied and asked at what aim, and if the reason is not good enough, then we abort what Olmert decided!
Fine. Then you are as responsible as Hizballah for this violence and for more than 60 civilian deaths in Lebanon.
>>>(as a historical note, Hizballah started as a response to the Israeli invasion in 1982).
That is true. But as a historical note, Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982 because instead of Hisbollah you had the PLO, which was doing exactly the same thing-- attacking Israel from your southern border. Apparently the Lebanese have not learned any lessons from that. Control your borders and you will no longer have reason to be invaded. In other words, act like a real country.
How can ANYONE blame Israel for this conflict and the subsequent pain being felt by the Lebanese?
Take some responsibility. Hizbollah infringed on Israeli territory, kidnapped two soldiers and killed another 8.
And now Israel has responded.
You don't want civilian deaths? Then stop allowing Hizbollah to hide among the civilians and act like the soldiers they pretend to be.
It is the act of a coward to hit your enemy and then hide behind your women and children. Whatever fault you may find with Israel, at least the one with the guns and tanks are not hiding as, or behind civilians.
Yes we are responsable for the death of 60 civilians.
and you are responsable to the fact that Lebanon is not a real country! take the control to you hands!
what's going on over there???
for years Lebanon is a prisoner of Syria and Iran and terrorists!
why don't you ask for help??
you know very well that israel is stronger than Syria but we won't attack Syria for no reason.
if you will ask israel to join forces with you in order to take responsibility to your nation we will help by all means.
but if you have a member of Hezbollah in your own government what does it say about you??
that you simply want war.
so stop being a prisoner of other nations and fight for your right!
OK, Lebanon is just at wrong place on the map. Fighting Hizbullah would anger Syria, tolerating Hizbullah leads to war with Israel. Sometimes there is no good choice.
what?
are you joking?
Hezbollah is a terror organitation. it's not an army!
Lebanon can stand again Hezbollah!
but against Syria they can't.
that's why the intire world is on the guard today in order to get Syria's influence on Lebanon out.
have you forgotten??
and as i said Syria is affraid of Israeli Army, so why don't you join the Israeli army and let it help you to defende yourself??
become an ally of Israel and not an enemy.
first you need tell youre father that he dont need waiting to the world to stop it , he needs to stop it by kicking out of lebanon the hizzbala that leads you to distruction, israel didnt attac first , remember it , it was the first attac from youre side.
I understand your anguish more than you might think. I know what I am saying might be harsh to read and I apologize in advance, but you have to understand how it feels like in Israel. Israel has also suffered buildings, and buses destroyed and too many people killed, many by Hizaballa direct support and instigation. When it happened, we did not get warned before being attacked.
Stay out of harm's way this time, keep away from where we tell you we are going to hit. We do not wish to harm a single civilian. If someone knows the Hizballa is hiding arms, launchers or anything else where they live, be wise and get the hell out of there (this is especially true in Southern Lebanon).
But be sure, we are sick and tired of the situation as it is. Sick and tired. We do not want to go through any more of this. Expecting us to keep quiet and take this crap is simply out of the question.
Just for the record, I voted for Olmert to get out of most of the West Bank, I fully supported and still support the withdrawal from Gaza, and of course the withdrawal from Southern Lebanon. But it has nothing to do with the current attack. Israel will get Hizbulla banged hard for this, for conrtoling Lebanon with intimidation and false zeal, for subdoing naiive people to their crazy ideas and robbing them of the life they can have (even and especially as Israel's neighbors). I wish we would also teach the Syrian regime a good lesson, but I don't think this would cancel the need to get rid of Hizballa separately anyway.
When this is done, I will be the first to support helping Lebanon re-build what is now being destroyed.
Wish you all well, and waiting for a new dawn on Lebanon.
This blog has been taken over by Israelis-I guess Zionist bombardment continues even in cyberspace.
We have a proverb in Lebanon: They kill the person and then attend his funeral"
We are not deceived by your crocodile tears while you support your government's disproportionate, indiscriminate, heavy-handed assault on Lebanon.
So spare us the sympathy and leave us alone.
we will not.
we are trying to explain our side.
if you know anything about democracy, and your nation is one, then you should know to listen to others.
we are here to tell you to relax, cause we are israelies know better then you the way our nation is going to respond to the recent attacks, and we try to explain that the war is not again Lebanon but against Hezbollah, and i don't remember any war in history where civilians didn't get killed it's unfortunate but true.
and instead of pure hat to us you should talk to us, if you're a true man of peace.
I, for one, appreciate the Israeli's posts. it's always better to see all sides of the story, and telling them to shut up is really silly from your part, to say the least.
thx :)
these are people like you, who can truely make us feel that someday the middle east will look different..
Some day Lebanon and Israel will share the same tourists which will make their countries flourish. Hezbollah stands in the way for this possibility. It's time to face reality.
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